If you were God, why might you place the Sabbath Commandment BETWEEN 1-3 God & 5-10 Neighbour

LoveGodsWord said:

As shown from the scriptures already, sin (breaking God's commandments) according to John is the difference between the children of God and the children of the devil in 1 John 3:9-10; 1 John 2:3-4; Revelation 12:17; Revelation 14:12; Revelation 22:14.

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Every time you quote the Apostle John in 1 John and leave out the end of chapter 3 in an attempt to infer he is speaking about the Sinai Covenant found in Deuteronomy 5:1-22, are you breaking the 9th commandment? Are you being a true witness to "his commandments" in the book of 1 John, which are found defined at the end of chapter 3?

Deu 5:20 Neither shalt thou bear false witness against thy neighbour.


If your relationship with God is based on you keeping the ten commandments, you are already doomed.
If you could keep the ten commandments perfectly, why did Christ have to die?


King David committed adultery, and conspired to have Uriah killed?
Was King David saved by keeping the ten commandments?

The thief on the cross beside of Christ accepted the free gift of Christ paying his sin debt.
Was the sinner saved by keeping the ten commandments?

Paul had to correct Peter in the Book of Galatians.
Was Peter saved by keeping the ten commandments?


Are the people above the children of the devil, or the children of God?
The answer reveals the true Gospel of Jesus Christ.


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BABerean2 said:

Every time you quote the Apostle John in 1 John and leave out the end of chapter 3 in an attempt to infer he is speaking about the Sinai Covenant found in Deuteronomy 5:1-22, are you breaking the 9th commandment? Are you being a true witness to "his commandments" in the book of 1 John, which are found defined at the end of chapter 3?

Deu 5:20 Neither shalt thou bear false witness against thy neighbour.


If your relationship with God is based on you keeping the ten commandments, you are already doomed.
If you could keep the ten commandments perfectly, why did Christ have to die?


King David committed adultery, and conspired to have Uriah killed?
Was King David saved by keeping the ten commandments?

The thief on the cross beside of Christ accepted the free gift of Christ paying his sin debt.
Was the sinner saved by keeping the ten commandments?

Paul had to correct Peter in the Book of Galatians.
Was Peter saved by keeping the ten commandments?


Are the people above the children of the devil, or the children of God?
The answer reveals the true Gospel of Jesus Christ.


.

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Regarding King Solomon and the thief on the cross:

We are told: If we confess our sins, He is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness. 1 John 1:9.

There is no sin greater than what God can forgive. Does this mean we are okay to sin and break God's commandments freely? 1 John1:5 This is the message which we have heard from Him and declare to you, that God is light and in Him is no darkness at all. 6 If we say that we have fellowship with Him, and walk in darkness, we lie and do not practice the truth.

What we should be doing in our daily walk with Christ is walking in the light. There is no sin in the light. Jesus said He promises a Helper so we can obey His commandments John 14:15-18

You never know when your last day on earth will be. I would not like to be the one who feels I can sin freely because I can repent and be saved and than have a fatal accident before I repent. We cannot deceive God. He knows true repentance (turning away from sin), our hearts and our every thought.

God bless.

BABerean2 said:

Your source above quotes 1 John 2:4, but ignores the end of chapter 3.
Is it really looking for the truth?

What are "his commandments" in this letter?

1Jn 2:4 He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.


1Jn 3:22 And whatsoever we ask, we receive of him, because we keep his commandments, and do those things that are pleasing in his sight.
1Jn 3:23 And this is his commandment, That we should believe on the name of his Son Jesus Christ, and love one another, as he gave us commandment.
1Jn 3:24 And he that keepeth his commandments dwelleth in him, and he in him. And hereby we know that he abideth in us, by the Spirit which he hath given us.


This is much like the old "Bait-and-Switch" strategy, often used by used car salesmen, when someone tries to switch one set of commandments in the place of another set of commandments.

Some sources talk about keeping the 4th commandment, but do they keep the 9th commandment?


What percentage of your salvation is based upon your works? _________ %

(Think about the thief on the cross beside of Christ.)

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It is you who promote the False teaching that John is rejecting God's commandments, and taught others to also reject HIS Father's Commandments.

And you do so by deceitfully twisting the Scriptures you post.

So it is clear you are convinced of your own falsehoods, but for the record, lets examine the Scripture you posted to see if your claims are true.

1 John 2:1 My little children, these things write I unto you, that ye sin not.

John defined SIN as "Transgression of the LAW".

! John 3:1 Behold, what manner of love the Father hath bestowed upon us, that we should be called the sons of God: therefore the world knoweth us not, because it knew him not.

2 Beloved, now are we the sons of God, and it doth not yet appear what we shall be: but we know that, when he shall appear, we shall be like him; (God) for we shall see him as he is.

3 And every man that hath this hope in him (God) purifieth himself, even as he is pure.

4 Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law.

So even you, EVEN YOU, must surely recognize that John is teaching us that transgression of "GOD's" LAW is Sin. This is the very milk of the Word. If you don't believe John in his definition of sin, then you don't believe John at all.

Let's Continue.

And if any man sin,(Transgress the Commandments of God) we have an advocate with the Father,(Whose Commandments we Transgressed) Jesus Christ the righteous:

Why do we need an advocate with GOD the Father? Because SIN is Transgression of the Father's Commandments. The wages of which is death. We need an advocate with GOD the Father, because we have disobeyed HIS Commandments, and HE said the soul that sins shall die.

2 And he (Jesus) is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world. (Transgression of the Commandments of God)

3 And hereby we do know that we know him, (Jesus the Advocate) if we keep his (God's) commandments.

4 He that saith, I know him, (Jesus the Advocate) and keepeth not his (God's)commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.

Jesus said the exact same thing when HE walked the earth as a man. No doubt this is where John received this teaching..

Matt. 7:22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, (They claim to know Jesus, the Advocate with the Father) have we not prophesied in thy (Jesus) name? and in thy (Jesus) name have cast out devils? and in thy (Jesus) name done many wonderful works?

23 And then will I (Jesus the Advocate with the Father) profess unto them, I never knew you(You are a Liar) depart from me, ye that work iniquity. (Transgress God the Father's Commandments)

I could go on and on but shouldn't have to. The plain Biblical Fact is that John is speaking to God's Commandments in 1 John 2. Just as Jesus referred to God's Commandments in Matt. 19:17.

17 And he said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God: but if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments.

Your unbelief in the Scriptures, doesn't make the Scriptures void. As it turns out, you are the dishonest salesman trying to peddle a different gospel.

BABerean2 said:

Every time you quote the Apostle John in 1 John and leave out the end of chapter 3 in an attempt to infer he is speaking about the Sinai Covenant found in Deuteronomy 5:1-22, are you breaking the 9th commandment? Are you being a true witness to "his commandments" in the book of 1 John, which are found defined at the end of chapter 3?

Deu 5:20 Neither shalt thou bear false witness against thy neighbour.

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18 My little children, let us not love in word, neither in tongue; but in deed and in truth.

So just calling Jesus Lord, is not sufficient for salvation. Our work's reflect who we believe.

19 And hereby we know that we are of the truth, and shall assure our hearts before him.

But we already know if we reject God's Commandments, there is "no truth in us". So repenting and "Walking in" the "Way of the Lord" is the beginning of salvation.


20 For if our heart condemn us, God is greater than our heart, and knoweth all things.

21 Beloved, if our heart condemn us not, then have we confidence toward God. (The Father whose Commandments we strive to keep)

22 And whatsoever we ask, we receive of him, (God) because we keep his (God's) commandments, and do those things that are pleasing in his (God's) sight.

So John's message in Chapter 3 is no different than his message in Chapter 2. In your religion maybe, but not in the Gospel John is teaching.

23 And this is his (God's) commandment, That we should believe on the name of his Son Jesus Christ, (The Advocate with God the Father) and love one another, as he (God the Father) gave us commandment.

24 And he that keepeth his (God's) commandments dwelleth in him, (God) and he (God)in him. And hereby we know that he (God) abideth in us, by the Spirit which he (God) hath given us.

Jesus said the exact same thing when HE walked the earth as a man.

John 14:11 Believe me that I am in the Father, and the Father in me: or else believe me for the very works' sake.

13 And whatsoever ye shall ask in my name, that will I do, that the Father may be glorified in the Son.

14 If ye shall ask any thing in my name, I will do it.

15 If ye love me, keep my (God's) commandments.

16 And I will pray the Father, and he (God the Father) shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever;

Peter also knew this truth that you deny.

Acts 5:32 And we are his witnesses of these things; and so is also the Holy Ghost, whom God hath given to them that obey him. (Keep His Commandments)

Why are you so against the Scriptures?

If your relationship with God is based on you keeping the ten commandments, you are already doomed.
If you could keep the ten commandments perfectly, why did Christ have to die?

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My relationship with God is one of a Father and a son. I Love Him and I know my Father knows better than me, therefore I listen to and follow HIS instructions. This is made possible because I believe HIS son, Jesus, is my advocate with the Father. The religious philosophy of the religions of the land I was born into, teach that God's instructions His Son walked in, are impossible to walk in and they preach against many of God's instructions. He warned me of these "Many" who come in Jesus Name.

King David committed adultery, and conspired to have Uriah killed?
Was King David saved by keeping the ten commandments?

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King David sinned, and repented, never to transgress these Commandments of God again, not even once. AS Jesus said to the woman, "Neither do I condemn you, go and transgress the Commandments of God no more"

But in your attempt to use David to justify your own Sin, you omit a very important part of the Story. Because David did this act, and gave the adversary the occasion to blaspheme God.

13 And David said unto Nathan, I have sinned against the LORD. And Nathan said unto David, The LORD also hath put away thy sin; thou shalt not die.

14 Howbeit, because by this deed thou hast given great occasion to the enemies of the LORD to blaspheme, the child also that is born unto thee shall surely die.

David lost his kingdom, he lost his son, he was humiliated before all Israel. Isn't it amazing that you use David to justify your own sin, but conveniently leave out the part of what it cost him. And here we are today, all these years later, and religious men are still using Davids deed as justification for their own sin. Just as God said they would. And you don't even have a clue.

I get goosebumps just thinking about what you have openly done here.

The thief on the cross beside of Christ accepted the free gift of Christ paying his sin debt.
Was the sinner saved by keeping the ten commandments?

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39 And one of the malefactors which were hanged railed on him, saying, If thou be Christ, save thyself and us.

40 But the other answering rebuked him, saying, Dost not thou fear God, seeing thou art in the same condemnation?

41 And we indeed justly; for we receive the due reward of our deeds: but this man hath done nothing amiss.

42 And he said unto Jesus, Lord, remember me when thou comest into thy kingdom.

This man knew Jesus, knew HE was the Messiah, knew about the Kingdom of God, and feared God. You know nothing about his life before his death. But we do know one thing for sure. This man Repented "before" he was nailed to the cross. You have nothing in which to base you claim that this man hadn't changed and "yielded himself to God". You are just using Him, as you did David, to justify your own sins. You should be ashamed, but you are not.

Paul had to correct Peter in the Book of Galatians.
Was Peter saved by keeping the ten commandments?

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Peter was corrected because Paul followed the Commandments of God.

Lev. 19:15 Ye shall do no unrighteousness in judgment: thou shalt not respect the person of the poor, nor honour the person of the mighty: but in righteousness shalt thou judge thy neighbour.

Lev. 19:17 Thou shalt not hate thy brother in thine heart: thou shalt in any wise rebuke thy neighbour, and not suffer sin upon him.

Was Peter condemned, or corrected? What would Jesus say to him? "Peter, neither do I condemn thee, go and SIN no more".

Are the people above the children of the devil, or the children of God?
The answer reveals the true Gospel of Jesus Christ.
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Every example you used to justify your religious lifestyle, repented and turned to God each time they were corrected. But not without a cost. Every time you sin, someone is hurt. Every time you preach against any of God's instructions, you place a stumbling block in front of someone. You don't understand how "Exceedingly wicked" transgressing God's Commandments are because you don't believe what is written. You will be held accountable for your deeds because you have been told, but you refuse to believe.

Rom. 7:12 Wherefore the law is holy, and the commandment holy, and just, and good.

13 Was then that which is good made death unto me? God forbid.(that means no) But sin, that it might appear sin, working death in me by that which is good; that sin by the commandment might become exceeding sinful.

Transgressing God's Commandments is so wicked, so evil, that God sent HIS only Son to teach you not to sin, knowing beforehand that the mainstream religions of the land HE was born into, would torture and murder Him.

You are free to mock God and His instructions, but not me. I am just hoping HE will hide me in the day of the Lord's Wrath because of sin.

Soyeong said:

In Exodus 20:6, God wanted His people to love Him and obey His commandment, so the proceeding commandments are directly connected to what it means to love God.

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What and how the Israelites felt about the ten commandments as to whether they loved to do God's will or whether they kept those laws out of fear does not indicate the ten were about love. The commands their selves were not love commands. Thou shalt not does not indicate love. Love commands were given to the people of Israel in Leviticus and Deuteronomy.

Bob S said:

What and how the Israelites felt about the ten commandments as to whether they loved to do God's will or whether they kept those laws out of fear does not indicate the ten were about love. The commands their selves were not love commands. Thou shalt not does not indicate love. Love commands were given to the people of Israel in Leviticus and Deuteronomy.

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You're argument is with God, because God Himself spoke these words: Exodus 20:6 but showing mercy to thousands, to those who love Me and keep My commandments.

Also, note who God's shows mercy to- those who love Me and keep My commandments.

Studyman said:

This man knew Jesus, knew HE was the Messiah, knew about the Kingdom of God, and feared God. You know nothing about his life before his death. But we do know one thing for sure. This man Repented "before" he was nailed to the cross. You have nothing in which to base you claim that this man hadn't changed and "yielded himself to God". You are just using Him, as you did David, to justify your own sins. You should be ashamed, but you are not.

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Does King David's example destroy Adventism?

I am ashamed of my sin, and have repented of that sin, and have trusted Christ as my sacrifice for sin.

How about you?

Do you think you can save yourself by keeping the ten commandments perfectly?

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What percentage of your salvation comes from your own works? __________ %

Answer this question and you will understand your ability to judge me.


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Gal 3:1 O foolish Galatians, who hath bewitched you, that ye should not obey the truth, before whose eyes Jesus Christ hath been evidently set forth, crucified among you?
Gal 3:2 This only would I learn of you, Received ye the Spirit by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith?

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BABerean2 said:

Does King David's example destroy Adventism?

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It destroys your religious philosophy, and exposes your disdain for the God of the Bible.

I'm not an "adventist", and although I have issues with their religious business, I have yet to see an adventist use David as an excuse to transgress God's Commandment, any of them, as you just did.

I am ashamed of my sin, and have repented of that sin, and have trusted Christ as my sacrifice for sin.

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If you reject God's Commandments, then you don't know what sin is. Your "sin" then becomes any transgression of the religious doctrines and traditions of the religious philosophy you have adopted. The Sabbath is just one of God's Commandments that modern religions pollute. There are others.

How about you?

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I trust that Jesus, after repentance, (Change) didn't condemn me for my past transgressions. But HE said to "go and Transgress God's Commandments no more". He told you to do the same thing. But you don't believe Him.

Do you think you can save yourself by keeping the ten commandments perfectly?

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James 4:7 Submit yourselves therefore to God. Resist the devil, and he will flee from you. 8 Draw nigh to God, (First) and he will draw nigh to you. Cleanse your hands, ye sinners; and purify your hearts, ye double minded.

Luke 9:23 And he said to them all, If any man will come after me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross daily, and follow me.

Matt. 19: 17 And he said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God: but if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments.

Rom. 6:16 Know ye not, that to whom ye yield yourselves servants to obey, his servants ye are to whom ye obey; whether of sin unto death, or of obedience unto righteousness?

Because the Jesus of the Bible is my Savior, I listen to HIM, and I Believe HIM, and I "Follow" His instruction. There are others who call HIM Lord, Lord, who doesn't follow HIS instructions. HE said don't be like them.

Matt. 6:1 Take heed that ye do not your alms before men, to be seen of them: otherwise ye have no reward of your Father which is in heaven.

2 Therefore when thou doest thine alms, do not sound a trumpet before thee, as the hypocrites do in the synagogues and in the streets, that they may have glory of men. Verily I say unto you, They have their reward.

5 And when thou prayest, thou shalt not be as the hypocrites are: for they love to pray standing in the synagogues and in the corners of the streets, that they may be seen of men. Verily I say unto you, They have their reward.

6 But thou, when thou prayest, enter into thy closet, and when thou hast shut thy door, pray to thy Father which is in secret; and thy Father which seeth in secret shall reward thee openly.

What percentage of your salvation comes from your own works? __________ %

Answer this question and you will understand your ability to judge me.

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Don't think that I will accuse you to the Father, it is not my words that expose your religious philosophy, it is the Word's of the Christ, in whom you trust. If you believed His Word's, you would understand mine.

Gal 3:1 O foolish Galatians, who hath bewitched you, that ye should not obey the truth, before whose eyes Jesus Christ hath been evidently set forth, crucified among you?
Gal 3:2 This only would I learn of you, Received ye the Spirit by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith?
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Paul is speaking of the Mainstream Preachers of his time who were still preaching the Atonement Works of the Law of the "Order of Aaron".

They were still were promoting the sacrificial "Works of the Law" of the Atonement Covenant God made with Levi, because they didn't believe Jesus was their New High Priest after the Order of Melchizedek.

The religious philosophy that you are promoting here, that teaches the Pharisees, who Jesus called "Children of the Devil" was trying to get the Galatians to Love God and Love one another, as the Law of God teaches, is absurd.

And Yet, you still preach it even after you have been shown your error. Like the choice of "Denying yourself", that Jesus instructed, you also have the choice to "deny the scriptures" as the "other voice" in the Garden instructs.

I am simply suggesting that if you call Jesus Lord, you should also be a "doer" of His instruction, not a hearer only.

"What percentage of your salvation comes from your own works? __________ %"

Luke 13:3 I tell you, Nay: but, except ye repent, ye shall all likewise perish.

Unless I Repent and submit myself to God, there is 0% Salvation. At least according to the Christ of the Bible.

Studyman said:

Because the Jesus of the Bible is my Savior, I listen to HIM, and I Believe HIM, and I "Follow" His instruction.

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Then you understand there are two different sets of instructions in the words of Christ found below.

Joh 15:10 If ye keep my commandments, ye shall abide in my love; even as I have kept my Father's commandments, and abide in his love.



Why did Christ quote from the Old Covenant in Matthew chapter 5 and then add, "But I say...", if the New Covenant instructions are exactly the same?


Mat 5:27 "You have heard that it was said to those of old, 'YOU SHALL NOT COMMIT ADULTERY.'
Mat 5:28 But I say to you that whoever looks at a woman to lust for her has already committed adultery with her in his heart.


Does Paul confirm the relationship between the Old Covenant and the New below?

2Co 3:6 who also made us sufficient as ministers of the new covenant, not of the letter but of the Spirit; for the letter kills, but the Spirit gives life.
2Co 3:7 But if the ministry of death, written and engraved on stones, was glorious, so that the children of Israel could not look steadily at the face of Moses because of the glory of his countenance, which glory was passing away,
2Co 3:8 how will the ministry of the Spirit not be more glorious?


For this reason the Apostle Paul told the Galatian believers to "cast out" the Sinai Covenant of "bondage" in Galatians 4:24-31.

However, some people cannot let it go. Like the Pharisees who accused Christ in John 5:1-17, they often accuse others of not properly keeping the commandments.
How many of those commenting here would have joined in with the Pharisees accusations on that day, who also claimed they kept the commandments?

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BABerean2 said:

Then you understand there are two different sets of instructions in the words of Christ found below.

Joh 15:10 If ye keep my commandments, ye shall abide in my love; even as I have kept my Father's commandments, and abide in his love.
[QUOTE

Of course Jesus had different Commandments than you and I.

John 17: 4 I have glorified thee on the earth: I have finished the work which thou gavest me to do. 5 And now, O Father, glorify thou me with thine own self with the glory which I had with thee before the world was.

Were you sent to SAVE the Lost Children of Israel? Did God send you to create all that is Created? What is the "Cup" God gave you?

Of course, you will just ignore the question, and the foolishness of your statement, and move on to another, and then another. Each time ignoring the scriptures which correct you.

[QUOTE
Why did Christ quote from the Old Covenant in Matthew chapter 5 and then add, "But I say...", if the New Covenant instructions are exactly the same?


Mat 5:27 "You have heard that it was said to those of old, 'YOU SHALL NOT COMMIT ADULTERY.'
Mat 5:28 But I say to you that whoever looks at a woman to lust for her has already committed adultery with her in his heart.

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Jesus was "quoting" the "them of old time" that HE told both you and I, "Omitted the weightier matter of the Law".

Matt. 5:19 Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.

20 For I say unto you, That except your righteousness shall exceed the righteousness of the scribes and Pharisees, ye shall in no case enter into the kingdom of heaven.

21 Ye have heard that it was said by them of old time, Thou shalt not kill; and whosoever shall kill shall be in danger of the judgment:

22 But I say unto you, That whosoever is angry with his brother without a cause shall be in danger of the judgment: and whosoever shall say to his brother, Raca, shall be in danger of the council: but whosoever shall say, Thou fool, shall be in danger of hell fire.

In the Law that God sent the Christ to create, it is written "Thou shall not Kill", but it is also written; "17 Thou shalt not hate thy brother in thine heart: thou shalt in any wise rebuke thy neighbour, and not suffer sin upon him.

18 Thou shalt not avenge, nor bear any grudge against the children of thy people, but thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself: I am the LORD.

The "Them of old time" taught part of God's Law, but "omitted the weightier matters", just as Jesus said.

Matt. 23:23 Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye pay tithe of mint and anise and cummin, and have omitted the weightier matters of the law, judgment, mercy, and faith: these ought ye to have done, and not to leave the other undone.

It was the same thing with Adultery. The "Them of Old Time" taught, "Thou Shall not commit Adultery", but God also taught;

Prov. 6:24 To keep thee from the evil woman, from the flattery of the tongue of a strange woman. 25 Lust not after her beauty in thine heart; neither let her take thee with her eyelids.

And the story of David that you use to justify your sin, that story, inspired by the Christ Himself, is also a lesson in lusting after a woman that is not yours, in your heart.

All the examples Jesus used in Matt. 5., exposed the "righteousness of the Pharisees". We find that the Christ not only created and taught the Law they taught, but also created and taught the LAW they rejected.

The same can be said about mainstream religions today. I'll paraphrase.

You have heard it said by the Mainstream Preachers of this world "Thou shall love thy neighbor as thyself", But Jesus also taught, "The Sabbath is made for man". So unless your righteousness exceeds the righteousness of the mainstream preachers of this world, "ye shall in no case enter into the kingdom of heaven."

satan teaches that the "Them of old time" is Moses and God. This one deception of many taught by the religions of the land we born in.

Of course, you will ignore all this, and the Scriptures, and simply move to another verse you can butcher to justify your religious philosophy. What would really be great, is to actually have an honest, unbiased examination of what the Scriptures actually say. But that would expose modern religions, just as it exposed the "them of old time", so I doubt you believe enough to discuss them.

Does Paul confirm the relationship between the Old Covenant and the New below?

2Co 3:6 who also made us sufficient as ministers of the new covenant, not of the letter but of the Spirit; for the letter kills, but the Spirit gives life.
2Co 3:7 But if the ministry of death, written and engraved on stones, was glorious, so that the children of Israel could not look steadily at the face of Moses because of the glory of his countenance, which glory was passing away,
2Co 3:8 how will the ministry of the Spirit not be more glorious?

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The old Priesthood, "Order of Aaron" is replaced by the New Priesthood "Order of Melchizedek". The old ministry, which was glorious, required the death of animals to atone for the sins of men. The New Ministry, which is more glorious, requires Faith/Belief in the Christ for atonement.

For the "Letter Kills"; "And he shall bring the bullock unto the door of the tabernacle of the congregation before the LORD; and shall lay his hand upon the bullock's head, and kill the bullock before the LORD."

But the Spirit gives life; "But this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, saith the LORD, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people.

34 And they shall teach no more every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the LORD: for they shall all know me, from the least of them unto the greatest of them, saith the LORD: for I will forgive their iniquity, and I will remember their sin no more.
A New Covenant, as New Ministry in which we no longer are bound to the Levite Priest for the administration of God's Laws, and for the Atonement of sins.

satan teaches that it wasn't the ministry that changed, but God's definition of Sin. Woe to the man that teaches to break even the least of God's commandments, as Jesus said in the Chapter you are now using to justify your religion.

For this reason the Apostle Paul told the Galatian believers to "cast out" the Sinai Covenant of "bondage" in Galatians 4:24-31.

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The Sinai Covenant that was "Cast out" was the ministry/Priesthood Covenant God made with Levi on Israel's behalf.

satan teaches God "Cast out" His own Laws. But for those who believe in Him, we know HE doesn't "cast out" His Laws, HE writes them on the hearts of HIS People. What was "Cast out" was the "Order of Aaron", replaced with the "Order of Melchizedek".

This is how a man knows which spirit dwell in him. If he keeps God's Commandments, it is God's Spirit. If a man calls Jesus Lord, but rejects God's Commandments, he is a liar. So simple even a child could understand.

However, some people cannot let it go. Like the Pharisees who accused Christ in John 5:1-17, they often accuse others of not properly keeping the commandments.
How many of those commenting here would have joined in with the Pharisees accusations on that day, who also claimed they kept the commandments?

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Luke 1:5 There was in the days of Herod, the king of Judaea, a certain priest named Zacharias, of the course of Abia: and his wife was of the daughters of Aaron, and her name was Elisabeth.6 And they were both righteous before God, walking in all the commandments and ordinances of the Lord blameless.

Jesus wasn't condemned and murdered by those who submitted themselves to the Father, like Zacharias, Simeon, Anna, and the Wise men, HE was condemned by religious men who claimed His Father as their God, but taught for doctrines the commandments of men, and transgressed the Commandments of God by their own religious traditions.

You are here to defend your religious traditions, not examine what the scriptures actually say. While i am longing for an honest examination of these Scriptures because Jesus warned of "many" deceivers.

This is the foundation of our disagreement.

Studyman said:

The Sinai Covenant that was "Cast out" was the ministry/Priesthood Covenant God made with Levi on Israel's behalf.

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If you were correct, Paul would not have made reference to "the two covenants" in Galatians 4:24-31.

Paul never mentioned the "priesthood" or "Levi" in the passage, and therefore you are adding to the word of God to make your doctrine work.

Any unbiased witness can read Galatians 4:24-31 and see what Paul actually said.

Paul's words in the passage are confirmed in Galatians 3:16-29, where Paul said the law was "added" 430 years "after" the promise made to Abraham "until" the seed (Christ) could come to whom the promise was made. This agrees with Deuteronomy 5:3, and reveals the temporary nature of the Sinai Covenant.

Your claim that I am bringing up King David to justify my own sin, reveals the weakness of your doctrine.
It is a Bible fact that King David committed adultery and conspired to have Uriah killed. It was David's sin, instead of mine.

At one point in the Gospels Peter had walked on water for a short period of time, but Paul still had to correct him in the Book of Galatians.
Why do many today try to ignore Peter's error? Is it for the same reason many try to ignore the Book of Galatians?


The "deceivers" are found below.

Act 15:24 Forasmuch as we have heard, that certain which went out from us have troubled you with words, subverting your souls, saying, Ye must be circumcised, and keep the law: to whom we gave no such commandment:


These are the deceivers that "bewitched" the Galatians in Galatians 3:1-2.


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BABerean2 said:

If you were correct, Paul would not have made reference to "the two covenants" in Galatians 4:24-31.

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There were two Covenants. God's Covenant with Abraham that HE gave to Abraham's Children, that they broke building the Golden Calf.

Ex. 2:24 And God heard their groaning, and God remembered his covenant with Abraham, with Isaac, and with Jacob.

And the Covenant with Levi to provide atonement, that God "ADDED" because of transgressions.

Ex. 32:30 And it came to pass on the morrow, that Moses said unto the people, Ye have sinned a great sin: and now I will go up unto the LORD; peradventure I shall make an atonement for your sin.
You refusal to believe the scriptures do not make them void.

Paul never mentioned the "priesthood" or "Levi" in the passage, and therefore you are adding to the word of God to make your doctrine work.

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Paul speaks to the "works of the Law" for justification. Your willful ignorance as to what what those "LAWS" are, doesn't make the Scriptures a lie.

Any unbiased witness can read Galatians 4:24-31 and see what Paul actually said.

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Galatians does not make void Jesus' Words, or the God of the Bible, You are twisting Paul's Words to justify your religion. To do that, you must separate Galatians, from the rest of Paul's Words. It is deceitful, just as your rendition of Matt. 5 is deceitful. But you will not be corrected, not even by the Scriptures themselves. Just as the mainstream preachers of Jesus time would not be corrected.

Paul's words in the passage are confirmed in Galatians 3:16-29, where Paul said the law was "added" 430 years "after" the promise made to Abraham "until" the seed (Christ) could come to whom the promise was made.

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Abraham had God's Commandments, Laws, and Statutes..

Gen. 26:5 Because that Abraham obeyed my voice, and kept my charge, my commandments, my statutes, and my laws.

But he didn't have the Atonement Laws given to Levi, that were "ADDED" because of Transgressions. I have asked you this before but you are too arrogant to answer. What was transgressed which caused God to "ADD" Law? And what was this ADDED LAW ADDED to?

Jer. 7:22 For I spake not unto your fathers, nor commanded them in the day that I brought them out of the land of Egypt, concerning burnt offerings or sacrifices:

23 But this thing commanded I them, saying, Obey my voice, and I will be your God, and ye shall be my people: and walk ye in all the ways that I have commanded you, that it may be well unto you.

God didn't "ADD" the Atonement Laws until after Israel broke God's Covenant of Abraham.

Gen. 18:18 Seeing that Abraham shall surely become a great and mighty nation, and all the nations of the earth shall be blessed in him?

19 For I know him, that he will command his children and his household after him, and they shall keep the way of the LORD, to do justice and judgment; that the LORD may bring upon Abraham that which he hath spoken of him.

You disbelief in the Scriptures don't make them void. And your refusal to even acknowledge them, aligns you with the Pharisees, not Jesus.

This agrees with Deuteronomy 5:3, and reveals the temporary nature of the Sinai Covenant.

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The Covenant of Abraham is not temporary. The Covenant with Levi, that was ADDED 430 later, was. That is, the Law of Atonement, which included Sacrificial "Works" for forgiveness of sin, was not added until 430 years after Abraham obeyed God's Laws, Commandments, and Statutes. Those alive in Duet. 5, were alive because of this "ADDED" Law of atonement, which was given to Levi, Till the Seed should come who would usher in a New ministry, a New Priesthood.

Your religious philosophy which rejects these truths, doesn't make them void.

Your claim that I am bringing up King David to justify my own sin, reveals the weakness of your doctrine.
It is a Bible fact that King David committed adultery and conspired to have Uriah killed. It was David's sin, instead of mine.

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You reject God's commandments, and you use David as your excuse. But you "omit" the part of what it cost him, because you believe your sins cost you nothing.

And not only that, God doesn't judge David as a murderer, you do, mainstream religions of this world do, but God doesn't. You still Judge him as a sinner, and then you use his sin as justification for your rejection of God's Commandments. Just as God said you would. You can deny it, but your words were written, so you can't hide from them.

At one point in the Gospels Peter had walked on water for a short period of time, but Paul still had to correct him in the Book of Galatians.

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Paul was following the Law of the Christ.

Lev. 19:15 Ye shall do no unrighteousness in judgment: thou shalt not respect the person of the poor, nor honour the person of the mighty: but in righteousness shalt thou judge thy neighbour.

17 Thou shalt not hate thy brother in thine heart: thou shalt in any wise rebuke thy neighbour, and not suffer sin upon him.

Paul was a true brother.

James 5:19 Brethren, if any of you do err from the truth, and one convert him;

20 Let him know, that he which converteth the sinner from the error of his way shall save a soul from death, and shall hide a multitude of sins.

Will you acknowledge these Holy Scriptures, and engage in an honest examination? No, so far you have refused.

Why do many today try to ignore Peter's error? Is it for the same reason many try to ignore the Book of Galatians?

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You are the one who is ignoring the Word's of God here. Galatians is just one Book in the holy Scriptures. You have separated it from God's Word, and have now created your own religion, much in the same way the Pharisees created a religion based on their version of the Atonement Laws "ADDED" 430 years after Abraham obeyed.

The "deceivers" are found below.

Act 15:24 Forasmuch as we have heard, that certain which went out from us have troubled you with words, subverting your souls, saying, Ye must be circumcised, and keep the law: to whom we gave no such commandment:

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Yes, these are the deceivers. That is why Peter and James kept the New Converts away from them, and directed them straight to the Law of Moses.

Exactly what Jesus did for His Disciples.

Matt. 23:1 Then spake Jesus to the multitude, and to his disciples,

2 Saying, The scribes and the Pharisees sit in Moses' seat:

3 All therefore whatsoever they bid you observe, that observe and do; but do not ye after their works: for they say, and do not.

4 For they (Pharisees, Not God as you falsely preach) bind heavy burdens and grievous to be borne, and lay them on men's shoulders; but they themselves will not move them with one of their fingers.

Will you acknowledge these Scriptures, examine them in an honest manner? I doubt it, you don't believe them.

LoveGodsWord said: ↑ As shown from the scriptures already, sin (breaking God's commandments) according to John is the difference between the children of God and the children of the devil in 1 John 3:9-10; 1 John 2:3-4; Revelation 12:17; Revelation 14:12; Revelation 22:14.

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Your response here...

BABerean2 said:

Every time you quote the Apostle John in 1 John and leave out the end of chapter 3 in an attempt to infer he is speaking about the Sinai Covenant found in Deuteronomy 5:1-22, are you breaking the 9th commandment? Are you being a true witness to "his commandments" in the book of 1 John, which are found defined at the end of chapter 3?

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We are in the new covenant now not the old covenant. The New covenant is the law written on the heart through faith that works by love as shown in Hebrews 8:10-12 from Jeremiah 31:31-34; Ezekiel 36:24-27; 1 John 5:2-4; 1 John 1:9. Love according to the scriptures is not separate from Gods' law is it expressed in obedience to Gods' law. This is why the new covenant promise that God made to His people in Jeremiah says "I will put my laws into their mind, and write them in their hearts: and I will be to them a God, and they shall be to me a people" and in Ezekiel "I sprinkle clean water on you, and you shall be clean: from all your filthiness, and from all your idols, will I cleanse you. A new heart also will I give you, and a new spirit will I put within you: and I will take away the stony heart out of your flesh, and I will give you an heart of flesh and I will put my spirit within you, and cause you to walk in my statutes, and you shall keep my judgments, and do them." A detailed scripture response has all ready been provided to you that you simply choose to ignore but I will provide the linked posts here, here, here, here, here, and partially in this thread here linked as a witness that your teachings of lawlessness (without law) are not biblical.

BABerean2 said:

Deu 5:20 Neither shalt thou bear false witness against thy neighbour. If your relationship with God is based on you keeping the ten commandments, you are already doomed.

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According to the scriptures and has been posted to you many times already that you should already know if you have read the posts shared with you here, no one here believes they are saved or get their righteousness by keeping the law. So your question here is simply being dishonest and implying things no one believes even after you have been told exactly what we believe in this regard. So to imply we believe things that we do not believe after you have been told directly what we believe is not being truthful. As posted to you many times already I believe according to the scriptures, we are saved it is the FRUIT of faith of one that is already been given Gods promise of salvation and the fruit of God's work in us *Philippians 2:13 as we believe and follow his word *John 10:26-27. If our faith has no fruit it is dead *James 2:18-20; 26 and our tree will be cast down and thrown into the fire *Matthew 3:10; 7:19-20; 13:49-50; Hebrews 10:26-27. Therefore we do not abolish God's law through faith like some people teach but God's law is established in the heart by faith that works by love *Romans 3:31; 1 John 5:3-4; Romans 13:8-10. According to the scriptures, sin (breaking God' commandments and not believing and following God's Word) is the difference between the children of God and the children of the devil *1 John 3:6-10; 1 John 2:3-4; Revelation 12:17; Revelation 14:12; Revelation 22:14. Now what is it here that you do not believe and why (scriptures please).

BABerean2 said:

If you could keep the ten commandments perfectly, why did Christ have to die? King David committed adultery, and conspired to have Uriah killed? Was King David saved by keeping the ten commandments? The thief on the cross beside of Christ accepted the free gift of Christ paying his sin debt. Was the sinner saved by keeping the ten commandments? Paul had to correct Peter in the Book of Galatians. Was Peter saved by keeping the ten commandments? Are the people above the children of the devil, or the children of God? The answer reveals the true Gospel of Jesus Christ. .

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Strawman? Who has said anywhere that we keep God's 10 commandments perfectly? According to the scriptures it is Gods' will that we do not sin *1 John 2:1 but if any man sins we have an advocate with the father Jesus Christ the righteous and if we confess our sins he is faithful and just to forgive us for our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness *1 John 1:9. The purpose of Gods' law in the new covenant is not for righteousness but to give us a knowledge of what sin is when broken and righteousness when obeyed *Romans 3:20; Romans 7:7; 1 John 3:4; Psalms 119:172 and according to James and Paul if we break anyone of God's 10 commandments we stand guilty before God of sin *James 2:10-11; Romans 3:19-20. This of course is including God's 4th commandment "seventh day" Sabbath which is one of God's 10 commandments that give us the knowledge of what sin is when broken *Romans 3:20; Romans 7:7. So the purpose of God's law is to lead us all to Christ as sinners in need of a Savior so that we might be forgiven through faith and be made free to to be born again to walk in Gods' Spirit (Galatians 3:22-25; Romans 8:1-4; Galatians 5:16). In order to be born again to walk in God's spirit *Galatians 5:16 and God's new covenant promises (Hebrews 8:10-12; from Jeremiah 31:31-34 and Ezekiel 36:24-27) Jesus says we must be born again in John 3:3-7. Those who are born again do not practice sin according to John in 1 John 3:6-9 as those who practice sin and those who do not practice sin is the difference between the children of God and the children of the devil according to 1 John 3:4-10; 1 John 2:3-4; Revelation 12:17: Revelation 14:12 and Revelation 22:14. No one is saved by law keeping all the law does is to give us the knowledge that we are all sinners in need of God's grace and to lead us to Christ that we might be forgiven through faith *Galatians 3:22-25. Faith however does not abolish God's law in the new covenant according to the scriptures it establishes Gods' law in the lives of all those who have been born again into Gods new covenant promise of love *Romans 3:31; Romans 8:4; 1 John 3:6-9; 1 John 5:2-4.

Now what is it here you do not believe and why (scripture please)?

AdamjEdgar said:

There are some truly intellectually challenged individuals on this forum.
How is it that this question I asked is reduced to arguing some of the absolute crud I am reading.

I DID NOT ASK WHETHER OR NOT YOU BELIEVE THE LAW IS A LAW OF LOVE!!!
I simply put one perspective out there.

The intelligent people here are supposed to be illustrating why THEY THINK GOD PUT THE 4th commandment is where it is!

DO YOU NOT UNDERSTAND HOW TO DO THIS?

I am sick and tired of redneck fundamentalist offtopic preaching. Take your idiot offtopic preaching somewhere else!

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Sorry for being off-topic in your thread. It happens a lot on these forums, especially anything to do with God’s 4th Commandment. It’s easy to forget what thread your in (at least for me) because you receive a notice someone replied and it takes you straight to their post, so you end up responding back not realizing which post you’re in. My suggestion is to ask a moderator to close this thread and repost and write your rules for posting at the top. You might also want to try the 7th day safe house where its against the rules to argue against the Sabbath or the Traditional Adventist forums. You probably won’t receive as many responses, but at least you won’t have all the nonsense about God’s Sabbath. God bless

AdamjEdgar said:

I wasnt having a go at anyone specifically...its just that it really seems to me that there are those on this forum that have a passion for descending into arguments either in favour or, or against particular denomination views.
I have no problem with this in an open ended question, however, this question is not denomination specific.
It is simply taking an existing group of bible passages and asking the question based on ones own interpretation.

The object of the exercise is for me to be able to learn from other different perspectives on why God may have put the 4th commandment where it is.

How that question could possibly descend into an argument about Adventist Sabbath Doctrine is beyond belief. For starters, there are quite a number of organisations that believe in and worship on the Sabbath. It is not a Seventh Day Adventist only doctrine nor did SDA's come up with the idea originally!

Hopefully this analogy works (but not all countries play cricket...so it might be a bad one). Two cricket teams intent on nothing more than bowling bouncers at each other and verbally slanging each other quickly loose sight of the entire reason for playing the game.

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I think your post questions were addressed back in the thread earlier here linked in the bottom section of this linked post some time ago Adam. As far as what I see the scriptures teaching in regards to the placement of God's 4th commandment is indeed linked to the first great commandment of loving God with all of our heart, strength and soul. I do not think it is going off topic to the OP to show that the placement of God's 4th commandment in the first 4 of Gods 10 commandments is showing our duty of love to God and the second six as our duty of love to our fellow man. This is demonstrated in both the old covenant and the new covenant scriptures. If people disagree with this of course they have a right to disagree and show why they disagree just the same as people have the right to share scripture for why they agree or disagree with in what is posted by others. Did you get a chance to read the linked post that was sent to you above? I did not get a reply from you so do not know your view to what I have posted in addressing your OP questions. For me I see the forums as an opportunity to share Gods Word. There will always be those who agree or disagree with the scriptures. Of course everyone has the right to agree or disagree with the scriptures as this is a public forum and this has how it has always been all through time to this present day. You will find in most forum topics people will go off topic from time to time as this is normal. As the OP writer just a simple friendly reminder to address your OP questions for those who haven't is all that is required in most cases to help others to stay on topic.

God bless

Where the commandment was placed is unimportant to most of us as is seen in the response. It must be important to you and you gave your reason why. When the subject went off topic it meant we were through discussing. My advice is to not take what happens on a forum so seriously as to write such a hurtful response as: " I am sick and tired of redneck fundamentalist offtopic preaching. Take your idiot offtopic preaching somewhere else!" I feel bad that you are the one that is hurting. I did my best by removing the post that I never received any response.

Christianity is all about loving relationships. That is the greatest theme in all of the Bible. Sometimes none of our responses reveal that love.

AdamjEdgar said:

Indeed, why is it even in the moral law at all?

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The term "the moral law" is not found in the Bible.

It was invented by those who wrote the Westminster Confession of Faith.

The 4th commandment was the "sign" of the Sinai Covenant.

Exo_31:13 Speak thou also unto the children of Israel, saying, Verily my sabbaths ye shall keep: for it is a sign between me and you throughout your generations; that ye may know that I am the LORD that doth sanctify you.

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