Demons

Last words(summary):

The evil is not primarely a theoretical problem, but a practical problem.
Though uncountable theoretic blindtracks shuts down the elementaric insight: Evil doesn't primarely belongs to theology, in nature or societysciences, barely in philosophy, but in a concrete moral and politic area. We cannot understand and fight evil as long as we realize it as something abstract and unfamiliar.
In theology, closer: theodiée, one try and save the imagianation of a God, an allmighty God, but this rescue try happens almost without exception on the expense on the acnowledgement of the reality of evil, easily with that everything is "really" good, or is transformed to something good, in a divine perspective - and this is to explain away the reality of evil. We shall not reconcile with the evil, but try doing something about it. It's partly why I mean all theodicées are of the evil, because they in height can contribute to such an reconcilement.
The real question isn't "What is the evil?" but "How do we do evil?"
The answer is that we does it because of several reasons. A human can have several different motifs for doing evil. But it doesn't do evil 'because' it's evil, and this form of evil, the demonic evil, should turned down as a myth. Meanwhile it's the demonic evil who often represents the nature of evil. The problem with looking at demonic evil as the essential evil is that then the evil becomes unfamiliar/unknown for us - it's really not how we realize ourself anyhow. The problem with the focus on the demonic evil is not theoretic, but practical, because it shuts out our own insight in what potential each and one of us has for doing evil.
Sometimes, we do the evil, well known that we are doing evil, because doing so helps us subjectivly. The instrumentally evil has understood what is evil and good, but choose to put away the good because of consideration of self. This instrumental evil is only a part of the evil actions we do though. We also have idealistic and stupidity evil, were a actor either is motivated by an conviction of objectiv good, or doesn't reflect upon good or evil at all. Nobody is beyond evil.
We have all done evil in the mentioned categories, even if we haven't acnowlidged these actions as evil. The most of us has done evil in small terms, but each one of us could have done it in big terms. The evil isn't just 'the others', but also 'us' .
The human kinds biggest problem isn't that much an overflow of agression as it is an lack of reflection. This lack leads us to join in the most insane abuses on the next guy/girl. The egoism lies the reasons for far less murders and abuses than the unreflected, nonsubjectivly devotion to an 'higher' cause. And the indifference demands even more victims - not the least to people that isn't close to us. The indifference doesn't just show in acts of violence and so on, but equal terms into the fact that 1.2 billion people lives in utter poordom, and that millions of people dies of hunger each year.
The evil isn't a superior problem, but uncounted concrete problems - situations where we are put to the test as free, reflected and acting entities. I started this book by stating it's easier to do evil than good.
The final question is really just what we choose to 'do'.


- Lars Fr. H. Svendsen (prior-amanuensis in philosophy, University in Bergen)

Hey didaskalos,

We have not seen you in awhile.

I voted "yes" that I have done it. . . but I was not alone. I was actually more a participant in the background, but definately participating

The first time, there was a women who had just been saved only a few weeks.  She had previously served budda.  During the worship service, which in my church get's pretty lively and intense, she began to manifest in an innapropriate way of dancing (we are one of those churches )

The Pastor responded by walking up to her and just laying his hand on her head and she went down on the floor (I told you it's one of those churches ).  She lay still for some time and we went on with worship, then she started doing inapropriate things while she lay on the floor. 

Then another Pastor and several others approached her and began to cast it out.  She started making all kinds of noises and it was not pretty.  She was not trying to get up but she was attempting to take leud positions. 

Anyway, as ladies rushed to cover her up with cloths, several others began casting the demon (s) out.  They finely carried her out to another room. 

When she came back the difference in her face was dramatic.  She practically glowed with the light of Jesus.  Today, she is the most inthusiastic and bubbly for Jesus person I've ever met.  Everywhere she goes she tells people what Jesus did for her.

Wow. God is so awesome.

I've not participated in as many as I've heard about. One of the Pastors in my church who does a lot of street ministry has a lot of good stories of casting demons out.

Several times with him, he's just minding his own business while shopping or eating out and someone in the same vicinity begins creating a commotion regarding him.

One day, he and another brother from the church were standing in line at a Subway Sandwich Shop, when the woman in front of them turned around and glared at them and started yelling at them to "leave us alone". Of course the whole restraunt became quiet. Nelson told the demon to shut up and asked the women if she wanted to accept Jesus as her Savior and be delivered. Through clenched teeth she said "NO". Then Nelson, acknowledging the demon said, "then get out of my face". The woman fled from the restaurant. And of course, Nelson, got to share Jesus with a lot of people in the restraunt.

Well, I have never see it done publically. But the EPC I used to attend had a "delieverance ministry" and I always took his classes as he was a very humble and modest associate pastor who did this "delieverance." It was a very low key ministry because the church did not want to make have it "sensationalized" publically and loose it credibility. The case studies the pastor told was astonishing!!!!

However, when the new Senior Pastor came and took over, a conflict arose between this associate pastor and the senior pastor basically over jealousy. It was very sad to see the associate pastor go and I miss sitting under his teaching. Ah, well.

A friend of mine used to be a pastor.  He caught his wife cheating on him and chased the man down the street.  Since that day he had a sleeping disorder.  He had to sleep with a machine that would blow oxegen in his face all night, otherwise he would stop breathing and feel as if he was being choked.

My bishop was ministering to him on this issue.  We discovered that on that day he started desiring to kill that man.  He had pushed that desire down and moved on with his life.  He left the ministery and his wife came to our church.  The bishop that proceded to cast a demon of death out of my friend, after he had repented of the desires and sins that opened him up to the demon.  The demon would not leave until he had repented.

Since that day he has never need to use the machine.  I was a witness of these activities.  It was cool.

I went from pot smoking, alcohol drinking, cigarette fiending to nothing but Jesus after having people lay hands on me and praying for me, and once I confessed that Jesus is Lord, my life was never the same. I believe that I was under the powers of darkness and was freed. Glory to God!

3rd April 2003 at 10:43 PM JesusServant said this in Post #8

I went from pot smoking, alcohol drinking, cigarette fiending to nothing but Jesus after having people lay hands on me and praying for me, and once I confessed that Jesus is Lord, my life was never the same. I believe that I was under the powers of darkness and was freed. Glory to God!

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[updown] Praising Jesus with you JesusServant! [/updown]

Thanks Quaffer!

my husband can see demons sometimes. I have sat in on several spec ed. meeting for students at my school and some of the social histories have sounded like cases od demon influence if nor possesion. i mentioned that once andd the two women I said it to thought I was nuts. they are both religous but i don t know if they are saved.

I used to think that most stuff about demons and evil spirits was a load of bunkum. Then I went to Africa! (Short term mission to Mozambique last summer). There was certainly one occasion where we were praying and counceling when a women started manifesting and attacking the preacher. There was quite a struggle between them, which eventually seemed to subside. There was also other tales, such as a woman who used to have had epilepsy and was healed after being prayed for. Later, she took her sick baby to a witch doctor, and the epilepsy came back. These and other occurencies convinced me of the very imediate reality of the spirit world! It has been interesting to here these stories from western countries, praise God for all He has done!

I hope you are not implying that a person with epilepsy has a demon. My daughter has a seizure disorder and she is a born again believer.

I would like to hear more stories of people being set free from demonic oppression....

While I am NOT downplaying the power of demons, I must warn everyone here that the power of suggestion can be just as powerful. Someone who is told they have a spirit of (fill in the blank) may manifest even if they do not have any demons at all. Also, we can seriously cause someone major harm by assuming an illness to be demonic when it is NOT.

We must be careful to discern between demonic incidents, mental/physical illness, and pseudo-demonic incidents caused by the power of suggestion in combination with illness or other natural phenomena.

A hypothetical example of a genuine demonic incident would be someone bursting out into screams of exaltation for the devil in a church service.

A hypothetical example of illness would be someone with depression or epilepsy but who has a genuine Christian faith and is not manifesting anything specifically besides illness symptoms.

A hypothetical example of a pseudo-demonic incident caused by the power of suggestion in combination with illness or other natural phenomena would be if someone suddenly had seizures from being exposed to a strobe light (one form of seizure disorder causes this), a "spiritual warrior" assumed that there must have been demons involved, proceeded to conduct an unsuccessful exorcism (since it wasn't demonic in the first place, there's nothing to cast out), and then proceeded to tell the person that he/she was still possessed or a "hard case."

My father has a masters in psycology. He believed for a long time as you do. But as God started using him more and more to accually deliver people from their problems, he discarded these usless ideas of mental illness and imbraced the scriptures.

I seem to remember Jesus casting a demon out of a boy with epilepsy.

One might also say that in the testimony that I gave that there was no demon because it was just a sleeping disorder, and that there were no manifestation.

But how do you really know if a so called disorder doesn't involve a demon?
You only believe this because the world taught you that there was no demon. But how do they know? They don't even believe in demons. If people are getting healed from epilepsy by casting out a demon, then doesn't that suggest that a demon must be involved.

Believe the evidence, not the doctors theories.

Why would you believe that these doctors know more about the human condition that the Bible does?

I knew a young man who suffered from depression. Every six months it would hit him.
One of these times I started to question him about why he was depressed. He said that there wasn't a reason that this just happens to him every six months. After further inquiry we discovered that accually he was depressed because he was afraid that his girl friend didn't really love him. He talked with his girlfriend and his depression left imediately. Six months later he was depressed again.

After some more inquiry I discovered that again he was afraid of something. He thought that his girlfriend would eventually leave him because he wasn't good enough for her. Again I told him to talk to his girlfriend, and again the depression lifted.

I told him that there was no such thing a depression. That what it really was was fear. I said that if he would confront the fear and talk to the person he was afraid of losing that he would never face fear again.

After meeting me he had discovered that there was always a reason for depression and that he didn't have to be depressed. This young man has gone a year and a half without haveing to live with depression because I ministered the truth to him instead of sending him to a quack. The truth of the word.

Sorry, I sould have qualified myself

This woman was suffering from some kind of siezures, which from what she said seemed to be caused by demonic influence.  I have no idea whether what she had could be properly called epilepsy, I should not have used the term as I do not know what the precise medical meaning is.

I would definately agree that it is a mistake to be looking for demons everywhere, but I think that most Christians in western countries lean too far the other way, not giving any thought to demonic influence at all.