Adventist--Israelite flesh diet

tall73

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In the garden God provided every fruit of the tree to eat. After the fall man tilled the soil. It was not until after the flood that God gave animals as food to eat as well. So there is certainly nothing wrong with eating a vegetarian diet, and it was the original diet.

During the wilderness wandering the Israelites were given manna to eat. They complained they had no meat, and God punished them for their grumbling.

However, Ellen White says the following about meat eating by Israel:

Upon their settlement in Canaan, the Israelites were permitted the use of animal food, but under careful restrictions which tended to lessen the evil results. The use of swine's flesh was prohibited, as also of other animals and of birds and fish whose flesh was pronounced unclean. Of the meats permitted, the eating of the fat and the blood was strictly forbidden.

Only such animals could be used for food as were in good condition. No creature that was torn, that had died of itself, or from which the blood had not been carefully drained, could be used as food.

By departing from the plan divinely appointed for their diet, the Israelites suffered great loss. They desired a flesh diet, and they reaped its results. They did not reach God's ideal of character or fulfill His purpose. -CCH 228

And:

God did not withhold meat from the Hebrews in the wilderness simply to show his authority, but for their good, that they might preserve physical and moral strength. He knew that the use of animal food strengthens the animal passions and enfeebles the intellect. He knew that the gratification of the appetite of the Hebrews for flesh-meats, would weaken their moral powers, and induce such an irritable disposition that the vast army would become insubordinate, that they would lose the high sense of their moral obligations, and refuse to be controlled by the wise laws of Jehovah. Violence and rebellion would exist among them, making it impossible for them to be a pure and happy people in the land of Canaan. God knew what was best for the children of Israel, therefore he deprived them in a great measure of flesh-meats. ST January 6, 1876, Art. A, par. 21

Satan tempted them to consider this unjust and cruel. He caused them to lust after forbidden things, because he saw that through the indulgence of perverted appetite they would become carnally-minded and could be easily brought to do his will; the lower organs would be strengthened, while the intellectual and moral powers would be weakened. ST January 6, 1876, Art. A, par. 22


And in another place Ellen White states:

After the curse was pronounced upon the human family, God permitted man to eat flesh-meat. This He did that life might be shortened. The punishment of death has been pronounced upon the race, and the permission to eat flesh-meat was one of the means used by God to inflict this punishment. St. Helena, Calif., July 15, 1901 PC 1.3

This raises a few questions. If restrictions on the type of meat to be eaten only "lessened" the evil results, and if meat lowered the moral powers, then why did He command Israel to eat it? And why did Jesus eat it?

Luke 22:14 When the hour had come, He sat down, and the twelve apostles with Him. 15 Then He said to them, “With fervent desire I have desired to eat this Passover with you before I suffer;


Why did God instruct that the Priests were given a portion of the offerings?

Leviticus 7:5 and the priest shall burn them on the altar as an offering made by fire to the Lord. It is a trespass offering. 6 Every male among the priests may eat it. It shall be eaten in a holy place. It is most holy. 7 The trespass offering is like the sin offering; there is one law for them both: the priest who makes atonement with it shall have it.
Leviticus 7:31 And the priest shall burn the fat on the altar, but the breast shall be Aaron’s and his sons’. 32 Also the right thigh you shall give to the priest as a heave offering from the sacrifices of your peace offerings. 33 He among the sons of Aaron, who offers the blood of the peace offering and the fat, shall have the right thigh for his part. 34 For the breast of the wave offering and the thigh of the heave offering I have taken from the children of Israel, from the sacrifices of their peace offerings, and I have given them to Aaron the priest and to his sons from the children of Israel by a statute forever.’


Why did God provide Elijah meat?


1Ki 17:6 And the ravens brought him bread and meat in the morning, and bread and meat in the evening, and he drank from the brook.

Why did Jesus provide fish to His disciples?

Joh 21:12 Jesus saith unto them, Come and dine. And none of the disciples durst ask him, Who art thou? knowing that it was the Lord.
Joh 21:13 Jesus then cometh, and taketh bread, and giveth them, and fish likewise.

Why did Jesus call a fish a good gift?

Luk 11:11 If a son shall ask bread of any of you that is a father, will he give him a stone? or if he ask a fish, will he for a fish give him a serpent?
Luk 11:12 Or if he shall ask an egg, will he offer him a scorpion?
Luk 11:13 If ye then, being evil, know how to give good gifts unto your children: how much more shall your heavenly Father give the Holy Spirit to them that ask him?
 
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"all Ellen White... all the time" thread?

In the garden God provided every fruit of the tree to eat. After the fall man tilled the soil. It was not until after the flood that God gave animals as food to eat as well. ...


This raises a few questions. If restrictions on the type of meat to be eaten only "lessened" the evil results but God's ideal was that Israel abstain from meat, then why did He command Israel to eat it? And why did Jesus eat it?

hmmm yeah - and if God gave mankind a pure vegetarian diet in Eden as you point out - why would He have any meat eating in Genesis 9 or Lev 11 at all?

In fact - we know "God is Love" 1 John 4:8 - and His Law is a Law of Love - Lev 19:18, Deut 6:5 ... so why kill animals for food or for Passover or for ...??

And why destroy every man, woman and child in some of those towns in Canaan ??

And why send lepers outside the camp if God can just heal them on the spot?

And why spend 120 years building the ark if God can just have Noah preach for 5 years then - present Noah with a fully equipped ark on time and under budget?

hmmm... I guess we get to ask Him a lot of questions when we get to heaven. :)
 
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tall73

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After the curse was pronounced upon the human family, God permitted man to eat flesh-meat. This He did that life might be shortened. The punishment of death has been pronounced upon the race, and the permission to eat flesh-meat was one of the means used by God to inflict this punishment. St. Helena, Calif., July 15, 1901 PC 1.3

Is that why God gave the meat of the sacrifices to the prests as well, to shorten their life?





 
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BobRyan

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It just goes to show that this side of heaven - we simply don't know all the answers.

I notice that God did not even tell Job at the end of that book - all the back-and-forth going on in heaven over the situation with Job.
 
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tall73

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It just goes to show that this side of heaven - we simply don't know all the answers.

I notice that God did not even tell Job at the end of that book - all the back-and-forth going on in heaven over the situation with Job.


Yes, but it also shows Jesus ate meat. And God said people could.

And He commanded some to do so in the Passover.
 
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BobRyan

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Yes, but it also shows Jesus ate meat. And God said people could.

And He commanded some to do so in the Passover.

As I pointed out - all good material for those questions of the loving God about killing animals ...
 
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tall73

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Joh 21:12 Jesus saith unto them, Come and dine. And none of the disciples durst ask him, Who art thou? knowing that it was the Lord.
Joh 21:13 Jesus then cometh, and taketh bread, and giveth them, and fish likewise.


Luk 11:11 If a son shall ask bread of any of you that is a father, will he give him a stone? or if he ask a fish, will he for a fish give him a serpent?
Luk 11:12 Or if he shall ask an egg, will he offer him a scorpion?
Luk 11:13 If ye then, being evil, know how to give good gifts unto your children: how much more shall your heavenly Father give the Holy Spirit to them that ask him?


Bob, did Jesus design to shorten the lives of His disciples? I think we know He didn't.
 
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tall73

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A religious life can be more successfully attained and maintained if meat is discarded; for this diet stimulates into intense activity the lustful propensities, and enfeebles the moral and spiritual nature.
Letter, Nov. 5, 1896. Ellen White.
 
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tall73

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God did not withhold meat from the Hebrews in the wilderness simply to show His authority, but for their good, that they might preserve physical and moral strength. He knew that the use of animal food strengthens the animal passions and enfeebles the intellect. He knew that the gratification of the appetite of the Hebrews for flesh meats, would weaken their moral powers, and induce such an irritable disposition that the vast army would become insubordinate, that they would lose the high sense of their moral obligations, and refuse to be controlled by the wise laws of Jehovah.
Ellen White, Temperance, 160




 
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AdamjEdgar

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Everything that lives and moves will be food for you; just as I gave you the green plants, I now give you all things. Genesis 9:3
That is not contrary to the view illustrated by EG Whites writings.
None of the other quotes regarding Elijah, the Israelites or even Jesus Himself have any bearing on how God reduced the life span of mankind. It is very clear that after the flood there was a significant reduction in life expectancy for the new generations. Clearly the change in the environment must have been a major contributor and diet is a big part in that...so it makes sense that introducing meat into diet is a likely candidate.
I think that we can quite safely ask ourselves and satisfactorily answer our own question in the negative...will we eat meat in heaven?
 
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That is not contrary to the view illustrated by EG Whites writings.
None of the other quotes regarding Elijah, the Israelites or even Jesus Himself have any bearing on how God reduced the life span of mankind. It is very clear that after the flood there was a significant reduction in life expectancy for the new generations. Clearly the change in the environment must have been a major contributor and diet is a big part in that...so it makes sense that introducing meat into diet is a likely candidate.
I think that we can quite safely ask ourselves and satisfactorily answer our own question in the negative...will we eat meat in heaven?

my post was in reference to the third sentence in the OP ...
 
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tall73

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is what EG White suggested as a good health and wellbeing 100 years ago a significant doctrinal issue

Yes. She indicates that the Israelites departed from God's plan for their diet. Yet Jesus ate meat, gave it to His disciples, etc. Do you believe that Jesus departed from God's plan in any way?

God expressly gave meat to the priests to eat. Explain how Ellen White can say that it was the divinely appointed plan for them not to eat meat.

By departing from the plan divinely appointed for their diet, the Israelites suffered great loss. They desired a flesh diet, and they reaped its results. They did not reach God's ideal of character or fulfill His purpose. -CCH 228
 
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romans 14

Isaiah 25:6
Easy-to-Read Version
God’s Banquet for His Servants
6 The Lord All-Powerful will give a feast for all the people on this mountain. At the feast, there will be the best foods and wines. The meat will be good and tender, the wine pure and clear.
 
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AdamjEdgar

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romans 14

Isaiah 25:6
Easy-to-Read Version
God’s Banquet for His Servants
6 The Lord All-Powerful will give a feast for all the people on this mountain. At the feast, there will be the best foods and wines. The meat will be good and tender, the wine pure and clear.
Did you consider reading Verse 3?

3Therefore strong peoples will glorify you;
cities of ruthless nations will fear you.


If this is talking about the new earth, how is it then that ruthless nations are still alive fearing God?

I am thinking that there is a lot of metaphorical talk in what Isaiah wrote there. I am not convinced that it means meat from a slain animal. Prior to the fall of man, no animals were killed for food...how could it be this way once the former glory is restored? (death only comes through sin)

One has to consider the logical consistency of the Bible in these things. It simply is not logical or consistent to claim that God will allow animals to be killed for food in heaven or on the new earth. There is no precedent for this prior to the fall.
 
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ChetSinger

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I see these vegetarian-vs-omnivore threads appear on a regular basis. From what I've read in Paul's letters he specifically addressed this subject. There are dietary rules for believers but they're not content-related. They're related to conscience, both for ourselves and for the sake of others, and to thankfulness.
 
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tall73

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That is not contrary to the view illustrated by EG Whites writings.
None of the other quotes regarding Elijah, the Israelites or even Jesus Himself have any bearing on how God reduced the life span of mankind.

It certainly has a bearing on the question of why Jesus ate meat, and gave people meat if eating meat had evil results, which were only lessened by the limitations placed on Israel in regards to meat eating. Since Ellen White claims that

Upon their settlement in Canaan, the Israelites were permitted the use of animal food, but under careful restrictions which tended to lessen the evil results.



If God's intent for Israel was that they not eat meat, and eating meat had evil results which hindered character development, then why would Jesus eat meat and give it to others to eat?

They desired a flesh diet, and they reaped its results. They did not reach God's ideal of character or fulfill His purpose. -CCH 228



Ellen White indicates eating meat has evil results.

which tended to lessen the evil results.


Jesus said that meat was a good gift from a father to a son:


Luk 11:11 If a son shall ask bread of any of you that is a father, will he give him a stone? or if he ask a fish, will he for a fish give him a serpent?
Luk 11:12 Or if he shall ask an egg, will he offer him a scorpion?
Luk 11:13 If ye then, being evil, know how to give good gifts unto your children: how much more shall your heavenly Father give the Holy Spirit to them that ask him?

 
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It certainly has a bearing on the question of why Jesus ate meat, and gave people meat if eating meat had evil results, which were only lessened by the limitations placed on Israel in regards to meat eating. Since Ellen White claims that

Upon their settlement in Canaan, the Israelites were permitted the use of animal food, but under careful restrictions which tended to lessen the evil results.



If God's intent for Israel was that they not eat meat, and eating meat had evil results which hindered character development, then why would Jesus eat meat and give it to others to eat?

They desired a flesh diet, and they reaped its results. They did not reach God's ideal of character or fulfill His purpose. -CCH 228



Ellen White indicates eating meat has evil results.

which tended to lessen the evil results.


Jesus said that meat was a good gift from a father to a son:


Luk 11:11 If a son shall ask bread of any of you that is a father, will he give him a stone? or if he ask a fish, will he for a fish give him a serpent?
Luk 11:12 Or if he shall ask an egg, will he offer him a scorpion?
Luk 11:13 If ye then, being evil, know how to give good gifts unto your children: how much more shall your heavenly Father give the Holy Spirit to them that ask him?

My understanding is that long before Ellen White, it was the belief of Adventists such as Kellogg and Graham that eating meat was somehow conducive to lust, whereas eating cereal products would suppress lust (more specifically, the desire to engage in self-defilement, which in the 19th century, in addition to being viewed as immoral, which is still a normative Christian belief, was also held to be extremely deleterious to physical health), and this spurred the development of Kellogg cereals and Graham Crackers.

Coincidentally, Orthodox Christians do not eat meat, eggs or dairy products during any of the four great fasts (Lent, the Apostles’ Fast, the Dormition Fast and Advent) nor on Wednesday and Friday, albeit with some considerable relaxation, for example, seafood or shellfish, on the Feast of the Annunciation, Palm Sunday and the Feast of the Transfiguration (the latter falls within the Dormition Fast, because Transfiguration is traditionally celebrated on August 6th, and the Dormition or Assumption of the Theotokos on August 15th).
 
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