How to walk in the Spirit.

Sidon said:

Trying to be an Old Testament Lawkeeper, does not work in the New Testament Church.

The NT has replaced the Old Covenant that you are trying to keep.

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God's law never been removed, jesus said i've come not to remove the law.
When you go to heaven everything will happen to you according to God's law. God's law is active for spirits and for humans!

Sidon said:

So, you don't accept that the Blood of God keeps you saved?
Is this because you believe that you keep yourself saved?

Let me ask you a question.

Can you explain why the BLood of Jesus that saves the born again, keeps them Saved?

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The blood of the Lamb keeps one saved as long as they do not fall away. Jesus Christ of Nazareth consistantly warned us that the flesh is weak and can be decieved , leading some on the wide road of destruction. This is why we need to put on the full armor of God, pray without ceasing, walk in His Spirit daily, be prepared, love one another, forgive one another, be wise as serpents and gentle as lambs, stay the course, hold fast, keep in the faith, etc. Satan comes a roaring lion ready to devour those who are weak in faith and fall away into deception. Apostasy abounds.
OSAS leads to hypocrisy. Here are many verses of what I am speaking of:
What Does the Bible Say About Falling Away?

Blessings.

Sidon said:

Yes, you have an idea of God's Righteousness, but you mix it into legalism, by trying to prove that you, are only as saved, as you are good.
In other words, you are teaching that the Blood of Jesus is only as good as you are.... its only effective, as long as you try to be good.

And that's not "the Gift of Salvation".......you are explaining.
As God's Grace is not ....as you are continuing to try to prove..... The CROSS + being good.

Listen, we are not saved because we are good,.....we are saved and kept saved because GOD came down hear and EARNED our reconciliation, and gave it to us as "the GIFT of Salvation", and "the GIFT of Righteousness"

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You fail to fully understand justification. If the blood of Jesus doesn’t make me good, then I’m not justified.

Sidon said:

The born again don't go to heaven by being "love perfected", . the born again go to heaven by being "ONE WITH GOD", and "Made Righteous", and that happens the very SECOND a person is born again.

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There's no difference, to be perfected in love is to be one with God, fully, and made completely righteous, excluding sin, as "love fulfills the law". And as Scripture is clear about, sinners don't enter heaven. If born again people are honest they admit that they still struggle with sin, which means, in truth, that they still struggle with whether or not they wish to be one with God. The greatest commandment is not yet fully fulfilled in them to put it another way. Salvation is a journey, and a good one, not merely and strictly a one-time event.

Sidon said:

And its the same with the born again.
God saves us, not because we work for it, or work after we are saved.
Our works are filthy, because they are self effort.
No self effort is accepted as Righteousness.
No LAW can give you righteousness.

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The works of the born again, as long as they're done in faith, meaning in communion with God as we remain in Him, are not filthy rags-they're the works with which we work out our salvation, in fact, in cooperation with Him: works of grace. Are the "good works, that God prepared beforehand" (Eph 2:10), filthy rags? Are those things done for the "least of these" in Matt 25 which serve as criteria by which God separates the sheep from the goats, filthy rags? Is the good that we must do to realize eternal life according to Rom 2:7 a filthy rag? Is putting "to death the deeds of the body [flesh]" (Rom 8:12-13) so that we may live, a filthy rag? Is obeying the ten commandments in order to enter life as Jesus instructed the rich young ruler necessarily and always, a filthy rag?

The difference between the old and new covenants isn't that, with the new, we're suddenly no longer required to do anything but believe, as if personal righteousness was no longer an obligation for man, an obligation that keeps him from earning death, the wages of sin. The difference is one thing: communion with God, apart from whom we can do nothing but with whom all things are possible. Not ME, alone (as if I possessed any real righteousness on my own), but me in union with my CREATOR, which is the right and just order of things for man. And this communion is entered into and realized by faith.

Sidon said:

The born again........not just the water baptized, but the BORN AGAIN, are as righteous as the BLood of God., which is the blood atonement.

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To stick with the kind of wording you used, they are covered by the blood of Christ and so are considered by God to be righteous for that reason.

Sidon said:

Am i responsible for you not understanding what i have answered?
I can't learn it for you, i can only teach it to you.
Understand?

So, read this verse..
Romans 4:8.
Its says that God does not charge sin to the born again, ever again.
Learn why this is, fhansen, and you will have discovered what you need to know, that i have explained to you about 20 times, in that many posts, already.

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No, you haven't just come out an put your cards on the table clearly so that we can proceed from there. I believe I get what you're hinting at but the question is very simple. Do you still sin?

The question of whether or not our sins are counted against us is a separate one. And the reason that they're not counted against us is simple: God forgives all past sins and we start a new life, in a partnership or fellowship with Him within which overcoming sin is now possible-because of the righteousness that is intrinsic to that relationship. It's all about who we rub elbows with, and continue to rub elbows with. Becoming born again puts us in with the right crowd, the family of God, man's true home. Whether or not we continue to embrace and live by the family values is born out by the way we live our own lives from then on, with whatever time and opportunity and gifts and grace and tests and challenges we may have. Past sins are forgotten so there's no more sin to be counted against us to the extent that we remain in Christ, doing God's will, 'going and sinning no more' as Jesus instructed the woman caught in adultery.

Walking in the Spirit is outlined, as one example, in Rom 8:12-13. IOW, talk is cheap and what we do counts, not just some self-assessed opinion regarding our status in God's eyes and ours.

Sidon said:

If you will study a little bit more, those verses in James, you will discover the context of your verse, you posted, as you don't understand it, yet.

Here is the context.

James speaking......>"i will show YOU YOU YOU my faith, by my works"..

So, that is the context of your verse........Its James showing the people who are watching him, his works, that prove his faith.

So, your verse, and the one i posted, are a context......They are all about fruit bearing in front of other people, as this is proof you dont have "dead faith".

James says.....>"i'll show YOU my works"..
And he does not say...."I'll show GOD my works".

So, your verse, is talking about public fruit bearing, as how else can anyone see your faith, if you have no fruit, no spiritual fruit, = no works.

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Nah. James was already concerned with the same thing that myself and others are concerned with now-the potential divorcing of justification, by the new way-under the New Covenant IOW- from the obligation for man to be actually and personally just/righteous. He recognized that some were understanding that faith now opened the door to virtual libertinism, that it no longer mattered what we did, but only what we believed. So verse 2:24 of his letter stands fine on its own:
“You see that a person is considered righteous by what they do and not by faith alone.”

And is echoed by Paul and John:
“To those who by persistence in doing good seek glory, honor and immortality, he will give eternal life.” Rom 2:7

“For it is not those who hear the law who are righteous in God’s sight, but it is those who obey the law who will be declared righteous.” Rom 2:13

“Dear children, do not let anyone lead you astray. The one who does what is right is righteous, just as He is righteous.” 1 John 3:7

Prior to justification man can do nothing, other than to accept the gift of faith and express it. That places him in right stead and order with God, and this new life in the Spirit is born. We’re forgiven, cleansed, made new creations. And because, as per God’s determination, the will of man is involved from beginning to end, no matter how weakly at first, in that he can say “no” at any step along the way; man can still fail, he can return to preferring himself over God, to evil and death rather than continuing to choose the good and life; he can fail to persevere, he can turn back away from God and be excluded from His family, and die. But to the extent that he picks up his cross daily and follows Jesus, that he proceeds to heed and do God's will to the best of his abilities, by the Spirit with His continuous help of grace, probably backsliding at times but maintaining and even advancing farther ahead in righteousness in the overall scheme of things, in the love that opposes evil by its nature, then he's persevered in the faith, and lives.

To sum it up again, as taught by the church,
“At the evening of life we shall be judged on our love.”

Love of God and neighbor is the work God endeavors to accomplish in us.

We have to understand that everything is of grace, including our very existence to begin with. So both the faith that God gives in order to bring us into relationship with Him and the works that He now gives us to remain and grow in that relationship, and any other virtues such as hope and love or any other such gifts are of grace, are of Him. Everything God creates and does is good. Evil is anything that lies outside of His good creation and His will. To refuse His grace is to oppose His will.

fhansen said:

No, you haven't just come out an put your cards on the table clearly so that we can proceed from there. I believe I get what you're hinting at but the question is very simple. Do you still sin?

The question of whether or not our sins are counted against us is a separate one. And the reason that they're not counted against us is simple: God forgives all past sins and we start a new life, in a partnership or fellowship with Him within which overcoming sin is now possible-because of the righteousness that is intrinsic to that relationship. It's all about who we rub elbows with, and continue to rub elbows with. Becoming born again puts us in with the right crowd, the family of God, man's true home. Whether or not we continue to embrace and live by the family values is born out by the way we live our own lives from then on, with whatever time and opportunity and gifts and grace and tests and challenges we may have. Past sins are forgotten so there's no more sin to be counted against us to the extent that we remain in Christ, doing God's will, 'going and sinning no more' as Jesus instructed the woman caught in adultery.

Walking in the Spirit is outlined, as one example, in Rom 8:12-13. IOW, talk is cheap and what we do counts, not just some self-assessed opinion regarding our status in God's eyes and ours.

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This gets a bit confusing, because if only past sins are forgiven and forgotten, there's still a lifetime ahead. If someone becomes born again when they're 10 and they live until they're 80; what difference does it make if only what they did up until they were only 10 was forgiven and forgotten?

And also it sounds like that person's salvation was determined by how temperate their lifestyle was.

You say if they obey the Ten Commandments, but if someone just has a lustful thought, they've committed adultery. If they have a flash of hatred they've committed murder. Most everyone says God's name in vain in a momentary flash of anger or distress, even if under their breath or in their mind. Most everyone manages to steal, even if it's just something like taking a paperclip home from work. Everyone lies, even if it's a "little white lie". Everyone covets.

In other words, no matter how squeaky clean a person's lifestyle is, they'll still end up breaking the commandments throughout their life.

MMXX said:

This gets a bit confusing, because if only past sins are forgiven and forgotten, there's still a lifetime ahead. If someone becomes born again when they're 10 and they live until they're 80; what difference does it make if only what they did up until they were only 10 was forgiven and forgotten?

And also it sounds like that person's salvation was determined by how temperate their lifestyle was.

You say if they obey the Ten Commandments, but if someone just has a lustful thought, they've committed adultery. If they have a flash of hatred they've committed murder. Most everyone says God's name in vain in a momentary flash of anger or distress, even if under their breath or in their mind. Most everyone manages to steal, even if it's just something like taking a paperclip home from work. Everyone lies, even if it's a "little white lie". Everyone covets.

In other words, no matter how squeaky clean a person's lifestyle is, they'll still end up breaking the commandments throughout their life.

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Ok, so sin or unrighteousness is alright now? Is that what the new covenant is all about? Is wanton, atrocious evil ok then, as long as we believe, since, after all, if we break the law on one point we've broken it on all points anyway, as they say? And, if not, where do we draw the line?

For its part the Catholic church addressees this matter practically and head-on. Even as believers we'll struggle with sin, we'll still deal with "concupiscence" as its called. We're not yet perfected in righteousness, in love to put it exactly, and in this life while still in the body it's expected that we will sin. But we're also expected to grow in holiness overall, drawing nearer to God rather than farther away at the end of the day. As believers we've embarked on a journey, and we need to stay on the right path, on God's path.

But there are some sins that, by their nature, are so serious or grave that they constitute a radical straying from that path, a turning away from God and back to the flesh as we persist in them. They're said to be directly opposed to love of God and neighbor and destroy love in us. This is "sin that leads to death" (1 John 5:16), i.e. deadly sin, i.e. "mortal sin". Scripture warns us of these sins and the fact that they'll keep us from entering heaven-and lists some of them.

However, we can, with an authentically contrite heart, experience metanoia and turn back in repentance to God who's always waiting with the open arms of forgiveness. If we don't do so we only prove that we really don't care anyway.

fhansen said:

Ok, so sin or unrighteousness is alright now? Is that what the new covenant is all about? Is wanton, atrocious evil ok then, as long as we believe, since, after all, if we break the law on one point we've broken it on all points anyway, as they say? And, if not, where do we draw the line?

For its part the Catholic church addressees this matter practically and head-on. Even as believers we'll struggle with sin, we'll still deal with "concupiscence" as its called. We're not yet perfected in righteousness, in love to put it exactly, and in this life while still in the body it's expected that we will sin. But we're also expected to grow in holiness overall, drawing nearer to God rather than farther away at the end of the day. As believers we've embarked on a journey, and we need to stay on the right path, on God's path.

But there are some sins that, by their nature, are so serious or grave that they constitute a radical straying from that path, a turning away from God and back to the flesh as we persist in them. They're said to be directly opposed to love of God and neighbor and destroy love in us. This is "sin that leads to death" (1 John 5:16), i.e. deadly sin, i.e. "mortal sin". Scripture warns us of these sins and the fact that they'll keep us from entering heaven-and lists some of them.

However, we can, with an authentically contrite heart, experience metanoia and turn back in repentance to God who's always waiting with the open arms of forgiveness. If we don't do so we only prove that we really don't care anyway.

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Those I know of who struggle over this, don't think in terms of mortal vs venial sins. Like I said, the Bible says thoughts alone are on the level of adultery and murder etc. So from that perspective all sin is death (Romans 6:23). Not just some kinds of sin, but all sin no matter how minor. So, no, it's not about "how much sin can I get away with?", because sin is appalling. It's "How can I or anyone possibly come anywhere close to being good enough to merit salvation?".

MMXX said:

Those I know of who struggle over this, don't think in terms of mortal vs venial sins. Like I said, the Bible says thoughts alone are on the level of adultery and murder etc. So all sin is death (Romans 6:23). Not just some kinds of sin, but all sin no matter how minor. So, no, it's not about "how much sin can I get away with?", because sin is appalling. It's "How can I or anyone possibly be good enough to merit salvation?".

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Well, God didn’t create anyone to sin. And the real problem or injustice with fallen man is his separation from his creator. And the reason Jesus came was to reconcile us with our creator, with whom all things are possible. So...aren’t we limiting God by asking how can I be “good enough”? Maybe it’s because He wants us good enough? Or does He want us bad? Sometimes I think some Christians almost pride themselves in being -and admitting to being- bad. ”Look at me God, what an awful sinner I am”. “Look at me God, what an awful sinner I am.” “Look at me God, what an awful (and humble) sinner I am.”

Until God might finally say, “Ok, enough! That was good, now let’s move on from there please! I’m trying to get you better than that. Contrition with repentance is step one, people. And, incidentally, while I’d prefer perfection here, good enough is way better to Me than you sitting on your rears and staying where you were, like that wicked and lazy servant burying his talents and all. I want something out of you after all we’ve done for you. And I’ll help you get there BTW.” That’s awfully good news.

“This is the message we have heard from Him and declare to you: God is light; in Him there is no darkness at all. If we claim to have fellowship with Him and yet walk in the darkness, we lie and do not live out the truth. But if we walk in the light, as He is in the light, we have fellowship with one another, and the blood of Jesus, his Son, purifies us from all sin.

If we claim to be without sin, we deceive ourselves and the truth is not in us. If we confess our sins, He is faithful and just and will forgive us our sins and purify us from all unrighteousness. If we claim we have not sinned, we make Him out to be a liar and His word is not in us.” 1 John 1:5-10

“But you know that He appeared so that He might take away our sins. And in Him is no sin.” 1 John 3:5

So God, being infinitely merciful, can certainly overlook less grievous sins for now, and while even a white lie is a gross anomaly in His creation, it’s certainly a far cut better than the torture and murder of a child. So, I’d ask, if instead sin is now sort of “ok”, with sin no longer of any concern with God, is there then no degree or amount of sin that’s not too much? Certainly there’ll be no sinners in heaven. So something changes somewhere along the line.

And I’m only saying that the change, towards righteousness, must begin here. To Virginia I’d say, “Yes Virginia, sorry, but we expect you to get on board here. You’re still obligated to actually be righteous, to love, really, if I may cut to the chase here. So sorry, I know that’s a burden. It’s really not a heavy one though, since I shoulder 99% of the weight. I just really want you to carry a little bit at least, because I want you to be like Me, to want what I want, to love as I do. And to know my happiness. I’ll give you the strength. If you follow Me.”