CAN YOU LOSE YOUR SALVATION AND ETERNAL LIFE?

LoveGodsWord said:

CAN YOU LOSE SALVATION AND ETERNAL LIFE?

What are your thoughts?

What are your thoughts?

May God bless you as you seek him and continue in His Word.

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There were 41 verses/passages listed in the OP. However, the answer to the OP question is simply found in just 1 verse.

John 10:28 - I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish; no one will snatch them out of my hand.

We know who the "them" are, those who are given eternal life from John 5:24 - “Very truly I tell you, whoever hears my word and believes him who sent me has eternal life and will not be judged but has crossed over from death to life.

So, the "them" of 10:28 are believers. That's who receives eternal life.

And the result? "and they shall never perish".

Now, Arminians, who will argue that eternal life/salvation can be lost will claim that either 10:27 is a condition for receiving eternal life (works) or that the present tense of 5:24 for "believing" and "having" mean the person MUST CONTINUE to believe in order to continue to possess. That is wrong because the present tense only means an action "right now" for the one acting.

So, WHEN one believes, that is IN the present. And at that moment, they possess eternal life. And the result of being given eternal life is clearly stated by Jesus in 10:28.

Couldn't be said more simply.

Once given eternal life, the recipient shall never perish.

FreeGrace2 said:

There were 41 verses/passages listed in the OP. However, the answer to the OP question is simply found in just 1 verse.

John 10:28 - I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish; no one will snatch them out of my hand.

We know who the "them" are, those who are given eternal life from John 5:24 - “Very truly I tell you, whoever hears my word and believes him who sent me has eternal life and will not be judged but has crossed over from death to life.

So, the "them" of 10:28 are believers. That's who receives eternal life.

And the result? "and they shall never perish".

Now, Arminians, who will argue that eternal life/salvation can be lost will claim that either 10:27 is a condition for receiving eternal life (works) or that the present tense of 5:24 for "believing" and "having" mean the person MUST CONTINUE to believe in order to continue to possess. That is wrong because the present tense only means an action "right now" for the one acting.

So, WHEN one believes, that is IN the present. And at that moment, they possess eternal life. And the result of being given eternal life is clearly stated by Jesus in 10:28.

Couldn't be said more simply.

Once given eternal life, the recipient shall never perish.

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What if, during the tribulation, one takes the mark of the beast later on, after believing?

Guojing said:

What if, during the tribulation, one takes the mark of the beast later on, after believing?

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This is mere speculation. There is no evidence that any believer will.

And, more importantly, why try to pit Scripture against what Jesus said so very plainly? Why would any believer do that?

Jesus was clear: believers HAVE eternal life. And those who have it shall never perish.

So, it should be obvious that there will NOT be any believers who will take the mark.

HIM said:

The Context of the letter says you are wrong.

For it says there is No Inheritance in the kingdom of God for the children disobedience. Let no man deceive you. For this cause comes the wrath of God. Be not partakers with them.


Eph 5:5 For this ye know, that no whoremonger, nor unclean person, nor covetous man, who is an idolater, hath any inheritance in the kingdom of Christ and of God.
Eph 5:6 Let no man deceive you with vain words: for because of these things cometh the wrath of God upon the children of disobedience.
Eph 5:7 Be not ye therefore partakers with them.


The context of the letter proves what you assert below in this quote to be incorrect. Where did you get it from anyway? You might want to stay away, because they don't know what they are talking about Gene.

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You want context? The Ephesus culture was like San Francisco in many ways. Free sexual expression of any kind was the societal a norm until Christianity entered their domain.

Unregenerate sinners would freely mingle with this "new thing" called Christianity. Paul needed to tell them to separate themselves from their old culture. Not to listen to seducers back to the old ways.

Just the same.. Who's a harlot monger here???? You are talking about habitual unregenerate sinners vs believers who may in weakness fail and fall into sin.

You're a sinner saved by grace! That means? At weak points in your life you could fail... and still sin!



I do not like sin. I like it no more than when I see self righteousness in some believers.

Self righteousness is worse than sin. Its evil.

Guojing said:

What if, during the tribulation, one takes the mark of the beast later on, after believing?

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Some might find new meaning for the following...

LoveGodsWord said:

CAN YOU LOSE SALVATION AND ETERNAL LIFE?

What are your thoughts?

According to the scriptures, God's salvation is condtional on...

1. FAITH (believing and following God's Word) *JOHN 3:14-21 in God's word and promises *2 PETER 1:4, JOHN 3:16; JOHN 10:26-27

2. REPENTANCE FROM SIN *MATTHEW 3:2; MATTHEW 4:17; LUKE 13:3-5; ACTS 2:38; ACTS 3:19; ACTS 8:32; PROVERBS 28:9-13

3.CONFESSION OF SIN *1 JOHN 1:9; PROVERBS 28:13; JAMES 2:10-11; 1 JOHN 3:4 and

4. ACCEPTANCE OF JESUS AS OUR PERSONAL LORD AND SAVIOUR FROM SIN *JOHN 8:31-36; John 10:26-27; JOHN 10:38; JAMES 2:18-20; 16; ROMANS 6:1-23; MATTHEW 7:21-27; John 4:42

Those who follow God do not practice sin and those who continue in SIN do not know God *1 JOHN 3:9; 1 JOHN 2:1-4 and need to be BORN AGAIN with a new heart to love. If the HOLY SPIRIT cannot come and go if we depart the faith, why are we warned to not GRIEVE the HOLY SPIRIT *EPHESIANS 4:30; PSALMS 51:10-13?

We GRIEVE God's SPIRIT by SIN *GENESIS 6:5-6; PSALMS 119:158 and not BELIEVING and FOLLOWING God's WORD *PSALMS 95:10-11; HEBREWS 3:10-11; HEBREWS 3:17-19. It is ONLY those who BELIEVE and FOLLOW God's WORD to the END that will be saved *JOHN 8:31-36; MATTHEW 24:13; MARK 13:13; HEBREWS 3:13-14; HEBREWS 3:6; COLOSSIANS 1:12-14; 23; HEBREWS 10:26-27; HEBREWS 6:4-8; MATTHEW 13:18-23.

According to the scriptures if we are not CONTINUING to BELIEVE and FOLLOW God's WORD to the END we can GREIVE God's Spirit and depart from the faith *2 THESSALONIANS 2:1-3; 1 TIMOTHY 4:1.

ARE WE IN A SAVED STATE WHILE CONTINUING IN KNOWN UNREPENTANT SIN?

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For me the scriptures teach we can have the hope of eternal life today through faith but it is only those who endure temtation to the end and continue in the faith that reveive eternal life.

TITUS 1:2 In hope of eternal life, which God, that cannot lie, promised before the world began;

TITUS 3:7 That being justified by his grace, we should be made heirs according to the hope of eternal life.

COLOSSIANS 1:22-23 [22], In the body of his flesh through death, to present you holy and blameless and unreproveable in his sight: [23], If you continue in the faith grounded and settled, and be not moved away from the hope of the gospel..

TITUS 3:7 That being justified by his grace, we should be made heirs according to the hope of eternal life.

However, it is only those who ENDURE temptation to the END BELIEVING and FOLLOWING God's Word that receive eternal life.....

MATTHEW 24:13 [12], And because iniquity shall abound, the love of many shall wax cold. [13], But he that shall endure to the end, the same shall be saved.

MARK 13:13 [13], And you shall be hated of all men for my name's sake: but he that shall endure to the end, the same shall be saved.

HEBREWS 3:13-14 [13], But exhort one another daily, while it is called To day; lest any of you be hardened through the deceitfulness of sin. [14], For we are made partakers of Christ, if we hold the beginning of our confidence steadfast to the end

HEBREWS 3:6 [6], But Christ as a son over his own house; whose house are we, if we hold fast the confidence and the rejoicing of the hope firm to the end.

JAMES 1:12 [12], Blessed is the man that endures temptation: for when he is tried, he shall receive the crown of life, which the Lord has promised to them that love him.

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What are your thoughts?

May God bless you as you seek him and continue in His Word.

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How can God say you are saved? If you can end up not being saved?

Is God a dishonest used car salesman?

Salvation can not be "conditional." If it were? That would mean you become your own savior!!!!!


Its the "benefits" of salvation that are conditional.
One can lose reward and blessings for living wrongly after one is saved.

But? Still saved just the same. 1 Corinthians 3:15.

LoveGodsWord said:

Quite a lot Bruce but thank you for asking. Did you read the scriptures shared with you in context to what is being stated in the posts that the supporting scripture have been applied to in topical application to subject matter in the OP?

The context to using these scriptures is based on OP subject matter that shows that Gods salvation is conditional. For example Matthew 24:12-14 says because iniquity shall abound, the love of many shall wax cold but he that shall endure to the end, the same shall be saved and this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness to all nations; and then shall the end come. The purpose of using this scripture is to show that it is only those who endure temptation to the end that will be saved. Mark 13:13 also saying you shall be hated of all men for my name's sake: but he that shall endure to the end, the same shall be saved. Therefore, the use of these scriptures to subject matter and topical bible study is applicable to the OP which shows the Gods' salvation is conditional on us believing and following what Gods' Word says to the end. This is why James in James 1:12 says Blessed is the man that endures temptation: for when he is tried, he shall receive the crown of life, which the Lord has promised to them that love him. There is no such thing as once saved always saved as the scriptures teach we can fall away and depart the faith at any time (Hebrews 6:4-8; Hebrews 10:26-39) and it is only those who endure to the end believing and following Gods Word that receive everlasting life according to the scriptures.

Thanks for your advice. This I seek to do.

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The only OP I'm familiar with is the Orthodox Presbyterian Church, but that's probably not what you're referring to. What is it? I don't understand your question; please spell out what you're asking. I don't need to read them in context, but you need to refer to their context in order to interpret them correctly. You also might do a word study on the word "save," which has different shades of meaning in different contexts. In those passages, the people referred to will experience final salvation with resurrection bodies. Salvation begins when Christians first believe and continues until Jesus' return, when salvation will be completed with their resurrection perfection. Salvation is an ongoing process, but it's all unconditional as the result of God's astounding grace operating in their lives to produce good works (Ephesians 2:1-10).

Bruce Leiter said:

The only OP I'm familiar with is the Orthodox Presbyterian Church, but that's probably not what you're referring to. What is it? I don't understand your question; please spell out what you're asking. I don't need to read them in context, but you need to refer to their context in order to interpret them correctly. You also might do a word study on the word "save," which has different shades of meaning in different contexts. In those passages, the people referred to will experience final salvation with resurrection bodies. Salvation begins when Christians first believe and continues until Jesus' return, when salvation will be completed with their resurrection perfection. Salvation is an ongoing process, but it's all unconditional as the result of God's astounding grace operating in their lives to produce good works (Ephesians 2:1-10).

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"OP" in a forum, unless otherwise indicated, usually refers to the "Original Post," i.e. post #1 or "Original Poster." in a thread.

LoveGodsWord said:

Hello FG2, thanks for sharing your view and for joining us in the discussion here.

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Thank you very much.

For me it does not matter what one who has a particular view might call themselves it is what is written in the scriptures that we should believe and follow. For me the scriptures teach that God's salvation is conditional on believing and following what Gods' Word says and that according to the scriptures if this is true it needs to come directly from the scriptures which I believe it does. For example and if God's Word asks us to repent from our sins in Acts of the Apostles 2:38; 3:19; 8:22; 17:30; 26:20; Revelation 2:5 and we do not repent from our sins but we believe the scripture are we believing Gods' Word or not believing God's Word? By not doing what God's word asks us do we have faith in Gods' Word or not have faith in Gods' Word?

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For me, all I ask for are verses that very clearly and directly teach what is required for receiving eternal life. And I have found no verses that include anything other than faith in Jesus Christ.

James tells us in James 2:17-20; 26 that if our faith does does not lead us to doing what God's Word says it is not faith at all calling it dead and not living or saving faith.

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This assumes that a dead faith is not saving faith. But James never even mentioned saving faith. In 2:14 he says "can such faith (without works) save?" The question is "save from what, exactly?" Too many evangelicals unfortunately default to eternal salvation when they come to the word 'save'. If James was actually teaching that trusting in Jesus Christ but having no works/deeds means no salvation, then James would be in total contradiction with the rest of the Bible.

So then, what is James warning about that believers need to be saved from, if not hell in ch 2? The first 13 verses of ch 2 deals with hypocrisy, even though James doesn't use the word. And the example he gave in 2:15,16 is clearly about hypocrisy. So James is warning believers of being called hypocrites if they don't have works.

And he makes that point very clear in v.18. Unfortunately, the translators misplaced the endquote, which messes up the whole verse.

This is how the verse is usually translated:

But someone will say, “You have faith; I have deeds.” Show me your faith without deeds, and I will show you my faith by my deeds.

Notice the endquote is after the first use of "deeds". Why would the "someone" only say "you have faith; I have deeds". That doesn't make a point or anything.

So, move the endquote to the end of the whole verse. It would look like this:

But someone will say, “You have faith; I have deeds. Show me your faith without deeds, and I will show you my faith by my deeds."

Now it makes sense. The "someone" tells another person that he has faith, but the "someone" has deeds. Then the "someone" gives a challenge. He asks the other person, "show me your faith without deeds, and I will show you my faith by my deeds.".

iow, the point of v.18 is this: you CAN'T show your faith without deeds.

He also calls those that have a faith that does not lead to following what God's Word says as the same faith that the devils have as they believe in God but do not follow what God says.

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No, James doesn't use the word "faith" in v.19. Again, too many evangelicals use the so-called "faith of demons" as a contrast to "saving faith". This is false.

First, what James said was that "the demons BELIEVE that God is One". That means monotheism, which was particularly a Jewish belief. There is a difference between BELIEVING and FAITH. One can believe something on the basis of experience, which excludes faith. Such as the warning to not touch a hot stove top. Some believe that because they didn't believe their parents and burned their fingers. Some kids don't burn their fingers because they DO believe their parents. iow, they trust what their parents say.

So getting back to the scriptures you provided in John 10:28? Let's look at the context and also the Greek words used here and elsewhere to believe..

John 10:27-29
[27], My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me:
[28], And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand.
[29], My Father, which gave them me, is greater than all; and no man is able to pluck them out of my Father's hand.

"They" being used here is revealed in the context of John 10:27 as those who hear God's voice (the Word of God) and follow God's voice (the Word of God).

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Stop. There are no words in v.27 that shows a condition for receiving eternal life in v.28. v27 is a description of what "they" do. Or a statement of policy about what "they" SHOULD OR OUGHT TO DO.

If you claim v.27 provides the condition for receiving eternal life, then you are violating English grammar and good sense. It is a description ONLY.

If you want the condition for receiving eternal life, just BELIEVE what Jesus said in John 5:24 - “Very truly I tell you, whoever hears my word and believes him who sent me has eternal life and will not be judged but has crossed over from death to life."

So, those who BELIEVE have (POSSESS) eternal life. This verse teaches that one possesses eternal life the MOMENT they express saving faith.

So, the "they" in 10:28 are those who believe. Those are the ones who receive eternal life.

It is interesting if we do a study of the Greek words used in faith and believe as many of these words are present-tense, articular-participle form of the verb meaning the application is never in the past but ongoing to now and in the moment to believing continuously to the end.

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Sorry, but this is another fallacy about Greek tenses.

The present tense does NOT demand ongoing or continuous action in order for the results of the verb to continue. That is simply false.

The present tense means an action that happens right now, or currently.

So, the moment (that would be present tense when the action occurs) a person believes in Christ they HAVE (present tense) eternal life. That means the MOMENT they believe the have eternal life RIGHT NOW. That's all it means.

[QUOT]For example a similar scripture to John 10:27-29 can be found in one of the most famous scripture John 3:16 where it says "For God so loved the world that whosoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life. The Greek word here translated into English as "believes" is πιστεύω pisteúō G4100 which is to the present tense participial phrase πᾶς ὁ πιστεύων ("all who believe") meaning a continuous action of faith or believing in the present tense.[/QUOTE]
The present tense does NOT mean the action of the verb must continue in order for the result of the action to continue. That is false.

Alternatively John could have used the aorist participial phrase πᾶς ὁ πιστεύσας ("all who believed" past tense or one time act of believing) to more aptly represent a singular historical act of belief.[/QUOTE]
Well, how about that! Paul did that in his answer to the jailer's question of "what must I do to be saved?"

Paul's answer: "believe (aorist) on the Lord Jesus Christ, and you will be saved."

And Rom 10:10 uses the aorist tense for "believe".

Now why is πιστεύω pisteúō G4100 which is to the present tense participial phrase πᾶς ὁ πιστεύων ("all who believe") relavent?

Well it is very relevant because as shown earlier genuine faith or "believe" or believing (correct translation) leads to following and action of doing what God's Word says and the application here is always a continuous to believing and following what Gods' Word says.

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Two errors here. The first one is that "believing leads to following and action of doing what God's Word says".

If that were true, then there would have been NO NEED for all the commands given to believers throughout the NT epistles. Every epistle has numerous commands regarding behavior throughout the epistle. They would be irrelevant if true belief always leads to proper action. Paul told the Ephesian believers: " So I tell you this, and insist on it in the Lord, that you must no longer live as the Gentiles do, in the futility of their thinking." Eph 4:17

That's pretty strong language from Paul. He's telling the believers to STOP living like the unbelievers. If they were truly saved, and Paul certainly addressed them as believers, why would they need to be so warned? Doesn't make sense.

Second error is about the Greek present tense. Again, the action doesn't have to continue for the results to continue.

Therefore genuine saving faith according to scripture is a faith that is always present tense to believing and following what Gods' Word says.

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Nope. saving faith is when a person realizes they are a sinner, headed to hell, and TRUSTS in Jesus Christ to save him/her. Faith, believing is trust.

One more great scripture that also demonstrates what has been shared here is in the same chapter as John 3:16 in John 3:36

[36], He that believes (believing) on the Son has everlasting life: and he that believes (believing) not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God stays on him.

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This verse teaches that those who do NOT believe do not have life.

However, there are 2 verses that make very clear that condemnation is for those who NEVER have believed.

John 3:18 - Whoever believes in him is not condemned, but whoever does not believe stands condemned already because they have not believed in the name of God’s one and only Son.

2 Thess 2:12 - and so that all will be condemned who have not believed the truth but have delighted in wickedness.

The phrase "have not believed" means NEVER believed.

So, once belief, always saved. Or OBAS.

LoveGodsWord said:

@FreeGrace2

I would like to continue on a little further from the last post and demonstrate from the scriptures that God's salvation and promises are all conditional on believing and following Gods' Word in the present tense (now) and remaining faithful to the end in this post as well.

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I appreciate your concern and wanting to be helpful, but I've responded to your first post. Unless you can prove any of my points to be in error, rather than just disagreeing, then please proceed.

I do not want to be wrong any more than you do.

genez said:

Some might find new meaning for the following...

"And if your right hand causes you to sin, cut it off and throw it away.
For it is better that you lose one of your members than that your whole
body go into hell." ​

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Yes, I believe Jesus meant it literally there.

FreeGrace2 said:

This is mere speculation. There is no evidence that any believer will.

And, more importantly, why try to pit Scripture against what Jesus said so very plainly? Why would any believer do that?

Jesus was clear: believers HAVE eternal life. And those who have it shall never perish.

So, it should be obvious that there will NOT be any believers who will take the mark.

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Its not a complicated scenario.

If the Tribulation is 7 years, if one believes in Jesus in year 1, but come year 5, decided that he needs to participate in the economic system of buying and selling and thus take the mark.

You would agree that he would have not been saved in year 5.

But, according to your doctrine, was he ever saved in between year 1 and year 5?

LoveGodsWord said:

Hello FG2, thanks for sharing your view and for joining us in the discussion here.

For me it does not matter what one who has a particular view might call themselves it is what is written in the scriptures that we should believe and follow. For me the scriptures teach that God's salvation is conditional on believing and following what Gods' Word says and that according to the scriptures if this is true it needs to come directly from the scriptures which I believe it does. For example and if God's Word asks us to repent from our sins in Acts of the Apostles 2:38; 3:19; 8:22; 17:30; 26:20; Revelation 2:5 and we do not repent from our sins but we believe the scripture are we believing Gods' Word or not believing God's Word? By not doing what God's word asks us do we have faith in Gods' Word or not have faith in Gods' Word?

James tells us in James 2:17-20; 26 that if our faith does does not lead us to doing what God's Word says it is not faith at all calling it dead and not living or saving faith. He also calls those that have a faith that does not lead to following what God's Word says as the same faith that the devils have as they believe in God but do not follow what God says.

So getting back to the scriptures you provided in John 10:28? Let's look at the context and also the Greek words used here and elsewhere to believe..

John 10:27-29
[27], My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me:
[28], And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand.
[29], My Father, which gave them me, is greater than all; and no man is able to pluck them out of my Father's hand.

"They" being used here is revealed in the context of John 10:27 as those who hear God's voice (the Word of God) and follow God's voice (the Word of God). Once again even in the scripture you provide here the belief or faith here is leading to action or doing what God's Word says which is what it means to "follow" God's Word (voice). "They" to who God gives eternal life are those who hear (believing; present tense active; now) and follow Gods' Word (doing what Gods' Word says).

It is interesting if we do a study of the Greek words used in faith and believe as many of these words are present-tense, articular-participle form of the verb meaning the application is never in the past but ongoing to now and in the moment to believing continuously to the end.

For example a similar scripture to John 10:27-29 can be found in one of the most famous scripture John 3:16 where it says "For God so loved the world that whosoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life. The Greek word here translated into English as "believes" is πιστεύω pisteúō G4100 which is to the present tense participial phrase πᾶς ὁ πιστεύων ("all who believe") meaning a continuous action of faith or believing in the present tense. Alternatively John could have used the aorist participial phrase πᾶς ὁ πιστεύσας ("all who believed" past tense or one time act of believing) to more aptly represent a singular historical act of belief.

............

Now why is πιστεύω pisteúō G4100 which is to the present tense participial phrase πᾶς ὁ πιστεύων ("all who believe") relavent?

Well it is very relevant because as shown earlier genuine faith or "believe" or believing (correct translation) leads to following and action of doing what God's Word says and the application here is always a continuous to believing and following what Gods' Word says. Therefore genuine saving faith according to scripture is a faith that is always present tense to believing and following what Gods' Word says.

One more great scripture that also demonstrates what has been shared here is in the same chapter as John 3:16 in John 3:36

[36], He that believes (believing) on the Son has everlasting life: and he that believes (believing) not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God stays on him.

[36], ο πιστεύων εις τον υιόν έχει ζωήν αιώνιον ο δε απειθών τω υιώ ουκ όψεται την ζωήν αλλ' η οργή του θεού μένει επ' αυτόν

That is "He that believing on the son has everlasting life" means we all need to be believing Gods Word and following what God's Word says to have everlasting life. Those who believe but do not follow are not believing according to the Greek and the biblical definitions of living and saving faith according to James. Those that have this kind of faith according to John 3:36 in the words of Jesus do not have eternal life and the wrath of God stays on them. Therefore God's salvation and promises are conditional on believing and following what Gods' Word says if we want to have eternal life.

Hope this is helpful.

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Good point, Israel's program was always based on receiving salvation at the end of their lives. There are ways in which a Jew could be cut off from the nation Israel while he is still living, so OSAS is an alien concept to them.

Peter himself who walked with Jesus throughout the 4 Gospels, certainly did not interpret what Jesus stated in John 10:27-29 as OSAS, when he said these 2 passages

Acts 3:19-21 19 Repent ye therefore, and be converted, that your sins may be blotted out, when the times of refreshing shall come from the presence of the Lord; 20 And he shall send Jesus Christ, which before was preached unto you: 21 Whom the heaven must receive until the times of restitution of all things, which God hath spoken by the mouth of all his holy prophets since the world began.

1 Peter 1:9 Receiving the end of your faith, even the salvation of your souls.

OSAS is what God gave us in the Body of Christ, after the fall of Israel, and you can find that doctrine in Romans to Philemon.

Guojing said:

Yes, I believe Jesus meant it literally there.

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Not actually.... Jesus was speaking about child abuse.

Yet, during the Tribulation when the Mark is being issued... someone who took the mark, and later got saved? That verse may serve as having a dual purpose.

Guojing said:

Good point, Israel's program was always based on receiving salvation at the end of their lives. There are ways in which a Jew could be cut off from the nation Israel while he is still living, so OSAS is an alien concept to them.

Peter himself who walked with Jesus throughout the 4 Gospels, certainly did not interpret what Jesus stated in John 10:27-29 as OSAS, when he said these 2 passages

Acts 3:19-21 19 Repent ye therefore, and be converted, that your sins may be blotted out, when the times of refreshing shall come from the presence of the Lord; 20 And he shall send Jesus Christ, which before was preached unto you: 21 Whom the heaven must receive until the times of restitution of all things, which God hath spoken by the mouth of all his holy prophets since the world began.

1 Peter 1:9 Receiving the end of your faith, even the salvation of your souls.

OSAS is what God gave us in the Body of Christ, after the fall of Israel, and you can find that doctrine in Romans to Philemon.

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The Sadducees argued that there is no life after death, basing their argument on tradition and scripture. Were they correct?

genez said:

Not actually.... Jesus was speaking about child abuse.

Yet, during the Tribulation when the Mark is being issued... someone who took the mark, and later got saved? That verse may serve as having a dual purpose.

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Interesting, how do you see it as "child abuse" into the meaning of that passage?

bbbbbbb said:

The Sadducees argued that there is no life after death, basing their argument on tradition and scripture. Were they correct?

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Acts 3:19-21 was the Holy Spirit speaking thru Peter.

All of scripture is God-inspired and truth. You need to rightly divide the word of truth.