If you were God, why might you place the Sabbath Commandment BETWEEN 1-3 God & 5-10 Neighbour

Bob S

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Bob S...you have not only NOT answered the question, your point is completely irrelevant to it.

All i have done is start off the thought process by posting my theory as to why God put the Sabbath Commandment where he did. What i now want is your theory on why the Sabbath commandment is where it is...between commandments about God, and commandments about your neighbour (or man)!

Please do not argue it shouldnt be there...the fact is, God placed in at number 4 where it is and to argue against that is pointless and mute actually.
I apologize for not answering the OP. My post was off topic. I would not have the foggiest reason why a law that is ceremonial or ritual was sandwiched between laws dealing with morality. All the other holy day Sabbaths are found in the 603 laws given to Israel.

So Bob S ...IF YOU WERE GOD,

1. Why might you put the Sabbath Commandment between 1-3 & 5-10.

Your answer needs to use scriptural referencing to support your reason for this


You can argue all you like about whether or not we are supposed to keep the moral law or indeed what the cataloging of them is...however, that does not address my question!

i ask that you directly answer the question!
Like Alfred Lord Tennyson said: Our is not to reason why, ours but to do and die. I cannot give you a reason, but I do know that everything in the Holy Writ is telling the story of the Plan of Salvation. From creation, Adam's sin, and clear down to Jesus coming in the clouds to redeem those who believe and love others as He loves us. Every other thing is nice to know. Those who dwell on the Sabbath and the other nine commandments probably have answers for your question. I will remove my post.
 
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BABerean2

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He saves His people out of bondage,

Why did Paul tell the Galatian believers to "cast out" the Sinai Covenant of "bondage" in the passage below?

Gal 4:24 Which things are an allegory: for these are the two covenants; the one from the mount Sinai, which gendereth to bondage, which is Agar.
Gal 4:25 For this Agar is mount Sinai in Arabia, and answereth to Jerusalem which now is, and is in bondage with her children.
Gal 4:26 But Jerusalem which is above is free, which is the mother of us all.
Gal 4:27 For it is written, Rejoice, thou barren that bearest not; break forth and cry, thou that travailest not: for the desolate hath many more children than she which hath an husband.
Gal 4:28 Now we, brethren, as Isaac was, are the children of promise.
Gal 4:29 But as then he that was born after the flesh persecuted him that was born after the Spirit, even so it is now.
Gal 4:30 Nevertheless what saith the scripture? Cast out the bondwoman and her son: for the son of the bondwoman shall not be heir with the son of the freewoman.
Gal 4:31 So then, brethren, we are not children of the bondwoman, but of the free.


This is in agreement with what Paul said below.

2Co 3:6 who also made us sufficient as ministers of the new covenant, not of the letter but of the Spirit; for the letter kills, but the Spirit gives life.
2Co 3:7 But if
the ministry of death, written and engraved on stones, was glorious, so that the children of Israel could not look steadily at the face of Moses because of the glory of his countenance, which glory was passing away,
2Co 3:8
how will the ministry of the Spirit not be more glorious?


In Galatians 3:16-29 Paul said the law was "added" 430 years "after" the promise made to Abraham "until" the seed (Christ) could come to whom the promise was made.
This reveals the temporary nature of the Sinai Covenant.


.
 
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LoveGodsWord

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When we catalogue the 10 commandments we find

Commandments 1-3 = Love to God

4th commandment = Sabbath (made for man to worship the creator, to enter into Gods rest)

Commandments 5-10 = Love to thy Neighbour

What is the significance of the position of the Sabbath commandment in this location amongst the moral laws written in stone by the finger of God at Sinai? If you were to put yourself in God's shoes, and basing your answer on issues such as

-the overall plan of salvation as outlined in the Bible
- the contexts of various scriptural references used
- avoiding copying and pasting copious amounts of unnecessary text (seems to happen a lot here)

Why might you (as God) put the Sabbath commandment in this location in the moral law?

I am not looking for an argument about whether or not we should or should not keep the Sabbath. This is simply about the location of the 4th commandment and its relevance to the overall Biblical story about the creation of the world, the fall, and the Gospel of Jesus - the plan of salvation!

For example, i have a theory that the Sabbath is an essential link in our salvation because if we do not love our neighbour, we cannot love God. Therefore, the location of the Sabbath commandment between 1-3&5-10 is a critical part of the Gospel and that is why is it found in this location.

To illustrate part of my basis for this theory is the parable of the Sheep and the Goats...in Matthew 25:

…39 "When did we see You sick or in prison and visit You?’ 40And the King will reply, ‘Truly I tell you, whatever you did for one of the least of these brothers of Mine, you did for Me.’ 41Then He will say to those on His left, ‘Depart from Me, you who are cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels"

A further reference in my theory is the question by the pharasee who was an expert in law in Matthew 22:36 “Teacher, which commandment is the greatest in the Law?” Jesus answered...

“ ‘Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind.’e 38This is the first and greatest commandment. 39And the second is like it: ‘Love your neighbor as yourself.’f 40All the Law and the Prophets hang on these two commandments.”

If Gods law is a law of love, and the act of worship is a reciprocation of that, then to me this seems like a logical place for the location of the 4th commmandment!

So what we in effect have is the following:

God - SABBATH - Man

JEsus said "I am the Lord of the Sabbath".

Based on my theory, this means that the Sabbath forms part of/ or perhaps even IS the intercessory between man and God! So when Jesus said, I come to fulfill the law, he came to bridge the gap between Commandments 1-3 and 5-10!

Good post Adam.

It is quite clear that according to God that those who love God keep His commandments. There are direct parallels between the new testament scriptures and the old testament scriptures in reference to God's 10 commandments and how love is expressed both to God and our fellow man by being obedient to God's law.

For example God links those who love God as keeping the 10 commandments in Exodus 20:6 where he says God's mercy is given to those who love God by keeping His commandments while in Exodus 20:5 God links those who hate Him as those who bow down to idols and worship them breaking his commandments.

The same parallels can be seen in the new covenant when Jesus says if you love me keep my commandments in John 14:15 while in John 15:10 Jesus says "If" (being a conditional promise) we keep His commandments we shall abide in His love just the same as Jesus kept God's commandments and abides in His love. This is why Jesus says in Matthew 22:36-40 "on theses two great commandments of love to God and man (quoting from Deuteronomy 6:5 and Leviticus 19:18 from the old testament) hang all the law and the prophets.

That is our love to God and love to our fellow man is expressed obedience to God's 10 commandments. Paul agreeing with Jesus shows this also in Romans 13:8-10 where he says that obedience to those commandment in the 10 commandments are how we love our neighbor as our self as does James in James 2:8-12.

No one therefore can claim to love God according to the scriptures by knowingly living a life of unrepentant sin (breaking Gods' law) by breaking anyone of God's 10 commandments *James 2:10-11. In fact according to John we can only claim to know God if we keep His commandments and those who claim to know God while breaking God's commandments are lying in 1 John 2:3-4. John goes on to say that by keeping God's commandments is how we know that we love God and if we love God keeping His commandments is not hard in 1 John 5:2-3 and this is the definition of love that we walk after his commandments. This is the commandment, that, as you have heard from the beginning, you should walk in it in 2 John 1:6.

So love is expressed in obedience to Gods' law not by breaking God's law. According to the scriptures if we are living in a life of known unrepentant sin breaking anyone of Gods' commandments we do not know God and stand guilty before God of sin and in danger of God's judgements in 1 John 2:3-4; 1 John 3:6; Romans 3:19-20; James 2:10-11; Hebrews 10:26-31.

Back to Exodus 20 and the giving of Gods' 10 commandments..

Exodus 20:5-6 [5], You shall not bow down yourself to them, nor serve them: for I the LORD your God am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers on the children to the third and fourth generation of them that hate me; [6], And showing mercy to thousands of them that love me, and keep my commandments.

...................

Back to your OP question....

The first four commandments *Exodus 20:3-11 show us our duty of love to God showing us how we love God for those who have been born again with a new heart to love through faith into Gods 'new covenant promise of obedience to God's law (Hebrews 8:10-12; from Jeremiah 31:31-34; Ezekiel 36:24-27; Romans 13:8-12; James 2:8-12; Matthew 22:36-40).

The second six commandments *Exodus 20:12-17 show us our duty of love to our fellow man *Romans 13:8-10; James 2:8-12. Once again no one can claim to love God while knowingly breaking anyone of God's 10 commandments according to the scriptures (1 John 2:3-4; Exodus 20:5-6; John 14:15; John 15:10; 2 John 1:6; 1 John 5:2-3) because sin (breaking anyone of God's commandments - James 2:10-11; 1 John 3:4) is the difference between the children of God and the children of the devil according to John in 1 John 3:9-10; 1 John 2:3-4; Revelation 12:17; Revelation 14:12; Revelation 22:14.

Therefore the placing of God's 4th commandment is in the first and greatest commandment according to Jesus of loving God with all of our heart, soul and mind and is one of the commandments that describe our duty of love to God.

Thanks for sharing Adam.

HAPPY SABBATH EVERYONE! :wave:


 
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LoveGodsWord

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Why did Paul tell the Galatian believers to "cast out" the Sinai Covenant of "bondage" in the passage below?

Bondage is to sin *John 8:31-34 (breaking Gods' commandments - 1 John 3:4; James 2:10-11) and it's condemnation and death (Romans 6:23) not obedience to God's law by faith that works by love (Romans 3:31; Romans 8:1-4). 2 Corinthians 3 is not talking about God saving us from the 10 commandments. Paul says in Romans 7:12 that Gods' law is Holy Just and Good and that all it does is to give us the knowledge of what sin is when broken in Romans 3:20 and Romans 7:7. Gods' law cannot save us however. We are not saved by obedience to God's law because all of us have sinned and fall short of God's glory and the wages of sin is condemnation and death *Romans 3:19-19; Romans 6:23. We are saved by grace through faith and not of ourselves it is a gift of God and not of works lest any man should boast *Ephesians 2:8-9 but Gods grace is so we can be obedient to the faith *Romans 1:5. Obedience to God's Law is not how we are saved it is the FRUIT of faith of one that is already been given Gods promise of salvation and the fruit of God's work in us *Philippians 2:13 as we believe and follow his word *John 10:26-27. If our faith does not have the fruit of obedience to God's Word it is dead according to James *James 2:18-20; 26 and our tree will be cast down and thrown into the fire according to Jesus *Matthew 3:10; 7:19-20; 13:49-50; Hebrews 10:26-27. Therefore we do not abolish God's law through faith like some people teach but God's law is established in the heart by faith that works by love according to Paul and John *Romans 3:31; 1 John 5:2-4; Romans 13:8-10. According to the scriptures, sin (breaking God' commandments and not believing and following God's Word) is the difference between the children of God and the children of the devil *1 John 3:6-10; 1 John 2:3-4; Revelation 12:17; Revelation 14:12; Revelation 22:14. Now what is it here that you disagree with, or will you also ignore and not respond to the content of this post and it's scriptures that disagree with your teachings of lawlessness?
 
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BABerean2

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If fact according to John we can only claim to know God if we keep His commandments and those who claim to know God while breaking God's commandments are lying in 1 John 2:3-4. John goes on to say that by keeping God's commandments is how we know that we love God and if we love God keeping His commandments is not hard in 1 John 5:2-3 and this is the definition of love that we walk after his commandments. This is the commandment, that, as you have heard from the beginning, you should walk in it in 2 John 1:6.


You quoted part of 1 John, and 2 John which speak of "His commandments", but why did you leave out the end of chapter 3 that actually defines "His commandments", which are the commandments John was talking about?


1Jn 3:22 And whatever we ask we receive from Him, because we keep His commandments and do those things that are pleasing in His sight.
1Jn 3:23 And this is His commandment: that we should believe on the name of His Son Jesus Christ and love one another, as He gave us commandment.
1Jn 3:24 Now he who keeps His commandments abides in Him, and He in him. And by this we know that He abides in us, by the Spirit whom He has given us.


Are you attempting to switch one set of commandments for another?

Would this be a violation of the 9th commandment?

1Jn 2:4 He who says, "I know Him," and does not keep His commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.


Deu 5:20 'You shall not bear false witness against your neighbor.

.
 
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LoveGodsWord

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You quoted part of 1 John, and 2 John which speak of "his commandments", but why did you leave out the end of chapter 3 that actually defines "his commandments", which are the commandments John was talking about?


1Jn 3:22 And whatever we ask we receive from Him, because we keep His commandments and do those things that are pleasing in His sight.
1Jn 3:23 And this is His commandment: that we should believe on the name of His Son Jesus Christ and love one another, as He gave us commandment.
1Jn 3:24 Now he who keeps His commandments abides in Him, and He in him. And by this we know that He abides in us, by the Spirit whom He has given us.

Are you attempting to switch one set of commandments for another?

Would this be a violation of the 9th commandment?

1Jn 2:4 He who says, "I know Him," and does not keep His commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him..

Your leaving out much scripture context here and perhaps this is where your problem lies as love is not separate from God's law according to the scriptures. In post # 23 linked we see the scriptures from and the very words of Jesus in Matthew 22:36-40; Paul in Romans 13:8-10 and James in James 2:8-12 and John (1 John 2:3-4; Exodus 20:5-6; John 14:15; John 15:10; 2 John 1:6; 1 John 5:2-3; 1 John 3:9-10; 1 John 2:3-4; Revelation 12:17; Revelation 14:12; Revelation 22:14) who are all in agreement that love is not separate from Gods' law it is expressed in obedience to Gods' law and if we love God and our fellow man we will not be breaking Gods' law.

Now let's add John back into the mix in light of the above scripture and also add the full context to John’s epistles as we will see that John is also agreeing with Jesus, Paul and James when he says that love is expressed in obedience to Gods’ law not by breaking Gods’ law.

Let's look at the full context of 1 John 3:23.

1 John 1:5-9
John starts off his epistle of 1 JOHN in 1 John 1:5-9 where he opens and says that if we do not walk in the light (truth) of God's Word we are not following God where he finishes in v9 stating that if we confess our sins then Jesus is faithful and just to forgive us for our sins and to cleanse us from all wrong doing.

We then move on to 1 John 2 where John gives us the reason for writing his epistle. Pay very close attention to why and the reason JOHN is writing this epistle in v1.

1 JOHN 2:1-4.
[1], My little children, THESE THINGS I WRITE UNTO YOU THAT YOU SIN NOT. And if any man sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous:

NOTE: This is very important as it states the very reason why John is writing the epistle of all God’s children in 1 John that is that we sin not!

Let’s continue…

[2], And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for our's only, but also for the sins of the whole world.
[3], And HEREBY WE KNOW THAT WE KNOW HIM IF WE KEEP HIS COMMANDMENTS .
[4], HE THAT SAYS I KNOW HIM AND DOES NOT KEEP HIS COMMANDMENTS IS A LIAR AND THE TRUTH IS NOT IN HIM. <Remember 1 JOHN 1:5-6 walking in light and darkness>

NOTE: Same theme being presented in v3-4 those who walk in darkness do not keep God's Commandments. God's people keep God's Commandments. The context is that we sin not.
Now to show that we are talking about God's 10 commandments once again and that love is expressed through obedience to Gods’ law here we need to define from God's Word what sin is as the reason for John epistle is that we sin not.

WHAT IS SIN?

NEW TESTAMENT SCRIPTURES

JAMES 2:8-12
[8], If ye fulfill the royal law according to the scripture, Thou shalt love thy neighbor as thyself, ye do well:
[9], But if ye have respect to persons, YOU COMMIT SIN, AND ARE CONVINCED OF THE LAW AS TRANSGRESSORS.
[10], For whosoever shall keep the whole law, and yet offend in one point, he is guilty of all.
[11] For he that said, DO NOT COMMIT ADULTERY, said also, DO NOT KILL. Now if thou commit NO ADULTERY, yet if thou KILL, YOU ARE BECOME A TRANSGRESSOR OF GOD'S LAW

Yep, James is pretty clear if we brake ANY of God's Law (10 commandments) then we are a TRANSGRESSOR of God's LAW and commit SIN. James quotes two of the 10 Commandments saying that if we break them we commit sin v9 that are summed up in the 2nd great commandments of LOVE to God and LOVE to our neighbour in v11. Maybe you missed that one?

ROMANS 7:7 [7], What shall we say then? is the law sin? God forbid. Nay, I HAD NOT KNOWN SIN, BUT BY THE LAW: for I had not known lust, EXCEPT THE LAW HAD SAID YOU SHALL NOT COVET.

Well here we have Paul in agreement with James and John also telling us that he did not know what sin was without God's 10 Commandments. SIN is breaking God's commandments and Paul uses the 10th commandment as an example of breaking any of God's LAW (10 commandments) = SIN (Exodus 20:17)

links to what John also says in which is also context to 1 John 3:23 that you left out...

1 JOHN 3:4 [4] Whosoever commits SIN transgresses also the law: for SIN is the transgression of the law.

John is saying the same thing as James and Paul and states that if we TRANSGRESS God's LAW then we commit SIN because SIN IS THE TRANSGRESSION OF GOD'S LAW. So it is very clear that SIN is breaking ANY of God's LAW (10 commandments). We will look at the chapter context John uses v15 of MURDER as an example of sin which is God's 6th Command of the 10.

NOTE: Sin as defined in God's WORD is therefore breaking any one of God’s 10 Commandments in both the OLD and NEW TESTAMENT scriptures. So now we see from the context of 1 John 3:23 that sin is defined as the transgression of any of God's 10 Commandments. This links to 1 John 2:1 which shows the reason for Johns's epistles is that we sin not (do not break God's Commandments) which is the context of 1 John 2:3-4 that says if we break Gods’ commandments and claim to know God we are not telling the truth. So if sin is defined in God's Word as breaking any one of Gods 10 commandments then the commandment spoken about in 1 JOHN 2:3-4 are God's 10 Commandments.

1 JOHN 2:3-4
[3], And HEREBY WE KNOW THAT WE KNOW HIM IF WE KEEP HIS COMMANDMENTS .
[4], HE THAT SAYS I KNOW HIM AND DOES NOT KEEP HIS COMMANDMENTS IS A LIAR AND THE TRUTH IS NOT IN HIM.

NOTE: Context is sin, in v1 that we sin not; God's WORD defines sin as breaking God's 10 Commandments then commandments being referred to here are the 10 Commandments that give us the knowledge of what sin is *ROMANS 3:20)

...............

SUMMARY SO FAR 1 John 1 and 1 John 2; Those who walk in darkness or do not follow the truth of God's WORD are not following God. The reason why John is writing the Epistle of 1 John is that we do not sin. God's WORD defines sin as the breaking of anyone of God's 10 Commandments. The context of 1 John 2:3-4 is 1 John 1:2 that we sin not. Therefore the Commandments being spoken of in 1 John 2:3-4 are the 10 Commandments.
 
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klutedavid

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When we catalogue the 10 commandments we find

Commandments 1-3 = Love to God

4th commandment = Sabbath (made for man to worship the creator, to enter into Gods rest)

Commandments 5-10 = Love to thy Neighbour

What is the significance of the position of the Sabbath commandment in this location amongst the moral laws written in stone by the finger of God at Sinai? If you were to put yourself in God's shoes, and basing your answer on issues such as

-the overall plan of salvation as outlined in the Bible
- the contexts of various scriptural references used
- avoiding copying and pasting copious amounts of unnecessary text (seems to happen a lot here)

Why might you (as God) put the Sabbath commandment in this location in the moral law?

I am not looking for an argument about whether or not we should or should not keep the Sabbath. This is simply about the location of the 4th commandment and its relevance to the overall Biblical story about the creation of the world, the fall, and the Gospel of Jesus - the plan of salvation!

For example, i have a theory that the Sabbath is an essential link in our salvation because if we do not love our neighbour, we cannot love God. Therefore, the location of the Sabbath commandment between 1-3&5-10 is a critical part of the Gospel and that is why is it found in this location.

To illustrate part of my basis for this theory is the parable of the Sheep and the Goats...in Matthew 25:

…39 "When did we see You sick or in prison and visit You?’ 40And the King will reply, ‘Truly I tell you, whatever you did for one of the least of these brothers of Mine, you did for Me.’ 41Then He will say to those on His left, ‘Depart from Me, you who are cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels"

A further reference in my theory is the question by the pharasee who was an expert in law in Matthew 22:36 “Teacher, which commandment is the greatest in the Law?” Jesus answered...

“ ‘Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind.’e 38This is the first and greatest commandment. 39And the second is like it: ‘Love your neighbor as yourself.’f 40All the Law and the Prophets hang on these two commandments.”

If Gods law is a law of love, and the act of worship is a reciprocation of that, then to me this seems like a logical place for the location of the 4th commmandment!

So what we in effect have is the following:

God - SABBATH - Man

JEsus said "I am the Lord of the Sabbath".

Based on my theory, this means that the Sabbath forms part of/ or perhaps even IS the intercessory between man and God! So when Jesus said, I come to fulfill the law, he came to bridge the gap between Commandments 1-3 and 5-10!
The first commandment you listed is not the first commandment in the new covenant. The first commandment in the new covenant is shown below.

1 John 3:23-24
This is His commandment, that we believe in the name of His Son Jesus Christ, and love one another, just as He commanded us. The one who keeps His commandments abides in Him, and He in him. We know by this that He abides in us, by the Spirit whom He has given us.

The second commandment is also shown below.

1 John 3:23-24
This is His commandment, that we believe in the name of His Son Jesus Christ, and love one another, just as He commanded us. The one who keeps His commandments abides in Him, and He in him. We know by this that He abides in us, by the Spirit whom He has given us.

Do you keep His commandments?
 
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BABerean2

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Your leaving out much scripture context here and perhaps this is where your problem lies.

I am not the one leaving out what John recorded below, which means he knows there are two different sets of commandments.


Joh 15:10 If ye keep my commandments, ye shall abide in my love; even as I have kept my Father's commandments, and abide in his love.


Any unbiased witness would have to admit there are two different sets of commandments above.

John is that unbiased witness, as proven in the Book of 1 John.


.
 
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BABerean2

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Do you keep His commandments?

How many times do members of SDA have to break the 9th commandment, in an attempt to claim they keep the 4th commandment?

At the same time they often accuse others of breaking the 9th commandment, in order to make Adventism work.

.
 
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LoveGodsWord

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The first commandment you listed is not the first commandment in the new covenant. The first commandment in the new covenant is shown below.

1 John 3:23-24
This is His commandment, that we believe in the name of His Son Jesus Christ, and love one another, just as He commanded us. The one who keeps His commandments abides in Him, and He in him. We know by this that He abides in us, by the Spirit whom He has given us.

The second commandment is also shown below.

1 John 3:23-24
This is His commandment, that we believe in the name of His Son Jesus Christ, and love one another, just as He commanded us. The one who keeps His commandments abides in Him, and He in him. We know by this that He abides in us, by the Spirit whom He has given us.

Do you keep His commandments?

Love is not separate from obedience to God's law according to the scriptures love is expressed in obedience to Gods' law. This has already been addressed in a detailed scripture response collectively here and here. No one therefore can claim to love God according to the scriptures while knowingly breaking anyone of God's commandments. Do you love your neighbor by lying, stealing committing adultery with their spouse *Romans 13:8-10?
 
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LoveGodsWord

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I am not the one leaving out what John recorded below, which means he knows there are two different sets of commandments.


Joh 15:10 If ye keep my commandments, ye shall abide in my love; even as I have kept my Father's commandments, and abide in his love.


Any unbiased witness would have to admit there are two different sets of commandments above.

John is that unbiased witness, as proven in the Book of 1 John.


.

Addressed in a detailed scripture response here and here. Your response is simply to ignore the scriptures shared with you. Of course you are free to believe and do as you wish as your salvation is between you and God. According to the scriptures though, Love is not separate from Gods' law it is how we express both love to God and our fellow man.

According to the scriptures shown in the linked posts above already...

Jesus says that on the two great commandments of love to God and love to man hang all the law and the prophets in Matthew 22:36-40

Paul agreeing with Jesus says that if we love our neighbor as our self we will not commit adultery with our neighbors spouse, we will not kill or murder our neighbor, we will not steal from our neighbor, we will not lie to our neighbor, and not covet the things our neighbor has and goes on to say that when it says loving our neighbor as our self that is it summing up that love is expressed in obedience to those laws in God's 10 commandment that are our duty of love to our fellow man in Romans 13:8-10.

James also agreeing with both Jesus and Paul talking about the same subject matter as Paul in regards to the royal law of loving our neighbor our our self also links love being expressed as obedience to Gods' law when he says if we have respect to laws we commit sin stating that if we break any one of Gods' 10 commandments we stand guilty before God of sin. Quoting from Gods' 10 commandments using the examples of thou shalt not commit adultery and thou shalt not kill, James says that if we break anyone of them we are transgressors of Gods' law and we will be judged by the law of liberty referring back to loving our neighbor as our self in James 2:8-12.

John agreeing with Jesus, Paul and James showing that no one can claim to know God while breaking God's commandments in 1 John 2:3-4 and 1 John 3:6-9. Sin (breaking God's commandments) according to John is the difference between the children of God and the children of the devil (1 John 2:3-4; Exodus 20:5-6; John 14:15; John 15:10; 2 John 1:6; 1 John 5:2-3; 1 John 3:9-10; 1 John 2:3-4; Revelation 12:17; Revelation 14:12; Revelation 22:14)

.............

Here we have Jesus, Paul, James and John all in agreement that love to God and man is expressed in obedience to Gods' law not by breaking Gods' law for example as posted somewhere else to you..

If we LOVE our neighbour...

* Will we honor our parents?
* Will we not murder?
* Will we not commit adultery with our neighbor's spouse?
* Will we not steal from them?
* Will we not lie to them?
* Will we not covet what they own?

If we LOVE our God...

* Will we not have other Gods?
* Will we not make idols and worship them?
* Will we not take his name [follow] him in vain?
* Will we remember his seventh day Sabbath and keep it holy?

Now if your answer is yes then you agree with me. If your answer is no what kind of love are you talking about where breaking any of Gods' 10 commandments is loving God or loving our fellow man?

..............

Your mistake here is in thinking that love is separate from our actions. According to the scriptures we are saved by grace through faith and not of ourselves it is a gift of God and not of works lest any man should boast *Ephesians 2:8-9 but Gods grace is so we can be obedient to the faith *Romans 1:5. Obedience to God's Law is not how we are saved it is the FRUIT of faith of one that is already been given Gods promise of salvation and the fruit of God's work in us *Philippians 2:13 as we believe and follow his word *John 10:26-27. If our faith has no fruit it is dead *James 2:18-20; 26 and our tree will be cast down and thrown into the fire *Matthew 3:10; 7:19-20; 13:49-50; Hebrews 10:26-27. Therefore we do not abolish God's law through faith like some people teach but God's law is established in the heart by faith that works by love *Romans 3:31; 1 John 5:3-4; Romans 13:8-10. According to the scriptures, sin (breaking God' commandments and not believing and following God's Word) is the difference between the children of God and the children of the devil *1 John 3:6-10; 1 John 2:3-4; Revelation 12:17; Revelation 14:12; Revelation 22:14.

Now what is it in the scriptures shared with you here that you disagree with?
 
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LoveGodsWord

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How many times do members of SDA have to break the 9th commandment, in an attempt to claim they keep the 4th commandment? At the same time they often accuse others of breaking the 9th commandment, in order to make Adventism work..
See Romans 2:1-12. We should not point people to the teachings of men over the Word of God. For me, he must increase and I must decrease. I only point all to the Word of God because it is there we find the one who loves us that we may love him. I know him and am known by him. All that he shows me I see and must show to all because I am blind. He tells me it is those that see that do not see. These are they that have once known him or do not know him. Who am I that he should choose me out of the world? I am no one but he is all. If I did not believe him I would not know him. What can I do without him? He is love and now I love. I follow him now because I love him who first loved me. I do not judge you but His Word will judge us because they are there for all to see. All are welcome to see and hear God's Word, however many are called but few are chosen. Now the Spirit speaks expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils but His Word are promises to deliver us and it is here we must find safety. We ought to obey God rather than man. God is love and he that dwells in love dwells in God. Yet I share Gods Word with you that are not my words but Gods' Word which are true but it seems you do not believe them and neither can you tell me why you do not believe them and neither will you come to the light of Gods' Word to discuss them in fulfillment of the words of Jesus to many in John 3:19-21
 
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BABerean2

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See Romans 2:1-12. We should not point people to the teachings of men over the Word of God. For me, he must increase and I must decrease. I only point all to the Word of God because it is there we find the one who loves us that we may love him. I know him and am known by him. All that he shows me I see and must show to all because I am blind. He tells me it is those that see that do not see. These are they that have once known him or do not know him. Who am I that he should choose me out of the world? I am no one but he is all. If I did not believe him I would not know him. What can I do without him? He is love and now I love. I follow him now because I love him who first loved me. I do not judge you but His Word will judge us because they are there for all to see. All are welcome to see and hear God's Word, however many are called but few are chosen. Now the Spirit speaks expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils but His Word is promises to deliver us and it is here we must find safety. We ought to obey God rather than man. God is love and he that dwells in love dwells in God. Yet I share Gods Word with you that are not my words but Gods' Word which are true but it seems you do not believe them and neither can you tell me why you do not believe them and neither will you come to the light of Gods' Word to discuss them in fulfillment of the words of Jesus to many in John 3:19-21

All man-made doctrines are revealed not by the scripture quoted by its proponents, but rather by the scripture they must ignore to make it work.


How many times have we seen 1 John 2:4 quoted, but 1 John 3:22-24 ignored?

How many times have we seen the Sinai Covenant of "bondage" ignored in Galatians 4:24-31?

How many times have we seen Deuteronomy 5:3 ignored?

.
 
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LoveGodsWord

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All man-made doctrines are revealed not by the scripture quoted by its proponents, but rather by the scripture they must ignore to make it work.


How many times have we seen 1 John 2:4 quoted, but 1 John 3:22-24 ignored?

How many times have we seen the Sinai Covenant of "bondage" ignored in Galatians 4:24-31?

How many times have we seen Deuteronomy 5:3 ignored?

.

With all due respect, no one has ignored the scriptures in the post you cite here. All of your posts have been addressed with a detailed scripture response showing that the contexts you leave out of your interpretation of the scriptures do not support your claims to scripture meaning. So I ask you, is it not you and your friends here that are ignoring the scripture that have only been shared in love and as a help to you?

For example your post here in regards to your claims that love is separate from obedience to God's law has been shown to be in error in a detailed scripture response here and here showing the contexts you leave out of your teachings of lawlessness (without law). According to the scriptures shared with you already, love is not separate to God's law it is expressed in obedience to Gods' law. Your response was to ignore these posts and the scriptures in them that show why your teachings are not biblical.

Jesus says all those who follow the teachings and traditions of men that break the commandments of God are not worshiping God in Matthew 15:3-9. We have already gone through Galatians 4 and 2 Corinthians 3 showing that bondage is to sin (breaking Gods law - 1 John 3:4), condemnation and death (Romans 3:19-20; James 2:10-11; Romans 8:1-4), not being obedient to Gods' law (Romans 6:1-23; 1 John 3:4-9). It is clear from the scriptures you do not know what the old covenant was or the new covenant it points to (Hebrews 8:10-12; from Jeremiah 31:31-34 and Ezekiel 36:24-27; Romans 13:8-10; James 2:8-12; Matthew 22:36-40; 1 John 2:3-4; 1 John 3:4-9).

As shown from the scriptures already, sin (breaking God's commandments) according to John is the difference between the children of God and the children of the devil in 1 John 3:9-10; 1 John 2:3-4; Revelation 12:17; Revelation 14:12; Revelation 22:14. So, who should we believe, God or man? According to the scriptures only God's Word is true and we should believe and follow them over the teachings and traditions of men that break the commandments of God *Romans 3:4; Acts of the Apostles 5:29; Matthew 15:3-9. Now what is it you do not believe in the scriptures shared with you here and if I tell you the truth (John 17:17) why do you not believe me?
 
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klutedavid

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Love is not separate from obedience to God's law according to the scriptures love is expressed in obedience to Gods' law. This has already been addressed in a detailed scripture response collectively here and here. No one therefore can claim to love God according to the scriptures while knowingly breaking anyone of God's commandments.
Are you claiming that the first and greatest commandment is not believing in the name of Jesus Christ?

What is the first commandment, LGW?
 
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klutedavid

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Love is not separate from obedience to God's law according to the scriptures love is expressed in obedience to Gods' law. This has already been addressed in a detailed scripture response collectively here and here. No one therefore can claim to love God according to the scriptures while knowingly breaking anyone of God's commandments.
You are saying the opposite of what the scripture declares.

Romans 3:20
Because by the works of the Law no flesh will be justified in His sight; for through the Law comes the knowledge of sin.

Every time you seek to obey the law, you become aware, that you are a law breaker. That is what the law does, the law grants the knowledge of sin.

We need you to confess your transgression of the law.

Anyone who claims they obey the law is a liar and the truth is not in them.
 
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LoveGodsWord

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Are you claiming that the first and greatest commandment is not believing in the name of Jesus Christ?
What is the first commandment, LGW?

Matthew 22:36-40
[37], Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind.
[38], This is the first and great commandment.
[39], And the second is like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.
[40], On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets.
 
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LoveGodsWord

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LoveGodsWord said: Love is not separate from obedience to God's law according to the scriptures love is expressed in obedience to Gods' law. This has already been addressed in a detailed scripture response collectively here and here. No one therefore can claim to love God according to the scriptures while knowingly breaking anyone of God's commandments.
Your response here...
You are saying the opposite of what the scripture declares. Romans 3:20 Because by the works of the Law no flesh will be justified in His sight; for through the Law comes the knowledge of sin.
No a detailed scripture response collectively here and here shows love is not separate from God's law it is expressed in obedience to Gods' law. What is it you do not believe? We need to be born again into God's new covenant promise through faith before we can walk in Gods' Spirit. The law first must lead us to Christ before we can be justified by faith (Galatians 3:22-25; Galatians 5:16; Romans 3:31; 1 John 5:2-4)
Every time you seek to obey the law, you become aware, that you are a law breaker. That is what the law does, the law grants the knowledge of sin.
Not to those who have been born of God through to walk in the Spirit Spirit of God *1 John 3:6-9 because those who are born of God into God's new covenant promise to love do not practice sin (Hebrews 8:10-12; from Jeremiah 31:31-34; Ezekiel 36:24-27)
Anyone who claims they obey the law is a liar and the truth is not in them.
1 John 2:3-4 [3], And hereby we do know that we know him, if we keep his commandments. [4], He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.

What is it you do not believe?
 
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klutedavid

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Matthew 22:36-40
[37], Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind.
[38], This is the first and great commandment.
[39], And the second is like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.
[40], On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets.
There is a problem with your quotation, LGW.

You cited the verses (Matthew 22:36-40) but only displayed the verses (Matthew 22:37-40).

You omitted verse 36, and here is that verse.

Matthew 22:36
“Teacher, which is the great commandment in the Law?”

You quoted the first and greatest commandment in the law.

I will ask you again.

What is the first commandment, and the greatest commandment ever given to mankind, LGW?
 
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LoveGodsWord

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There is a problem with your quotation, LGW.

You cited the verses (Matthew 22:36-40) but only displayed the verses (Matthew 22:37-40).

You omitted verse 36, and here is that verse.

Matthew 22:36
“Teacher, which is the great commandment in the Law?”

You quoted the first and greatest commandment in the law.

I will ask you again.

What is the first commandment, and the greatest commandment ever given to mankind, LGW?

v36 only supports the scriptures shared with you...

Matthew 22:36-40
[36], Master, which is the great commandment in the law?
[37], Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind.
[38], This is the first and great commandment.
[39], And the second is like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.
[40], On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets.

What is it here you do not believe?
 
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