The great commission is false

anti-conformist · May 28, 2021

Love First said:
And why do you think that people in the US know about Yeshua? Do you think that it’s possible that they know because people preach?

No, i think God draws them, just like the scripture says.

Answer me this, do you think it is YOU that convinces someone to follow God? Can you argue someone into heaven?

Love First · May 28, 2021

anti-conformist said:
No, i think God draws them, just like the scripture says.

Answer me this, do you think it is YOU that convinces someone to follow God? Can you argue someone into heaven?

You do realize that you are chatting on a Christian Forum right now which is built as a tool for evangelism right?

anti-conformist · May 28, 2021

Love First said:
You do realize that you are chatting on a Christian Forum right now which is built as a tool for evangelism right?

i have never been opposed to evangelism. I am opposed to the idea that the great commission is somehow an obligation and a duty of the modern christian. it isnt. like is have said numerous times God can accomplish his will without you.

How do i know i am right? because i was an atheist for the first 27 years of my life (now 47). My physics professor (another atheist) asked me if i believed in God? I told him i didnt know, because i had honestly never thought about it. I went home and started studying, trying to answer that question. I never went to church once throughout this journey. I never reached out to another Christian, I simply picked up the holy books and started dissecting each one. The bible was the one that i found to be true. God himself taught me, no man taught me. God didnt need a human to teach me, God did it, and access to His word was all i needed.

But technically an atheist lead me to Christ

anti-conformist · May 28, 2021

Bruce Leiter said:
Where in the Bible did you get these thoughts? We are all called to be witnesses to what God has done and is doing in our lives. Passages in both testaments call us to that way of living for Jesus.

this part is where i get these thoughts...

I am God, and there is none like me,
10 declaring the end from the beginning
and from ancient times things not yet done,
saying, ‘My counsel shall stand,
and I will accomplish all my purpose,’
11 calling a bird of prey from the east,
the man of my counsel from a far country.
I have spoken, and I will bring it to pass;
I have purposed, and I will do it.

Love First · May 28, 2021

anti-conformist said:
i have never been opposed to evangelism. I am opposed to the idea that the great commission is somehow an obligation and a duty of the modern christian. it isnt. like is have said numerous times God can accomplish his will without you.

How do i know i am right? because i was an atheist for the first 27 years of my life (now 47). My physics professor (another atheist) asked me if i believed in God? I told him i didnt know, because i had honestly never thought about it. I went home and started studying, trying to answer that question. I never went to church once throughout this journey. I never reached out to another Christian, I simply picked up the holy books and started dissecting each one. The bible was the one that i found to be true. God himself taught me, no man taught me. God didnt need a human to teach me, God did it, and he didnt need a human to accomplish it. Access to His word was all i needed.

That’s a nice testimony.

So how long have you been a Christian?

And how did you hear about the Bible?

anti-conformist · May 28, 2021

Love First said:
That’s a nice testimony.

So how long have you been a Christian?

And how did you hear about the Bible?

Thanks, i have been a Christian for 15 years, but i have only been to church a handful of times.

The bible in our country is ubiquitous, i dont how i heard about it. I think it was probably just because it is pervasive within our culture.

Love First · May 28, 2021

anti-conformist said:
Thanks, i have been a Christian for 15 years, but i have only been to church a handful of times.

The bible in our country is ubiquitous, i dont how i heard about it. I think it was probably just because it is pervasive within our culture.

So where did you get your Bible from?

Saint Steven · May 28, 2021

Love First said:
Well since Jesus is God the Father in the flesh yes he was asking them to pray to him.

Say what?
You get a "do over", if you want it. - lol
Who is Jesus? (in reference to the trinity)

Love First · May 28, 2021

Saint Steven said:
Say what?
You get a "do over", if you want it. - lol
Who is Jesus? (in reference to the trinity)

Jesus is the Everlasting Father. Isaiah 9:6

Saint Steven · May 28, 2021

Love First said:
Jesus is the Everlasting Father. Isaiah 9:6

Nice try, but the Son is a distinct person from the Father. (and the Spirit) See the gospel of John chapter one. (or the whole NT for that matter)

Love First · May 28, 2021

Saint Steven said:
Nice try, but the Son is distinct from the Father. (and the Spirit) See the gospel of John chapter one. (or the whole NT for that matter)

So explain this to me then?

John 14:8-10
King James Version

8 Philip saith unto him, Lord, show us the Father, and it sufficeth us.

9 Jesus saith unto him, Have I been so long time with you, and yet hast thou not known me, Philip? he that hath seen me hath seen the Father; and how sayest thou then, Show us the Father?

10 Believest thou not that I am in the Father, and the Father in me? the words that I speak unto you I speak not of myself: but the Father that dwelleth in me, he doeth the works.

anti-conformist · May 28, 2021

Love First said:
So where did you get your Bible from?

the library.

Love First · May 28, 2021

anti-conformist said:
the library.

Who made the Bible you found at the library?

bling · May 28, 2021

anti-conformist said:
So you told me this long story to glorify you or God? who get the glory in your little brag session? what you all fail to realize is that you are stealing glory from God by assuming you have the power to do anything. You are NOTHING without him, and it would serve you well to remember that.

He doesnt need any of us to accomplish his will.

If I do anything “good” it was God working through me, so what good are you seeing?

Someone had to pester me into going with him, to do what was really good for me, so how is that me?

Christ physically came to earth, personally spent time with a small group teaching them, listening to them, showing them, Loving them, correcting them, mentoring them and living with them, people still need that and it is available for every nonbeliever in the world through Christ living in and through Christians.

Christ, went to people, so is Christ your example?

God allowed severe persecutions in the first century that scattered the Christians, who went out teaching, so is that what God was wanting them to do?

Those servants who the master sent out inviting homeless people to an unbelievable huge feast did not through the feast. Those servants just had the privilege an honor of sharing in the happiness of these homeless people. It was really the master helping and sharing with the servants and not the servants really doing something for the Master.

What are you missing out on by not evangelizing?

Are you like a sectator, when God is inviting/offering you the gift of greater participation?

Godly type Love grows with use and can grow rapidly, while not using the Love you have been given results in withering.

Saint Steven · May 28, 2021

Love First said:
So explain this to me then?

John 14:8-10
King James Version

8 Philip saith unto him, Lord, show us the Father, and it sufficeth us.

9 Jesus saith unto him, Have I been so long time with you, and yet hast thou not known me, Philip? he that hath seen me hath seen the Father; and how sayest thou then, Show us the Father?

10 Believest thou not that I am in the Father, and the Father in me? the words that I speak unto you I speak not of myself: but the Father that dwelleth in me, he doeth the works.

The Trinity 101: God the Father, God the Son, God the Holy Spirit. Three distinct persons.
The Father is not the Son. The Son is not the Holy Spirit. The Holy Spirit is not the Father.

Der Alte · May 28, 2021

Saint Steven said:
* * *

Saint Steven said:
The Trinity 101: God the Father, God the Son, God the Holy Spirit. Three distinct persons.
The Father is not the Son. The Son is not the Holy Spirit. The Holy Spirit is not the Father.

Almost right. There is one God. The Father is God but He is not the Son or the Holy Spirit. The Son is God but He is not the Father or the Holy Spirit. The Holy Spirit is God but He is not the Son or the Father. There is one God.

Carl Emerson · May 28, 2021

One forgotten aspect of the great commission not mentioned on this thread is the prayer of Jesus when He said that visible community was to be a major thrust of evangelism.
This is one of the most neglected ways of evangelising.
Sadly in our 'look after number one' world the cost is too high for most believers

John 17
20 “I do not ask for these only, but also for those who will believe in me through their word, 21 that they may all be one, just as you, Father, are in me, and I in you, that they also may be in us, so that the world may believe that you have sent me. 22 The glory that you have given me I have given to them, that they may be one even as we are one, 23 I in them and you in me, that they may become perfectly one, so that the world may know that you sent me and loved them even as you loved me.

Saint Steven · May 28, 2021

Carl Emerson said:
One forgotten aspect of the great commission not mentioned on this thread is the prayer of Jesus when He said that visible community was to be a major thrust of evangelism.
This is one of the most neglected ways of evangelising.

Correct me if I am wrong, but I think this is what the OP is about. The idea that if we are what we should be as individuals and as a church, that the world will be drawn to us.

This is in vast contrast to the typical Evangelical view of going out into the world armed with apologetic arguments hoping to win the lost by outdoing their ability to debate us. Not to mention the use of fear tactics like the threat of eternal conscious torment. Which basically amounts to spiritual extortion. IMHO

Guojing · May 28, 2021

anti-conformist said:
No, i think God draws them, just like the scripture says.

Answer me this, do you think it is YOU that convinces someone to follow God? Can you argue someone into heaven?

Would you object to the point that the Great Commission of the Body of Christ is not found in Matthew to Acts but rather what Paul stated as the Ministry of Reconciliation in 2 Corinthians 5:11-21?

Now that is a commission we can actually follow.

It is one that does not involve the parts most people ignore in the others.

Matthew's version, the most popular one, had Jesus instructing them to teach others to follow "everything" he has taught them, which if you read the entire Gospel of Matthew, had instructions which are clearly incompatible with Paul's Gospel. "Sell all you have'. 'do not go into the Gentiles' 'I was only sent to the lost sheep of Israel', 'Follow what the Pharisees instruct you as they sat on Moses's seat' etc.
John's version had an instruction that only the Roman Catholic church practiced, 20:23 If you forgive the sins of any, they are forgiven them; if you withhold forgiveness from any, it is withheld.” No Protestant church that I know of practice this.
Mark's version said you must believe AND be baptized to be saved, safe to say, not many churches follow the latter. Furthermore, no church would tell their Gentile believers to pick up serpents as a sign now.
Luke's version say you must start from Jerusalem, obviously from what Paul said in Romans 9-11, that avenue is now closed since the vast majority of the Jews rejected the gospel.

Love First · May 28, 2021

Saint Steven said:
The Trinity 101: God the Father, God the Son, God the Holy Spirit. Three distinct persons.
The Father is not the Son. The Son is not the Holy Spirit. The Holy Spirit is not the Father.

And yet they are one.

You didn’t answer my question. I asked you to explain the passage in light of your understanding of the Trinity.

Have you ever heard of the Athanasian Creed?

Athanasian Creed

There are volumes written on the doctrine of the Trinity so it’s not easy to boil down to one simple statement.

1 Timothy 3:16
And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh, justified in the Spirit, seen of angels, preached unto the Gentiles, believed on in the world, received up into glory.

The Trinity is not near as simple as what you are trying to make it out to be but it is a great mystery.

The great commission is false

Active Member

Houston We Have A Problem

Active Member

Active Member

Houston We Have A Problem

Active Member

Houston We Have A Problem

You can call me Steve

Houston We Have A Problem

You can call me Steve

Houston We Have A Problem

Active Member

Houston We Have A Problem

Regular Member

You can call me Steve

This is me about 1 yr. old.

Well-Known Member

You can call me Steve

Well-Known Member

Houston We Have A Problem

Similar threads