The will of God ! Are we concerned whether we are doing the will of God ?

This is what we have heard:
For I have come down from heaven, not to do my own will but the will of him who sent me. -John 6:38

And this is the will of him who sent me, that I should lose nothing of all that he has given me, but raise it up on the last day. -John 6:39

For this is the will of my Father, that everyone who looks on the Son and believes in him should have eternal life, and I will raise him up on the last day." -John 6:40

Have we looked on the Son ? Yes, it is the Father of our Lord Jesus Christ that we look on the Son. But why ?

This is also what we have heard :
My eyes are ever toward the LORD, for he will pluck my feet out of the net. -Psalms 25:15

So when we look on the Son, He will pluck our feet from the net.

What net ? This is what we have heard:

But the Scripture imprisoned everything under sin, so that the promise by faith in Jesus Christ might be given to those who believe. -Galatians 3:22

When we who look on the Son, our feet will be pluck out of sin — so that the promise by faith in Jesus Christ might be given to us who believe.

So we can consider that those who look on the Son are those who believe that they will be given the promise by faith in Christ Jesus.

Ramon said:

Something that i have noticed over the years is that we don't ponder much on the second part, He said look at the son and believe in Him. The believe part is the part I'm referring to. We have to believe the message that He brought. The message that Jesus brought shows us where the narrow gate is, how to enter it and how to walk the narrow way. Its just just look, its hear and do.

And why call ye me, Lord, Lord, and do not the things which I say? Luke 6:46

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Dear Ramon,
Is it not look mean to perceive what the Lord have said ?
Is it not to hear mean to understand what the Lord have said to us ?
Is it not to do mean to abide in His words ?

As our Lord Jesus have admonished us:
"STRIVES to ENTER through the NARROW DOOR.

For many, I tell you, will seek to ENTER and will not be able. -Luke 13:24

How do we STRIVE ?
For this very reason, MAKE EVERY EFFORT to supplement your faith with virtue, and virtue with knowledge, -2 Peter 1:5
and knowledge with self-control, and self-control with steadfastness, and steadfastness with godliness, -2 Peter 1:6
and godliness with brotherly affection, and brotherly affection with love. -2 Peter 1:7
For if these qualities are yours and are increasing, they keep you from being ineffective or unfruitful in the knowledge of our Lord Jesus Christ. -2 Peter 1:8
For whoever lacks these qualities is so nearsighted that he is blind, having forgotten that he was cleansed from his former sins. -2 Peter 1:9

Therefore, brothers, be all the more DILIGENT TO CONFIRM your CALLING and ELECTION, for if you practice these qualities you will never fall. -2 Peter 1:10

For in this way there will be richly provided for you an ENTRANCE into the eternal kingdom of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ. -2 Peter 1:11

May God grant us wisdom and strength to strive to enter the NARROW GATE
Hallelujah Amen

Dorothy Mae said:

That is is? The whole idea of doing the will of God is merely to "look upon the son" ...cheap and easy? Why not go farther and look upon what the Son did, how he lived, the choices He made? Why not go farther and live the life He did doing to and for others as he did? Why stop and the cheap "merely look" which costs a man nothng at all? If we really look upon the Son we will do what God wants us to do during our days as the Spirit leads.

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Dear one,
I won’t regard what the Lord have said in John 6: 40 as “cheap”.

This is what we have been taught by apostle Paul:
Let the word of Christ dwell in you RICHLY, teaching and admonishing one another in all wisdom, singing psalms and hymns and spiritual songs, with thankfulness in your hearts to God. -Colossians 3:16

Dear one, I corrected you whom I love, just as God corrected us whom He loves.

Peace be with you.

Ramon said:

You actually didn't correct her, she's right.

Gods will can only be found in the words of Jesus, literally.

He did not speak His own words. John 8:38-42
My teaching is not mine but his who sent me.” (John 7:16)
I have not spoken on my own, but the Father who sent me John 12:49
“…the word you hear is not mine but is from the Father who sent me.” (John 14:24)
For I gave them (Jesus’ disciples) the words you gave me and they accepted them (John 17:8)


The entire premise of the 4 gospels is to deliver Gods will to us trough Christ. Jesus never once said look at me and be saved. Using this logic renders everything else He said pointless.

Jesus said forsake all to be a Christian Luke 14:33 ( its ignored by all )
Pray in secret, nobody does it
Call no man father, nobody does it
give to anyone who asks, nobody does it...


On and on and on do we run to the letters to establish what it means to be a Christian. The new testament is divided into 2 sections, the 4 gospels teach HOW to become a Christian by the words of Jesus and the letters of the apostles are for those who heard Jesus, obeyed everything He said and became Christians and now need instructions on how to proceed forward.


To establish how to become a Christian using the letters is a great error because those letters were not written for unbelievers but the church. Any time you hear an apostle speak of salvation they say what? Believe the gospel, they point people to the 4 gospels.


Dear one, I corrected you whom I love, just as God corrected us whom He loves.

Peace be with you.

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Dear Ramon,
I thank you that you agree for peaceful discussion.

May be you missed what has been said in John 6:40; this what has been said by our dear Lord :

For this is the will of my Father, that everyone who looks on the Son and believes in him should have eternal life, and I will raise him up on the last day." -John 6:40

Isn’t the Son our Lord Jesus Christ Himself?

Peace be with you.

aiki said:

An interesting OP, Santoso. I've got a few questions:



What does it mean, exactly, to "look on the Son"? If you were speaking to a brand-new Christian, how would you explain this phrase? How does one "look on the Son"?



A net speaks of being trapped, ensnared and bound by something. Why do you think Galatians 3:22 is what the Psalmist was thinking of when he wrote what he did in Psalms 25:15?



And what is the "promise by faith in Jesus Christ," exactly? How is it given to the believing person? By what means does a person obtain the effect of the promise in Christ? What will the effect of receiving the promise be, precisely?

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Dear Aiki,
Let me answer your questions in 2 replies. If I miss answering them, I gladly discuss with you in subsequent replies. May grace and peace of God be ours through the knowledge of God and of Jesus Christ our Lord.

Dear Aiki, we heard the Lord have said about net when He shared with us the parable of the net or dragnet in Matthew 13:47-50
Let me share what I have come to understand and perceive from the parable that the Lord told us. Then you will understand why I relate Psalms 25:15 and Galatians 3:22 ?

Please bear with me, as the Lord gave me wisdom and understanding to understand and perceive what He has said in Matthew 13:47-50.

The Parable of the Dragnet
Matthew 13:47-50
This is what we have heard:

47 "Again, the kingdom of heaven is like a net that was thrown into the sea and gathered fish of every kind. 48 When it was full, men drew it ashore and sat down and sorted the good into containers but threw away the bad. 49 So it will be at the end of the age. The angels will come out and separate the evil from the righteous 50 and throw them into the fiery furnace. In that place there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.

The parable of the Dragnet seems quite obvious as if the Lord explains the parable together with the meaning.

Since it is still parable, we need to seek to hear or understand and see or perceive.

This is what we have heard:

And he said to them, "Pay attention to what you hear: with the measure you use, it will be measured to you, and still more will be added to you. -Mark 4:24

So, what we can understand about this parable and more.

Since the Lord says,” "Again, the kingdom of heaven is like a net that was thrown into the sea and gathered fish of every kind. “

We can understand that this parable is related with others that He has spoken.

We can consider the one who has thrown the net into the sea was Son of Man.

What we can understand about the sea ? This is what we have heard:

You make mankind like the fish of the sea, like crawling things that have no ruler. -Habakkuk 1:14

So, we can perceive that the net that was thrown into the sea was the net was thrown into mankind whom the Lord make like the fish of the sea.

Also, we heard in the parable :

When it was full,.... So it will be at the end of the age.

So this is what we have heard:

But when the fullness of time had come, God sent forth His Son, born of woman, born under the law,

to redeem those who were under the law, so that we might receive adoption as sons.

And because you are sons, God has sent the Spirit of His Son into our hearts, crying, "Abba! Father!"

So you are no longer a slave, but a son, and if a son, then an heir through God. -Galatians 4:4-7

From here, we can understand those who were born, were under the law.

This is what we have heard what the law says to those who are under the law :

Now we know that whatever the law says it speaks to those who are under the law, so that every mouth may be stopped, and the whole world may be held accountable to God. -Romans 3:19

Thus, we can determine that the net that was thrown into the sea and gathered fish of every kind was the law.

Did the good fish and bad fish born under the law ? Yes

This is what we have heard:

That which is born of the flesh is flesh, and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit. -John 3:6

Does this mean the good fish and bad fish born under different law ?
Yes

This is what we have heard:

Then what becomes of our boasting? It is excluded. By what kind of law? By a law of works? No, but by the law of faith. -Romans 3:27

For we hold that one is justified by faith apart from works of the law. -Romans 3:28

Or is God the God of Jews only? Is he not the God of Gentiles also? Yes, of Gentiles also, -Romans 3:29

since God is one'who will justify the circumcised by faith and the uncircumcised through faith. -Romans 3:30

Do we then overthrow the law by this faith? By no means! On the contrary, we uphold the law. -Romans 3:31

Here we can understand that the good fish are under the law of faith, while the bad fish are under the law of works.

Is the law then contrary to the promises of God? Certainly not! For if a law had been given that could give life, then righteousness would indeed be by the law. -Galatians 3:21

But the Scripture imprisoned everything under sin, so that the promise by faith in Jesus Christ might be given to those who believe. -Galatians 3:22

As the net imprison the fish, so the those under law of works or the law of works of sin or law of sin were imprisoned as slaves of sin but those under law of faith were imprisoned as slaves of righteousness by faith in Christ Jesus.

That is why we heard this :

There is therefore now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus. -Romans 8:1

For the law of the Spirit of life has set you free in Christ Jesus from the law of sin and death. -Romans 8:2

For God has done what the law, weakened by the flesh ( that is law of sin and death ), could not do. By sending His own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh and for sin, He condemned sin in the flesh, -Romans 8:3

in order that the righteous requirement of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not according to the flesh but according to the Spirit. -Romans 8:4

Here, we can understand that the good fish or the righteous saints who are not condemned in union with Christ Jesus by faith.

But the bad fish or the evildoers are condemned by being thrown into the fiery furnace where there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth. For they did not believe
the promise given by faith in Christ Jesus.

For the righteous requirement of the law of Spirit of life are fulfilled in those who walk according to the Holy Spirit.

In other words, the good fish swim according to the Spirit while the bad fish swim according to the flesh.

Let us heed this admonition:

For since the message declared by angels proved to be reliable, and every transgression or disobedience received a just retribution, -Hebrews 2:2

how shall we escape if we neglect such a great salvation? It was declared at first by the Lord, and it was attested to us by those who heard, -Hebrews 2:3

while God also bore witness by signs and wonders and various miracles and by gifts of the Holy Spirit distributed according to His will. -Hebrews 2:4

Again, the kingdom of heaven is like a law that was given to mankind and gathered people of every kind.

Let the Word of Messiah in all its richness dwell in us.
Let overflowing thanksgiving be given through our Lord Jesus Christ to God,
Glorifying His wonderful name.

aiki said:

An interesting OP, Santoso. I've got a few questions:



What does it mean, exactly, to "look on the Son"? If you were speaking to a brand-new Christian, how would you explain this phrase? How does one "look on the Son"?



A net speaks of being trapped, ensnared and bound by something. Why do you think Galatians 3:22 is what the Psalmist was thinking of when he wrote what he did in Psalms 25:15?



And what is the "promise by faith in Jesus Christ," exactly? How is it given to the believing person? By what means does a person obtain the effect of the promise in Christ? What will the effect of receiving the promise be, precisely?

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Dear Aiki,

You have asked :
“What does it mean, exactly, to "look on the Son"? If you were speaking to a brand-new Christian, how would you explain this phrase? How does one "look on the Son"?”

This is how I would explain. This is what we have heard what our Lord have said :

Indeed, in their case the prophecy of Isaiah is fulfilled that says: "'"You will indeed hear but never understand, and you will indeed see but never perceive." -Matthew 13:14

If we really heard what our Lord have said, we should understand. If we have seen what our Lord have said, then we should perceive.

So when our Lord said :
For this is the will of my Father, that everyone who looks on the Son and believes in him should have eternal life, and I will raise him up on the last day." -John 6:40

That means :
That everyone who look on the Son is “That everyone who perceive what our Lord have said”
———————————————————————
Then, you asked:
“A net speaks of being trapped, ensnared and bound by something. Why do you think Galatians 3:22 is what the Psalmist was thinking of when he wrote what he did in Psalms 25:15?

Dear Aiki,
This is what we have heard:
My eyes are ever toward the LORD, for he will pluck my feet out of the net. -Psalms 25:15

Doesn’t our Lord told us to look on Him in John 6:40? Also, this is also said about our Lord:

He is the radiance of the glory of God and the exact imprint of his nature, and he upholds the universe by the word of his power. After making purification for sins, he sat down at the right hand of the Majesty on high, -Hebrews 1:3

So when we look on the Lord, He will
free or pluck our feet out of the net.

Since we have heard:
But the Scripture imprisoned everything under sin, so that the promise by faith in Jesus Christ might be given to those who believe. -Galatians 3:22

As I have mentioned in my previous reply, the law, imprison the fish of every kind or people of every kind— that is the law of sin.

So when we perceived what our Lord have said, He freed us out of the law of sin.

So what do we perceive, that is, this is what we have heard:

Jesus answered him, "Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born again he cannot see the kingdom of God." -John 3:3

Yes, we perceived that we need to be born again, that we may perceive what our Lord have said about the kingdom of God.

———————————————————————

Dear Aiki,you asked :
“And what is the "promise by faith in Jesus Christ," exactly? How is it given to the believing person? By what means does a person obtain the effect of the promise in Christ? What will the effect of receiving the promise be, precisely?”

The promise by faith in Christ is the promise by faith in union with Christ.
For this is what we have heard:

making known to us the mystery of His will, according to His purpose, which He ( God the Father ) set forth in Christ -Ephesians 1:9
as a plan for the fullness of time, to unite all things in Him,
things in heaven and things on earth. -Ephesians 1:10

The plan, purpose, and will of the Father of our Lord Jesus Christ is to unite all things in Christ, things in heaven and things on earth.

How is this promise given to a believing person, you ask?

Do we not hear that is said in John 6:40:

For this is the will of my Father, that everyone who looks on the Son and believes in him should have eternal life, and I will raise him up on the last day." -John 6:40

So our Lord have said to a believing person:
that everyone who perceive what He has said and believe in Him.

What is it mean to believe in Christ? this is what we have heard:

Whoever believes in the Son has eternal life; whoever does not obey the Son shall not see life, but the wrath of God remains on him. -John 3:36

Don’t we see the parentheses? The sentence after the parentheses explain what the first parentheses have said.

So those who are considered to believe in Christ are those who obey Christ; they shall have eternal life.

What does it mean to obey Christ? This is what we have heard:
assuming that you have heard about Him and were taught in Him, as the truth is in Jesus, -Ephesians 4:21

So we who have heard about Christ, should understand that we were taught in union with Him. Therefore, we are to understand and perceive that we are to obey what we are taught in union with Christ.

So you ask what is the means of obtaining effect of the promise by faith in Christ ? This, we have heard in Roman 6:16-24.

In sum, this is what we have heard:
But now that you have been set free from sin and have become slaves of God, the fruit you get leads to sanctification and its end, eternal life. -Romans 6:22

So the effect of the promise by faith in Christ is “the free gift of God, that is, eternal life in union with Christ.

As our Lord Himself have said to the Father:
that they may all be one, just as you, Father, are in me, and I in you, that they also may be in us, so that the world may believe that you have sent me. -John 17:21

aiki said:

Okay. Was this what the Psalmist had in mind, though, when he wrote what he did in Psalms 25:15? Do you think it is important to take into account what the Psalmist meant when he wrote what he did?

Is the mere use of the word "net" enough to connect Psalms 25:15 directly to Matthew 13:47-50 and Galatians 3:22? Are you dealing honestly with the intent of the Psalmist when you connect his words on this basis to the words of Christ spoken many centuries later in a very different context?

The Psalmist seems to be speaking of a general principle of God's care: The Lord will keep the Psalmist from being ensnared in the "net" of trouble (from enemies, typically). Jesus, however, is speaking of a net, not of trouble, but of divine judgment and separation, the righteous from the wicked. Can you see, then, why these two passages aren't speaking of the same thing, though they both use the word "net"?



Doesn't Jesus indicate what the parable is about? He says it is about the kingdom of God (vs.47), the separation of the righteous and the wicked (vs. 49), and their final judgment (vs. 50). When Jesus does this, when he explains his meaning so clearly, is it really appropriate to try to insinuate further meaning into his words? Isn't this eisegesis?



Is this what Jesus meant? Did he mean that one could consider his parables and draw from them things not actually stated in them, adding to his meaning? I'm not so sure. Jesus says more will be added to those who hear, but aren't you making an unwarranted leap to think he means that there is some hidden, secret meaning to his words that can't be understood from the plain, straightforward sense of them? Where does this sort of thinking halt? Can't we all just begin to stretch and add to Christ's words as we like, justifying doing so by claiming that God has given us "extra insight"? Isn't this a sure way to false teaching and heresy? What boundaries limit this "extra insight" stuff?



What Jesus said in Matthew 13:47-50 was offered in the midst of a stream of parables given immediately before and after the parable of the fish in the net. "Again" indicates that Jesus is offering yet another parable to the ones he'd already offered.

Why can we think the one who has thrown the net is the Son of Man. Jesus doesn't say this, does he?

Matthew 13:47
47 “Again, the kingdom of heaven is like a net that was thrown into the sea and gathered fish of every kind.



Hmmm...What is the point of Habakkuk's fish simile? If you read on, he explains that he is speaking of God's judgment. God is like a fisherman who catches fish with hook and net, living well off of his efforts.

Habakkuk 1:15-16
15 He brings all of them up with a hook; he drags them out with his net; he gathers them in his dragnet; so he rejoices and is glad.
16 Therefore he sacrifices to his net and makes offerings to his dragnet; for by them he lives in luxury, and his food is rich.

Habakkuk asks if God will act the fisherman in His judgment forever, catching men and destroying them endlessly.

Habakkuk 1:17
17 Is he then to keep on emptying his net and mercilessly killing nations forever?

At this point, it seems to me we've wandered a very long way from the Psalmist's words in Psalms 25:15, don't you think? I'm not seeing any relationship to the Psalmist's words now at all in the Scripture you're attempting to relate to it. In fact, Habakkuk is speaking of the exact opposite of the Psalmist. Habakkuk is describing God's lethal judgment where the Psalmist was commenting on God's protective care! But, by focusing on one word - net (or dragnet) - you've linked them as though they are talking about the same thing. Have I misunderstood your line of reasoning? Can you see mine?



Um, here, too, you've leap-frogged between verses on the basis of a single word: full (fullness).

Matthew 13:47-48
47 “Again, the kingdom of heaven is like a net that was thrown into the sea and gathered fish of every kind.
48 When it was full, men drew it ashore and sat down and sorted the good into containers but threw away the bad.

Galatians 4:4-6
4 But when the fullness of time had come, God sent forth his Son, born of woman, born under the law,
5 to redeem those who were under the law, so that we might receive adoption as sons.
6 And because you are sons, God has sent the Spirit of his Son into our hearts, crying, “Abba! Father!”

In the passage in Matthew, the "net" (God's kingdom) is full of fish (people). In the passage in Galatians, the "fullness of time" is an expression meaning, "at the right, or appointed, time." The former passage is referring to the people in God's kingdom, the latter passage to the fulfillment of divine prophecy. Why link these two passages together directly when they are speaking of totally different things? Can you see the problem with this word-association approach to Scripture?

I appreciate the peaceful and sincere approach you take in your posts, Santoso. It's quite pleasant. But I think there are some...difficulties in the way you've been going at understanding God's word. Can I suggest a book to you? It's called "How To Read the Bible for All It's Worth" by Gordon D. Fee and Douglas Stuart. It's a really good primer on Bible hermeneutics and may be of much use to you as you chew on God's word. Give it a look!

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Dear Aiki,
We were reminded not to strive about words to no profit, to the ruin of the hearers.

And we are told to be diligent to present ourselves approved to God, a worker who does not need to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth, as we have heard in 2 Timothy 2:14-15 NKJV

Dear Aiki, I understand that you are concerned what the psalmist have in mind. But this is what I have heard:

All Scripture is breathed out by God and profitable for teaching, for reproof, for correction, and for training in righteousness, -2 Timothy 3:16

So I do consider the psalms that the psalmist have written, are breathed out by God and what I have taught, reproved, corrected and trained others are not only profitable to them, inasmuch to me.

Dear Aiki, consider what our Lord have said about the psalm 82:

The Jews picked up stones again to stone him. -John 10:31
Jesus answered them, "I have shown you many good works from the Father; for which of them are you going to stone me?" -John 10:32
The Jews answered him, "It is not for a good work that we are going to stone you but for blasphemy, because you, being a man, make yourself God." -John 10:33
Jesus answered them, "Is it not written in your Law, 'I said, you are gods'? -John 10:34
If he called them gods to whom the word of God came'and Scripture cannot be broken' -John 10:35
do you say of him whom the Father consecrated and sent into the world, 'You are blaspheming,' because I said, 'I am the Son of God'? -John 10:36

So dear Aiki, would you consider what the Lord have said is in different context to what the psalmist have in mind and have written the psalms ? Didn’t our Lord spoke many centuries later after the psalmist? Do the Lord make unwarranted leap to the psalmist’s words that can't be understood from the plain, straightforward sense of them? Are you also considering that the Lord just begin to stretch and add to God’s words as He like, justifying doing so by claiming that God has given him "extra insight"? Aren’t you considering that I have given way to false teaching and heresy?; Just like the Pharisees considered Jesus for blasphemy.

Dear Aiki,
This is what we have heard:
But now we are released from the law, having died to that which held us captive, so that we serve in the new way of the Spirit and not in the old way of the written code. -Romans 7:6

So when I have spoken my previous replies, I have served in the new way of the Spirit and not in the old way of the written code.

Dear Aiki,
Aren’t the good fish in the parable of the dragnet under God’s protective care ? Aren’t the bad fish in the same parable under God’s judgement?

Dear Aiki, I understand that you see this word-association approach to Scripture as a problem but you must understand what our Lord have said “Scripture cannot be broken”.

Dear Aiki, thank you for your good intent to recommend those books.

But this is what I consider that I have heard apostle Paul:

Follow the pattern of the sound words that you have heard from me, in the faith and love that are in Christ Jesus. -2 Timothy 1:13
By the Holy Spirit who dwells within us, guard the good deposit entrusted to you. -2 Timothy 1:14

So the good things that have been committed to me by apostles, that is, the pattern of sound words that apostles have spoken. I have kept by the Holy Spirit who dwells in me.

Dear Aiki, my previous reply have said to you, I say again, may grace and peace be ours through the knowledge of God and our Lord Jesus Christ, as this I have affirmed according to what apostle Peter has said in 2 Peter 1:2.
That has been my intention.

So dear Aiki, let us abide by this truth:
If we live by the Spirit, let us also keep in step with the Spirit. -Galatians 5:25
Let us not become conceited, provoking one another, envying one another. -Galatians 5:26

Minister Monardo said:

A direct scriptural reference being made to the One True God who saves.
Isaiah 45:
21 Tell ye, and bring them near; yea, let them take counsel together: who hath declared
this from ancient time? who hath told it from that time? have not I the Lord? and there is
no God else beside me; a just God and a Savior; there is none beside me.
22 Look unto me, and be ye saved, all the ends of the earth: for I am God, and there is none else.
23 I have sworn by myself, the word is gone out of my mouth in righteousness, and shall not return, That unto me every knee shall bow, every tongue shall swear.
24 Surely, shall one say, in the Lord have I righteousness and strength: even to him shall men come; and all that are incensed against him shall be ashamed.
25 In the Lord shall all the seed of Israel be justified, and shall glory.

John 3:14 And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must
the Son of Man be lifted up.

John 12:
32 And I, if I am lifted up from the earth, will draw all peoples to Myself.
33 This He said, signifying by what death He would die.

Galatians 2:20 I have been crucified with Christ; it is no longer I who live, but Christ lives in me;
and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by faith in the Son of God, who loved me and gave Himself for me.

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Interesting ! what has been said Isaiah 45:21-25 has that parallel reference to what has been said in John 6:40.
I like what you quoted. I will meditate.

aiki said:

Goodness! Is that what you think I'm doing? Yikes.



Which is exactly why I wrote to you what I did.



I am concerned that without taking his view of what he wrote, understanding what he had in mind as he wrote, that false ideas about his words may result.



Yes. Glad to hear it.



I'm not sure that what I wrote to you has been understood. When I wrote of "context," I meant the time, culture, religious understanding, literature type and intent out of which the Psalmist wrote. These things all have some bearing upon how we understand his meaning and connect it to other passages of Scripture. The mere presence of the same (or similar) word in two different passages is not sufficient reason to link them directly to each other. I demonstrated to you why but you seem either to be ignoring what I pointed out, or don't understand what I pointed out (or both).

Are you thinking that what you've done with Scripture is the same as what Jesus did with Psalms 82? First off, he didn't link Psalms 82 with another passage of Scripture simply on the basis of a word that appears in both. Instead, Jesus applies the words of the Psalmist to the situation he's in with the Jews who think he's been blasphemous. Jesus also does not make an assertion about the "you are gods" quotation from Psalms 82, offering some new doctrine from it, but from the Psalmist's words merely asks a confounding question.

In contrast, you are taking words in passages totally unrelated to each other in a variety of ways and linking them solely on the basis of the appearance of a word (or phrase) common to them. As I showed you, however, this leads - at it did in your case - to connecting together passages that are speaking of opposite things, not the same thing! This is a very dangerous practice, leading inevitably to false doctrine.



Jesus did not stretch Scripture or its meaning. He applied an OT passage to his situation and asked a question from it. Jesus didn't add anything to the Psalmist's words!

I think that the word-jumping strategy you're following in understanding Scripture will, sooner or later, lead you straight into false doctrine. As a brother in the Lord, I am obliged to point this out to you. Not to shame or hurt you but to encourage you to sound interpretation of God's word.



But you are speaking about the "written code" from the "written code." In fact, you do so above.

We are to fulfill the spirit of the law, which is greater, more demanding, actually, than the mere letter of the law, but we are not free to handle Scripture (which is far more than just the law) in the highly subjective and dangerous way that you have been.



What does this mean, though? Does it mean you can link up Scripture any way you like and it will always make sense and be true? This is called proof-texting and has led over the years to some very terrible contortions of Christian faith. It is Scripture as it is given, not as you shape it to be, that cannot be broken.



Did Paul leave it up to Timothy to take his words any way he liked? Did he leave it up to Timothy to form his own, new ideas about the faith and call it "deeper truth"? NO.

2 Timothy 1:13 (NASB)
13 Retain the standard of sound words which you have heard from me, in the faith and love which are in Christ Jesus.

It wasn't Timothy's own novel notions about Paul's doctrines and Scripture that Timothy was to retain. Paul restricted Timothy to the teaching he had been given from Paul.

2 Timothy 2:2 (NASB)
2 The things which you have heard from me in the presence of many witnesses, entrust these to faithful men who will be able to teach others also.

Was Timothy to entrust to faithful men his own ideas about the faith? No. He was to pass on to faithful men the teaching he received (heard) from Paul.



Brother, where does Paul do as you are doing, word-associating Scripture out of context? You are to understand and preserve the doctrine of Scripture, not construct special "deeper" truth out of your own connections of unrelated verses and passages.



I know you mean well, Santoso. Your sincerity is evident in your posts. It is because you seem to genuinely want to share God's truth that I bother to write the words to you that I have. I am - though it might not seem like it - actually trying to help you in fulfilling this desire well.



Santoso, I come to you as a long-time teacher of God's word, the grandson of a pastor, the son of a pastor, the brother of a pastor, well-schooled in the truth of the faith from an early age. I am an elder and discipler at my church. It is not from conceit or from a desire to be argumentative that I write to you but as one who desires to equip men to teach and live God's word well. We live in an age where the Church is in very dire straights. Men like yourself who have a strong and sincere desire to know and teach God's word are increasingly rare. As a senior brother in the faith I want to assist you, not merely criticize how you are handling Scripture. I'm sorry if I come off in print as conceited, but what you think is conceit is actually, I believe, just a deep conviction of the truth of what I share and an equally deep desire to see Christ's Bride made pure and beautiful through men like you.

Peace, brother.

I will write no more to you.

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Dear Aiki,
When I said “We were reminded not to strive about words to no profit, to the ruin of the hearers”, it is not even in my mind or heart to accuse or belittle you in any way. I said that we need to be MINDFUL of what we have been taught by apostle Paul. If I have caused you to be offended, forgive me; for I didn’t know that I said could be perceived differently than what I intended.

Dear Aiki,
When I quoted you 2 Timothy 2:14-15 saying about rightly dividing the word of truth, let me elaborate further so that you will not misunderstand me. Before I clarify to you what I have said, I let you know that I heard what you have said.

Dear Aiki, you seem to be concerned that I do not consider what the Psalmist have in mind and whether I did what the Psalmist meant when he wrote what he did.

Yes, I heard you said :
“Is the mere use of the word "net" enough to connect Psalms 25:15 directly to Matthew 13:47-50 and Galatians 3:22? Are you dealing honestly with the intent of the Psalmist when you connect his words on this basis to the words of Christ spoken many centuries later in a very different context?

The Psalmist seems to be speaking of a general principle of God's care: The Lord will keep the Psalmist from being ensnared in the "net" of trouble (from enemies, typically). Jesus, HOWEVER, is speaking of a net, not of trouble, but of divine judgment and separation, the righteous from the wicked. Can you see, then, why these two passages aren't speaking of the same thing, though they both use the word "net"?”

Yes, I heard what you pointed out:
I'm not sure that what I wrote to you has been understood. When I wrote of "context," I meant the time, culture, religious understanding, literature type and intent out of which the Psalmist wrote. These things all have some bearing upon how we understand his meaning and connect it to other passages of Scripture. The mere presence of the same (or similar) word in two different passages is not sufficient reason to link them directly to each other. I demonstrated to you why but you seem either to be ignoring what I pointed out, or don't understand what I pointed out (or both).

Dear Aiki,
This is what we have heard our Lord have said:
Then he said to them, "These are my words that I spoke to you while I was still with you, that EVERYTHING written about me in the Law of Moses and the Prophets and the Psalms must be fulfilled." -Luke 24:44

dear Aiki,
Shouldn’t I consider what the Psalmist have in mind is that everything written in the Psalms are about our Lord Jesus Christ that must be fulfilled? Yes, we should.

So when I consider everything written by the Psalmists about the Lord that must be fulfilled!
Was I writing out of the context that you mentioned?

The Psalmist have said :
My eyes are ever toward the LORD, for He will pluck my feet out of the net. -Psalms 25:15

So when our Lord have said that these are His words that EVERYTHING written about Him in the Psalms must be fulfilled.

And the Lord shared about the parable of the net when He have said :
"Again, the kingdom of heaven is like a net that was thrown into the sea and gathered fish of every kind. -Matthew 13:47

Was I wrong to associate the word ‘net’ that the Psalmist have written in Psalms 25:15 to what the Lord have said in Matthew 13:47 ?

Yes, I did mention Galatians 3:22, that said:
But the Scripture IMPRISONED EVERYTHING UNDER SIN, so that the promise by faith in Jesus Christ might be given to those who believe. -Galatians 3:22

Likewise, we heard:
Now before faith came, we were held captive UNDER THE LAW, IMPRISONED until the coming faith would be revealed. -Galatians 3:23

Dear Aiki, consider what apostle Paul have said before faith came, we together with the psalmists were held captive, imprisoned under the law of sin. Does not the net held people of every kind captive and imprisoned under the law of sin? It does.

Dear Aiki, you perceived partly when you said:
“The Lord will keep the Psalmist from being ensnared in the "net" of trouble (from enemies, typically). Jesus, HOWEVER, is speaking of a net, not of trouble, but of divine judgment and separation, the righteous from the wicked.”

Dear Aiki,
the law of sin, or the net NOT ONLY ensnare people with troubles from the enemies but also divine judgement when people didn’t repent and that the law of sin make people separated from God’s grace that is in Christ Jesus.

That is why apostle Paul have written:
So then, the law was our guardian until Christ came, in order that we might be justified by faith. -Galatians 3:24

So what the Psalmist have written everything about the Lord that must be FULFILLED, that Christ came, in order that, we might be justified by faith.

That is why apostle Paul have elaborated:
In the same way we also, when we were children, were enslaved to the elementary principles of the world. -Galatians 4:3
But when the fullness of time had come, God sent forth his Son, born of woman, born under the law, -Galatians 4:4
to REDEEM those who were under the law, so that we might receive adoption as sons. -Galatians 4:5

So dear Aiki,
our Lord came to redeem us all who were born of a woman, born under the law of sin, that is, the net that the Lord have spoken in the parable of the net, in order that we might receive adoption as sons of God by faith in Christ Jesus.

So dear Aiki,
Do you still considered me that I spoke out a different doctrine? Did I try to put you in bondage by what I have said ? Didn’t I hear the strong admonition that apostle Paul have said in Galatians 1:8-9 ? do I speak to please men or seek the approval of men ? For I consider myself a bond servant of Christ.