Has a cessationist ever turned into a continuationist after witnessing/experiencing a sign gift?

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Albion

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From the SOP:

This is a safe house forum for those members who believe that the sign gifts are still active today.

Last chance. Knock it off.
I do believe that the gifts "are active today," my friend and I would have been out of here long ago if I had not been peppered with questions by a number of different members.

Bye :wave:
 
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Carl Emerson

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I was just rephrasing your explanation about how you come to your beliefs. Frankly, it surprised me and I was giving you the opportunity to correct or explain it.

Hey... I am open to share my journey but this thread is not about me.

You could PM me or read my testimony thread here... Jesus's Ministry
 
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Carl Emerson

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Excuse? That IS the history of the Church. No excuses are necessary for Christians who are cessationists since the basic stance of cessationists is that ordinary history refutes the claims of continuers that the gifts are, in every way, the same as they have been throughout the 2000 years of the Christian experience. ;)

I am not questioning what has happened - that is not the argument.

I am questioning why, and I am questioning if God Himself planned it.

He threatened to withdraw His Spirit from zealous early churches for less reason than issues in the modern church today.

Do you think He does not withdraw from some churches in this age for good reason and take His gifts with Him ???
 
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JAL

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Excuse? That IS the history of the Church. No excuses are necessary for Christians who are cessationists since the basic stance of cessationists is that ordinary history refutes the claims of continuers that the gifts are, in every way, the same as they have been throughout the 2000 years of the Christian experience. ;)
Endless repetition of the same strawman. As you've been told a thousand times, that is a clear distortion of the continuationist position. Our position is that, ultimately, the POTENTIAL for giftedness is the same now as in the early church (if properly fanned into flame).
 
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TruthSeek3r

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Endless repetition of the same strawman. As you've been told a thousand times, that is a clear distortion of the continuationist position. Our position is that, ultimately, the POTENTIAL for giftedness is the same now as in the early church (if properly fanned into flame).

My current views make me agree with this. However, I'm curious as to what, according to you, would be the proper way to fan into flame the gifts of the Spirit. Do you know of people who have been able to "fan into flame" their gifts to levels comparable to those of the apostles in Acts?
 
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TruthSeek3r

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The gifts were a common and powerful witness in the Apostolic Church, helping to spread the faith to skeptical pagan peoples. In time, they became only occasional. The people who recognize this truth have been termed cessationists. The people who want to think that the gifts have always operated in the same way as they did in the early church are called continuationists even though the gifts clearly are not playing the role that they did then.

What is your definition of "occasional"? Do you believe the gifts are still "occasionally" active today?
 
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tturt

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This forum is only for posters who believe signs are for today - see forum rules

Cessationist to continuationist:

"And many other signs truly did Jesus in the presence of his disciples, which are not written in this book:
But these are written, that ye might believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God; and that believing ye might have life through his name." John 20:30-31

"This beginning of miracles did Jesus in Cana of Galilee, and manifested forth his glory; and his disciples believed on him." John 2:11

One thing Jesus said about signs and wonders:
"Jesus, while on earth, said look at the signs and wonders "If I do not the works of my Father, believe me not. But if I do, though ye believe not me, believe the works: that ye may know, and believe, that the Father is in me, and I in Him." John 10:37-38
 
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atpollard

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Do you know of people who have been able to "fan into flame" their gifts to levels comparable to those of the apostles in Acts?
I do not like the description "'fan into flame' their gifts".

1 Corinthians 12:4-11 [NASB]
Now there are varieties of gifts, but the same Spirit. And there are varieties of ministries, and the same Lord. There are varieties of effects, but the same God who works all things in all persons. But to each one is given the manifestation of the Spirit for the common good. For to one is given the word of wisdom through the Spirit, and to another the word of knowledge according to the same Spirit; to another faith by the same Spirit, and to another gifts of healing by the one Spirit, and to another the effecting of miracles, and to another prophecy, and to another the distinguishing of spirits, to another various kinds of tongues, and to another the interpretation of tongues. But one and the same Spirit works all these things, distributing to each one individually just as He wills.

Fanning gifts into flame focuses too much on OUR ABILITY and too little on GOD'S SOVEREIGNTY.
  1. It implies that God wants to do something, but YOU control what God can do.
  2. It literally means that those with Spiritual Gifts manifested are FIRST CLASS Christians and those without are SECOND CLASS Christians ... just like those that abuse "tongues" to feed pride claim.

What would the purpose be of an Apostolic level of Spiritual Gifting? The original purpose was to authenticate their authority and ministry as an Apostle. Do we need another Gospel or some more Letters added to the Bible or the Church re-established?
 
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topher694

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I do not like the description "'fan into flame' their gifts".

1 Corinthians 12:4-11 [NASB]
Now there are varieties of gifts, but the same Spirit. And there are varieties of ministries, and the same Lord. There are varieties of effects, but the same God who works all things in all persons. But to each one is given the manifestation of the Spirit for the common good. For to one is given the word of wisdom through the Spirit, and to another the word of knowledge according to the same Spirit; to another faith by the same Spirit, and to another gifts of healing by the one Spirit, and to another the effecting of miracles, and to another prophecy, and to another the distinguishing of spirits, to another various kinds of tongues, and to another the interpretation of tongues. But one and the same Spirit works all these things, distributing to each one individually just as He wills.

Fanning gifts into flame focuses too much on OUR ABILITY and too little on GOD'S SOVEREIGNTY.
  1. It implies that God wants to do something, but YOU control what God can do.
  2. It literally means that those with Spiritual Gifts manifested are FIRST CLASS Christians and those without are SECOND CLASS Christians ... just like those that abuse "tongues" to feed pride claim.

What would the purpose be of an Apostolic level of Spiritual Gifting? The original purpose was to authenticate their authority and ministry as an Apostle. Do we need another Gospel or some more Letters added to the Bible or the Church re-established?

But earnestly desire the best gifts. And yet I show you a more excellent way.
1 Cor 12:31

Pursue love, and desire spiritual gifts, but especially that you may prophesy
1 Cor 14:1

Two mentions in this close of proximity means not only that we should desire spiritual gifts, but that God is emphasizing that we should.
 
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TruthSeek3r

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Food for thought:

What did Paul mean when he advised Timothy to "fan into flame the gift of God, which is in you through the laying on of my hands"?

Here is the full context:

2 Timothy 1:3-14 (ESV):

3 I thank God whom I serve, as did my ancestors, with a clear conscience, as I remember you constantly in my prayers night and day. 4 As I remember your tears, I long to see you, that I may be filled with joy. 5 I am reminded of your sincere faith, a faith that dwelt first in your grandmother Lois and your mother Eunice and now, I am sure, dwells in you as well. 6 For this reason I remind you to fan into flame the gift of God, which is in you through the laying on of my hands, 7 for God gave us a spirit not of fear but of power and love and self-control.

8 Therefore do not be ashamed of the testimony about our Lord, nor of me his prisoner, but share in suffering for the gospel by the power of God, 9 who saved us and called us to a holy calling, not because of our works but because of his own purpose and grace, which he gave us in Christ Jesus before the ages began, 10 and which now has been manifested through the appearing of our Savior Christ Jesus, who abolished death and brought life and immortality to light through the gospel, 11 for which I was appointed a preacher and apostle and teacher, 12 which is why I suffer as I do. But I am not ashamed, for I know whom I have believed, and I am convinced that he is able to guard until that day what has been entrusted to me. 13 Follow the pattern of the sound words that you have heard from me, in the faith and love that are in Christ Jesus. 14 By the Holy Spirit who dwells within us, guard the good deposit entrusted to you.
 
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atpollard

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Ephesians 2:4-10 [ESV]
4 But God, being rich in mercy, because of the great love with which he loved us, 5 even when we were dead in our trespasses, made us alive together with Christ--by grace you have been saved-- 6 and raised us up with him and seated us with him in the heavenly places in Christ Jesus, 7 so that in the coming ages he might show the immeasurable riches of his grace in kindness toward us in Christ Jesus. 8 For by grace you have been saved through faith. And this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God, 9 not a result of works, so that no one may boast. 10 For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand, that we should walk in them.
We are LOVED BY GOD!
We have received GRACE (unmerited or undeserved or unearned favor).
THE GIFT OF GOD:
  • Saved
  • by Grace
  • through Faith
  • All three are not of our own doing.
  • ALL THREE are the GIFT of God!
God's WORKMANSHIP (masterpiece, supreme creation demonstrating His skill).
Created to walk in good works that GOD HAS PREPARED IN ADVANCE!

Now return to 2 Timothy and ponder the GIFT OF GOD and the SPIRIT deposited in Timothy (and in us) and the WORK that we have to do. Who is the Master Potter and who is the Vessel? Which one is responsible for choosing the form and shaping the clay?

"So you also, when you have done all that you were commanded, say, 'We are unworthy servants; we have only done what was our duty.'" [Luke 17:10]

Far too many strut around like they are all that and a bag of chips.
 
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topher694

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Ephesians 2:4-10 [ESV]
4 But God, being rich in mercy, because of the great love with which he loved us, 5 even when we were dead in our trespasses, made us alive together with Christ--by grace you have been saved-- 6 and raised us up with him and seated us with him in the heavenly places in Christ Jesus, 7 so that in the coming ages he might show the immeasurable riches of his grace in kindness toward us in Christ Jesus. 8 For by grace you have been saved through faith. And this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God, 9 not a result of works, so that no one may boast. 10 For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand, that we should walk in them.
We are LOVED BY GOD!
We have received GRACE (unmerited or undeserved or unearned favor).
THE GIFT OF GOD:
  • Saved
  • by Grace
  • through Faith
  • All three are not of our own doing.
  • ALL THREE are the GIFT of God!
God's WORKMANSHIP (masterpiece, supreme creation demonstrating His skill).
Created to walk in good works that GOD HAS PREPARED IN ADVANCE!

Now return to 2 Timothy and ponder the GIFT OF GOD and the SPIRIT deposited in Timothy (and in us) and the WORK that we have to do. Who is the Master Potter and who is the Vessel? Which one is responsible for choosing the form and shaping the clay?

"So you also, when you have done all that you were commanded, say, 'We are unworthy servants; we have only done what was our duty.'" [Luke 17:10]

Far too many strut around like they are all that and a bag of chips.
For every mile of narrow road there are two miles of ditch. Balance is key. There is no problem being passionate (fired up) about the gifts of the Spirit AND about God Himself. It just needs to be in balance.
 
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atpollard

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For every mile of narrow road there are two miles of ditch. Balance is key. There is no problem being passionate (fired up) about the gifts of the Spirit AND about God Himself. It just needs to be in balance.
Where is the fun in that? This is the internet.

"You don't know what is enough until you know what is too much." -William Blake
:)
 
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Carl Emerson

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For every mile of narrow road there are two miles of ditch. Balance is key. There is no problem being passionate (fired up) about the gifts of the Spirit AND about God Himself. It just needs to be in balance.

Being fired up because of what God is doing - not because of what we are doing... Not both - no balance.

We seem to miss the fact that ALL has to be motivated by His Love.
 
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topher694

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Being fired up because of what God is doing - not because of what we are doing... Not both - no balance.

We seem to miss the fact that ALL has to be motivated by His Love.
Right, when we begin to think it is US we've strayed into one of the ditches. That's why the "Love" chapter is smack in the middle of the discussion of the Gifts of the Spirit. Love is our motivator. God's not impressed with "our" anointing, because ultimately it is not ours, it's His. But being fired up to understand the gifts and see them in operation (earnestly desire them), with the proper motivation is a good thing.
 
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