Clarifying the Debate "basics" on Sabbath and the TEN Commandments

SabbathBlessings said:

How do you know what I do? Also it doesn’t matter what I say, God is the one who commanded us to keep His Sabbath holy, Exodus 20:8-11

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The bible said we are All sinners...so it doesn't matter what you do or not do...Romans 3:12...."there is No One who does good"....We All have sinned...(All means everybody)

So what is sin?
Transgress of God's law...(breaking of God's commandments including the 4th commandment you think you can keep..)

BobRyan said:

Good point -

And why does it matter when I am reading the Bible how much name-calling I am not doing? Why do I even need to do name-calling to read my Bible?

Why would I need to accuse-others as if that was some sort of substitute for Bible study and sola scriptura testing of doctrine?

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Then why telling others they should keep a command that those who say it can't keep?

pasifika said:

The bible said we are All sinners...so it doesn't matter what you do or not do...Romans 3:12...."there is No One who does good"....We All have sinned...(All means everybody)

So what is sin?
Transgress of God's law...(breaking of God's commandments including the 4th commandment you think you can keep..)

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I am glad you recognize not keeping God's commandments includes God's Sabbath is sinning. What I am hearing you say is because we can't keep the commandments why try?

To me, this is under estimating our Savior who said
But Jesus looked at them and said to them, “With men this is impossible, but with God all things are possible.” Mathew 19:26, which is why Jesus gives us a Helper to obey His commandments John 14:15 “If you love Me, keep My commandments. 16 And I will pray the Father, and He will give you another Helper, that He may abide with you forever— 17 the Spirit of truth, whom the world cannot receive, because it neither sees Him nor knows Him; but you know Him, for He dwells with you and will be in you. 18 I will not leave you orphans; I will come to you.

According to the scriptures there are some who do keep God's commandments:
Revelations 14:12 Here is the patience of the saints; here are those who keep the commandments of God and the faith of Jesus.

And they seem really important!

Revelations 22:14 Blessed are those who do His commandments, that they may have the right to the tree of life, and may enter through the gates into the city.

BobRyan said:

And they affirm all TEN of the TEN Commandments "just when" you tried to re-imagine for us that only SDAs know that all Ten of the TEN commandments are included in the "moral law of God" - a Bible fact that Bible scholars on BOTH sides of the Sabbath debate know to be true.

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So far, you have been able to show the term "the moral law" in manmade confessions, but not in the Bible, and then claim these man-made confessions as your source of truth.

All Bible scholars do not agree.

Paul warned against denominations in 1 Corinthians chapter 1, but you are using these denominations as your source of truth.

You have claimed the ten commandments were given to Adam in the garden, even though Deuteronomy 5:1-22 says they were not given at an earlier time.


Do you believe the commandment below is important?

Deu 5:20 Neither shalt thou bear false witness against thy neighbour.

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SabbathBlessings said:

And in doing so you will keep God's 4th Commandment, not break it.

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If by that I worship God on the day Jesus rose from the dead, Sunday, then yes.

Tolworth John said:

If by that I worship God on the day Jesus rose from the dead, Sunday, then yes.

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Just show me in the Bible where God or Jesus told us the seventh day is no longer holy and the first day is God's new day of worship. You can search from cover to cover and you will not find that scripture.

God's holy day has not and will not ever change, which is why we will continue worshipping Him on the New Earth on God's chosen day Isaiah 66:23, not the day adopted by man that Jesus warned us about. Mathew 15:3-9

SabbathBlessings said:

God's holy day has not and will not ever change,

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The Ten Commandments

Deu 5:1 And Moses called all Israel, and said unto them, Hear, O Israel, the statutes and judgments which I speak in your ears this day, that ye may learn them, and keep, and do them.
Deu 5:2 The LORD our God made a covenant with us in Horeb.
Deu 5:3 The LORD made not this covenant with our fathers, but with us, even us, who are all of us here alive this day.
Deu 5:4 The LORD talked with you face to face in the mount out of the midst of the fire,
Deu 5:5 (I stood between the LORD and you at that time, to shew you the word of the LORD: for ye were afraid by reason of the fire, and went not up into the mount saying,
Deu 5:6 I am the LORD thy God, which brought thee out of the land of Egypt, from the house of bondage.
Deu 5:7 Thou shalt have none other gods before me.
Deu 5:8 Thou shalt not make thee any graven image, or any likeness of any thing that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the waters beneath the earth:
Deu 5:9 Thou shalt not bow down thyself unto them, nor serve them: for I the LORD thy God am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children unto the third and fourth generation of them that hate me,
Deu 5:10 And shewing mercy unto thousands of them that love me and keep my commandments.
Deu 5:11 Thou shalt not take the name of the LORD thy God in vain: for the LORD will not hold him guiltless that taketh his name in vain.
Deu 5:12 Keep the sabbath day to sanctify it, as the LORD thy God hath commanded thee.
Deu 5:13 Six days thou shalt labour, and do all thy work:
Deu 5:14 But the seventh day is the sabbath of the LORD thy God: in it thou shalt not do any work, thou, nor thy son, nor thy daughter, nor thy manservant, nor thy maidservant, nor thine ox, nor thine ass, nor any of thy cattle, nor thy stranger that is within thy gates; that thy manservant and thy maidservant may rest as well as thou.
Deu 5:15 And remember that thou wast a servant in the land of Egypt, and that the LORD thy God brought thee out thence through a mighty hand and by a stretched out arm: therefore the LORD thy God commanded thee to keep the sabbath day.
Deu 5:16 Honour thy father and thy mother, as the LORD thy God hath commanded thee; that thy days may be prolonged, and that it may go well with thee, in the land which the LORD thy God giveth thee.
Deu 5:17 Thou shalt not kill.
Deu 5:18 Neither shalt thou commit adultery.
Deu 5:19 Neither shalt thou steal.
Deu 5:20 Neither shalt thou bear false witness against thy neighbour.
Deu 5:21 Neither shalt thou desire thy neighbour's wife, neither shalt thou covet thy neighbour's house, his field, or his manservant, or his maidservant, his ox, or his ass, or any thing that is thy neighbour's.
Deu 5:22 These words the LORD spake unto all your assembly in the mount out of the midst of the fire, of the cloud, and of the thick darkness, with a great voice: and he added no more. And he wrote them in two tables of stone, and delivered them unto me.

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SabbathBlessings said:

I am glad you recognize not keeping God's commandments includes God's Sabbath is sinning. What I am hearing you say is because we can't keep the commandments why try?

To me, this is under estimating our Savior who said
But Jesus looked at them and said to them, “With men this is impossible, but with God all things are possible.” Mathew 19:26, which is why Jesus gives us a Helper to obey His commandments John 14:15 “If you love Me, keep My commandments. 16 And I will pray the Father, and He will give you another Helper, that He may abide with you forever— 17 the Spirit of truth, whom the world cannot receive, because it neither sees Him nor knows Him; but you know Him, for He dwells with you and will be in you. 18 I will not leave you orphans; I will come to you.

According to the scriptures there are some who do keep God's commandments:
Revelations 14:12 Here is the patience of the saints; here are those who keep the commandments of God and the faith of Jesus.

And they seem really important!

Revelations 22:14 Blessed are those who do His commandments, that they may have the right to the tree of life, and may enter through the gates into the city.

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Yes I recognize i cannot follow a law that I myself Or whoever follows them cant keep.but i follow a law that Christ will enable me to keep..

That law is love our neighbors "Royal law" James 2:1-3..not written in the 10 commandments. ..

1Corinthians 9:21...though I'm not free from Gods law but im under Christ law..

When you and SDA understand covenant requirements (old &new) for Righteousness then you'll know why the old covenant law is impossible to keep...God gave to show Israel their sins Not to make them Righteous..

Tolworth John said:

None of my salvation is through keeping of rituals or sacred days, I worship my saviour in spirit and I hope in truth on the day he rose from the dead.

I am not more a Christian because I worship ONA Sunday nor am I less a Christian.

It is the seventh day Adventist who make a work out of worshipping on a Saturday, implying that those who don't are not real Christians.

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Hello John,

No one worships God according to Jesus by following man-made teachings and traditions that break the commandments of God in Matthew 15:3-9. There is no work in keeping God's commandments if we have been born again to love God through faith in His Word according to John in 1 John 5:2-3; 1 John 3:6-9.

So there is no misunderstandings as to what I am sharing with you here. I believe God's people are in every Church living up to all the light and the knowledge of Gods' Word that God has revealed to them through His Word *John 10:16. I am sure you are one of these people who love God, but as Jesus says the hour is coming and now is that God's true worshipers where ever they may be must worship Him in Spirit and in truth.

According to the scriptures BABYLON has fallen. Many of the Christian Church's of the world have departed God's Word in order to follow man-made teachings and traditions that have led many to break God's commandments and to depart Gods' Word. God knows that many do this out of ignorance and according to the scriptures in times of ignorance God winks at but when he gives us a knowledge of the truth of His Word called us all to believe and follow them *Acts of the Apostles 17:30-31; James 4:17. If God gives us a knowledge of the truth of His Word and we reject it then according to Paul there remains no more sacrifice for sins but a fearful looking forward to of the judgement to come in Hebrews 10:26-31.

God is calling us all to return to His Word. God knew that the world would forget His 4th commandment of the 10 commandments that give us a knowledge of what sin is when broken *Romans 3:20 and is calling us back by saying "Remember" what we have forgotten *Exodus 20:8-11. God's 4th commandment is a memorial of creation pointing back to the God of creation where he blessed the "seventh day" and made it as holy day of rest and a celebration of God as the creator of Heaven and earth. The scriptures tell us "Fear God, and give glory to him; for the hour of his judgment is come: and worship him that made heaven, and earth, and the sea, and the fountains of waters." - Revelation 14:7-12. God is calling us all back to what we have forgotten. God's 4th commandment of the 10 commandments is a "memorial" of creation and a celebration of God as the creator of heaven and earth.

The question we must all consider therefore is who do we believe and follow; God or man? Are we worshiping God in Spirit and in truth? Now is the time therefore to prepare for His coming and examine ourselves to see if we truly are in the faith or not *2 Corinthians 13:5. Only God's Word is true according to the scriptures and we should believe and follow them according to the scriptures *Romans 3:4 Acts of the Apostles 5:29.

God bless.

pasifika said:

Yes I recognize i cannot follow a law that I myself Or whoever follows them cant keep.but i follow a law that Christ will enable me to keep..

That law is love our neighbors "Royal law" James 2:1-3..not written in the 10 commandments. ..

1Corinthians 9:21...though I'm not free from Gods law but im under Christ law..

When you and SDA understand covenant requirements (old &new) for Righteousness then you'll know why the old covenant law is impossible to keep...God gave to show Israel their sins Not to make them Righteous..

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Your posts demonstrate you do no understand the old covenant or the new. Jesus came to save us from sin not to continue to practice sin *John 8:31-36; Romans 6:1-23; 1 John 3:4-9. Those who practice sin and those who do not according to John is the difference between the children of God and the children of the devil according to John in 1 John 3:6-10; 1 John 2:3-4; Revelation 12:17; Revelation 14:12; Revelation 22:14.

LoveGodsWord said:

Your posts demonstrate you do no understand the old covenant or the new. Jesus came to save us from sin not to continue to practice sin. Those who practice sin and those who do not according to John is the difference between the children of God and the children of the devil according to John in 1 John 3:6-10; 1 John 2:3-4; Revelation 12:17; Revelation 14:12; Revelation 22:14.

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You keep bringing the old covenant law to a New Covenant followers shows that you still yet to see the light...

pasifika said:

You keep bringing the old covenant law to a New Covenant followers shows that you still yet to see the light...

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According to the scriptures everyone of God's 10 commandments are repeated in the new covenant as a requirement for christian living as shown in the new covenant scriptures here and here. Your promoting a false teaching of lawlessness (without law) if you believe Gods 10 commandments are no longer the standard for Christian living and the definition of what sin is when broken *1 John 3:4; James 2:10-11. Yet it is these same new covenant scriptures that show us that the role of God's 10 commandments is to give us the knowledge of what sin is in the new covenant in Romans 3:20; Romans 7:7; 1 John 3:4 and according to James if we break anyone of them we stand guilty before God of sin in James 2:10-11. The false teachings of lawlessness (without law) is a teaching that Jesus and the Apostles never taught. It is the laws for remission of sins (Levitical Priesthood, the laws of the earthly Sanctuary, animal sacrifices and sin offerings, circumcision and the feast days) that are fulfilled and continued in the body of Christ *Colossians 2:17 in the heavenly Sanctuary that the Lords pitch and not man based on better promises of the new covenant of the law written on the heart to walk in the Spirit through faith *Hebrews 8:1-6; Hebrews 8:10-12 from Jeremiah 31:31-34; Ezekiel 36:24-27; Romans 8:1-4; Galatians 5:16. Unless we are born again to love we will not enter into God's kingdom according to the scriptures *John 3:3-7; 1 John 3:6-9. God's word does not teach anywhere that we are saved to continue in sin, it says if we continue in sin we will die (Romans 6:16; Romans 8:13; Hebrews 10:26-31; 1 John 2:3-4). The good news of the gospel is that Jesus came to save us from sin not save us to continue to practice known unrepentant sin according to Jesus in John 8:31-36. The latter are those who have a form of godliness but deny Gods power to save them from their sins according to 2 Timothy 3:5. Jesus says it is this same group of people that will be disappointed at His second coming in Matthew 7:21-23.

Something we should all pray about.

LoveGodsWord said:

See this is what I mean. You do not understand what the old covenant is or the new covenant. Everyone of God's 10 commandments are repeated in the new covenant as a requirement for christian living as shown in the new covenant scriptures here and here. Your promoting a false teaching of lawlessness. This is a teaching that Jesus and the Apostles never taught. It is the laws for remission of sins (Levitical Priesthood, the laws of the earthly Sanctuary, animal sacrifices and sin offerings, circumcision and the feast days) that are fulfilled and continued in the body of Christ *Colossians 2:17 in the heavenly Sanctuary that the Lords pitch and not man based on better promises of the new covenant of the law written on the heart to walk in the Spirit through faith *Hebrews 8:1-6; Hebrews 8:10-12 from Jeremiah 31:31-34; Ezekiel 36:24-27; Romans 8:1-4; Galatians 5:16. Unless we are born again to love we will not enter into God's kingdom according to the scriptures *John 3:3-7; 1 John 3:6-9. God's word does not teach anywhere that we are saved to continue in sin, it says if we continue in sin we will die (Romans 6:16; Romans 8:13; Hebrews 10:26-31; 1 John 2:3-4)

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Show me 7th day Sabbath commandment for Gentiles? Don't quote Hebrews 4 because I know is not talking about the 7th day but "today"..

Faith is not lawlessness but revealed Righteousness...

You promote a law that only put people to "bondage" Not "freedom"...

Old covenant = "slave woman" and those who followed are her children..(cast out bond woman and her children)

New covenant ="free woman" and those who followed are her children (children of the promise )

So we know who our mother is...

pasifika said:

Show me 7th day Sabbath commandment for Gentiles? Don't quote Hebrews 4 because I know is not talking about the 7th day but "today"..

Faith is not lawlessness but revealed Righteousness...

You promote a law that only put people to "bondage" Not "freedom"...

Old covenant = "slave woman" and those who followed are her children..(cast out bond woman and her children)

New covenant ="free woman" and those who followed are her children (children of the promise )

So we know who our mother is...

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Of course you can believe and do whatever you wish. You can also ignore the scriptures shared with you in the previous posts if you like that is between you and God. All of us stand only before God come judgement day and we will be judged according to Jesus for the Words of God we accept or reject *John 12:47-48. According to the scriptures though, gentiles are not a part of God's kingdom. Gentile believers according to the scriptures however have now been grafted in to God's ISRAEL (Romans 11:13-27) and all believers are now one in Christ *Galatians 3:28-29. God's ISRAEL in the new covenant are no longer those who are born of the flesh *Romans 9:6-8; Romans 2:28-29 from the Old covenant but all those who have born of the Spirit *John 3:3-7; 1 John 3:6-9 in the new covenant by believing and following God's Word *John 3:16. If you are now a part of God's ISRAEL you have no part in God's new covenant promise which is to ISRAEL *Hebrews 8:10-12 from Jeremiah 31:31-34 and Ezekiel 36:24-27. God's law does not put people in bondage, sin does (disobedience to God's law). All God's law does is to give us a knowledge of what sin is when we break anyone of God's 10 commandments as shown in the scriptures in Romans 3:20; Romans 7:7; 1 John 3:4; James 2:10-11. Don't forget Jesus says he who commits sin (breaking Gods commandments) is a servant to sin *John 8:34. If the son shall set you free you shall be free indeed *John 8:36. It is true faith is not lawlessness (without law). Paul says does faith abolish Gods' law in Romans 3:31 - No of course not, it establishes God's law in all those who believe and follow God's Word. Yet you teach lawlessness (without law)? No one has entered into God's new covenant of the free woman if they are still in bondage and the servant of sin knowingly breaking anyone of God's 10 commandments according to the scriptures.

Something to pray about

@pasifika writes...
Yes I recognize i cannot follow a law that I myself Or whoever follows them cant keep.but i follow a law that Christ will enable me to keep

I reject that anyone is capable of even keeping the law of love given by Jesus. The Bible says "God IS LOVE" and yet for more than 6000 years men have consistently failed in any endeavour to remain faithful to God! So the idea that law of love is any more achievable for a sinful man is a complete and utter fallacy!

Another interesting thing about your statement...do you honestly believed that your salvation is assured because you are capable of keeping laws of Love?

1. Love God
-You shall have no other gods before Me
-You shall not make for yourself an idol...You shall not bow down to them or worship them; for I, the LORD your God, am a jealous God
-You shall not take the name of the LORD your God in vain, for the LORD will not leave anyone unpunished who takes His name in vain

-Remember the Sabbath day by keeping it holy. Therefore the LORD blessed the Sabbath day and set it apart as holy

2. Love thy neighbour
-Honor your father and mother
-You shall not murder
-You shall not commit adultery
-You shall not steal
-You shall not bear false witness against your neighbour
-You shall not covet...anything that belongs to your neighbour

What i find really interesting about the 10 commandments...take a look at how they catalogue above.

And note what joins the two together...the Sabbath. Without the link between them, they are incomplete. I believe the Sabbath is a vital link between our love for God our creator, and our love for our neighbour. Without the Sabbath, we can never truly fulfil that join and we therefore are actually cutting ourselves off from God and salvation!

2John 1:5 "And now I urge you, dear lady—not as a new commandment to you, but one we have had from the beginning—that we love one another. 6And this is love, that we walk according to His commandments. This is the very commandment you have heard from the beginning, that you must walk in love. 7For many deceivers have gone out into the world, refusing to confess the coming of Jesus Christ in the flesh. Any such person is the deceiver and the antichrist."

This text is referring to laws since the beginning of time. If one was to state "Jesus gave us the new covenant" and the law of love, which is the new covenant according to that belief, was already in place since the beginning of time, then the there is a big big problem...there is nothing new here, we have always had the law of love. And of course that is true, the Law of Love is very obviously the 10 commandments!

AdamjEdgar said:

@pasifika writes...
Yes I recognize i cannot follow a law that I myself Or whoever follows them cant keep.but i follow a law that Christ will enable me to keep

I reject that anyone is capable of even keeping the law of love given by Jesus. The Bible says "God IS LOVE" and yet for more than 6000 years men have consistently failed in any endeavour to remain faithful to God! So the idea that law of love is any more achievable for a sinful man is a complete and utter fallacy!

Another interesting thing about your statement...do you honestly believed that your salvation is assured because you are capable of keeping laws of Love?

1. Love God
-You shall have no other gods before Me
-You shall not make for yourself an idol...You shall not bow down to them or worship them; for I, the LORD your God, am a jealous God
-You shall not take the name of the LORD your God in vain, for the LORD will not leave anyone unpunished who takes His name in vain

-Remember the Sabbath day by keeping it holy. Therefore the LORD blessed the Sabbath day and set it apart as holy

2. Love thy neighbour
-Honor your father and mother
-You shall not murder
-You shall not commit adultery
-You shall not steal
-You shall not bear false witness against your neighbour
-You shall not covet...anything that belongs to your neighbour

What i find really interesting about the 10 commandments...take a look at how they catalogue above.

And note what joins the two together...the Sabbath. Without the link between them, they are incomplete. I believe the Sabbath is a vital link between our love for God our creator, and our love for our neighbour. Without the Sabbath, we can never truly fulfil that join and we therefore are actually cutting ourselves off from God and salvation!

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You have written a complete misnomer. There is not one of the ten commandments that is about love. They don't express love and they were not meant to be a loving group of rules. Every one of those commandments were about the duty of every Israelite to God and their fellow man. Thou shalt not does not express love. The love commands came in the books of Deuteronomy and Leviticus and they happen to be the greatest commands given by God according to Jesus. Those where the greatest commands until Jesus gave us a new command to love others as He loves us. He loves us more than we could ever love ourselves.

2John 1:5 "And now I urge you, dear lady—not as a new commandment to you, but one we have had from the beginning—that we love one another. 6And this is love, that we walk according to His commandments. This is the very commandment you have heard from the beginning, that you must walk in love. 7For many deceivers have gone out into the world, refusing to confess the coming of Jesus Christ in the flesh. Any such person is the deceiver and the antichrist."

This text is referring to laws since the beginning of time. If one was to state "Jesus gave us the new covenant" and the law of love, which is the new covenant according to that belief, was already in place since the beginning of time, then the there is a big big problem...there is nothing new here, we have always had the law of love. And of course that is true, the Law of Love is very obviously the 10 commandments!

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Another false theory. As I have already revealed that the Ten Commandments were not about love your trying to tie them into 2 John's comments is false. The commands to love are found in the Book of the Law and not in the duties of man to God and man.

@ Bob S I think Google's algorithm disagrees with you...I entered a search for the following "are God's 10 commandments a law of love"

Here are some of the top results from that search...

10 Love Commandments - God's Law of Love

God’s Law of Love: A Spirituality of the Ten Commandments (Part 1)l

The Ten Commandments: Keys in a Law of Love

God’s Law of Love: A Spirituality of the Ten Commandments (Part 6

I also note a quote from the Catholic church in the above references...

"2190 The sabbath, which represented the completion of the first creation, has been replaced by Sunday which recalls the new creation inaugurated by the Resurrection of Christ.

2191 The Church celebrates the day of Christ’s Resurrection on the “eighth day,” Sunday, which is rightly called the Lord’s Day (cf SC 106)."

What did the book of Daniel prophecy about about changing dates and times?
Daniel 7: 24 "And the ten horns are ten kings who will rise from this kingdom. After them another king, different from the earlier ones, will rise and subdue three kings. 25He will speak out against the Most High and oppress the saints of the Most High, intending to change the appointed times and laws;