Remember when it was a 'conspiracy theory'?

civilwarbuff · May 27, 2021

A short stroll down memory lane.....

Remember what Trump claimed about covid-19?
Coronavirus: Trump stands by China lab origin theory for virus

Remember MSM's and the 'scientific community' response?
Ignore the conspiracy theories: scientists know Covid-19 wasn't created in a lab | Peter Daszak
"Suggestions that Covid-19 is a manmade virus are the latest chapter in a tale of blame, misinformation and finger-pointing. Cue the conspiracy theorists, marching out their narrative about the high-security BSL-4 lab in Wuhan, where mysterious experiments to design “frankenviruses” led to the tragic global pandemic."
Scientists Are Tired of Explaining Why The COVID-19 Virus Was Not Made in a Lab

And today.....
Facebook Reverses on Banning Lab Virus Theory
Fauci admits COVID-19 could have come from Wuhan lab, butts heads with Rand Paul
Theories COVID-19 created in lab 'remain viable' says group of 18 leading scientists

The music is similar but man have the lyrics changed......

Comments/thoughts?

GoldenBoy89 · May 27, 2021

You mean it wasn’t a Democrat hoax?

Maria Billingsley · May 27, 2021

civilwarbuff said:
A short stroll down memory lane.....

Remember what Trump claimed about covid-19?
Coronavirus: Trump stands by China lab origin theory for virus

Remember MSM's and the 'scientific community' response?
Ignore the conspiracy theories: scientists know Covid-19 wasn't created in a lab | Peter Daszak
"Suggestions that Covid-19 is a manmade virus are the latest chapter in a tale of blame, misinformation and finger-pointing. Cue the conspiracy theorists, marching out their narrative about the high-security BSL-4 lab in Wuhan, where mysterious experiments to design “frankenviruses” led to the tragic global pandemic."
Scientists Are Tired of Explaining Why The COVID-19 Virus Was Not Made in a Lab

And today.....
Facebook Reverses on Banning Lab Virus Theory
Fauci admits COVID-19 could have come from Wuhan lab, butts heads with Rand Paul
Theories COVID-19 created in lab 'remain viable' says group of 18 leading scientists

The music is similar but man have the lyrics changed......

Comments/thoughts?

There should be a distinction. The lab was working on the two previous Sars viruses from early 2003 and 2013 caused by bats.These scientist's became sick while doing research probably due to a broken protocol. Trump claimed that the virus was artificially made in the lab. Big difference. Nevertheless, getting to the truth is what we all want.

civilwarbuff · May 27, 2021

Pro and Con arguments.......
Experts weigh in on the Wuhan lab leak hypothesis

civilwarbuff · May 27, 2021

Something I was not aware of until I did a search.....This is an opinion article but my point is excerpted below......
Wuhan has two labs where we know bats and humans interacted. One is the Institute of Virology, eight miles from the wet market; the other is the Wuhan Center for Disease Control and Prevention, barely 300 yards from the market.

Both labs collect live animals to study viruses.

Opinion | Coronavirus and the Laboratories in Wuhan

Brihaha · May 27, 2021

It's still merely a theory. Nearly 600,000 Americans lost their lives so I doubt it matters to them from whence it came. Does its origins change anything? Perhaps America may defund Chinese medical research but what else changes?

whatbogsends · May 27, 2021

GoldenBoy89 said:
You mean it wasn’t a Democrat hoax?

I know your post is tongue-in-cheek/sarcastic, but there absolutely was a coverup/propoganda campaign waged by the mainstream media and international health organizations to silence any inquiry regarding potential origin in a lab.

This is an article from the Washington Post yesterday, which summarizes it, albeit still doesn't talk about how dishonest it was for people to characterize the lab theory as "conspiracy theory" when the real origin was actually unknown.

Some highlights:

July 4 (2020): The Times of London reports that a virus 96 percent identical to the coronavirus that causes covid-19 was found in an abandoned copper mine in China in 2012. The bat-infested copper mine in southwestern China was home to a coronavirus that left six men sick with pneumonia, with three eventually dying, after they had been tasked with shoveling bat guano out of the mine. This virus was collected in 2013 and then stored and studied at WIV.

March 22(2021): The Australian newspaper reports: “Wuhan Institute of Virology researchers working on coronaviruses were hospitalized with symptoms consistent with covid-19 in early November 2019 in what U.S. officials suspect could have been the first cluster.”

Timeline: How the Wuhan lab-leak theory suddenly became credible

It's becoming increasingly clear that they're backtracking from their original narrative because the most likely scenario is actually a lab accident. It was reported in March of this year that Wuhan Institute of Virology researches had been hospitalized with Covid-like symptoms back in November 2019.

Back in July 2020, it was known that the WIV was storing/working with coronavirus samples which match 96% to Covid-19.

Yet as recently as a few weeks ago, posters on these forums - all liberals - were still calling the possibility it was released from a lab "conspiracy theory", because the MSM and Fauci were still propagating that narrative.

In that same thread, an article by Nicholas Wade was presented - the overwhelming response by the left was "why should we listen to Nicholas Wade"?

Well, the Washington Post seems to think we should listen to him. From that same article:

May 5: Former New York Times science reporter Nicholas Wade, writing in the Bulletin of the Atomic Scientists, reviews the evidence and makes a strong case for the lab-leak theory. He focuses in particular on the furin cleavage site, which increases viral infectivity for human cells. His analysis yields this quote from David Baltimore, a virologist and former president of the California Institute of Technology: “When I first saw the furin cleavage site in the viral sequence, with its arginine codons, I said to my wife it was the smoking gun for the origin of the virus. These features make a powerful challenge to the idea of a natural origin for SARS2.”

I highlighted that those who were at the forefront of dismissing the lab theory of the origin of Covid were those who were performing/funding Gain of Function research in Wuhan, and, as such, were potentially culpable. Of course those same folks that derided the lab theory as "conspiracy" didn't hesitate to label such information as nonsense or unimportant.

DamianWarS · May 27, 2021

civilwarbuff said:
A short stroll down memory lane.....

Remember what Trump claimed about covid-19?
Coronavirus: Trump stands by China lab origin theory for virus

Remember MSM's and the 'scientific community' response?
Ignore the conspiracy theories: scientists know Covid-19 wasn't created in a lab | Peter Daszak
"Suggestions that Covid-19 is a manmade virus are the latest chapter in a tale of blame, misinformation and finger-pointing. Cue the conspiracy theorists, marching out their narrative about the high-security BSL-4 lab in Wuhan, where mysterious experiments to design “frankenviruses” led to the tragic global pandemic."
Scientists Are Tired of Explaining Why The COVID-19 Virus Was Not Made in a Lab

And today.....
Facebook Reverses on Banning Lab Virus Theory
Fauci admits COVID-19 could have come from Wuhan lab, butts heads with Rand Paul
Theories COVID-19 created in lab 'remain viable' says group of 18 leading scientists

The music is similar but man have the lyrics changed......

Comments/thoughts?

It really doesn't matter, made in a lab or in the wild the results are the same and our response to it should be the same. I see people talk about it being made in a lab like it empowers them to act irresponsibly which makes no sense. Trump is not the most reliable guy with information and he tends to be motivated by things other than facts. He also is not a scientist so any comments he says without scientific backing at the time he said it would be unsubstantiated.

mnorian · May 27, 2021

civilwarbuff said:
A short stroll down memory lane.....

Remember what Trump claimed about covid-19?
Coronavirus: Trump stands by China lab origin theory for virus

Remember MSM's and the 'scientific community' response?
Ignore the conspiracy theories: scientists know Covid-19 wasn't created in a lab | Peter Daszak
"Suggestions that Covid-19 is a manmade virus are the latest chapter in a tale of blame, misinformation and finger-pointing. Cue the conspiracy theorists, marching out their narrative about the high-security BSL-4 lab in Wuhan, where mysterious experiments to design “frankenviruses” led to the tragic global pandemic."
Scientists Are Tired of Explaining Why The COVID-19 Virus Was Not Made in a Lab

And today.....
Facebook Reverses on Banning Lab Virus Theory
Fauci admits COVID-19 could have come from Wuhan lab, butts heads with Rand Paul
Theories COVID-19 created in lab 'remain viable' says group of 18 leading scientists

The music is similar but man have the lyrics changed......

Comments/thoughts?

Here is a video made by two westerners that lived in China at the time. The one in the suit; Winston; trained doctors in China; is married to a Chinese doctor; and knows a lot of doctors over there; and has done a lot of research into the origin of the Covid-19 virus.

They say it was started in 2012 from miners in the Wuhan area; that contacted a SARS upper respiratory virus; which samples were taken to the Wuhan Lab and manipulated.

Which then eventually morphed into the Covid-19 virus; and was passed into the open-meat market in Wuhan. These two guy's were warning about this in their videos back in 2018; which no one listened to.

com7fy8 · May 27, 2021

civilwarbuff you refer us to what this article said:
Scientists Are Tired of Explaining Why The COVID-19 Virus Was Not Made in a Lab

According to this article . . . there is no proof of a conspiracy, but ones have their political motives for promoting that the COVID-19 has been deliberately spread.

Scientists have done enough work to see the COVID-19 virus was not humanly developed. Of course, the natural virus could have been staying in a lab.

Also . . . my note > even if it did get out of a lab, this does not prove it was intentionally let out. Even if it were humanly made, this does not prove it was let out, on purpose. Plus, of course, there are screwballs who could spread a thing like this, even in order to bring blame against the Chinese government.

I think of one thing, by the way > if official Chinese wanted to mess with America, they could have had the virus brought secretly to the United States, then spread it without the mess they had in China.

I notice, by the way, how not many Americans are boycotting China-made products. If either Donald or Joe really believed China started all this on purpose . . . I suppose either president would have shut down all business with China, right away.

As I understand the article's claims > the Chinese laboratory did have a batty virus there. But it notes that the director of that Chinese lab claims they did genetic checks and found the COVID-19 early virus does not match with the genetic makeup of her lab's viruses. Plus, it claims scientists know a humanly altered virus would be inferior, somehow; but the COVID-19 one is natural.

It says ones believe that the lab's prisoner virus potentially could have mutated to the COVID one, but that process would have taken at least twenty years . . . if I understand this part right. And I consider that would work more likely if the virus was out free with bats and whoever for doing enough reproducing to get the needed mutations . . . over at least 20 years??

It is, though, easier to just assume things and point fingers at people you don't like.

Pavel Mosko · May 27, 2021

civilwarbuff said:
Comments/thoughts?

Great topic, been thinking about this myself. Also I think you are missing one important recent headline....

In 2018, Diplomats Warned of Risky Coronavirus Experiments in a Wuhan Lab. No One Listened.

adderbolt · May 27, 2021

Brihaha said:
America may defund Chinese medical research but what else changes?

If COVID19 was deliberately released by a foreign government on the United States and the World and what with all the resulting deaths, injuries and loss of income and property then that unloosening of the virus was an act of war and should be treated as such.

If the release of the virus was human error and/or some kind of an accident, as many suspect, then there is the matter of compensation waiting to be formally adjudicated for the great damages that are listed above. Such redress and restitution could bankrupt an offending country so it is no wonder that many in power want COVID19 to be declared an act of God or nature.

dqhall · May 27, 2021

civilwarbuff said:
A short stroll down memory lane.....

Remember what Trump claimed about covid-19?
Coronavirus: Trump stands by China lab origin theory for virus

Remember MSM's and the 'scientific community' response?
Ignore the conspiracy theories: scientists know Covid-19 wasn't created in a lab | Peter Daszak
"Suggestions that Covid-19 is a manmade virus are the latest chapter in a tale of blame, misinformation and finger-pointing. Cue the conspiracy theorists, marching out their narrative about the high-security BSL-4 lab in Wuhan, where mysterious experiments to design “frankenviruses” led to the tragic global pandemic."
Scientists Are Tired of Explaining Why The COVID-19 Virus Was Not Made in a Lab

And today.....
Facebook Reverses on Banning Lab Virus Theory
Fauci admits COVID-19 could have come from Wuhan lab, butts heads with Rand Paul
Theories COVID-19 created in lab 'remain viable' says group of 18 leading scientists

The music is similar but man have the lyrics changed......

Comments/thoughts?

The Chinese People’s Liberation Army was in Wuhan conducting experiments with lethal viruses and tried to cover up the outbreak.

PLA experimented in Wuhan lab, covered up outbreak | Taiwan News | 2021-02-22 18:11:00

98cwitr · May 27, 2021

Honestly, I don't care where it came from, nor about if it was leaked on purpose or not. My concern is how state governments responded to it.

Aryeh Jay · May 27, 2021

Wait, so NOW it's not the same as the flu? My goodness, what changed?

lsume · May 27, 2021

civilwarbuff said:
A short stroll down memory lane.....

Remember what Trump claimed about covid-19?
Coronavirus: Trump stands by China lab origin theory for virus

Remember MSM's and the 'scientific community' response?
Ignore the conspiracy theories: scientists know Covid-19 wasn't created in a lab | Peter Daszak
"Suggestions that Covid-19 is a manmade virus are the latest chapter in a tale of blame, misinformation and finger-pointing. Cue the conspiracy theorists, marching out their narrative about the high-security BSL-4 lab in Wuhan, where mysterious experiments to design “frankenviruses” led to the tragic global pandemic."
Scientists Are Tired of Explaining Why The COVID-19 Virus Was Not Made in a Lab

And today.....
Facebook Reverses on Banning Lab Virus Theory
Fauci admits COVID-19 could have come from Wuhan lab, butts heads with Rand Paul
Theories COVID-19 created in lab 'remain viable' says group of 18 leading scientists

The music is similar but man have the lyrics changed......

Comments/thoughts?

The blame game doesn’t work.

Ana the Ist · May 27, 2021

whatbogsends said:
I know your post is tongue-in-cheek/sarcastic, but there absolutely was a coverup/propoganda campaign waged by the mainstream media and international health organizations to silence any inquiry regarding potential origin in a lab.

This is an article from the Washington Post yesterday, which summarizes it, albeit still doesn't talk about how dishonest it was for people to characterize the lab theory as "conspiracy theory" when the real origin was actually unknown.

Some highlights:

July 4 (2020): The Times of London reports that a virus 96 percent identical to the coronavirus that causes covid-19 was found in an abandoned copper mine in China in 2012. The bat-infested copper mine in southwestern China was home to a coronavirus that left six men sick with pneumonia, with three eventually dying, after they had been tasked with shoveling bat guano out of the mine. This virus was collected in 2013 and then stored and studied at WIV.

March 22(2021): The Australian newspaper reports: “Wuhan Institute of Virology researchers working on coronaviruses were hospitalized with symptoms consistent with covid-19 in early November 2019 in what U.S. officials suspect could have been the first cluster.”

Timeline: How the Wuhan lab-leak theory suddenly became credible

It's becoming increasingly clear that they're backtracking from their original narrative because the most likely scenario is actually a lab accident. It was reported in March of this year that Wuhan Institute of Virology researches had been hospitalized with Covid-like symptoms back in November 2019.

Back in July 2020, it was known that the WIV was storing/working with coronavirus samples which match 96% to Covid-19.

Yet as recently as a few weeks ago, posters on these forums - all liberals - were still calling the possibility it was released from a lab "conspiracy theory", because the MSM and Fauci were still propagating that narrative.

In that same thread, an article by Nicholas Wade was presented - the overwhelming response by the left was "why should we listen to Nicholas Wade"?

Well, the Washington Post seems to think we should listen to him. From that same article:

May 5: Former New York Times science reporter Nicholas Wade, writing in the Bulletin of the Atomic Scientists, reviews the evidence and makes a strong case for the lab-leak theory. He focuses in particular on the furin cleavage site, which increases viral infectivity for human cells. His analysis yields this quote from David Baltimore, a virologist and former president of the California Institute of Technology: “When I first saw the furin cleavage site in the viral sequence, with its arginine codons, I said to my wife it was the smoking gun for the origin of the virus. These features make a powerful challenge to the idea of a natural origin for SARS2.”

I highlighted that those who were at the forefront of dismissing the lab theory of the origin of Covid were those who were performing/funding Gain of Function research in Wuhan, and, as such, were potentially culpable. Of course those same folks that derided the lab theory as "conspiracy" didn't hesitate to label such information as nonsense or unimportant.

There's a couple of aspects of this story that make me giddy when I think about the possibility of this "lab leak hypothesis" gaining traction....

1. The various personal conversations I've had with friends, family, and coworkers that are going to start something like....

"Hey, remember back when I merely suggested the possibility of a lab leak and you scoffed/laughed/mocked me? Well..."

2. The Democrats in this administration trying to discuss this story without using the words "origin" and "Wuhan" or "China" in the same sentence because, you know, racism.

3. The discussion that should follow, but won't, about just how partisan and unreliable trusted mainstream news sources have become.

pescador · May 27, 2021

Ana the Ist said:
There's a couple of aspects of this story that make me giddy when I think about the possibility of this "lab leak hypothesis" gaining traction....

<snip>

3. The discussion that should follow, but won't, about just how partisan and unreliable trusted mainstream news sources have become.

Right. We should trust sources other than those of mainstream news. We should all get our information from the "experts" on Facebook, twitter, etc. who have no ulterior motive. THEY are the ones who will give us non-partisan and reliable news.

Right?? :oldthumbsup:

civilwarbuff · May 27, 2021

pescador said:
Right. We should trust sources other than those of mainstream news. We should all get our information from the "experts" on Facebook, twitter, etc. who have no ulterior motive. THEY are the ones who will give us non-partisan and reliable news.

Right??

But you can't deny that the msm has become partisan and unreliable?.......as stories about the OP subject demonstrate.

Rachel20 · May 27, 2021

I think many of us are feeling vindicated now. Love VOX's stealth editing and Politifact's arrogant statement the lab-leak theory was "debunked".

Remember when it was a 'conspiracy theory'?

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