a physical body in heaven?

Davy

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God formed the man Adam from the dust of the ground and breathed into Adam's nostrils the breath of life, and Adam became a living soul. That is what is written in Genesis 2.

So brethren, don't listen to those who go against that as written, especially when they also claim obvious Bible Scripture is a bad translation, because you know something is very wrong with those kind of opinions.
 
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Clare73

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The Scripture states that Adam was made in the image of God.
That image “was to come” in flesh, and was not come in flesh when Adam was formed in that image. Romans 5:14 says so.
The "image" and the "flesh" are two entirely different things.
So Adam is made in the very tselem of God, but that image was not yet come; was not yet flesh, when Adam was formed in it.
I think you are confounding "image" (Genesis 1:27) with "pattern" of (Romans 5:14)--both used of Adam, and became "flesh" (John 1:14) used of Jesus Christ.

1) The first Adam was made in the image of God (Genesis 1:27).

2) The first Adam was a pattern (form--not "image;" the pattern comes before the copy of it)
of the one to come (Romans 5:14)--Jesus Christ, the copy of the pattern, regarding impartation of life and death:

"as in Adam we die, so in Christ we are made alive" (1 Corinthians 15:22),
"So it is written: the first man Adam became a living being (Genesis 2:7),
the last Adam became a life-giving spirit." (1 Corinthians 15:45)

3) the second Adam is (Jesus Christ, the Word) God-made-flesh (John 1:14), who came after Adam.

In the texts:
the image of God is Adam,
the Word made flesh is Jesus.
the pattern (for Jesus' work) is Adam.
 
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yeshuasavedme

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OK lets start with this statement:
Thank you so much for replying.
Here is my answer, using the Word of God:

Gen 2:10

And a river went out of Eden to water the garden; and from thence it was parted, and became into four heads.
The Hebrew words say -translated to English;
River
(Came) out
Watered
Garden
Parted
Four
Heads
Genesis 2 :: King James Version (KJV)
So, Eden is in the third heaven, and the waters of creation were “cut in two” by the Firmament of His powers on day 2 of creation week, and half of them were raised up above the stretched out heavens.
The waters are still there.

Psa 148:4
Praise him, ye heavens of heavens, and ye waters that be above the heavens.

Eden is in the third stretched out layer/story of heaven, and the Garden/Paradise, is in Eden:

2 I know a man in Christ who fourteen years ago—whether in the body I do not know, or whether out of the body I do not know, God knows—such a one was caught up to the third heaven. 3 And I know such a man—whether in the body or out of the body I do not know, God knows— 4 how he was caught up into Paradise

Amos 9:6 He who builds His layers in the skyAnd has founded His strata in the earth; Who calls for the waters of the sea, And pours them out on the face of the earth— The Lord is His name.

He stretched out the heavens
BibleGateway - Keyword Search: Stretched out the heavens

Half the waters of creation week are above the stretched out heavens.
The atmospheric river that came out of heaven and watered the Garden from above it, not in it, were parted to 4 streams in the heavens above the earth, which makes the River an atmospheric river.

https://weathertogether.net/weather-101/atmospheric-rivers/

The one river that came out of Eden in the third heaven above earth and parted -in the atmosphere to feed 4 rivers on earth below are named in Scripture. They are still the same 4 rivers today.
Pison/Pishon =Ganges, as Josephus wrote 2,000 years ago
Gihon = the Nile
Hiddekel =Tigris
Euphrates
https://www.ccel.org/j/josephus/works/ant-1.htm
“And Phison, which denotes a multitude, running into India, makes its exit into the sea, and is by the Greeks called Ganges. Euphrates also, as well as Tigris, goes down into the Red Sea. (4) Now the name Euphrates, or Phrath, denotes either a dispersion, or a flower: by Tiris, or Diglath, is signified what is swift, with narrowness; and Geon runs through Egypt, and denotes what arises from the east, which the Greeks call Nile.”

But though Josephus can tell us the rivers’ names, and locations, he, himself, was not informed that the Garden was in the third heaven, in Eden, on the holy mount of God there, where Adam was set to rule earth from as High King and as the Patriarch of the entire earth, the “father/priest”.
Adam lost the position and the home in Paradise, and so did we, as the seed in his loins, and the entire Adam creation from that time exists in the “first death” of separation from the Presence of God in the Garden.
To go back and have access to the Tree of Life, God in the 2nd Person of the Word, donned the Garment of Salvation =a 2nd creation human body of flesh not named Adam, but named Israel, to become our “Redeemer/Kinsman -the Brother to Adam and the perfect Atonement for our cleansing.
He is the only Way back to the lost paradise.
 
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yeshuasavedme

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The "image" and the "flesh" are two entirely different things...

.
4 But you shall not eat flesh with its life, that is, its blood. 5 Surely for your lifeblood I will demand a reckoning; from the hand of every beast I will require it, and from the hand of Adam. From the hand of every Adam’s brother I will require the life of Adam.

Genesis 9:6 “Whoever sheds Adam’s blood,
By Adam his blood shall be shed;
For in the image of God
He made Adam”

Adam Flesh is made in the image of God the Word who was to come and is come; even though Adam is fallen from the glory, he is made in the flesh image of Him who was to come in flesh, and is come in flesh.
Rom 8:8,9
So then they that are in the flesh cannot please God.
But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.
 
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Clare73

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4 But you shall not eat flesh with its life, that is, its blood. 5 Surely for your lifeblood I will demand a reckoning; from the hand of every beast I will require it, and from the hand of Adam. From the hand of every Adam’s brother I will require the life of Adam.

Genesis 9:6 “Whoever sheds Adam’s blood,
By Adam his blood shall be shed;
For in the image of God
He made Adam”

Adam Flesh is made in the image of God the Word who was to come and is come; even though Adam is fallen from the glory, he is made in the flesh image of Him who was to come in flesh, and is come in flesh.
Rom 8:8,9
So then they that are in the flesh cannot please God.
But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.
In Paul's NT usage, "flesh" means the natural (as opposed to spiritual born-again of the Holy Spirit) sinful man.
 
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yeshuasavedme

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In Paul's NT usage, "flesh" means the natural (as opposed to spiritual born-again of the Holy Spirit) sinful man.
well, yes. we agree on that, but the flesh that YHVH in the Person of God the Word put on like a garment in the womb of the Virgin that YHVH in the Person of God the Holy Soirit prepared for Him in that womb, for Him to put on as the 2nd "Adam/Ish/Man", "Firstborn Son of God" so as to be the Legal and only created flesh "Brother" to the Adam; and in that flesh be the "Acceptable Atonement" to fulfill the Living Oracle of the Day of Atonement, once, for all (Adam flesh creation -for whosoever will receive it), so as to remove the Sins and iniquities of the Adam flesh souls and to ransom back the kingdom Adam sold into death and corruption by tasting the 1st death of separation from the Person of God the Father; which death the entire race of the Adam flesh brother of Him is in the state of since the fall, and to breathe into the flesh bodies of the Cleansed adopted souls, His One Living Spirit/the Christ Spirit, and by that Breath adopting them as His sons (male and female), and by that adoption of their souls and giving them His One Living Spirit, He promises them "the Hope Of Glory", which is the adoption of their flesh bodies at the resurrection of and/or change of their flesh bodies; which bodies will be exactly as the first father -Adam, "son of God's was" (Luke 3:58), before the fall/1st death/entry of corruption of it.
God the Word did NOT have a flesh form until He put it on in the womb of the virgin, which is the "garment/Flesh" made exactly like Adam's body was, which flesh was made exactly like the flesh which God the Word always WAS "to come" in: IS "come in": and IS "coming back/returning" in.
Revelation 19
Isaiah 59
Genesis 1:26-28
Romans 5:14

He is come in sinless flesh, as only created Brother/Kinsman/Redeemer to the Adam creation.
His flesh body WAS the "Acceptable, Received, Atonement" and because of that, we get to change our "garments" of Adam flesh to the garments of "Israel" flesh: New, incorruptible flesh made like Adam was made before the fall, which Adam would have had if he ate the Tree of Life in his sinless state, and lived forever in, but our Redeemer IS our Tree of Life, now.
we have "the hope of glory", which is the hope of the flesh, adoption, body.
 
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yeshuasavedme

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https://www.blueletterbible.org/search/search.cfm?Criteria=adoption&t=KJV#s=s_primary_0_1

well, yes. we agree on that, but the flesh that YHVH in the Person of God the Word put on like a garment in the womb of the Virgin that YHVH in the Person of God the Holy Soirit prepared for Him in that womb, for Him to put on as the 2nd "Adam/Ish/Man", "Firstborn Son of God" so as to be the Legal and only created flesh "Brother" to the Adam; and in that flesh be the "Acceptable Atonement" to fulfill the Living Oracle of the Day of Atonement, once, for all (Adam flesh creation -for whosoever will receive it), so as to remove the Sins and iniquities of the Adam flesh souls and to ransom back the kingdom Adam sold into death and corruption by tasting the 1st death of separation from the Person of God the Father; which death the entire race of the Adam flesh brother of Him is in the state of since the fall, and to breathe into the flesh bodies of the Cleansed adopted souls, His One Living Spirit/the Christ Spirit, and by that Breath adopting them as His sons (male and female), and by that adoption of their souls and giving them His One Living Spirit, He promises them "the Hope Of Glory", which is the adoption of their flesh bodies at the resurrection of and/or change of their flesh bodies; which bodies will be exactly as the first father -Adam, "son of God's was" (Luke 3:58), before the fall/1st death/entry of corruption of it.
God the Word did NOT have a flesh form until He put it on in the womb of the virgin, which is the "garment/Flesh" made exactly like Adam's body was, which flesh was made exactly like the flesh which God the Word always WAS "to come" in: IS "come in": and IS "coming back/returning" in.
Revelation 19
Isaiah 59
Genesis 1:26-28
Romans 5:14

He is come in sinless flesh, as only created Brother/Kinsman/Redeemer to the Adam creation.
His flesh body WAS the "Acceptable, Received, Atonement" and because of that, we get to change our "garments" of Adam flesh to the garments of "Israel" flesh: New, incorruptible flesh made like Adam was made before the fall, which Adam would have had if he ate the Tree of Life in his sinless state, and lived forever in, but our Redeemer IS our Tree of Life, now.
we have "the hope of glory", which is the hope of the flesh, adoption, body.
 
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The Liturgist

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What reason would you give for why we will have and/or need a physical body in heaven?

Heaven is a temporary state where the spirits of those who will be saved are between now and the Parousia. At the last judgement, everyone will be resurrected, but only those judged righteous will enter the world to come. The rest will be consigned to the lake of fire, the outer darkness. And since most of us are not righteous, our salvation comes from our transformative faith in Jesus Christ.

That being said, some persons do dwell bodily in Heaven, among others, our Lord Jesus Christ, His mother the Virgin Mary, and Elijah.
 
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The Liturgist

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well, yes. we agree on that, but the flesh that YHVH in the Person of God the Word put on like a garment in the womb of the Virgin that YHVH in the Person of God the Holy Soirit prepared for Him in that womb, for Him to put on as the 2nd "Adam/Ish/Man", "Firstborn Son of God" so as to be the Legal and only created flesh "Brother" to the Adam; and in that flesh be the "Acceptable Atonement" to fulfill the Living Oracle of the Day of Atonement, once, for all (Adam flesh creation -for whosoever will receive it), so as to remove the Sins and iniquities of the Adam flesh souls and to ransom back the kingdom Adam sold into death and corruption by tasting the 1st death of separation from the Person of God the Father; which death the entire race of the Adam flesh brother of Him is in the state of since the fall, and to breathe into the flesh bodies of the Cleansed adopted souls, His One Living Spirit/the Christ Spirit, and by that Breath adopting them as His sons (male and female), and by that adoption of their souls and giving them His One Living Spirit, He promises them "the Hope Of Glory", which is the adoption of their flesh bodies at the resurrection of and/or change of their flesh bodies; which bodies will be exactly as the first father -Adam, "son of God's was" (Luke 3:58), before the fall/1st death/entry of corruption of it.
God the Word did NOT have a flesh form until He put it on in the womb of the virgin, which is the "garment/Flesh" made exactly like Adam's body was, which flesh was made exactly like the flesh which God the Word always WAS "to come" in: IS "come in": and IS "coming back/returning" in.
Revelation 19
Isaiah 59
Genesis 1:26-28
Romans 5:14

He is come in sinless flesh, as only created Brother/Kinsman/Redeemer to the Adam creation.
His flesh body WAS the "Acceptable, Received, Atonement" and because of that, we get to change our "garments" of Adam flesh to the garments of "Israel" flesh: New, incorruptible flesh made like Adam was made before the fall, which Adam would have had if he ate the Tree of Life in his sinless state, and lived forever in, but our Redeemer IS our Tree of Life, now.
we have "the hope of glory", which is the hope of the flesh, adoption, body.

Jesus Christ is according to the Statement of Faith of this website, fully God and fully man. It is further Christologically correct to say He is fully God and fully man without change, confusion or separation, and that He has a divine will and a human will.
 
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yeshuasavedme

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Heaven is a temporary state where the spirits of those who will be saved are between now and the Parousia. At the last judgement, everyone will be resurrected, but only those judged righteous will enter the world to come. The rest will be consigned to the lake of fire, the outer darkness. And since most of us are not righteous, our salvation comes from our transformative faith in Jesus Christ.

That being said, some persons do dwell bodily in Heaven, among others, our Lord Jesus Christ, His mother the Virgin Mary, and Elijah.
As to Mary, I am not of that religious persuasion, since Jesus calls every believer who is His, and therefore part of the Temple not made with hands, being built for the Glory of the adopted seed of Adam -of whosoever will- His “mother”; being then, “Jerusalem of the Spirit/ the Woman whose Seed is Christ”, in the Word of God, who, Herself, was the “barren widow” of Scripture when Adam fell; because Adam seed/stones/sons were to “build the temple not made with hands for the Glory to indwell; and thereby, to “plant the heavens” with those stones.
Ben/son, stone/eben, bone are all from the same word Hebrew that shows the reason Adam was made male and female was have godly seed/sons/stones to “build up Jerusalem above”, who is “the mother of us all who are Adopted into the One Living Spirit/Christ.
But, Mary is not mentioned in the Word of God as being made perfect in body -regenerated in body.
That said, I leave you to your belief in that. I just don’t buy it since Jesus said His mother and brothers are those who are part of the body of Christ, making the Woman above not barren anymore.

And, that also said, there is Enoch in heaven, serving with the Watcher angels there since His own translation to the glory, and I believe he is the “angel/messenger” who came to answer Daniel in Daniel 10:21, and the “angel/messenger” with the bowl of wrath who came out of the temple in heaven in Revelation and then showed John the things to come. John fell to worship him twice, and both times he said not to do that, and that he was a fellow prophet and a brethren of his =a human being, glorified.
Also, those who came out of their graves and walked about the city and were seen by many in Jerusalem before Jesus ascended to heaven to fulfill the Feast of First of Firstfruits, as High Priest of earth, to offer them there, with Himself, as “perfected” saints to fulfill the living oracle of the Wave Offering on that day are
perhaps those 24 elders on thrones with crowns of Life in the book of Revelation.
 
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disciple Clint

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Thank you so much for replying.
Here is my answer, using the Word of God:

Gen 2:10

And a river went out of Eden to water the garden; and from thence it was parted, and became into four heads.
The Hebrew words say -translated to English;
River
(Came) out
Watered
Garden
Parted
Four
Heads
Genesis 2 :: King James Version (KJV)
So, Eden is in the third heaven, and the waters of creation were “cut in two” by the Firmament of His powers on day 2 of creation week, and half of them were raised up above the stretched out heavens.
The waters are still there.

Psa 148:4
Praise him, ye heavens of heavens, and ye waters that be above the heavens.

Eden is in the third stretched out layer/story of heaven, and the Garden/Paradise, is in Eden:

2 I know a man in Christ who fourteen years ago—whether in the body I do not know, or whether out of the body I do not know, God knows—such a one was caught up to the third heaven. 3 And I know such a man—whether in the body or out of the body I do not know, God knows— 4 how he was caught up into Paradise

Amos 9:6 He who builds His layers in the skyAnd has founded His strata in the earth; Who calls for the waters of the sea, And pours them out on the face of the earth— The Lord is His name.

He stretched out the heavens
BibleGateway - Keyword Search: Stretched out the heavens

Half the waters of creation week are above the stretched out heavens.
The atmospheric river that came out of heaven and watered the Garden from above it, not in it, were parted to 4 streams in the heavens above the earth, which makes the River an atmospheric river.

Atmospheric Rivers – WeatherTogether

The one river that came out of Eden in the third heaven above earth and parted -in the atmosphere to feed 4 rivers on earth below are named in Scripture. They are still the same 4 rivers today.
Pison/Pishon =Ganges, as Josephus wrote 2,000 years ago
Gihon = the Nile
Hiddekel =Tigris
Euphrates
https://www.ccel.org/j/josephus/works/ant-1.htm
“And Phison, which denotes a multitude, running into India, makes its exit into the sea, and is by the Greeks called Ganges. Euphrates also, as well as Tigris, goes down into the Red Sea. (4) Now the name Euphrates, or Phrath, denotes either a dispersion, or a flower: by Tiris, or Diglath, is signified what is swift, with narrowness; and Geon runs through Egypt, and denotes what arises from the east, which the Greeks call Nile.”

But though Josephus can tell us the rivers’ names, and locations, he, himself, was not informed that the Garden was in the third heaven, in Eden, on the holy mount of God there, where Adam was set to rule earth from as High King and as the Patriarch of the entire earth, the “father/priest”.
Adam lost the position and the home in Paradise, and so did we, as the seed in his loins, and the entire Adam creation from that time exists in the “first death” of separation from the Presence of God in the Garden.
To go back and have access to the Tree of Life, God in the 2nd Person of the Word, donned the Garment of Salvation =a 2nd creation human body of flesh not named Adam, but named Israel, to become our “Redeemer/Kinsman -the Brother to Adam and the perfect Atonement for our cleansing.
He is the only Way back to the lost paradise.
OK so you have your interpretation of some bible verses, now the question is can you find any commentaries written by accepted scholars that agree with your interpretations?
 
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The Liturgist

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As to Mary, I am not of that religious persuasion, since Jesus calls every believer who is His, and therefore part of the Temple not made with hands, being built for the Glory of the adopted seed of Adam -of whosoever will- His “mother”; being then, “Jerusalem of the Spirit/ the Woman whose Seed is Christ”, in the Word of God, who, Herself, was the “barren widow” of Scripture when Adam fell; because Adam seed/stones/sons were to “build the temple not made with hands for the Glory to indwell; and thereby, to “plant the heavens” with those stones.
Ben/son, stone/eben, bone are all from the same word Hebrew that shows the reason Adam was made male and female was have godly seed/sons/stones to “build up Jerusalem above”, who is “the mother of us all who are Adopted into the One Living Spirit/Christ.
But, Mary is not mentioned in the Word of God as being made perfect in body -regenerated in body.
That said, I leave you to your belief in that. I just don’t buy it since Jesus said His mother and brothers are those who are part of the body of Christ, making the Woman above not barren anymore.

And, that also said, there is Enoch in heaven, serving with the Watcher angels there since His own translation to the glory, and I believe he is the “angel/messenger” who came to answer Daniel in Daniel 10:21, and the “angel/messenger” with the bowl of wrath who came out of the temple in heaven in Revelation and then showed John the things to come. John fell to worship him twice, and both times he said not to do that, and that he was a fellow prophet and a brethren of his =a human being, glorified.
Also, those who came out of their graves and walked about the city and were seen by many in Jerusalem before Jesus ascended to heaven to fulfill the Feast of First of Firstfruits, as High Priest of earth, to offer them there, with Himself, as “perfected” saints to fulfill the living oracle of the Wave Offering on that day are
perhaps those 24 elders on thrones with crowns of Life in the book of Revelation.

1. The Word of God is Jesus Christ (John 1) who is God.
2. Mary gave birth to God in the person of the Trinity.
3. As Theotokos (birth giver to God) she belongs in Heaven as much as Enoch and Elijah.
4. It is an ancient tradition of the Church, supported by the lack of a grave or relics, where these exist for the other major persons connected with the life of Christ, that on her death, Mary’s body was taken up into heaven. This is believed by the Eastern and Oriental Orthodox, Roman Catholics, Assyrians, many Anglicans, and some other Protestants including some Lutherans and Methodists I know.
 
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The Liturgist

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OK so you have your interpretation of some bible verses, now the question is can you find any commentaries written by accepted scholars that agree with your interpretations?

I do, for whatever that’s worth, dating back to the first millenium.
 
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disciple Clint

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As to Mary, I am not of that religious persuasion, since Jesus calls every believer who is His, and therefore part of the Temple not made with hands, being built for the Glory of the adopted seed of Adam -of whosoever will- His “mother”; being then, “Jerusalem of the Spirit/ the Woman whose Seed is Christ”, in the Word of God, who, Herself, was the “barren widow” of Scripture when Adam fell; because Adam seed/stones/sons were to “build the temple not made with hands for the Glory to indwell; and thereby, to “plant the heavens” with those stones.
Ben/son, stone/eben, bone are all from the same word Hebrew that shows the reason Adam was made male and female was have godly seed/sons/stones to “build up Jerusalem above”, who is “the mother of us all who are Adopted into the One Living Spirit/Christ.
But, Mary is not mentioned in the Word of God as being made perfect in body -regenerated in body.
That said, I leave you to your belief in that. I just don’t buy it since Jesus said His mother and brothers are those who are part of the body of Christ, making the Woman above not barren anymore.

And, that also said, there is Enoch in heaven, serving with the Watcher angels there since His own translation to the glory, and I believe he is the “angel/messenger” who came to answer Daniel in Daniel 10:21, and the “angel/messenger” with the bowl of wrath who came out of the temple in heaven in Revelation and then showed John the things to come. John fell to worship him twice, and both times he said not to do that, and that he was a fellow prophet and a brethren of his =a human being, glorified.
Also, those who came out of their graves and walked about the city and were seen by many in Jerusalem before Jesus ascended to heaven to fulfill the Feast of First of Firstfruits, as High Priest of earth, to offer them there, with Himself, as “perfected” saints to fulfill the living oracle of the Wave Offering on that day are
perhaps those 24 elders on thrones with crowns of Life in the book of Revelation.
Very Interesting BUT..............
 
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disciple Clint

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I do, for whatever that’s worth, dating back to the first millenium.
I have no doubt about that since I agree with almost all of what you have posted but my question was not addressed to you. I was questioning yeshuasavedme or more specifically some of the unique things posted.
 
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yeshuasavedme

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OK so you have your interpretation of some bible verses, now the question is can you find any commentaries written by accepted scholars that agree with your interpretations?
i gave it to you from the word. I did not interpret. Paul said Paradise is in the 3rd heaven. Because Paradise is in the 3rd heaven, and Genesis 1 states heaven is stretched out between the divided waters of this created globe on day 2, and as the Scriptures I gave show heaven is stretched out in stories/layers, then the river that comes out of Eden is an atmospheric river.
I gave you a science site that informs about atmospheric rivers.
Genesis says the one River out of Eden parted into 4, and that parting was in the atmosphere and the 1 is, by that, the source of the headwaters of those 4.
I gave you Josephus' writing of those four river names about 2 thousand years ago..and....Josephus, did not understand atmospheric rivers, but he DID know the names of the 4.
 
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yeshuasavedme

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1. The Word of God is Jesus Christ (John 1) who is God.
2. Mary gave birth to God in the person of the Trinity.
3. As Theotokos (birth giver to God) she belongs in Heaven as much as Enoch and Elijah.
4. It is an ancient tradition of the Church, supported by the lack of a grave or relics, where these exist for the other major persons connected with the life of Christ, that on her death, Mary’s body was taken up into heaven. This is believed by the Eastern and Oriental Orthodox, Roman Catholics, Assyrians, many Anglicans, and some other Protestants including some Lutherans and Methodists I know.

I don't accept that Mary is in her perfected body yet, and I don't believe, by concensus of men, that she is, but I have no problem with you believing it.
 
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disciple Clint

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Going back to the beginning of this thread:
Why do you not ask Jesus, then?
Why do you ask a board?
I asked to stimulate an intelligent discussion between members of this forum. That proved to be successful in almost all cases.
 
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