How do you do Theology?

dms1972 · May 22, 2021

prodromos said:
True theology is knowing God. A person can easily waste their entire life studying about God, yet never getting to know God. In the Orthodox Church only three or four people have been recognised as theologians, the first being St John the apostle and evangelist.

I think the question for me is: "Is it God?" How do I know God? Do I wait for Him to approach me? Do I take the initiative and try to pray? When one has explored other spiritualities (including new age) as I have to some extent - I am not sure if my experiences are of the Biblical God??

dms1972 · May 22, 2021

bling said:
I do get into discussions and have to read the books people reference, but find the author gives lots a support for his conclusion and problems with other conclusions, but this is based a lot on his personal interpretations of scripture and he leaves out the scripture references which would not support his conclusion without an explanation.

This is true with some books - but there are other writers who do make an effort to address the verses that are difficult or which come up in opposition to the conclusion they are advancing - really if they don't do this they are not doing very good theology.

Hmm · May 22, 2021

dms1972 said:
I am not sure if my experiences are of the Biblical God??

I ask myself the same question. You could compare your experiences against Jesus. I'm sure you know Him fairly well from the Bible irrespective of having explored other spiritualities. You could ask if the experience reflects something of Jesus e.g. is it promoting love, hope, peace or forgiveness.

It's also not a bad idea to ask other Christians what they think about it but it's important to remember that you have to make the final decision - it is your experience and no-one elses.

dms1972 · May 22, 2021

The Liturgist said:
As for how I do that study, I do it in a manner which I think you would approve of, which is apophatically.

Can you say a bit more about the apophatic approach?

dms1972 · May 22, 2021

Hmm said:
I ask myself the same question. You could compare your experiences against Jesus. I'm sure you know Him fairly well from the Bible irrespective of having explored other spiritualities. You could ask if the experience reflects something of Jesus e.g. is it promoting love, hope, peace or forgiveness.

It's also not a bad idea to ask other Christians what they think about it but it's important to remember that you have to make the final decision - it is your experience and no-one elses.

Years ago when I was perhaps ten or eleven I'd come close to believing after watching films like The Ten Commandments or Zeffereli's Jesus of Nazareth - but IIRC as far as some other christians at our mission hall were concerned watching a religious film wasn't the right way to come to faith - they believed faith came by or though hearing the Word.

A while ago I bought a book called Jesus Now - by Malachi Martin. Its about historical and theological deformations of Jesus, which he describes under titles like Jesus Caesar, Jesus Torquemada, Jesus Doctor, Jesus Monk etc. He talks about Jesus figures for the emotional man, and Jesus figures for the reasonable man. I haven't read it entirely and to be honest I wasn't sure I was always understanding him.

But to me this seems to be the whole problem nowadays - people can think they are in touch with Jesus and yet not be. From time to time I used to glance at a book called A Course in Miracles when I would be in a bookshop - its set like a religious text - and I used to wonder "What is this book?" and would read a paragraph or two. To be honest - part of me would have liked to buy it and get into it - but I held back - I kinda knew there was something off about it - but I felt spiritually ambivalent also. Even the little I did read I think affected my way of thinking. Anyway I know from reading about it online that the two authors of it believed they were channeling Jesus or that Jesus communicated it to them or something - however its pretty much a New Age text. I am not persuaded that it came from Jesus. But I still experience a sort of spiritial ambivalence about it.

zoidar · May 22, 2021

dms1972 said:
I assume at least some people posting here are fairly well read in Theology?? - I myself would not claim to have a large knowledge but I know a little bit about several theologies or theologians but usually that is in regard to some of the points of controversy.

So how do you do Theology and does everyone have to study it?

Is it not the case the most people follow or adhere to some particular theology or theologian, but how does one know that theologian is correct? People tend to say one theologian is wrong because they already are persuaded by another one. So does it just come down to the church you grew up in or the first theologian you read? For instance people introduced to Calvin become persuaded very quickly Calvin is Biblical - but might they not have become persuaded some other theologian with a different view was Biblical if they'd been introduced to him or her first?

I'm far from an expert in theology. What I have found is that context is very important. To understand one verse we often need to read whole passages or whole chapters or more. It's good to know the orginals didn't have chapters.
Reading the chapter before and after the one we are going to study is often helpful.

I use NASB which I have found to be close the original texts, and I also compare it with other Bibles. Sometimes I use an interlinear Bible trying to get the original meaning. It's also useful to get a picture of the situation at the time the book was written, looking for the "why" and the "what".

Another tool is looking into the writings of the Early Church fathers, see if there is something there about the Bible text you are studying. What I don't do is reading through the lens of one particular group of Christians, but rather see what view different denominations and churches hold.

Clare73 · May 22, 2021

dms1972 said:
I agree if one's understanding turned out to be without precedent - there would likely be a problem with it. But how does one arrive at an understanding?

When I read a verse say about man being made in the Image of God, should I simultaneously know what it means, and understand it? Or do I need to believe before I understand?

Sometimes I have discussions with my mum and she'll sometimes mention we are made in the Image of God. And I'll say what does that mean? And she struggles to give an answer. She believes the Bible all right. But this sort of believing Bible well it doesn't seem to result in understanding is my impression at times. Now I have to go to Theology do I not to find out what things like that mean in more detail - or I suppose I could pray and ask God? I am sorry but what I find at times are christians repeating the Bible quite a bit without knowing what it means. I probably have done that myself.

From reading I know what several theologians say it (creation in the Image of God) means and there is some variety amongst them. Perhaps it has a plenitude of meaning - and thats why its not easy to sum-up in a few words. Theologian Philip Edgecumbe Hughes finds six aspects to what it means!

I hear you. . .

Reading the whole Bible from Genesis 1:1 to Bonded Leather has a real way of answering your questions.

bling · May 22, 2021

The Liturgist said:
Actually, I would argue that, tragically, we don’t know how many members of the Chinese house churches are actual Christians or instead believe false doctrines..

I have not personally gone to Communist China and do not speak Chinese; I have relatives who do speak Chinese fluently and have spent much time in China. I have many friends in China now, communicate weekly and have supported house Church members when I can. Have a wonderful Chinese couple converted here going back this summer permanently, to be with some house Church members there in China.

The consistency in these house churches doctrine is the result of the Communists. Twenty years ago, the Communist can out with a published long list of what “could not be taught in Christian Churches”. The list included: Could not teach Jesus is the Son of God, judgement, heaven and hell, Christ went to the cross, water immersion believer baptism, and so on. That long list became the list for what the unregistered Church teaches, so being in agreement on those things leaves little to be in disagreement with.

False teachers need a good reason teach something false and it usually has to do with: money, fame, and power, but there is no money to pay the house church leader, fame brings the government knocking and the influential are jailed or worse. The false teacher is putting his life on the line for what?

I think you underestimate the power of the Spirit in all this.

The Liturgist said:
The problem with your nuda scriptura approach is that you can seat a dozen people in a room, ask them to interpret a verse, even give them a robust exegetical method, and still get twelve different answers. Scripture is not self-explanatory, hence the warnings of the Apostle Paul in Galatians and 2 Thessalonians.

bling · May 22, 2021

dms1972 said:
But you commentate on scripture too - you say what you think it means.

For instance you have said several times in discussions that when Jesus said "You must be born again" he was telling us we need to do something - but you have not explained how you have come to that conclusion - you have said if I recall correctly something like if one thinks carefully about it one will see this - but what you are saying is you have thought it through carefully and come to that conclusion - but you don't explain how you arrived at your conclusion. Perhaps you mean one has to do something like repent before we are born again? That repentance precedes regeneration in your ordo salutis? But you don't explain your conclusion - you seem to assume if we think it through we will arrive at the same conclusion as you do.

I am just quoting what Jesus said: John 3:3 Jesus replied, “Very truly I tell you, no one can see the kingdom of God unless they are born again.

You can question who all is included in the “no one can”?

Is seeing the Kingdom mean in this life or in this life and the next life?

What is born again and what do you do to be born again?

You are right to say: “I do not give you my conclusion”, because it is my conclusion and you have to come up with your conclusion and you might help me develop a better conclusion.

What ever we conclude it has to be consistent with scripture especial what Jesus said.

dms1972 said:
You've expressed before in other threads what you think of commentaries (which are not quite the same thing as theology), and I kind of understand - I have been a bit "Me and the Bible and no one else" at times also. But I think its safer to see what others have said also. So I won't be discarding commentaries completely - I believe there are some helpful ones - and I like William Barclay's Daily Study Bible - for the background knowledge of the New Testament times he gives.

I study mostly with nonbelievers, Muslims have their Muslim Bible scholars with on line material, LDS have their Commentaries, Catholic have theirs, Atheists have theirs and so on. If I bring up what some commentary said, I am also giving them permission to quote their commentaries. I spent too much time looking up reading and studying what some dead writer wrote already, because a student brought it up.

dms1972 · May 24, 2021

bling said:
I study mostly with nonbelievers, Muslims have their Muslim Bible scholars with on line material, LDS have their Commentaries, Catholic have theirs, Atheists have theirs and so on. If I bring up what some commentary said, I am also giving them permission to quote their commentaries. I spent too much time looking up reading and studying what some dead writer wrote already, because a student brought it up.

What is it you are studying? Do you mean Bible studies for non-believers, or are you involved in academic study?

TedT · May 24, 2021

dms1972 said:
So does it just come down to the church you grew up in or the first theologian you read?

Good morning,
I left Christianity when I left my childhood church behind, never to return to that denomination. After deciding to seek HIM about 40 years ago, I have changed theological coats any times trying out the various points of view to feel what fit for me.

Only the theology of our Pre-Conception Existence gave me rest by answering the questions about the blasphemies I found in orthodoxy (often eisegetically reconciled by merely labelling them mysteries) that caused me to seek GOD HIMself on the matter.

bling · May 24, 2021

dms1972 said:
What is it you are studying? Do you mean Bible studies for non-believers, or are you involved in academic study?

Bible studies.

dms1972 · May 24, 2021

bling said:
Bible studies.

Are you doing this on your own , or as part of a church, do you have other christians with you?

Presbyterian Continuist · May 25, 2021

If you want to know the will of God, read the Bible.
If you want to do the will of God, do the Bible.

How do you do Theology?

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