Biblical Chronology: From Adam to the End of the World

yeshuasavedme said:

I haven't read your posts other than speed reading down them because there is a book which details the exact years from creation of the earth, through the ages of the patriarchs from the beginning to the entry of Israel into Canaan.
It totally correlates with the Torah and through into the book of Joshua.
It also correlates totally with Bishop Usher's work except for one 75 [?] year discrepancy in the age of Terah when Abraham was born, and that was only because he assumed Genesis 11:27 meant the 3 sons were triplets, because he did not have access to the histories written by the Jews.
Abram was born to Terah last, and the listing in that verse is not intended to change the order, but to list the son through whom Christ was born. The listing order is in the same way Noah's 3 sons are not listed in their birth order in Genesis, but in order of importance of the line through whom the promised seed would come.
Genesis 10:21 states:
Unto Shem also, the father of all the children of Eber, the brother of Japheth the elder, even to him were children born.
Shem is listed first, but not born first.
Abraham was also born last to his listed brothers, and Terah did marry and have a 4th son, which is in the histories of the cronologies of fhe patriarchs, and also, Josephus makes mention of that son of Terah in his records, for that son was related to the Israelites, descended from Abraham, through Terah.
The book of the upright/ Book of Jasher:
"33 And Terah died in that year, that is in the thirty-fifth year of the birth of Isaac son of Abraham.

34 And the days of Terah were two hundred and five years, and he was buried in Haran.

35 And Zoba the son of Terah lived thirty years and he begat Aram, Achlis and Merik.

36 And Aram son of Zoba son of Terah, had three wives and he begat twelve sons and three daughters; and the Lord gave to Aram the son of Zoba, riches and possessions, and abundance of cattle, and flocks and herds, and the man increased greatly.

The Book of the Upright/Book of Jasher

https://ccel.org/a/anonymous/jasher/home.html37 And Aram the son of Zoba and his brother and all his household journeyed from Haran, and they went to dwell where they should find a place, for their property was too great to remain in Haran; for they could not stop in Haran together with their brethren the children of Nahor.

38 And Aram the son of Zoba went with his brethren, and they found a valley at a distance toward the eastern country and they dwelt there.

39 And they also built a city there, and they called the name thereof Aram, after the name of their eldest brother; that is Aram Zoba to this day."

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Great arguments proving that the Bible doesn't always list birth order! You're spot on with that my friend. That being said it will not change the year in which the father begat their child so, while Abraham wasn't the eldest we only need to know that he was born in Terah's 70th Year. My explanation on the timing of Shem's birth in post #4 will help make this clear for you. Please do take time to read through posts #1-10 as I clearly and neatly lay out all of my reasons, numbers, and cite my sources. And ignore post #3 as that person wasn't supposed to comment until after I had finished writing out my multi post thread.

BobRyan said:

Well there is your mistake since 69 weeks (483 days = 483 years) from 457 B.C is 27 A.D not 530 A.D.

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Forgive me brother but, this isn't correct:

30 AD - 483 Years = -453 BC (Christ to Cyrus)
30 AD + 500 Years = 530 AD (Christ to Millennial Reign)

So the 70th Week would occur...

30 AD + 493 Years = 423 AD = 5993 AM (Christ to 70th Week)

BobRyan said:

Ok. And the fact that all timelines are contiguous "by definition" means that knowing the start point determines the end point

If it were legit to insert massive numbers of centuries of undefined amounts of time to the middle of any timeline it would cease to be a timeline. 70 weeks if 490 prophetic days - a single timeline using day for year. So a 457 start date determines a 34 A.D. end point.



Which is not even possible without simply "assuming" one can slice and dice timelines insert gaps of time as long as one may wish into the middle of them - which is never the case in any Bible timeline.

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What you're saying would be true if you or I controlled the prophecy given to Daniel but, we don't. Also if the 70th Week occurs on 34 AD then why do we not read in the Gospels of the Anti-Christ making a covenant with many nations?

I find your conclusion difficult to take serious when Christ in His own words tells us that the Abomination of Desolation is far off in the future (Matthew 24:15-22 cf. Daniel 9:26-27). Interestingly enough I haven't read of any of the Apostles or members of the church after the gospels witnessing the abomination of desolation. As a matter of fact, if you analyze the book of Revelation carefully you will see that is the last place that the three and a half years from Daniel are mentioned (Revelation 11:1-14). Unless you can prove otherwise from scripture, the book of Revelation makes it very clear that the final seven years, and the last three and a half years occur right before the sixth seal is opened.

BobRyan said:

Nothing in Dan 9 says the Abomination of desolation happens within the 490 years - you are assuming it.



Dan 7 mentions the 1260 years of dark ages that comes sometime after the fall of the pagan Roman empire.

Rev 11 - mentions that same 1260 period of dark ages
Rev 12 - mentions that same 1260 years of dark ages
Rev 13 - mentions that same 1260 years of dark ages.

It is in fact the biggest slice of time in the entire church age from Christ to this very day of intense persecution of the church where the Bible itself became scarce on planet Earth in terms of access to it for the common citizen. Even in Christendom itself the Bible was put on the list of "forbidden books" by christian leaders.

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These last two statements from you prove that you don't need to be taken seriously anymore. Christ specifically states the abomination of desolation occurs within the 70th Week and even says that Daniel said so (Daniel 9:26-27 cf. Matthew 24:15-22). And basic arithmetic shows...

Biden to Christ
2021 AD - 30 AD = 1,991 Years

Biden to Fall of Eastern Eastern Roman Empire
2021 AD - 1453 AD = 568 Years

Biden to Fall of Western Roman Empire
2021 AD - 476 AD = 1,545 Years

So you've contradicted your own "Church Dark Age" statement and proven yourself to be a false witness three different times. Heartfelt prayers go out to you dear brother.

BobRyan said:

No He does not - or else you would have actually quoted him saying "within the 70th week"

Christ says two things
1. The abomination is still future
2. it was mentioned by Daniel.

But does not say "the abomination of desolation occurs within the 70th Week"

And it appears you and I both know it since you quote no such thing from Christ.

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Since your replies are sloppy and hasty let's slow things down Matrix style for you so you can see the bullets like Neo. Let's take each part of Daniel 9 carefully:


"I went on praying and confessing my sin and the sin of my people, pleading with the Lord my God for Jerusalem, his holy mountain. As I was praying, Gabriel, whom I had seen in the earlier vision, came swiftly to me at the time of the evening sacrifice. He explained to me, “Daniel, I have come here to give you insight and understanding. The moment you began praying, a command was given. And now I am here to tell you what it was, for you are very precious to God. Listen carefully so that you can understand the meaning of your vision. “A period of seventy sets of seven has been decreed for your people and your holy city to finish their rebellion, to put an end to their sin, to atone for their guilt, to bring in everlasting righteousness, to confirm the prophetic vision, and to anoint the Most Holy Place[...]"
Daniel 9:20-24

In this first part of the vision Gabriel tells Daniel that there are a total of 70 Weeks for him and his people and Jerusalem. And within this time span three things will be happen to bring in everlasting righteousness:

1) Israel's rebellion will be brought to an end.
2) An end will be brought to their sin.
3) Atonement for their guilt.

Sounds like Someone is being prophesied to come and clean the House of God and His People? How long will this take?

1 Week = 7 Years
70 Weeks × 7 Years = 490 Years = 10 Jubilees

Looks like we have a Jubilee pattern going on here which is based on the same formula for counting down to the Feast of Weeks (Leviticus 23:15-16 cf. 25:8-12 ff.)

Feast of Weeks
7 Weeks × 7 Days = 49 Days
49 Days + 1 Day = 50 Days

Jubilee Period
7 Weeks × 7 Years = 49 Years
49 Years + 1 Year = 50 Years

49 Years × 10 Jubilees = 490 Years
490 Years + 10 Years = 500 Years

Now that we have established this we must cover the next part of this prophecy:

"[...]Now listen and understand! Seven sets of seven plus sixty-two sets of seven will pass from the time the command is given to rebuild Jerusalem until a ruler—the Anointed One —comes. Jerusalem will be rebuilt with streets and strong defenses, despite the perilous times. “After this period of sixty-two sets of seven, the Anointed One will be killed, appearing to have accomplished nothing, and a ruler will arise whose armies will destroy the city and the Temple[...]"
Daniel 9:25-26

Okay so, 69 Weeks will pass from the time the order is given to rebuild Jerusalem and God's Temple to the time "The Anointed One" (i.e. Jesus Christ) comes...

Decree of Cyrus to Completion of Jerusalem and God's Temple
7 Weeks × 7 Years = 49 Years (7 Sets of 7)

Completion of Jerusalem and God's Temple to Christ
62 Weeks × 7 Years = 434 Years (62 Sets of 7)

Cyrus to Christ
49 Years + 434 Years = 483 Years

In other words from the time Cyrus gave the decree to rebuild Jerusalem and God's Temple to the time Christ died on the cross was 483 Years and, to many alive who didn't understand what happened at that time thought the death of Christ was pointless. But after Christ rose from the dead they realized that His death brought an end to their sin! The destruction of Jerusalem and God's Temple was accomplished by Titus the son of Vespasian and is well attested to in the histories of Josephus, Tacitus, St. Epiphianus, Eusebius, and Sulpitius Severus: which happened as a result of the constant rebellion of the Jews towards Rome, therefore God used Vespasian and Titus to end their rebellion. But what about the 70th Week? When does that finally come into play?

"[...]The end will come with a flood, and war and its miseries are decreed from that time to the very end. The ruler will make a treaty with the people for a period of one set of seven, but after half this time, he will put an end to the sacrifices and offerings. And as a climax to all his terrible deeds, he will set up a sacrilegious object that causes desecration, until the fate decreed for this defiler is finally poured out on him.”
Daniel 9:27

This means that the 70th Week was not accomplished during the time of Titus destroying Jerusalem and God's Temple. The first part of this passage states that the we will be embroiled in miseries and wars until the very end. And we see that this unanmed "ruler" (i.e. not Christ) will make a convenant with many people for 1 Set of 7 and, in the middle of this 7 Years he will cause the sacrifices and offerings to cease and, set up a "sacrilegious object that causes desecration (i.e. "Abomination of Desolation").

Wow...so this means that in order for sacrifices to be stopped God's Temple must be rebuilt in the future...and this "ruler" will place the "Abomination of Desolation" in the Holy of Holies...hmmm...I wonder who would think of doing that? Oh I know! Satan the Anti-Christ who has always wanted to make himself "God"....let's do some basic arithmetic children...

7 Years ÷ 2 = 3 Years 6 Months

What does Christ have to say about all of this?

"As Jesus was leaving the Temple grounds, his disciples pointed out to him the various Temple buildings. But he responded, “Do you see all these buildings? I tell you the truth, they will be completely demolished. Not one stone will be left on top of another!” Later, Jesus sat on the Mount of Olives. His disciples came to him privately and said, “Tell us, when will all this happen? What sign will signal your return and the end of the world? ”
Jesus told them, “Don’t let anyone mislead you,
for many will come in my name, claiming, ‘I am the Messiah.’ They will deceive many. And you will hear of wars and threats of wars, but don’t panic. Yes, these things must take place, but the end won’t follow immediately. Nation will go to war against nation, and kingdom against kingdom. There will be famines and earthquakes in many parts of the world. But all this is only the first of the birth pains, with more to come. “Then you will be arrested, persecuted, and killed. You will be hated all over the world because you are my followers. And many will turn away from me and betray and hate each other. And many false prophets will appear and will deceive many people. Sin will be rampant everywhere, and the love of many will grow cold. But the one who endures to the end will be saved. And the Good News about the Kingdom will be preached throughout the whole world, so that all nations will hear it; and then the end will come[...]"
Matthew 24:1‭-‬3‭, ‬5‭-‬14

Pretty impressive, the words of Christ line up perfectly with what we just read from Daniel. What about the "Abomination of Desolation"?

“[...]The day is coming when you will see what Daniel the prophet spoke about—the sacrilegious object that causes desecration standing in the Holy Place.” (Reader, pay attention!) “Then those in Judea must flee to the hills. A person out on the deck of a roof must not go down into the house to pack. A person out in the field must not return even to get a coat. How terrible it will be for pregnant women and for nursing mothers in those days. And pray that your flight will not be in winter or on the Sabbath. For there will be greater anguish than at any time since the world began. And it will never be so great again. In fact, unless that time of calamity is shortened, not a single person will survive. But it will be shortened for the sake of God’s chosen ones. “Then if anyone tells you, ‘Look, here is the Messiah,’ or ‘There he is,’ don’t believe it. For false messiahs and false prophets will rise up and perform great signs and wonders so as to deceive, if possible, even God’s chosen ones. See, I have warned you about this ahead of time. “So if someone tells you, ‘Look, the Messiah is out in the desert,’ don’t bother to go and look. Or, ‘Look, he is hiding here,’ don’t believe it! For as the lightning flashes in the east and shines to the west, so it will be when the Son of Man comes. Just as the gathering of vultures shows there is a carcass nearby, so these signs indicate that the end is near[...]"
Matthew 24:15‭-‬28

Christ just confirmed what Daniel said again...wow...and from the time He ascended back to heaven many people have been claiming to be Christ when they are not. Jesus goes on further to emphasize that His Second Coming will be as clear and obvious as lighting flashes from east to west so, we won't be mistaken when He actually arrives as the whole world will know and see Him. What else does He say?

"[...]Immediately after the anguish of those days, the sun will be darkened, the moon will give no light, the stars will fall from the sky, and the powers in the heavens will be shaken. And then at last, the sign that the Son of Man is coming will appear in the heavens, and there will be deep mourning among all the peoples of the earth. And they will see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of heaven with power and great glory. And he will send out his angels with the mighty blast of a trumpet, and they will gather his chosen ones from all over the world —from the farthest ends of the earth and heaven."
Matthew 24:29‭-‬31

Okay so let's see what Christ is telling us about the 70th Week:

The "ruler" makes a covenant with the people in the beginning of the 70th Week of Daniel
1 2 3 4 5 6 7

In the middle of the week the "ruler" will cause the sacrifices and offerings to cease and set up a "Sacrilegious Object that Causes Desecration" in the Holy Place
1 2 3 4 5 6 7 (i.e. 3 Years 6 Months)

From the time of the "Sacrilegious Object that Causes Desecration" is setup in the Holy Place to the Second Coming of Christ their will be a "Great Tribulation"
1 2 3 4 5 6 7 (i.e. 3 Years 6 Months)

And as regards to the 7,000 Year time-line of Genesis 1:1-2:3 the 70th Week of Daniel fits precisely at 5,933 Years from Adam. My work on the biblical chronology proves the truth of my words.

BobRyan said:

Don't you have to actually quote me doing that to make that accusation against my position?

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If you actually look at my reply to you in post #28 you'll see that I quoted your "Church Dark Age" statement from post #27 where you claim that Daniel 9 and Revelation 11, 12, and 13 speak of a 1260 years "Church Dark Age" which occurred sometime after pagan Rome. And in post #28 I refute your claim and show how you contradicted yourself. If for whatever reason you can't see where I quoted you from post #27 then click on the 'Click to Expand' tab to expand the 'Quote Box'.

BobRyan said:

And then in this next post you proceed to demonstrate "not finding" any text in the bible were Jesus says abomination of Dan 9 happens inside the 70 week timeline



Pretty impressive that you find not one quote of Christ "speaking of the 70th week" having the abomination of desolation in it in your quoted post above.



Ok - I believe we can both see that.. agreed.



Are you serious? In your post #28 you quote not one single Bible text - which then "proves nothing" and therefore "refutes nothing".

you simply point to where you make the claim "Christ specifically states the abomination of desolation occurs within the 70th Week " while still not showing it.



You don't show any quote of mine to be a problem - and then you simply quote your own assertions which have no relevance to any text that supposedly would show Christ saying "the abomination of desolation occurs within the 70th week of Dan 9" -- or anything remotely like it.

were we simply "not supposed to notice"??

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It's hilarious that you fail to understand that when presenting evidences there are only two types that are acceptable in the court of law:

1) Direct Evidence
2) Circumstantial

While you keep harping on about direct evidence for a quote with the specific language and text: you fail to see the circumstsntial evidence I have provided. And this is no surprise because at this point you're simply protecting your embarrassed and wounded ego by raising objections to semantics in order to make it seem as if you still posses some validity in this discussion.

And you're a liar who refuses to see that you contradicted yourself and exposed your own ignorance of history with your "Church Dark Age" claim being 1260 years when the our world timeline doesn't even support your claim lol! You partially quote what I say as if that will somehow "erase" or "cover up" your foolishness in the posts of yours I have numbered and quoted above.

BobRyan said:

Because you said "Christ specifically states the abomination of desolation occurs within the 70th Week "

Which as it turns out "is the key" to your entire pitch for slicing and dicing up Bible timelines. Even you point out how your own argument hinges on having that statement from Christ.

It is all you have left in your search for a reason to insert gaps of undefined-length time into them in pure eisegetical fashion.

Now you think it is "hilarious" that you would be expected to back that while assertion up - with an actual text ??

Seriously??

How is that even remotely compelling?



I am not one the suggesting that readers imagine an insert of gaps of undefined lengths of time into Bible timelines. Which means I have no risk here.




Name-calling is not a funny-sort-of-substitute for actual evidence, some sort of proof. You have to actually show something.



1. I never contradicted myself - you can keep falsely accusing me of it - but you should try and show it eventually if you really believe that.

2. There is no question that soon after the Dan 7 break up of the pagan Roman Empire there follows the dark ages. 1260 years of persecution of the saints as seen in Dan 7, Rev 11, Rev 12, Rev 13.

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So you understand that the "Dark/Middle Ages" occurred between 476 AD to about the beginning the 13th Century right? In some cases the 14th and 15th Centuries are also included which is a timespan ranging between 724-1,024 Years: which refutes your 1,260 Years "Church Dark Age" claim lol! And seeing that according to mainstream history the Church was also caught between this time period it did not get out of it before everyone, but with everyone during the Renaissance.

It's also funny how you completely ignore the plain fact that the Four Beasts of Daniel 7 are the Four World Empires:

1) Babylon = Lion
2) Medo-Persia = Bear
2) Greece = Leopard
3) Fearsome Beast = Rome

And somehow you missed the connection between the Fourth Beast with Seven Heads and Ten Horns with the Great Red Dragon who has Seven Heads and Ten Horns and, the Beast of the Sea who also has Seven Heads and Ten Horns; not only this but, you also failed to correlate the 1,260 Days of Daniel 7 and 9 and with Revelation 11 and 13 which specifically equate them with 42 Months at which time the gentiles and the Beast of the Sea will trample the outer courtyard of the Temple and the Holy City (i.e. Jerusalem); and it is during this same 1,260 Day period in which the Two Witnesses will appear. Yet, despite all of this you have failed to properly account for your "Church Dark Age" claim by not citing your sources or adding up the years to show they match up with your 1,260 Years; and, you failed to mention who the "Two Witnesses" are along with the identity of the Four Beasts in your claim. Basic arithmetic shows:

1,260 Days ÷ 360 Days = 3 Years 6 Months
1,260 Days ÷ 30 Days = 42 Months
42 Months ÷ 12 Months = 3 Years 6 Months
3 Years × 12 Months = 36 Months
36 Months + 6 Months = 42 Months

This is the same time period discussed in Daniel 9:27 which occurs at the time "The Abomination of Desolation" is setup in the Holy Place which occurs in the middle of the 70th Week which just so happens to be the same 3 Years 6 Months aforementioned.

Oh yeah, and if you account for the Statue of king Nebuchadnezzar's dream it also is divided into Four Parts:

1) Head of Gold = Babylon
2) Chest and Arms of Silver = Medo-Persia
3) Belly and Thighs of Bronze = Greece
4a) Legs of Iron = Rome (United)
4b) Feet of Iron mixed with Clay = Rome (Divided)

This fourfold division is connected to the Four Beasts and, notice how the Two Feet are of Ten Toes just like "The Great Red Dragon" and the "Beast of the Sea/Fourth Beast" also have Ten Horns. And when you look at history Rome was at the height of it's power during the time of Augustus and, around the time of Nero began it's gradual decline; and then during the time of Diocletian the Roman Empire was divided into East and West as he saw it too big to manage himself and, by this time there were many foreign men in the service of the Roman army, and not to mention had uneasy alliances with the nations around them.

So, the problem isn't me assigning the 70th Week of Daniel to 530 AD: it's your failure to see that historically the Temple of God has never been rebuilt since the time Titus destroyed it and, he did not setup anything in the Holy of Holies or stand in it but, leveled it to the ground along with Jerusalem as Daniel and Jesus prophesied. It is only in more modern times that the world and the Jews are speaking of building the Third Temple. Your failure to accept the reality of history is getting in your way of seeing the truth.

BobRyan said:

Dan 7 mentions the 1260 years of dark ages that comes sometime after the fall of the pagan Roman empire.

Rev 11 - mentions that same 1260 period of dark ages
Rev 12 - mentions that same 1260 years of dark ages
Rev 13 - mentions that same 1260 years of dark ages.

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President Biden to Fall of Western Roman Empire
2021 AD - 476 AD = 1,545 Years

President Biden to Fall of Eastern Roman Empire
2021 AD - 1453 AD = 568 Years

Dark/Middle Ages
15th Century - 476 AD = 1,024 Years
14th Century - 476 AD = 924 Years
13th Century - 476 AD = 724 Years

In all cases your "1260 Year Church Dark Age" claim fits nowhere in history and even contradicts it.

BobRyan said:

It is in fact the biggest slice of time in the entire church age from Christ to this very day of intense persecution of the church where the Bible itself became scarce on planet Earth in terms of access to it for the common citizen. Even in Christendom itself the Bible was put on the list of "forbidden books" by christian leaders.

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Below are the nine major persecutions of the Church during the time of the pagan Roman Empire:

1) Nero
2) Domitian
3) Trajan
4) Hadrian
5) Aurelius son of Antoninus Pius
6) Severus
7) Decius
8) Valerian
9) Diocletian and Maximian

The major Church persecutions ended with Constantine the Great and we are waiting for the tenth and final major Church persecution to be committed by the Anti-Christ as spoken of by Daniel who calls him "the ruler"; Paul addresses him as "the Man of Sin"; and, both Daniel and John make it clear that there are ten kings who will rule with the beast for one hour. Nine out of the ten are shown above. For the Fourth Beast/Beast of the Sea with the Seven Heads and Ten Horns = Rome while the Great Harlot who rides upon it is Jerusalem as we are told by John in Revelation. The 10th Major Church persecution is what Christ calls the "Great Tribulation".

So we see that history proves you wrong again and, you have contradicted yourself three times:

Contradiction #1
1st Claim
Daniel speaks of a "Church Dark Age" lasting 1,260 Years which occurred sometime after the fall of the pagan Roman Empire.

2nd Claim
The "Church Dark Age" lasts from the time of Christ to our present day.

So did the "Church Dark Age" last from the time after the pagan Roman Empire fell or, did it last from the time of Christ to our present day?

Contradiction # 2
3rd Claim
Revelation 11, 12, and 13 speak of a "Church Dark Age lasting 1,260 Years.

You being unable to see the contradiction in your first two claims decided it was wise to double down by citing a second biblical book to back up your already contrary claims.

Contradiction #3
4th Claim
The Bible becomes scarce from the time of Christ to our present day because of intense persecution of the Church.

5th Claim
In Christendom Church leaders placed the Bible in the list of "forbidden books".

Did the Bible become scarce because of the intense persecution of the Church or, did it become scarce because Church leaders banned it? Also how is the Bible scarce today when it's quietly ranked the New York Times best seller year after year? Not to mention millions of people have been studying the Bible during COVID-19 in either book or electronic form.

In closing since you have proven to be slow in seeing that you contradict history and yourself I've had to show you each and every place you erred. I pray that this will teach you to study up more and weigh your words before speaking.