Christian college must now allow opposite sex people in the showers

Status
Not open for further replies.

Swan7

Made in the image of His Grace
Site Supporter
Aug 3, 2014
9,158
7,354
Forever Summer
✟435,986.00
Country
United States
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
As for Lot, it is my belief that he was offering God's Way of things, His design and will that a man should be with a woman. Would God turn a blind eye to rape? Absolutely not. Lust is still lust, after all.
 
  • Friendly
Reactions: Toro
Upvote 0

DerSchweik

Spend time in His Word - every day
Aug 31, 2007
70,184
161,375
Right of center
✟1,879,104.00
Country
United States
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Married
no, I'm referring to the original Greek phrase "ἀπέρχομαι ὀπίσω σαρκὸς ἑτέρας" literally to go after strange flesh. the phrase also appears in reference to when Angel's (the sons of God) flew down to earth to have sex with human women the daughters of eve.
...and the phrase also refers to people, not angels:
Matthew 5:9 Blessed are the peacemakers, for they shall be called sons of God.
Romans 8:14 For all who are being led by the Spirit of God, these are sons of God.
Galatians 3:26 For you are all sons of God through faith in Christ Jesus.
 
Upvote 0

rjs330

Well-Known Member
CF Ambassadors
May 22, 2015
22,488
6,053
64
✟336,444.00
Faith
Pentecostal
actually is says they went after strange flesh, which is sex between humans and angels not homosexuality or transsexuality

When you study the scripture you understand that it absolutely referred to homosexual acts among other wickedness.
 
Upvote 0

rjs330

Well-Known Member
CF Ambassadors
May 22, 2015
22,488
6,053
64
✟336,444.00
Faith
Pentecostal
And note that this doesn't back up your claim.



You mean like how I mentioned rape gangs earlier?

-CryptoLutheran

Absolutely it does. A study of the incident along with all the other scriptures is absolute proof. Unless of course one doesn't accept scripture as evidence. God was judging Sodom BEFORE the angels went. Therefore it is proof positive it was about gang rape. And Jude just verifies that.
 
  • Agree
Reactions: Darkhorse
Upvote 0

hedrick

Senior Veteran
Site Supporter
Feb 8, 2009
20,250
10,567
New Jersey
✟1,148,308.00
Faith
Presbyterian
Marital Status
Single
The source of this post is listed as very questionable.
In the days of the Bible, news was spread by word of mouth. By not checking the source of what we hear and read before forwarding it on, we do just what James warns against in his 3rd chapter:


5 Even so the tongue is a little member, and boasteth great things. Behold, how great a matter a little fire kindleth!

6 And the tongue is a fire, a world of iniquity: so is the tongue among our members, that it defileth the whole body, and setteth on fire the course of nature; and it is set on fire of hell.
I’ve been able to verify the story from other sources, mostly. It’s mainly the headline that is false, though the story is probably a bit misleading. If the college allowed trans students they would need to treat them as their actual gender. But they don’t, and they can’t be forced to. There is an exception in the non discrimination law for religious schools. So they are not going to be forced to do anything. Hence the headline and the title of this thread are false.
 
Upvote 0

ViaCrucis

Confessional Lutheran
Oct 2, 2011
37,427
26,867
Pacific Northwest
✟731,303.00
Country
United States
Faith
Lutheran
Marital Status
In Relationship
Politics
US-Others

Really. Feel free to compare this situation with the situation in Judges 19.

Sex wasn't the point. Violence was the point.

And this really demonstrates a fundamental miss in so many people's minds today: Rape is not about sex, it's about violence.

These stories are not here to teach us that gay people have cooties, but to demonstrate a people so depraved and perverse that the way they treat outsiders, visitors, is to go out to intentionally commit severe violent acts.

I think it also telling that when modern people read these stories, the thing that they find shocking and horrific in these stories isn't the horrific acts of violence, but sex.

Reading the story of Sodom and Gomorrah--or the story of the Levite in Gibeah for that matter--as though the matter at hand is sex, rather than violence, is symptomatic of a deeply perverse mind that finds sexuality more horrible than acts of violence. Though this is already evident in the way so much of our modern culture has been shaped in such a way that we should not even wince when a man is murdered in cold blood, but voice all manner of outrage over "female-presenting nipples" or, horror of all horrors, unisex bathrooms.

No, it doesn't. Nor does the "man in question need to be a rapist - he just needs to be a fallen man, corrupt in the flesh, given to his fleshly nature... iow, a man.

Hi. Y-chromosome bearing human male here. I've never had any impulse to commit sexual assault against anyone.

The fact that I'm having to continue to point out that rape and sex are very, very different things feels like that there is a much larger, and far more important conversation to be had here.

Perhaps not 100% of the time.

But then, it does involve sex... pretty much 100% of the time.

Sure, in the same way that drowning someone is about bathing.

-CryptoLutheran
 
Upvote 0

HARK!

שמע
Christian Forums Staff
Supervisor
Site Supporter
Oct 29, 2017
55,144
8,127
US
✟1,096,214.00
Country
United States
Faith
Messianic
Marital Status
Private
Reading the story of Sodom and Gomorrah--or the story of the Levite in Gibeah for that matter--as though the matter at hand is sex, rather than violence, is symptomatic of a deeply perverse mind that finds sexuality more horrible than acts of violence.

Rape is sexual violence. It's more rampant, more perverse, and creates deeper psychological devastation, than just calling someone out of their house to push them around.

Woe to him who would diminish this egregious act, to be compared to a hazing.
 
Upvote 0

ViaCrucis

Confessional Lutheran
Oct 2, 2011
37,427
26,867
Pacific Northwest
✟731,303.00
Country
United States
Faith
Lutheran
Marital Status
In Relationship
Politics
US-Others
No, but neither does it suggest the men of Sodom knew Lot's visitors were angels either.

Which wouldn't be relevant here. If I say, "A group of people in Sodom tried to gang rape angels" it doesn't matter that the people in Sodom didn't know they were angels.

The more reasonable explanation, given the SUM of God's Word, is that the men of Sodom saw them as men and wanted to have sex, relations with them.

The word you are looking for is rape. They wanted to rape them.

There is an intriguing, quite similar passage in Judges 19 that might shed some light on the culture of that era:
22 While they were celebrating, behold, the men of the city, certain worthless fellows, surrounded the house, pounding the door; and they spoke to the owner of the house, the old man, saying, “Bring out the man who came into your house that we may have relations with him.”

Good, you are already familiar with the passage. I want you to pay attention very closely to both where the stories are the same, and also where they are different.

Neither story is about the sexual orientation of the mob, both stories are about sexual violence being done to outsiders. In the first story, they refuse Lot's daughters; in the second story they refuse the old man's daughter, when the Levite's concubine is tossed out, they raped her to death.

They didn't care whether it was a man or a woman, they didn't care about that. They cared about hurting and violating someone, specifically an outsider, a stranger.

Moreover, I already quoted Paul in Romans 1 showing his, and by inspiration, God's attitude toward homosexuality - "men with men abandoning the 'natural function' of the woman..." This is also a perfectly reasonable indication of what "strange" means in this context - i.e. "unnatural." And because Paul was VERY CLEARLY talking about homosexuality, men with men, etc., it's a huge stretch to interpret that any other way.

You're right, St. Paul is talking about men having sex with men, and women having sex with women, in the context of pagan idolatry. Don't ignore everything else the Apostle is saying here, he's talking about pagan idolatry. Part of forfeiting the worship of the Creator God in favor of the worship of false gods, was that they gave themselves over to every lust of the flesh.

But why is Paul talking about this here? Why does the Apostle start talking about the Gospel, but then switch gears suddenly to the ways in which God's wrath has been revealed against all ungodliness?

For a few reasons, Paul wants to properly preach the Law and the universal condemnation of the Law against sinners, both Jew and Greek. Because the bitterness of the Law makes the Gospel all the more sweet. But to get to that sweetness of the Gospel he has to make some very important points. So one can follow along with what the Apostle is saying here, nodding along against just how profane those uncircumcised Greeks and Romans are; but take note what the Apostle does in the opening verse of chapter 2 of his epistle. He rightly points the hypocrisy of his readers in nodding along with him as he wags his finger against the perversions of the Gentiles. It is here that the Apostle begins laying down foundations of what he's doing, by leveling the playing field. That nobody, neither Jew nor Greek, is justified under the Law; but that instead "all have sinned and fallen short of the glory of God", that "all" means "Jew and Gentile"--so everyone, yes. Both Jew and Gentile, everybody, has sinned, and therefore stands condemned under the Law as a sinner; and for such reason no one can stand justified before God on the basis of the Law and the personal merits of the individual brought before God. It is, instead, solely by the grace of God, on Christ's account alone, through faith that the sinner is made righteous, rendered just, before God--by receiving a righteousness apart from the Law, a righteousness not of human merit, but of faith; that through faith Jesus Christ Himself has become our righteousness before God.

So when you quote Romans chapter 1 at me as though the point Paul is making is "eww, gay people", I simply want to tell you to keep reading what the Holy Apostle is writing here.

Because it is so, so much more than taking some quick shots at Greco-Roman Paganism.

-CryptoLutheran
 
Upvote 0

DerSchweik

Spend time in His Word - every day
Aug 31, 2007
70,184
161,375
Right of center
✟1,879,104.00
Country
United States
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Married
The word you are looking for is rape. They wanted to rape them.
No, the word I was looking for is the word that is actually used in Scripture - RELATIONS, iow - sex. You are the one choosing to call it rape, which intentionally changes the message; you want it to be about violence because that's apparently the narrative you're promoting here. But the Scripture, the passage is about immoral self-indulgence, self-indulgence of a sexual nature, gross self-indulgence in fact given the fact that it was MEN seeking to have sex with MEN. No twisting of words to fit a false narrative can alter that fact.
Neither story is about the sexual orientation of the mob,
100% agree. "Sexual orientation" has precisely zilch to do with either story.

However, the phrase "Sexual Orientation" needs exposing; it is the false narrative that we are created [by God] to be oriented to either sex - man to woman, or man to man - the notion that both ["orientations"] are somehow equal and moral. This is heresy, pure and simple. It is contrary to sound biblical teaching. God created man in His image - male and female He created them. NEVER, EVER, NOT EVEN ONCE has God inspired ANY writer of Scripture to put forth the false narrative that He made man for any other sexual intent than for woman. And the same goes with women. NEVER EVER has God inspired any writer of Scripture to put forth the false narrative that He made women for any other sexual intent than for man. And frankly, His primary purpose for both was to PROCREATE - a physical impossibility for homosexuals, made impossible btw by Him who created them male and female.

So, to frame this as an issue of pure violence versus "sexual orientation" is really just a red herring argument - an argument made to avoid any discussion of the nature of the immorality involved.
...both stories are about sexual violence being done to outsiders....
They didn't care whether it was a man or a woman, they didn't care about that. They cared about hurting and violating someone, specifically an outsider, a stranger.
Again, this is the false narrative - I won't argue both stories involved violence, because they clearly did; but the [false] narrative attempts to make a distinction between the violence being perpetrated and the supposed "sexual orientation" of those committing the violence, claiming the latter must be irrelevant - I say "must be" because that's the only way to maintain BOTH false narratives. Basically, both either assume or explicitly assert that homosexuality is perfectly normal - that violence is the real (and only) issue.

You're right, St. Paul is talking about men having sex with men, and women having sex with women, in the context of pagan idolatry. Don't ignore everything else the Apostle is saying here, he's talking about pagan idolatry. Part of forfeiting the worship of the Creator God in favor of the worship of false gods, was that they gave themselves over to every lust of the flesh.
Stopping right here to cut to the chase, cuz I'm not going to be led down the path of "pagan idolatry."
Is Paul talking about homosexuality or not?
Is Paul condoning homosexuality or not?
Does Paul condone homosexuality or not? Here, or elsewhere in any of his writings?

So when you quote Romans chapter 1 at me as though the point Paul is making is "eww, gay people", I simply want to tell you to keep reading what the Holy Apostle is writing here.

Because it is so, so much more than taking some quick shots at Greco-Roman Paganism.

-CryptoLutheran
Now you're just being insulting, putting offensive words in my mouth and insinuating stuff I've neither said nor done.
Some narrative, that. :(
 
Last edited:
  • Winner
Reactions: Darkhorse
Upvote 0

comana

Senior Veteran
Site Supporter
Jan 19, 2005
6,931
3,500
Colorado
✟906,870.00
Country
United States
Faith
Atheist
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Others
Or... and this might be a stretch in today's obviously permissive culture, simply eliminate co-ed dorms altogether, kind of like things used to be.
The only co Ed living spaces at colleges I know of provide private baths in each room. Communal bath areas in college living quarters are undignified and should be done away with entirely.
 
Upvote 0
This site stays free and accessible to all because of donations from people like you.
Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
- Dan Doughty and Team Christian Forums

FreeinChrist

CF Advisory team
Christian Forums Staff
Site Advisor
Site Supporter
Jul 2, 2003
144,978
17,393
USA/Belize
✟1,748,098.00
Country
United States
Faith
Baptist
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Democrat
ADVISOR HAT


This thread is closed. The Statement of Purpose for this forum includes (note what I underlined):

Homosexuality, Same-Sex Marriage, Bisexuality and Transgenderism/Transexualism: Discussion of these topics must comply with the sitewide rule barring the promotion of homosexuality, same-sex marriage, bisexuality, and transgenderism/transexualism. Discussion and debate should only be directed toward political, legal, historical and civil rights issues, and should not be directed toward the morality of homosexuality, same-sex marriage, bisexuality or transgenderism/transexualism.
This thread has gone beyond the limits set in the Statement of Purpose by the administration.
 
Upvote 0
Status
Not open for further replies.