JESUS and the APOSTLES OBEYED GOD'S LAW and the SABBATH!

SabbathBlessings said:

Seems pretty self-explanatory.

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Right, he meant the first five books of the bible, which includes the ten commandments.

To be honest, I'm not sure our conversations are very fruitful. You don't seem to believe any of the scriptures I provide...

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I believe all of the scriptures you provide, but we have different interpretations of them. I think the best way to resolve the differences is to look at the details.

...and it's been months of conversations. It also seems you are so caught up on a small detail, that you're missing the very big picture that has substantial scripture evidence.

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Well, I'm sure we agree that a big picture can be made up of mistaken interpretations.

You want to believe all of God's laws and the law of Moses ended, you have free will to do or think whatever you want.

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Actually I think all of God's laws are fulfilled.

But I'm happy to talk about the "moral laws" and "ceremonial laws" if that can help us understand each other.

I think it would help if I knew for sure which laws you believe are ceremonial.

I just worry that while it may get what you want out of this life, there is a whole next chapter that we are told it is beyond what we can comprehend right now. I would love to see you in heaven my friend.

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Good news! My citizenship is in heaven, just as yours is!

God's laws are made out of love and is the very character of who God is, which includes God's holy Sabbath.

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Absolutely! All of God's laws are based on his character.

Maybe one day you will see what I see from what is written in God's Word. God bless

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I think we see different "big pictures" because we are also seeing different details. That's why I think it's good to discuss the details.

But if you want to stop, that's fine, I'll just say
Peace be with you!

SabbathBlessings said:

The Sabbath (s) annual feast days, along with animal sacrifices and physical circumcision ended as Jesus as our sacrifice. Not the seventh day weekly Sabbath that is in the 4th commandment and will continue on the New Earth Isaiah 66:23.

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And regarding Church attendance on the weekly Sabbath,

is this something you believe we are still required to do?
Leviticus 23:3 Six days shall work be done: but on the seventh day is a Sabbath of solemn rest, a holy convocation; you shall do no kind of work. It is a Sabbath to the Lord in all your dwellings.

Leaf473 said:

And regarding Church attendance on the weekly Sabbath,

is this something you believe we are still required to do?
Leviticus 23:3 Six days shall work be done: but on the seventh day is a Sabbath of solemn rest, a holy convocation; you shall do no kind of work. It is a Sabbath to the Lord in all your dwellings.

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Where does it say God's 4th commandment and the day God commanded us to REMEMBER and keep holy has been abolished. Sorry Leaf, I do not see it in the verse. You can believe as you wish but there is only one Gospel and one Truth, I am going with God's Word when He told us to keep holy His Sabbath day and to hallow His Sabbath as it is a sign of His people. Ezekiel 20:20

SabbathBlessings said:

Where does it say God's 4th commandment and the day God commanded us to REMEMBER and keep holy has been abolished. Sorry Leaf, I do not see it in the verse. You can believe as you wish but there is only one Gospel and one Truth, I am going with God's Word when He told us to keep holy His Sabbath day and to hallow His Sabbath as it is a sign of His people. Ezekiel 20:20

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I don't think the verse is about abolishing or not abolishing a commandment.

I think the real practical difference in how we live out our lives for God is attending church on Saturday.

I think the idea of required Saturday attendance is based on Leviticus 23:3.

Do you believe Leviticus 23 is still required?

Leaf473 said:

Right, he meant the first five books of the bible, which includes the ten commandments.


I believe all of the scriptures you provide, but we have different interpretations of them. I think the best way to resolve the differences is to look at the details.


Well, I'm sure we agree that a big picture can be made up of mistaken interpretations.


Actually I think all of God's laws are fulfilled.

But I'm happy to talk about the "moral laws" and "ceremonial laws" if that can help us understand each other.

I think it would help if I knew for sure which laws you believe are ceremonial.


Good news! My citizenship is in heaven, just as yours is!


Absolutely! All of God's laws are based on his character.


I think we see different "big pictures" because we are also seeing different details. That's why I think it's good to discuss the details.

But if you want to stop, that's fine, I'll just say
Peace be with you!

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Yes, true we have very different interpretations. There is only one Gospel and one Truth. God's Commandments still stand. I am sorry you feel they were abolished despite what Jesus told us. Mathew 5:17-20. Mathew 19:16-18

I think we are at an impasse. Not sure what happened but a month ago you stated you believed in God's Ten Commandment and they were a requirement, now you don't. I understand, the majority of people feel the same way you do. Until God tells me His Sabbath is abolished I will continue to listen and obey. I look forward to worship God on the New Earth each Sabbath because it is such a blessing and a delight that you can have right now. Isaiah 58:13 You can believe as you wish, but it does not change that fact that God's Sabbath was from the beginning Genesis 2:2,3 and will be in the end Isaiah 66:23 and everywhere in between (read the bible). God changes not and I believe Him.

Leaf473 said:

I don't think the verse is about abolishing or not abolishing a commandment.

I think the real practical difference in how we live out our lives for God is attending church on Saturday.

I think the idea of required Saturday attendance is based on Leviticus 23:3.

Do you believe Leviticus 23 is still required?

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Are you saying you believe Leviticus 23:3 or not? You're a bit hard to follow.

SabbathBlessings said:

Yes, true we have very different interpretations. There is only one Gospel and one Truth.

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Absolutely! So, if you'd like to compare details of interpretations, please let me know.

God's Commandments still stand. I am sorry you feel they were abolished despite what Jesus told us. Mathew 5:17-20. Mathew 19:16-18

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I don't think they were abolished, nor do I think any of them ended. I believe they were fulfilled.

I think we are at an impasse. Not sure what happened but a month ago you stated you believed in God's Ten Commandment and they were a requirement, now you don't.

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That's probably why it's good to decide on words like
Requirement
Abolished
Ended
Fulfilled

I don't remember specifically what I was writing a month ago, but I don't think I said I believed *in* the ten commandments. I believe *in* Jesus.

But I believe the 10 commandments as well as the entire law are still in effect, but believers walking by the spirit are not subject to them.

I understand, the majority of people feel the same way you do. Until God tells me His Sabbath is abolished I will continue to listen and obey.

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Absolutely! And as I was saying, probably the real difference in practice between us is Sabbath day Church attendance.

I look forward to worship God on the New Earth each Sabbath because it is such a blessing and a delight that you can have right now. Isaiah 58:13 You can believe as you wish, but it does not change that fact that God's Sabbath was from the beginning Genesis 2:2,3 and will be in the end Isaiah 66:23 and everywhere in between (read the bible).

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I absolutely do read the bible.

God changes not and I believe Him.

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Me too! You are my sister in Christ!

Take care.

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Peace be with you!

SabbathBlessings said:

Are you saying you believe Leviticus 23:3 or not? You're a bit hard to follow.

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I don't believe we have to take the physical action of going to church on the Sabbath day.

As I understand it, those who believe that Sabbath day Church attendance is required today usually point to Leviticus 23:3.

Do you believe we have to physically attend church on the Sabbath Day based on Leviticus 23:3?

Leaf473 said:

Absolutely! So, if you'd like to compare details of interpretations, please let me know.


I don't think they were abolished, nor do I think any of them ended. I believe they were fulfilled.


That's probably why it's good to decide on words like
Requirement
Abolished
Ended
Fulfilled

I don't remember specifically what I was writing a month ago, but I don't think I said I believed *in* the ten commandments. I believe *in* Jesus.

But I believe the 10 commandments as well as the entire law are still in effect, but believers walking by the spirit are not subject to them.


Absolutely! And as I was saying, probably the real difference in practice between us is Sabbath day Church attendance.


I absolutely do read the bible.


Me too! You are my sister in Christ!


Peace be with you!

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If you are walking in the Spirit than you are obeying God's laws which includes the Sabbath. If you think anything different, than you are only deceiving yourself my friend.

You seem to think the Sabbath is just a day. Eve ate just an apple and look what happened.

Leaf473 said:

I don't believe we have to take the physical action of going to church on the Sabbath day.

As I understand it, those who believe that Sabbath day Church attendance is required today usually point to Leviticus 23:3.

Do you believe we have to physically attend church on the Sabbath Day based on Leviticus 23:3?

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I believe in everything we are told to do in the Bible. Do you go to church on Sunday? Maybe you can point to any scripture where God told you to worship Him on the first day or that is the day on the New Earth we will be worshipping Him.

SabbathBlessings said:

If you are walking in the Spirit than you are obeying God's laws which includes the Sabbath. If you think anything different, than you are only deceiving yourself my friend.

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If we are walking by the spirit, we are not subject to the law. I'm sure you know the passage in scripture that talks about that.

Now, how does the word "obey" relate to laws to which we are not subject?

You seem think the Sabbath is just a day.

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Actually, no day is "just a day".

Eve ate just an apple and look what happened.

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Fun fact:
I'm pretty sure the Bible doesn't say what kind of fruit it was.

SabbathBlessings said:

I believe in everything we are told to do in the Bible.

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Do you believe we are told to attend church on the Sabbath day?

If so, is that based on Leviticus 23:3?

Do you go to church on Sunday?

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Sometimes, sometimes Saturday evening.

Maybe you can point to any scripture where God told you to worship Him on the first day...

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I don't think Christians are required to attend church on the first day of the week.

Of course, we want to be in an attitude of worship at all times.

...or that is the day on the New Earth we will be worshipping Him.

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If you are referring to Isaiah 66, it also talks about gathering for the new moon festival.

I think a better translation is week to week and month to month. It's probably a Hebrew way of saying 24/7, imo.

Leaf473 said:

If we are walking by the spirit, we are not subject to the law. I'm sure you know the passage in scripture that talks about that.

Now, how does the word "obey" relate to laws to which we are not subject?


Actually, no day is "just a day".


Fun fact:
I'm pretty sure the Bible doesn't say what kind of fruit it was.

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I noticed you didn't answer my question.... but instead deflected. That's okay, we both know there is no scripture where God commanded us to keep holy the first day of the week.

Leaf473 said:

If we are walking by the spirit, we are not subject to the law. I'm sure you know the passage in scripture that talks about that.

Now, how does the word "obey" relate to laws to which we are not subject?

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I think you're mistaken. If we are walking with the Spirit, are we going to obey God, or disobey? Do you think sinning is walking in the Spirit? Hint John 14:15-18 What is sin? It is the transgression of God's laws. 1 John 4:3.
God's saint keep God's laws. I don't know about you, but I want to be one of God's saints.
Revelations 14:12 Here is the patience of the saints; here are those who keep the commandments of God and the faith of Jesus.

If we are not subject to the laws, why is this verse in the Bible and one of the last verses right before Jesus our Savior comes? I guess we should ignore the warning since we are not subject to it.

Revelations 22:15 But outside are dogs and sorcerers and sexually immoral and murderers and idolaters, and whoever loves and practices a lie.

In contrast to:
Revelations 22:14 Blessed are those who do His commandments, that they may have the right to the tree of life, and may enter through the gates into the city.

Leaf473 said:

Actually, no day is "just a day".

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You're right, God said six days are working days, but the seventh day is for us to keep holy Exodus 20:8-11 And to hallow His Sabbath day Ezekiel 20:12, Ezekiel 20:20

Leaf473 said:

Fun fact:
I'm pretty sure the Bible doesn't say what kind of fruit it was.

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Does it change the outcome?

Leaf473 said:

D


If you are referring to Isaiah 66, it also talks about gathering for the new moon festival.

I think a better translation is week to week and month to month. It's probably a Hebrew way of saying 24/7, imo.

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Maybe the passage will help


Isaiah 66:23 And it shall come to pass
That from one New Moon to another,
And from one Sabbath to another,
All flesh shall come to worship before Me,” says the Lord.

The word Festival is not in the verse you added it. But I do find it fascinating you chose to ignore
"And from one Sabbath to another, All flesh shall come to worship before Me."

Pretty consistent when God told us His Sabbath is a perpetual covenant and Jesus kept the Sabbath. If its important to God and Jesus than it's important to me.

I am off to catch some sleep. Like I said previously, I do not think we are ever going to agree on scriptures. I believe in the Sabbath and the Law and this forum is dedicated to it. You're on this forum a lot too, so something must be making you want to come back and discuss the same thing over and over again. Maybe there is a still quiet voice trying to reach you? Saying prayers and God bless.

SabbathBlessings said:

I noticed you didn't answer my question.... but instead deflected. That's okay, we both know there is no scripture where God commanded us to keep holy the first day of the week.

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I'm sad to hear you feel I deflected, I intended to answer all of your questions straight up.

But we agree, there is no scripture that tells us to keep specifically the first day holy, nor is there a passage that says we must attend church on the first day of the week.

I think you're mistaken. If we are walking with the Spirit, are we are going to obey God, or disobey? Do you think sinning is walking in the Spirit? Hint John 14:15-18 What is sin? It is the transgression of God's laws. 1 John 4:3.
God's saint keep God's laws. I don't know about you, but I want to be one of God's saints.
Revelations 14:12 Here is the patience of the saints; here are those who keep the commandments of God and the faith of Jesus.

If we are not subject to the laws, why is this verse in the Bible and one of the last verses right before Jesus our Savior comes? I guess we should ignore the warning since we are not subject to it.

Revelations 22:15 But outside are dogs and sorcerers and sexually immoral and murderers and idolaters, and whoever loves and practices a lie.

In contrast to:
Revelations 22:14 Blessed are those who do His commandments, that they may have the right to the tree of life, and may enter through the gates into the city.




You're right, God said six days are working days, but the seventh day is for us to keep holy Exodus 20:8-11 And to hallow His Sabbath day Ezekiel 20:12, Ezekiel 20:20



Does it change the outcome?

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I'm not sure how to respond to this section of your post.

We've been going back and forth pretty quickly, and sometimes when that happens, people's emotions start to get hot.

I certainly wouldn't want that to happen.

I'm not deflecting, I'm happy to answer each one of your points one at a time. But to do them all in a single post would make it really long.

Is there a particular point you would like me to start with?

But the thing is, we don't want to go in circles. As I've been saying, I bet the only real practical difference between our lifestyles is church attendance on the Sabbath day.

Is there a scripture passage that is in effect today that says we must attend church on the sabbath?

SabbathBlessings said:

Maybe the passage will help


Isaiah 66:23 And it shall come to pass
That from one New Moon to another,
And from one Sabbath to another,
All flesh shall come to worship before Me,” says the Lord.

The word Festival is not in the verse you added it.

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No, I did not add it, it's part of the word for new moon.

"1 new moon = day, time, of new moon, as religious festival"

Strong's Hebrew: 2320. חֹ֫דֶשׁ (chodesh) -- new moon, a month

But I do find it fascinating you chose to ignore
"And from one Sabbath to another, All flesh shall come to worship before Me."

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I assumed that was implied in my answer
"I think a better translation is week to week and month to month."

Isaiah 66:23 It shall happen, that from one new moon to another, and from one Sabbath to another, shall all flesh come to worship before me," says the Lord.

So you can say Sabbath to Sabbath and new moon to New Moon,
Or week to week and month to month.

But I think it should be one or the other, to be consistent.

Pretty consistent when God told us His Sabbath is a perpetual covenant and Jesus kept the Sabbath. If its important to God and Jesus than it's important to me.

I am off to catch some sleep. Like I said previously, I do not think we are ever going to agree on scriptures.

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And I agree that we probably won't agree

That's what got me to thinking that in practice, there's probably not that much difference between our lifestyles. The only difference might be the "holy convocation on the Sabbath" requirement.

I believe in the Sabbath and the Law and this forum is dedicated to it. You're on this forum a lot too, so something must be making you want to come back and discuss the same thing over and over again.

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Yes, I do feel a strong leading by the spirit to return here. My sense is that it is to help yourself and @LoveGodsWord and anyone else who happens to stop by.

Maybe there is a still quiet voice trying to reach you? Saying prayers and God bless.

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May you sleep well!

Leaf473 said:

I'm sad to hear you feel I deflected, I intended to answer all of your questions straight up.

But we agree, there is no scripture that tells us to keep specifically the first day holy, nor is there a passage that says we must attend church on the first day of the week.


I'm not sure how to respond to this section of your post.

We've been going back and forth pretty quickly, and sometimes when that happens, people's emotions start to get hot.

I certainly wouldn't want that to happen.

I'm not deflecting, I'm happy to answer each one of your points one at a time. But to do them all in a single post would make it really long.

Is there a particular point you would like me to start with?

But the thing is, we don't want to go in circles. As I've been saying, I bet the only real practical difference between our lifestyles is church attendance on the Sabbath day.

Is there a scripture passage that is in effect today that says we must attend church on the sabbath?

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I am going to guess there is more of a difference than only keeping God’s Sabbath based on our conversations. But this isn’t a small detail, it’s a Commandment of God, breaking one is like breaking them all.

I am not hot in my emotions, but I do feel we are going though the same conversations for a couple months now.

God’s commandment is to Remember the Sabbath day to keep it holy. Exodus 20:8 Attending church with other Christians and learning and worshipping God on God’s Sabbath day is a way to keep His day holy. It’s not just going to church, it’s also about studying His Word, praying, and dedicating the day to have communion with our Savior. It’s God’s special day.

You mentioned you don’t go to church on Sabbath, but do at other times. God told us the seventh day is His Sabbath and to keep it holy, but you choose to do this on a different day, do you think you’re doing God’s will or your own? The Catholic Church tells us when you go to church on Sunday you are obeying a commandment of the Catholic Church and not a commandment of God. Sounds like the exact warning Jesus told us about. Jesus warned us about worshipping in vain and keeping commandments of man vs God’s commandments. Mathew 15:3-9. Maybe something to pray about?

I thought you were going to bed? But that's okay, I always like to hear from you.

SabbathBlessings said:

I am going to guess there is more of a difference than only keeping God’s Sabbath based on our conversations.

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Certainly we don't agree on a lot of the theory.
But on a practical level, I'd be willing to bet that the only big difference would be Church attendance on Saturday being a requirement.

But this isn’t a small detail, it’s a Commandment of God, breaking one is like breaking them all.

I am not hot in my emotions, but I do feel we are going though the same conversations for a couple months now.

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I'm glad to hear you're cool!

I agree we tend to cover a lot of the same ground, but we spend most of the time talking about the theory.

I doubt if our practice of Christianity is all that different. Except of course for Sabbath day Church being required.

God’s commandment is to Remember the Sabbath day to keep it holy. Exodus 20:8 Attending church with other Christians and learning and worshipping God on God’s Sabbath day is a way to keep His day holy. It’s not just going to church, it’s also about studying His Word, praying, and dedicating the day to have communion with our Savior. It’s God’s special day.

You mentioned you don’t go to church on Sabbath,

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I didn't mean to imply that. Sometimes I go to church on the sabbath.

But I don't see it as a requirement for today in the scriptures.

...but do at other times. God told us the seventh day is His Sabbath and to keep it holy, but you choose to do this on a different day, do you think you’re doing God’s will or your own?

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I believe I am doing God's will.

Attending church on the Sabbath is certainly a good way to keep the day holy, but not by any means the only way.

The Catholic Church tells us when you go to church on Sunday you are obeying a commandment of the Catholic Church and not a commandment of God. Sounds like the exact warning Jesus told us about. Jesus warned us about worshipping in vain and keeping commandments of man vs God’s commandments. Mathew 15:3-9. Maybe something to pray about?

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Definitely pray about all things in our daily lives!

It's a good way to stay in tune with the spirit, isn't it?

So about Isaiah 66

Isaiah 66:20 They shall bring all your brothers out of all the nations for an offering to the Lord, on horses, and in chariots, and in litters, and on mules, and on dromedaries,

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Literally those animals? Or is this a clue that the passages symbolic?

...to my holy mountain Jerusalem, says the Lord,

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Not just anywhere, but a particular location: Jerusalem.

...as the children of Israel bring their offering in a clean vessel into the house of the Lord. 21 Of them also will I take for priests [and] for Levites," says the Lord.

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Wait, what? Priests and Levites? What's going on here?

Again, literal or symbolic?

22 "For as the new heavens and the new earth, which I will make, shall remain before me," says the Lord, "so your seed and your name shall remain. 23 It shall happen, that from one new moon to another, and from one Sabbath to another, shall all flesh come to worship before me," says the Lord.

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Come to worship where? From the context, Jerusalem.

Sabbaths, new moons, priests, Levites, a holy mountain...
Either God is going to restore some parts of OT worship,
Or
The passage is highly symbolic.

Leaf473 said:

So about Isaiah 66

Literally those animals? Or is this a clue that the passages symbolic?


Not just anywhere, but a particular location: Jerusalem.


Wait, what? Priests and Levites? What's going on here?

Again, literal or symbolic?


Come to worship where? From the context, Jerusalem.

Sabbaths, new moons, priests, Levites, a holy mountain...
Either God is going to restore some parts of OT worship,
Or
The passage is highly symbolic.

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It's the rebirth of the Earth after the millennium. And from one month to another and from one Sabbath to another we will come to worship the Lord.