If you were God, why might you place the Sabbath Commandment BETWEEN 1-3 God & 5-10 Neighbour

klutedavid

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absolutely...the thing is what is the commandment that grants salvation
1 love the lord thy God
2. love thy neighbour as thyself

this is the catalogue of the 10 commandments...and

these two laws are joined by the Sabbath. Jesus is the Sabbath, he is Lord of the Sabbath.
This is my theory as to why it joins them.
Once again those two commandments cannot save, whether they are joined or not.

You need to quote the commandment that saves.
 
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klutedavid

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Sin (breaking God's law) will not save anyone either David according to the scriptures *Hebrews 10:26-31; Matthew 7:21-23. No one loves God by breaking Gods commandments. Love is not separate from Gods' law it is expressed in obedience to Gods' law and is why Jesus says on these two great commandments of love hang all the law and the prophets *Matthew 22:36-40.
Of course sin is the real problem and we were already condemned before the law was given. God had already destroyed mankind way before Exodus 20.

Which commandment saves and which commandment shows you your sin?
 
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SabbathBlessings

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Are you saying that the law still applies?

Common sense is of no value here.

Matthew 5:31-32
“It was said, ‘Whoever sends his wife away, let him give her a certificate of divorce’; but I say to you that everyone who divorces his wife, except for the reason of unchastity, makes her commit adultery; and whoever marries a divorced woman commits adultery."

Where is that commandment in the law.

Stop misleading people with Exodus 20.

What happens if you get a divorce and transgress the commandment that Jesus gave?
Stop misleading people to help them keep God’s commandments, do you really hear what you are teaching people? You are teaching lawlessness. Without law, there is no need for grace or a Savior.
 
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LoveGodsWord

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Of course sin is the real problem and we were already condemned before the law was given. God had already destroyed mankind way before Exodus 20.
Which commandment saves and which commandment shows you your sin?
You seem confused here David. Gods law does not save anyone. It only gives us the knowledge of what sin is when we break them according to the scriptures in Romans 3:20; Romans 7:7; 1 John 3:4 and James 2:10-11. Sin (breaking Gods' law or not believing and following Gods' Word) is the thing that will keep us out of God's kingdom according to the scriptures if we continue to live without repentance, confession and returning to God through faith *Hebrews 10:26-31; 1 John 1:9; 1 John 2:1-4. What is it here that you do not believe?
 
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klutedavid

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You seem confused here David.
Not so much confused as I know the commandments off by heart.
Gods law does not save anyone.
Amen to that. No one was ever saved by the works of the law.
It only gives us the knowledge of what sin is when we break them
You appear to be wrong here.

It is not the breaking of any law that grants the knowledge of sin. It is the law itself that grants the knowledge of sin, whether you have broken the law or not.
(breaking Gods' law or not believing and following Gods' Word) is the thing that will keep us out of God's kingdom
That is not true either. Everyone sins, everyone is a transgressor. If salvation was dependent on our level of obedience to the law. Then obviously no one is saved.

Unless you are claiming that you have perfect obedience?
according to the scriptures if we continue to live without repentance, confession and returning to God through faith *Hebrews 10:26-31; 1 John 1:9; 1 John 2:1-4. What is it here that you do not believe?
Your quotations do not support what you said.

1 John 2:1-4
My little children, I am writing these things to you so that you may not sin. And if anyone sins, we have an Advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous; and He Himself is the propitiation for our sins; and not for ours only, but also for those of the whole world.

See how even if we sin our sins are covered by Jesus Christ.

"and He Himself is the propitiation for our sins; and not for ours only, but also for those of the whole world."

The answer to the problem of sin was taken care of by Jesus Christ.

I win again.
 
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klutedavid

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Stop misleading people to help them keep God’s commandments, do you really hear what you are teaching people? You are teaching lawlessness. Without law, there is no need for grace or a Savior.
I teach Jesus Christ and love towards others, I have fulfilled everything the law demanded. I have the righteousness of Christ.

This is what Jesus commanded.

Matthew 5:31-32
“It was said, ‘Whoever sends his wife away, let him give her a certificate of divorce’; but I say to you that everyone who divorces his wife, except for the reason of unchastity, makes her commit adultery; and whoever marries a divorced woman commits adultery."
 
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LoveGodsWord

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Not so much confused as I know the commandments off by heart.Amen to that. No one was ever saved by the works of the law.You appear to be wrong here.
It was your application to God's law and God's grace I was referring to, not if you know Gods 10 commandments off by heart. This was already shown in the scriptures shared with you in the post you were quoting from.
It is not the breaking of any law that grants the knowledge of sin. It is the law itself that grants the knowledge of sin, whether you have broken the law or not.
Not really. According to the scriptures God's 10 commandments give us the knowledge of good (moral right doing) when obeyed and evil (moral wrong doing) when disobeyed; sin (moral wrong doing) when broken and righteousness (moral wrong doing) when obeyed *Romans 3:20; Romans 7:7; 1 John 3:4; Psalms 119:172 this is why Paul calls them Holy; just and good as they are the standard of moral right doing (good) and if broken sin (moral wrong doing. According to James if we break anyone of them including God's 4th commandment "seventh day" Sabbath we stand guilty before God of sin in James 2:10-11.
LoveGodsWord wrote: Sin (breaking Gods' law or not believing and following Gods' Word) is the thing that will keep us out of God's kingdom according to the scriptures if we continue to live without repentance, confession and returning to God through faith *Hebrews 10:26-31; 1 John 1:9; 1 John 2:1-4. What is it here that you do not believe?
Your response here...
That is not true either. Everyone sins, everyone is a transgressor. If salvation was dependent on our level of obedience to the law. Then obviously no one is saved.
Read the scriptures provided in the post you micro-quoted and left out. It is absolutely true. I added the full section of the quote and the scriptures you left out. Perhaps you did not see them.
Your response...
Unless you are claiming that you have perfect obedience? Your quotations do not support what you said. 1 John 2:1-4 My little children, I am writing these things to you so that you may not sin. And if anyone sins, we have an Advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous; and He Himself is the propitiation for our sins; and not for ours only, but also for those of the whole world
The scriptures say exactly what they say. John says in 1 John 2:1 that the reason why John is writing is that we sin not. Sin is defined also by John in 1 John 3:4 as the transgression or the breaking of God's law agreeing with Paul in Romans 3:20; Romans 7:7 and James in James 2:10-11. This is why Jesus says unless we are born again to walk in God's Spirit we cannot enter into the kingdom of heaven *John 3:3-7 because those who are born again according to John do not practice sin *1 John 3:6-9 because they have been made free to walk in God's Spirit *Galatians 5:16.
See how even if we sin our sins are covered by Jesus Christ. "and He Himself is the propitiation for our sins; and not for ours only, but also for those of the whole world." The answer to the problem of sin was taken care of by Jesus Christ.
No. Our sins are only forgiven and covered by the blood of Christ as we believe Gods' Word and follow what God's Word says. If we confess our sins and repent from them according to *1 John 1:9 and Acts of the Apostles 2:38 then we are covered by the blood of Christ. If we do not confess our sins and continue in known unrepentant sin we will die according to the scriptures *Romans 6:23; Romans 8:12 because we reject the gift of God's dear son and count the blood of the covenant an unholy thing doing despite to the Spirit of God's grace *Hebrews 10:26-31. We are not covered by the blood of Christ therefore to continue to practice known unrepentant sin.
I win again.
No one wins if we do not believe and follow God's Word and continue in a life of known unrepentant sin once God gives us a knowledge of the truth of His Word and we reject Gods' Word in order to practice sin (breaking God's commandments) *Acts of the Apostles 17:30-31; Hebrews 10:26-31; 1 John 2:3-4; Hebrews 3 and Hebrews 4:1-12.

Hope this is helpful.
 
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AdamjEdgar

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Once again those two commandments cannot save, whether they are joined or not.

You need to quote the commandment that saves.
Commandments dont save anyone. They are a moral compass by which the standard of Good and Evil is weighed.

Why do you keep pushing for salvation via a commandment?

Keeping the commandments are the fruit of our faith...not the other way around.

I am sure that if you were to really study the life of Jesus, it is very clear that he explicitly explained that the Pharisees had it all wrong...they had become so legalistic they lost sight of salvation and were in reality lost/condemned! HE was not in any way saying dont keep the law (he said give unto Caesar what is Caesars and to God what is Gods), we are to keep the commandments absolutely, but they definitely do not save us. Our efforts to earn salvation via such a pathway are nothing but filthy rags!

Isaiah 64: 6Each of us has become like something unclean, and all our righteous acts are like filthy rags; we all wither like a leaf, and our iniquities carry us away like the wind.
 
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SabbathBlessings

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I teach Jesus Christ and love towards others, I have fulfilled everything the law demanded. I have the righteousness of Christ.

This is what Jesus commanded.

Matthew 5:31-32
“It was said, ‘Whoever sends his wife away, let him give her a certificate of divorce’; but I say to you that everyone who divorces his wife, except for the reason of unchastity, makes her commit adultery; and whoever marries a divorced woman commits adultery."
My Bible has a lot more commandments....

We do not fulfill God's laws by breaking them. They are filled when we love Him and obey.
 
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Bob S

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God is not the author of confusion. Does God say its okay to murder for everyone except Jews? Or lie, or steal? If you are of Christ than you are part of God's Israel. God said keeping Sabbath is a sign between God and His people. Ezekiel 20:12. Ezekiel 20:20 Are only Jews His people?
Israelites were His chose people. The one He gave the Sabbath command. He didn't give it to anyone else.

God set the precedence for His commandments to be called My commandments in the Ten Commandments- does God have to repeat Himself for you to listen and obey?
There is no truth in that statement.

This verse is found inside God's Ten commandments
Exodus 20:6 but showing mercy to thousands, to those who love Me and keep My commandments.
He didn't say ten commandments. He gave Israel 613 commandments.

Also note who God shows mercy to. Is it to those who obey or disobey?
Would He have mercy on those who broke the commandment not to touch the Ark of the Covenant? That one must have been more important than coveting.

The same sentiment is found throughout the bible.

John 14:15 “If you love Me, keep My commandments.
John 15:10 If you keep My commandments, you will abide in My love, just as I have kept My Father’s commandments and abide in His love.
1 John 5:3 For this is the love of God, that we keep His commandments. And His commandments are not burdensome.
What was the command that Jesus gave us? 1Jn 3:19-24 will reveal what commandments Jn was referring, guess what, it wasn't the ten.

Revelations 22:14 14 Blessed are those who do His commandments, that they may have the right to the tree of life, and may enter through the gates into the city.
Which commandments?

In contrast to those outside of God's Kingdom who break His commandments

15 But outside are dogs and sorcerers and sexually immoral and murderers and idolaters, and whoever loves and practices a lie.
A reference to God's Ten commandments.
All the commands found in the Royal Law of Love. Notice the one Ellen said had a "halo" around it is never once mentioned.

Jesus directly quoted from God's Ten, do you think what Jesus tells us is important?

Mathew 19: 16 Now behold, one came and said to Him, “Good Teacher, what good thing shall I do that I may have eternal life?”

17 So He said to him, “Why do you call Me good? No one is good but One, that is, God. But if you want to enter into life, keep the commandments.”

18 He said to Him, “Which ones?”

Jesus said, “‘You shall not murder,’ ‘You shall not commit adultery,’ ‘You shall not steal,’ ‘You shall not bear false witness,’ 19 ‘Honor your father and your mother,’ and, ‘You shall love your neighbor as yourself.’ ”

Another direct reference to God's Ten commandments.
What about an eye for an eye, divorce, oaths ad love your enemies????????

By the way, all of those verses Jesus was teaching were to the Jews He came to save. Jesus taught from the Torah and all He was teaching were under Torah law. The new covenant didn't start until Calvary where Jesus ratified the new covenant with His own Blood.

I would be careful what you are teaching others here. I noticed you didn't provide scripture to back up your claims.
Where did I fail to use scripture since you "noticed"? I will be glad to rectify any place I failed to do so. See all the scripture I make red and some that I even bold. Could it be that you wrote something that is not true?

Jesus said:

Mathew 5:19 Whoever therefore breaks one of the least of these commandments, and teaches men so, shall be called least in the kingdom of heaven; but whoever does and teaches them, he shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.
Do you really believe Jesus was limiting the commandments just to the ten? Just a couple of verses down He mentions some from the oral commands God told Moses to write down. Wouldn't verse 19 mean every command God ever gave to man? Why is it your church ignores most all of the commands God ever made? I would think since the church has one foot in the old covenant that it would be teaching every command. According to verse 19 your church isn't the remnant, but just another church with some rules that make it unique and sound so important that some people fall for the bait.

I know that's not what you want, so you might want to consider re-thinking the message you are advocating that its okay to break God's laws when God asked us to keep them as an expression of our love for Him.
According to your own theory about Matt 5:19 it is you that is breaking all the commandments. Oy! friend, what does it take to convince you old covenant ritual laws are not part of the new covenant? I certainly am not breaking laws that were never ever given to anyone except the Israelites.
 
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Bob S

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My Bible has a lot more commandments....
Thanks for openly recognizing that fact. You are so fixated on the ten that I thought those were the only ones you knew about.

We do not fulfill God's laws by breaking them. They are filled when we love Him and obey.
True, now you need to know which laws God gave to Israel are binding on Christians. We know that laws, we are able to categorize as being of a ritual nature, were only given to one nation, Israel. The weekly Sabbath was one of the ritual laws made only for Israel to keep. That is a fact, so since the Sabbath law is not binding on me it is not something I am accountable. Your church is telling you an untruth.
 
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SabbathBlessings

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Thanks for openly recognizing that fact. You are so fixated on the ten that I thought those were the only ones you knew about.


True, now you need to know which laws God gave to Israel are binding on Christians. We know that laws, we are able to categorize as being of a ritual nature, were only given to one nation, Israel. The weekly Sabbath was one of the ritual laws made only for Israel to keep. That is a fact, so since the Sabbath law is not binding on me it is not something I am accountable. Your church is telling you an untruth.
Interesting, but Jesus said the Sabbath was made for man. Mark 2:27. The Sabbath day will continue to be God's chosen day of worship, for those saved on the New Earth- Isaiah 66:23. I am pretty sure people with all types of nationalities will be saved because there is not Jews or Gentiles if you are one of God's people.

I value God's commandments because God did and Jesus taught about them. Sadly, many feel like you do which is why we have a need for a Savior, so we do not have to live for eternity, in a sinful, loveless world like we are in today.
 
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klutedavid

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Interesting, but Jesus said the Sabbath was made for man. Mark 2:27. The Sabbath day will continue to be God's chosen day of worship, for those saved on the New Earth- Isaiah 66:23. I am pretty sure people with all types of nationalities will be saved because there is not Jews or Gentiles if you are one of God's people.

I value God's commandments because God did and Jesus taught about them. Sadly, many feel like you do which is why we have a need for a Savior, so we do not have to live for eternity, in a sinless, loveless world like we are in today.
I don't think the world is sinless.

The Sabbath is a rest day not a day for worship.

We worship 24/7 now.
 
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SabbathBlessings

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I don't think the world is sinless.

The Sabbath is a rest day not a day for worship.

We worship 24/7 now.
God told us the Sabbath is a day to keep holy. Exodus 20:8 “Remember the Sabbath day by keeping it holy.

I worship God every day, but still keep His seventh day holy as commanded by our Creator and Savior.

I agree we live in a very sinful world and I corrected my post.
 
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AdamjEdgar

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Israelites were His chose people. The one He gave the Sabbath command. He didn't give it to anyone else.

There is no truth in that statement.


He didn't say ten commandments. He gave Israel 613 commandments.


Would He have mercy on those who broke the commandment not to touch the Ark of the Covenant? That one must have been more important than coveting.


What was the command that Jesus gave us? 1Jn 3:19-24 will reveal what commandments Jn was referring, guess what, it wasn't the ten.


Which commandments?


All the commands found in the Royal Law of Love. Notice the one Ellen said had a "halo" around it is never once mentioned.

What about an eye for an eye, divorce, oaths ad love your enemies????????

By the way, all of those verses Jesus was teaching were to the Jews He came to save. Jesus taught from the Torah and all He was teaching were under Torah law. The new covenant didn't start until Calvary where Jesus ratified the new covenant with His own Blood.


Where did I fail to use scripture since you "noticed"? I will be glad to rectify any place I failed to do so. See all the scripture I make red and some that I even bold. Could it be that you wrote something that is not true?


Do you really believe Jesus was limiting the commandments just to the ten? Just a couple of verses down He mentions some from the oral commands God told Moses to write down. Wouldn't verse 19 mean every command God ever gave to man? Why is it your church ignores most all of the commands God ever made? I would think since the church has one foot in the old covenant that it would be teaching every command. According to verse 19 your church isn't the remnant, but just another church with some rules that make it unique and sound so important that some people fall for the bait.


According to your own theory about Matt 5:19 it is you that is breaking all the commandments. Oy! friend, what does it take to convince you old covenant ritual laws are not part of the new covenant? I certainly am not breaking laws that were never ever given to anyone except the Israelites.
An Adult lot of supposition and interpretation there Bob...if you don't mind please let the Bible speak for itself...where is that famous verse that says keep Sunday as the gentile Sabbath?
God gave the birthright to the gentiles. Do you not understand what this means?
It means everything the Jews had was now given to the Gentiles...including the law. All the stories, all of the expectations, all of the rewards...everything. a birthright is not unlike the spoils of war...you take everything. Your statement "the 10 commandments were only given to the Jews is absolutely false. Your problem is you are saying on the one hand , God didn't spell it out for them, then on the other you attempt to suppose the complete opposite without a single commandment anywhere in the Bible where God specifically said "keep my resurrection Holy and worship me on that day." There isn't even a record of the Christian role model (Jesus) worshipping on Sunday...not a single instance. Why would a Christian role model not live the very example you claim he has set?
The fact is, YOU created that belief, and are living a different life to that which he modelled to us!

Bob, Samuel said to king Saul "to obey is better than to sacrifice"

King Saul paid dearly for his mistake in not following that principle.

The first biblical reference for the seventh day of worship is Creation...not Exodus 20!
 
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Bob S

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An Adult lot of supposition and interpretation there Bob...
Hi Adam, I am beginning to wonder about you. You continue to make statements about me, but never identify anything. That is a poor way to debate my friend. I asked you to identify where I have committed all that you accuse me of doing, so I can amend my writing skills and you just ignore me. Your statements must just be your way of getting some wiggle room since you will not or cannot answer any of my questions.


if you don't mind please let the Bible speak for itself...where is that famous verse that says keep Sunday as the gentile Sabbath?
Let's get something straight. If you think that I am going to defend Sunday as being any different than any other day you have another think coming. Your question is nothing but a rabbit trail. Let's stay on the subject.

God gave the birthright to the gentiles. Do you not understand what this means?
It means everything the Jews had was now given to the Gentiles...including the law.
Now that really is a "lot of supposition and interpretation" there Adam. Where do I go to check out if what you write is the truth❓❓❓ Remember your accusing me of not using scripture to back up my statements? Well, it looks like the pot calling the kettle black.

All the stories, all of the expectations, all of the rewards...everything. a birthright is not unlike the spoils of war...you take everything. Your statement "the 10 commandments were only given to the Jews is absolutely false.
Where did I state such a thing❓❓❓So, since you are a Gentile, you are now in possession of the 613 laws that God gave Israel. Why are you NOT keeping them❓❓❓

Your problem is you are saying on the one hand , God didn't spell it out for them, then on the other you attempt to suppose the complete opposite without a single commandment anywhere in the Bible where God specifically said "keep my resurrection Holy and worship me on that day." There isn't even a record of the Christian role model (Jesus) worshipping on Sunday...not a single instance. Why would a Christian role model not live the very example you claim he has set?
The fact is, YOU created that belief, and are living a different life to that which he modelled to us!
Boy!!! you hung me without a trial. What is it that made you get so worked up with something we have not discussed❓❓❓ I am Bob and Bob has not written one word about keeping Jesus' resurrection day Holy. I DO NOT KEEP SUNDAY HOLY, SO STOP YOUR ACCUSATIONS. Israel was the nation God gave days to be made Holy. Those laws were the words of the covenant. The new covenant does not have any Holy days connected with it. You have been sold a bill of goods. Looks like they did a splendid job.

Bob, Samuel said to king Saul "to obey is better than to sacrifice"

King Saul paid dearly for his mistake in not following that principle.
I get it, you are telling me, in a nice way, that I am going to Hell because I do not worship on a day that God gave to the Israelite nation and ended at Calvary where the new covenant took the place of the old one. Nice try, but you, thankfully, are not the judge.

The first biblical reference for the seventh day of worship is Creation...not Exodus 20!
They have you hook, line, and sinker reeled in and spreading all their falsehood. Funny thing Adam you are telling me something I have never read. God didn't worship on that first seventh-day, He RESTED. And Ex 20 was not the time the Sabbath was introduced. It was introduced soon after the Israelites passing through the Red Sea.

If the Sabbath was so important as to being a salvational issue, why didn't God stop the exodus out of Egypt on the several seventh-days it took to get to safety❓❓❓

How about not ignoring all my ❓❓❓s. I even tripled my question marks, so you could not miss them.
 
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AdamjEdgar

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Bob, as I said...

When the birthright was given to the gentiles, everything contained within the birthright due to the firstborn is also given. That also included the law.
You simply do not understand the principle. I suggest you study it further.
Also, again the covenant is not the law. It never was the law and never will be the law. The law has never been what saves. Again do you not understand this principle?
The covenant those who worship on Sunday continue to tout was actually prophesied long before Jesus. He wasn't even the first one to give it...nothing new here I'm afraid.
Yes he gave a new commandment...a summary of the existing ones.

When he gave a single "new commandment".
If that replaces the 10 commandments, why then does Rev 14:12 still use "commandment'S' {plural).

That is because Rev 14:12 is talking about the 10 commandments. It also backs up my statement his new commandment catalogues (is a summary of) the existing 10 commandments.

So when we catalogue 10 commandments
1-3 =love for God
Sabbath= worship Creator/ made for man/ Jesus is Lord of Sabbath
5-10= love for your neighbour

That harmonizes perfectly with what Jesus said. You may not be able to see that but it's right in front of you nevertheless. You can complain about it all you like, but no one is interpreting anything, These are very obvious and very very simple concepts. You go to very complicated lengths in an attempt to deny these things I have not once seen a single text for the following
1. Jesus stating worship Sunday/first day of the week (there is not even a single reference for Him worshipping on that day let alone consecrating it as was done to the Sabbath at Creation.
2. Jesus pre-ordaining Sunday worship by setting up His own little church Sunday group before his death (he knew he was going to die so surely he would have done this)
Logically it is complete nonsense.

Btw history on Sunday worship...started by a group of Gentiles who were trying to distance themselves from Jews later half of the first century. They did not want the be persecuted in the way the Jews were (higher taxes being one of those persecutions)...so they changed the day they worshipped to Sunday so the Roman Emporer at the time would direct his attention elsewhere (namely at the troublesome Sabbath keeping Jews). He ended up destroying Jerusalem and the Temple to quell the uprising in A.D 70!

Sounds very familiar doesn't it...did not Jesus prophesy this

There is a good book I'm told by John Dickson called Bullies and Saints.
I'm going to try to source an online copy of it to read...I suggest it's worth your reading as well.

To answer your offtopic question about the 600 or so 'other laws' given to the Israelites...these were never placed inside the Ark. They were placed beside it on the outside and there is good reason for this.
 
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Bob S

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Bob, as I said...

When the birthright was given to the gentiles, everything contained within the birthright due to the firstborn is also given. That also included the law.
You simply do not understand the principle. I suggest you study it further.
Hi Adam, you `seem to have taken the role of tutor yet you have not given me anything to read or any reason to believe you have a true message. Why won't you share❔
 
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