And just like that, the CDC is "wrong" now in the eyes of some folks...

loveofourlord · May 18, 2021

It's so funny how all the people whining about snowflakes have been turned into nonstop snowflakes being triggered by masks and anything that saves lives. And again if masks presists it will be the fault to the anti vaxxers, just as the lockdowns and everything else they hate is their fault. Ironic to complain about things you made no effort to help ACTUALLY end. If covid becomes seasonal it be your fault, if covid mutates into something really dangerous it will be your fault. Instead of actually trying to end covid you've done your part to make it a continual problem.

Michie · May 18, 2021

Good grief. People are not happy unless they are complaining about the other guy it seems.

ThatRobGuy · May 18, 2021

Innsmuthbride said:
I am going to continue wearing my mask. If it triggers some snowflake too bad. I have allergies and the mask work to keep them at a minimum.

If you'd like to keep wearing one after vaccination, that's fine. Now that I'm well beyond two weeks after my 2nd Pfizer shot, mine has been retired.

Like I noted, I don't have any issue with someone who chooses to still wear one simply for personal reasons, as long as it's not being used as the impetus of trying to convey an environment of danger that's no longer at the level where it was, and thereby using it as a justification for continued covid-related unemployment and other economic disrupting measures.

RDKirk · May 18, 2021

Michie said:
I can’t believe people hijacked a name like Karen or whatever to use it to oppose their opposition. Imagine if someone politically brainwashed used names associated with the black community. It would not go over well and accusations of bigotry and racism would be flying about. Why is Karen okay? It’s so hypocritical.

That's done too, such as "Shenequa," and "Felicia," and more. And of course, there is "Tom."

There are also the "Brads" and the "Chads."

ThatRobGuy · May 18, 2021

loveofourlord said:
It's so funny how all the people whining about snowflakes have been turned into nonstop snowflakes being triggered by masks and anything that saves lives. And again if masks presists it will be the fault to the anti vaxxers, just as the lockdowns and everything else they hate is their fault. Ironic to complain about things you made no effort to help ACTUALLY end. If covid becomes seasonal it be your fault, if covid mutates into something really dangerous it will be your fault. Instead of actually trying to end covid you've done your part to make it a continual problem.

I followed the guidance, masked-up when it was required, and got my vaccine as soon as my state said I was eligible. It has nothing to do with being "triggered" by things that save lives.

It's actually quite the opposite, it's being frustrated by people who are going along with political narratives and signaling things that are basically encouraging some people to procrastinate with regards to doing the number one thing (getting vaccinated) that will save lives.

We have a substantial portion of people (and not just on the far-right), who haven't been vaccinated yet, appear to be in no hurry to do so, but still want to keep the the measures going, and expect everyone else to engage in disrupting measures to protect them under the pretense of "it's still dangerous out there, that's justification for me to continue getting paid to stay home and not go back to work, I shouldn't be forced to choose between my health and being able to put food on the table!"

RDKirk · May 18, 2021

The flu is still out there. I began using infection avoidance practices after H1N1. The only things I added for covid were masks and social distancing.

But having become more aware, I will continue to practice social distancing when practical, and I'll continue to wear masks in specific situations that put me into the position of directly rebreathing other people's exhalation, such as public transportation.

ThatRobGuy · May 18, 2021

trunks2k said:
There's a practical/behavioral vs scientific issue here.

I trust the CDC in that if you are fully vaccinated you are at minimal risk to yourself and others and in a perfect world, vaccinated people don't need to wear a mask.

However, what I don't trust is other people. I don't trust unvaccinated people to continue to wear masks and keep social distancing. I don't trust them to not just claim to be vaccinated so they don't have to deal with the restrictions.

But, if the chances are that they only people they'll end up infecting are mostly each other... are the rest of us to prolong our behavior modification measures for the sake of the anti-vaxxers?

At little over half of the adult population has received at least one shot, and 45% are fully vaccinated.

There seem to be a lot of "hold-outs" out there that appear to waiting around quite a bit. Given that people with legitimate vaccine allergies and immuno-compromising conditions (that preclude them from getting it) is a fraction of a fraction of people.

Vaccine supply outstrips demand at this point, and same-day and/or walk-in appointments are available almost everywhere in the country.

If people decide to start going out there unmasked having not made the choice to get the safe, free, widely available vaccine, it's not on us to protect them forever... When it was the other way around and vaccine supply was limited and there were people who wanted one but couldn't get one...then I get it, but that's simply not the case anymore.

And it's certainly not everyone else to keep shelling out tax money because a person claims "I don't want to get the vaccine yet", while simultaneously saying "I don't feel safe going back to work yet, it's not fair that the government is going to take my unemployment away" (meanwhile, every business has now hiring signs up, and it's so hard to find someone, that's it's artificially inflating the cost of labor)

Yttrium · May 18, 2021

We still have to wear masks indoors my state (except at home or while eating in restaurants). The President can't override that. I'm fully immunized, but I'll still be wearing my mask until my state and county get around to changing things. I'm fine with that. I've been enjoying not being sick at all the past year.

dqhall · May 18, 2021

In Japan people wore face masks on city sidewalks to prevent spread of germs or the flu before the pandemic.

Walmart allows shopping without a mask. My county ended its mask requirement recently. I saw older people who should have been vaccinated wearing masks while shopping today. The place was packed with people.

There are “Now Hiring,” signs all over town. They pay people not to work. It is a shame. With all the money printing during the pandemic, I expect wages and prices will rise. Bank of America has a $20/hr minimum wage going to $25/hr in 2025. I remember when the Federal minimum wage was $2.10/hr.

ThatRobGuy · May 18, 2021

RDKirk said:
The flu is still out there. I began using infection avoidance practices after H1N1. The only things I added for covid were masks and social distancing.

But having become more aware, I will continue to practice social distancing when practical, and I'll continue to wear masks in specific situations that put me into the position of directly rebreathing other people's exhalation, such as public transportation.

I think there has to be a balance struck there between "taking certain precautions to avoid colds and flus" and "taking it so far that one is basically living in a bubble". Not insinuating that you're doing the latter, but I know some people who claim that they're going to wear a mask every flu season from now on.

Completely avoiding the flu may not be the great thing (for the population as a whole) as it sounds (although, I'm sure it's nice on an individual level)

This year's flu season was virtually nonexistent. That could be bad news for next year.

While the historically low levels of flu spared the country from what experts called a "twindemic"—a strong flu season hitting amid an ongoing Covid-19 outbreak—the pandemic's silver lining may come at a cost. According to Politico, the lack of a 2020-21 flu season means that scientists have little data to create effective vaccines in anticipation of the 2021-22 flu season.

Traditionally, to predict which flu strains will dominate the upcoming flu season, WHO convenes experts twice a year, once each for the Northern and Southern hemispheres, who examine data on flu strain spread collected by labs located around the world, including CDC.

During the meeting for the Northern Hemisphere, experts use data on what strains are affecting the Southern Hemisphere to predict which strains will hit the northern half of the globe a few months later. Then, an FDA advisory committee reviews those recommendations to decide how it will license flu vaccines for the coming year, Politico reports.

This year, the committee struggled to find any appropriate precedent. "What we asked … during that meeting was, 'Has there ever been a moment like this one?'" Paul Offit, a vaccine expert at the University of Pennsylvania and committee member, said. He added, "[T]his really is unprecedented."

A non existent flu season this past year means that we'll likely have a less-effective flu vaccine for the upcoming season, simply because the researchers won't know which strains to target with it. Attempts at complete avoidance of every single pathogen on the planet will lead to people having less effective immune systems overall, and scientists scratching their heads about which strains to target for the things we can somewhat mitigate for. The reason flu vaccines are as effective as they are, is because some people do get the flu, and that allows scientists to figure out which strains are spreading.

Michie · May 18, 2021

dqhall said:
In Japan people wore face masks on city sidewalks to prevent spread of germs or the flu before the pandemic.

Walmart allows shopping without a mask. My county ended its mask requirement recently. I saw older people who should have been vaccinated wearing masks while shopping today. The place was packed with people.

There are “Now Hiring,” signs all over town. They pay people not to work. It is a shame. With all the money printing during the pandemic, I expect wages and prices will rise. Bank of America has a $20/hr minimum wage going to $25/hr in 2025. I remember when the Federal minimum wage was $2.10/hr.

Just because you see someone wearing a mask does not mean they are not vaccinated. Same for those not wearing one. It does not mean they are not. There are an awful lot of assumptions going on. Unless you outright go up and ask, you don’t know.

hedrick · May 18, 2021

As far as I can tell the CDC isn’t wrong. But saying that vaccinated people can be together without masks doesn’t affect mask requirements in public areas until most people are vaccinated.

RDKirk · May 18, 2021

ThatRobGuy said:
I think there has to be a balance struck there between "taking certain precautions to avoid colds and flus" and "taking it so far that one is basically living in a bubble". Not insinuating that you're doing the latter, but I know some people who claim that they're going to wear a mask every flu season from now on.

Completely avoiding the flu may not be the great thing (for the population as a whole) as it sounds (although, I'm sure it's nice on an individual level)

This year's flu season was virtually nonexistent. That could be bad news for next year.

While the historically low levels of flu spared the country from what experts called a "twindemic"—a strong flu season hitting amid an ongoing Covid-19 outbreak—the pandemic's silver lining may come at a cost. According to Politico, the lack of a 2020-21 flu season means that scientists have little data to create effective vaccines in anticipation of the 2021-22 flu season.

Traditionally, to predict which flu strains will dominate the upcoming flu season, WHO convenes experts twice a year, once each for the Northern and Southern hemispheres, who examine data on flu strain spread collected by labs located around the world, including CDC.

During the meeting for the Northern Hemisphere, experts use data on what strains are affecting the Southern Hemisphere to predict which strains will hit the northern half of the globe a few months later. Then, an FDA advisory committee reviews those recommendations to decide how it will license flu vaccines for the coming year, Politico reports.

This year, the committee struggled to find any appropriate precedent. "What we asked … during that meeting was, 'Has there ever been a moment like this one?'" Paul Offit, a vaccine expert at the University of Pennsylvania and committee member, said. He added, "[T]his really is unprecedented."

A non existent flu season this past year means that we'll likely have a less-effective flu vaccine for the upcoming season, simply because the researchers won't know which strains to target with it. Attempts at complete avoidance of every single pathogen on the planet will lead to people having less effective immune systems overall, and scientists scratching their heads about which strains to target for the things we can somewhat mitigate for. The reason flu vaccines are as effective as they are, is because some people do get the flu, and that allows scientists to figure out which strains are spreading.

It will also mean, however, fewer mutation opportunities for flu viruses, so that problem becomes much smaller.

RestoreTheJoy · May 18, 2021

ThatRobGuy said:
For months we heard about the importance of sticking to CDC guidelines, and following the advice of experts...

Now that they've relaxed their guidelines through a couple of iterations for those of us who are vaccinated, some folks have changed their tune.

Nurses' union president criticizes new CDC mask guidance - CNN

US coronavirus: The CDC was too cautious about what vaccinated people can do, doctors say. Now pendulum has swung in the opposite direction - CNN

https://www.washingtonpost.com/opin...9c1080-b673-11eb-96b9-e949d5397de9_story.html

Thanks, but I’m Going to Keep My Mask on Outdoors

For quite a while, I had my suspicions that some folks were using a mask as a virtue signal rather than for it's practical purpose.

I agreed with masking during the time where the vaccine wasn't widely available to everyone...but now that it's available to practically anyone who wants it (places are offering walk-in appointments), and everyone who wants to protect themselves, can do so.

I think that people may expose themselves a bit based on whether or not they opt to still wear a mask after being fully vaccinated.

If people who are fully vaccinated ditch the mask when given the freedom to do so, then they were using it for the pragmatic and functional purpose. If they come up with reasons for why they still want to wear them despite being vaccinated or now start questioning the institutional experts they've claimed to revere for the last 12 months, I think it's safe to assume that for them, the mask is basically the left-wing equivalent of a MAGA hat.

Bingo.

loveofourlord · May 18, 2021

ThatRobGuy said:
I followed the guidance, masked-up when it was required, and got my vaccine as soon as my state said I was eligible. It has nothing to do with being "triggered" by things that save lives.

It's actually quite the opposite, it's being frustrated by people who are going along with political narratives and signaling things that are basically encouraging some people to procrastinate with regards to doing the number one thing (getting vaccinated) that will save lives.

We have a substantial portion of people (and not just on the far-right), who haven't been vaccinated yet, appear to be in no hurry to do so, but still want to keep the the measures going, and expect everyone else to engage in disrupting measures to protect them under the pretense of "it's still dangerous out there, that's justification for me to continue getting paid to stay home and not go back to work, I shouldn't be forced to choose between my health and being able to put food on the table!"

No no, sorry I'm talking about those that are being triggered by people still wearing masks and such. The masks and vaccines aren't going to away if those that complain about them continue to ignore wearing masks and getting their vaccines. It's like those that defied the lockdowns and did nothing to prevent the spread of covid, then complaining because the lockdowns they ignored didn't work.

Daniel Marsh · May 18, 2021

ThatRobGuy said:
For months we heard about the importance of sticking to CDC guidelines, and following the advice of experts...

Now that they've relaxed their guidelines through a couple of iterations for those of us who are vaccinated, some folks have changed their tune.

Nurses' union president criticizes new CDC mask guidance - CNN

US coronavirus: The CDC was too cautious about what vaccinated people can do, doctors say. Now pendulum has swung in the opposite direction - CNN

https://www.washingtonpost.com/opin...9c1080-b673-11eb-96b9-e949d5397de9_story.html

Thanks, but I’m Going to Keep My Mask on Outdoors

For quite a while, I had my suspicions that some folks were using a mask as a virtue signal rather than for it's practical purpose.

I agreed with masking during the time where the vaccine wasn't widely available to everyone...but now that it's available to practically anyone who wants it (places are offering walk-in appointments), and everyone who wants to protect themselves, can do so.

I think that people may expose themselves a bit based on whether or not they opt to still wear a mask after being fully vaccinated.

If people who are fully vaccinated ditch the mask when given the freedom to do so, then they were using it for the pragmatic and functional purpose. If they come up with reasons for why they still want to wear them despite being vaccinated or now start questioning the institutional experts they've claimed to revere for the last 12 months, I think it's safe to assume that for them, the mask is basically the left-wing equivalent of a MAGA hat.

Where I live only 28% have gotten both shots.

jacks · May 18, 2021

A statistic I would like to see is what percent of people that are hospitalized had gotten the vaccine. If the number is very low, I think that would motivate people to get vaccinated. If the number is high, then those of us who are vaccinated, still need to be very cautious. Has anyone seen a statistic on that?

loveofourlord · May 18, 2021

jacks said:
A statistic I would like to see is what percent of people that are hospitalized had gotten the vaccine. If the number is very low, I think that would motivate people to get vaccinated. If the number is high, then those of us who are vaccinated, still need to be very cautious. Has anyone seen a statistic on that?

A few weeks ago there was a post showing 5k people tested positive and 200 died, which was a fraction of the number of people that died and tested positive in one day.

KCfromNC · May 19, 2021

ThatRobGuy said:
But, if the chances are that they only people they'll end up infecting are mostly each other...

By including "chances" and "mostly" here, I think you undermine your entire argument. You've concluded that it is a risk you're willing to take. But that's an opinion, and others might find that, given case load numbers, taking that risk is premature.

hedrick · May 19, 2021

loveofourlord said:
A few weeks ago there was a post showing 5k people tested positive and 200 died, which was a fraction of the number of people that died and tested positive in one day.

As of May 10, 115 M were vaccinated, of which 1359 were hospitalized or died. This report doesn't show people who weren't hospitalized, probably because it's hard to collect data on them. Even the numbers here are just those reported to the CDC. Since hospitals have to report routinely, they are likely more complete than the more general number of cases from people who have been vaccinated.

It's hard to know what to compare that 1359 to. You can't compare it to the total number of hospitalized and dead throughout the pandemic.

And just like that, the CDC is "wrong" now in the eyes of some folks...

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