What do you believe about January 6th?

Kratzo · May 21, 2021

disciple Clint said:
Why is it so difficult to separate the actions of the woman from the actions of the rest of the demonstrators. Your argument could be used to shoot anyone at random at a demonstration where some people have become violent and endanger lives. Is is ok to just pick out someone and kill them because they are representative of the acts of others? I would suggest that people are letting their hate for some groups of people influence their common sense.

A line was drawn at that barricade. She crossed the line. Nobody else crossed that line. Thus, nobody else suffered that same fate.

This isn't that hard. If she was shot at the first window into the Capitol near the entrance when no warnings or barricades were there, you would have a case. But in this instance, there isn't one.

disciple Clint · May 21, 2021

essentialsaltes said:
No, they stayed where it was safe, behind a barricade that had become a defensive fortification separating them from the mob.
I listened to those videos I did not hear one command to STOP. I also can not understand how an armed officer with two back up officers cannot apprehend one unarmed woman. My conclusion, the officer panicked. It is interesting however to see how many people think it is just fine to kill an unarmed person as long as they are a conservative. These same people however are the ones who make the posts decrying police violence and claim that the police "murder" unarmed black people.

It's not that hard. Is the perp coming at you, disobeying your instructions to stop? Or is the perp running away from you, disobeying your instructions to stop?

disciple Clint · May 22, 2021

essentialsaltes said:
Then why are you so bent out of shape over the Capitol Police officer whom prosecutors have declined to charge? [important nitpick, people are not found to be innocent -- they are not guilty.]

“Specifically, the investigation revealed no evidence to establish that, at the time the officer fired a single shot at Ms. Babbitt, the officer did not reasonably believe that it was necessary to do so in self-defense or in defense of the Members of Congress and others evacuating the House Chamber,” prosecutors said.

Maybe because it was so politically based and so clumsily an obvious a coverup that anyone who accepts it is lacking in critical thinking skills. This event was suppressed from the news and the facts are still unknown, we have never even been told who the shooter was, now compare that to any other shooting by the police. Does it look like an obvious coverup when all information is put under strict containment? I do not have to tell anyone that if that woman was not a white conservative there would be a public outcry and demonstration that would not end short of a full revolt.

disciple Clint · May 22, 2021

TLK Valentine said:
Did you want him to? Because an officer only carries so many rounds in his service revolver.

How do you know the criminal was unarmed?

The one fact that has not been disputed is that she was unarmed, do you want to assert some other story? I guess as far as some people are concerned it is a shame he only had a limited number of rounds in his gun because there were a lot more conservatives out there he could have shot in his panic had he not been so concerned about hiding himself.

disciple Clint · May 22, 2021

Kratzo said:
A line was drawn at that barricade. She crossed the line. Nobody else crossed that line. Thus, nobody else suffered that same fate.

This isn't that hard. If she was shot at the first window into the Capitol near the entrance when no warnings or barricades were there, you would have a case. But in this instance, there isn't one.

Well that sound good but does it explain why three armed officers could not control one unarmed woman? Is that the standard you want applied on the streets, do you want the police to shoot unarmed people who get too close to them? See why this shooting is not right? What about the people who were attacking the courthouse in Portland, should they have been shot? OR the protestors who attacked police precincts, should they have been shot when they crossed the line? What are the values that endorse shooting unarmed people in one selected event but not in other events.

Pommer · May 22, 2021

disciple Clint said:
I do not have to tell anyone that if that woman was not a white conservative there would be a public outcry and demonstration that would not end short of a full revolt.

How dare we not respect this champion of Liberty who gave her life because she believed that “the election was stolen” and she was where she was because of this belief?

Easy, like this,
Ashli Babbitt is not a freedom-martyr, she was a victim of the lies that she was told were worth committing crimes for.

disciple Clint · May 22, 2021

Pommer said:
How dare we not respect this champion of Liberty who gave her life because she believed that “the election was stolen” and she was where she was because of this belief?

Easy, like this,
Ashli Babbitt is not a freedom-martyr, she was a victim of the lies that she was told were worth committing crimes for.

Which totally avoids the issue outlined in my post.

Pommer · May 22, 2021

disciple Clint said:
Which totally avoids the issue outlined in my post.

I’m not sticking to the approved script?
Sorry!

disciple Clint · May 22, 2021

Pommer said:
I’m not sticking to the approved script?
Sorry!

it is not so much that as you are using a script from a different play.

SimplyMe · May 22, 2021

disciple Clint said:
Maybe because it was so politically based and so clumsily an obvious a coverup that anyone who accepts it is lacking in critical thinking skills. This event was suppressed from the news and the facts are still unknown,

It was? I seem to recall plenty of news reports on the day of the shooting, complete with video -- such as this one.

disciple Clint said:
we have never even been told who the shooter was, now compare that to any other shooting by the police.

Yes, most local police departments do state who the shooter was, but does the federal government? Tell me, does the FBI typically release the names of an agent who shoots a person? From what I find, it doesn't appear so. More to the point, there was a person shot by Secret Service agents in August of last year, that caused Pres. Trump to be removed from a meeting. The man shot was Myron Berryman -- can you find anywhere that the Secret Service released the name of the person that shot him?

You are trying to make something sinister out of what appears to be standard procedure for federal law enforcement. But since Trump was President when Ashli Babbett was shot, if the shooting was "covered up," isn't Trump ultimately responsible for that cover up -- particularly since he likely knows, since he was the President at the time, the name of the shooter?

disciple Clint said:
Does it look like an obvious coverup when all information is put under strict containment? I do not have to tell anyone that if that woman was not a white conservative there would be a public outcry and demonstration that would not end short of a full revolt.

No, it doesn't look like a cover up. Instead, it appears that this agent believed he was the "last line of defense" against an angry mob and numerous members of the US Congress. If you watch one of the many available full videos of the shooting, you can see members of Congress at the end of that rather short hallway shortly before Ms. Babbett tried crawling through the window.

In fact, if you want to go back to Myron Berryman, he ended up being unarmed, as well. For some reason, though, you have never brought up the "unjustified" shooting of Myron or called it a "cover up" that the Secret Service didn't name the agent that shot him.

GreatLakes4Ever · May 22, 2021

disciple Clint said:
Maybe because it was so politically based and so clumsily an obvious a coverup that anyone who accepts it is lacking in critical thinking skills. This event was suppressed from the news and the facts are still unknown, we have never even been told who the shooter was, now compare that to any other shooting by the police. Does it look like an obvious coverup when all information is put under strict containment? I do not have to tell anyone that if that woman was not a white conservative there would be a public outcry and demonstration that would not end short of a full revolt.

Congress opening up a commission to investigate everything that went down on January 6 could get to the bottom of this. The House already voted to have one. Now we just need the Senate to agree. Call your senators demanding they do this so we can get to the truth.

Kratzo · May 22, 2021

disciple Clint said:
Well that sound good but does it explain why three armed officers could not control one unarmed woman? Is that the standard you want applied on the streets, do you want the police to shoot unarmed people who get too close to them? See why this shooting is not right? What about the people who were attacking the courthouse in Portland, should they have been shot? OR the protestors who attacked police precincts, should they have been shot when they crossed the line? What are the values that endorse shooting unarmed people in one selected event but not in other events.

The officers were controlling a mob at the barricade, not just a single woman. She crossed the line, the rest of the mob didn't once that happened. Mob controlled.
It's a perk of protecting elected officials. You'll notice nobody was shot getting into the Senate chamber. That's a pretty close comparison to your whataboutisms. Hint: elected officials weren't in there. Take a wild guess where they were, and where the barricade was set.

rturner76 · May 22, 2021

Pommer said:
How dare we not respect this champion of Liberty who gave her life because she believed that “the election was stolen” and she was where she was because of this belief?

Easy, like this,
Ashli Babbitt is not a freedom-martyr, she was a victim of the lies that she was told were worth committing crimes for.

Champion of Liberty? So she was supporting a legally held election? Not quite. She was supporting the taking over of government buildings in the name of their savior. Don Trump.

Imagine hanging all of your hopes on the guy from the reality show who pays inappropriate content stars for sex? Forget the election results, we need a divorcee' bankrupt, tax dodger to run a Coup right now. (Is that flaming? Willing to delete?)

Does anybody notice how calm things are with a D back in office? All the R can complain about is the President flubbing a word or two on the teleprompter.

Guinan · May 22, 2021

Pommer said:
How dare we not respect this champion of Liberty who gave her life because she believed that “the election was stolen” and she was where she was because of this belief?

Easy, like this,
Ashli Babbitt is not a freedom-martyr, she was a victim of the lies that she was told were worth committing crimes for.

I don't see her as victim and I don't think a traitor to our country should be martyred. I'm not saying you're doing that, but I know conservatives who have put her up on a pedestal as if she's a hero.

Woman killed in Capitol was Trump supporter who embraced conspiracy theories

'She was deep into it': Ashli Babbitt, killed in Capitol riot, was devoted conspiracy theorist

'Nothing can stop us': Slain Trump supporter tweeted conspiracy theories and her devotion to Trump in days before her death

Nihilist Virus · May 22, 2021

The summer rioters of 2020 were actually Trumpers disguised as BLM and Antifa.

Pommer · May 22, 2021

Guinan said:
I don't see her as victim and I don't think a traitor to our country should be martyred. I'm not saying you're doing that, but I know conservatives who have put her up on a pedestal as if she's a hero.

Woman killed in Capitol was Trump supporter who embraced conspiracy theories

'She was deep into it': Ashli Babbitt, killed in Capitol riot, was devoted conspiracy theorist

'Nothing can stop us': Slain Trump supporter tweeted conspiracy theories and her devotion to Trump in days before her death

Ms Babbitt was a dupe.

TLK Valentine · May 22, 2021

disciple Clint said:
The one fact that has not been disputed is that she was unarmed, do you want to assert some other story? I guess as far as some people are concerned it is a shame he only had a limited number of rounds in his gun because there were a lot more conservatives out there he could have shot in his panic had he not been so concerned about hiding himself.

I want you to tell us how the officer could've possibly known that this criminal, or any of the hundreds behind her, were unarmed.

In this country we have the right to protect ourselves from violent thugs.

disciple Clint · May 23, 2021

Kratzo said:
The officers were controlling a mob at the barricade, not just a single woman. She crossed the line, the rest of the mob didn't once that happened. Mob controlled.
It's a perk of protecting elected officials. You'll notice nobody was shot getting into the Senate chamber. That's a pretty close comparison to your whataboutisms. Hint: elected officials weren't in there. Take a wild guess where they were, and where the barricade was set.

OK if you are happy with that then do not complain anymore about unarmed people being killed by the police because that is the weakest excuse for using deadly force I have ever seen.

disciple Clint · May 23, 2021

TLK Valentine said:
I want you to tell us how the officer could've possibly known that this criminal, or any of the hundreds behind her, were unarmed.

In this country were have the right to protect ourselves from violent thugs.

TLK Valentine said:
In this country were have the right to protect ourselves from violent thugs.

Funny how some people get all upset when a black person is shot by police but have no problem at all with this shooting, any explanation? So now by your standard if an officer does not know for certain that a person does not have a gun, they should assume that they do have one? Once again if those are the standards then there better not be any more complaints about unarmed people being shot by the police, we either have standards that apply to everyone or we have double standards that only apply when we want them to apply.

returntosender · May 23, 2021

I believe it was taken over but not necessarily by Trump supporters
There may have been a few mixed in there.

What do you believe about January 6th?

Did Trump supporters violently take over the capitol on January 6th.

Yes.

No.

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