The history of how Sunday worship came about

SabbathBlessings · May 15, 2021

Clare73 said:
The Decalogue is insufficient to fulfill Jesus' two commands, it is Jesus' two commands that fulfill the Decalogue, and more.

Maybe you can provide scripture that supports this quote. God’s Ten Commandments are His perfect will that He personally wrote and spoke. You again are making God’s will and Jesus’s will at odds with each other

Jesus kept God’s commandments and advocates that we do too.

John 15:10 If you keep My commandments, you will abide in My love, just as I have kept My Father’s commandments and abide in His love.

Clare73 · May 15, 2021

imge said:
Are you arguing with yourself now?

Not to my knowledge. . .Jesus kept all the law. . .the ceremonial laws were abolished
(Ephesians 2:15).

Hebrews is about obeying God and when you obey, which includes keeping the commandments and the 4th commandment, than we enter into God’s rest. There are two different rests Hebrews is referring to and we don’t receive Christ rest by breaking God’s laws.

Not quite. . .that interpretation does not explain the references to Canaan, to apostasy and unbelief, and the exhortations to God's full-time Sabbath rest--seven days a week, which the weekly Sabbath is not.

I believe Jesus said that He did not come to destroy God’s laws.

In what universe does fulfilling (completing) equate to destroying?
That which is completed is not subject to continuance.

Mathew 5:17-20 Jesus did not come down from Heaven to do His own will but the will of His Fathers. John 6:38 so what you are suggesting is that Jesus was contradicting God when He wrote His laws in our hearts in the New Covenant. Jeremiah 31:33

What is written on the heart does not require conscious practice, it is automatic, not premeditated.
Focus on the written code is Judaizing the NT.

Clare73 · May 15, 2021

HIM said:
No Jesus did not. What you state is not true. Jesus said, "Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind.
This is the first and great commandment. And the second is like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself. On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets."

Two things need noted. No where is the word Only used. Don't add what is not there.

And? . . .did I quote "only" from Scripture?

So Jesus gave more than two commandments?
Don't add what is not there.

And the second; if something is hung from something it is supported. It depends on what it is hanging from. The commandments depend on love in order to be fulfilled.
If they are not from Love they are not being fulfilled properly because they are not being done in and through God's Spirit.

And? . . .does that make more than two commandments?

Your point?
.

mmksparbud · May 15, 2021

HIM said:
And the second; if something is hung from something it is supported. It depends on what it is hanging from. The commandments depend on love in order to be fulfilled. If they are not from Love they are not being fulfilled properly because they are not being done in and through God's Spirit.

Absolutely!! Everyone keeps saying Jesus gave 2 commandments and some will say--ONLY those T 2!
They very conveniently ignore the word "HANG." Mat_22:40 On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets.

This is what those 2 commandments hang by---the first 4 our duty to God, the last 6 our duty to man. This is perfects love, this is the character of God. He is love

Clare73 · May 15, 2021

imge said:
Maybe you can provide scripture that supports this quote.

That's the problem, love of neighbor involves more than the Decalogue of Scripture, more than not murdering them, violating their marriage, lying about them or coveting their spouse or possessions; it can involve such things as comfort, counsel, instruction, bearing their short-comings, service, etc.

We don't need a written code to know, or do, these things.
They are written on our hearts.

HIM · May 15, 2021

mmksparbud said:
Absolutely!! Everyone keeps saying Jesus gave 2 commandments and some will say--ONLY those T 2!
They very conveniently ignore the word "HANG." Mat_22:40 On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets.

This is what those 2 commandments hang by---the first 4 our duty to God, the last 6 our duty to man. This is perfects love, this is the character of God. He is love

Amen Sister, God is very concise. He is not the Author of confusion.

Clare73 · May 15, 2021

HIM said:
Amen Sister, God is very concise. He is not the Author of confusion.

Because his Holy Spirit makes it all clear to us.

We don't need a written code.

SabbathBlessings · May 15, 2021

Clare73 said:
Not to my knowledge. . .Jesus kept all the law. . .the ceremonial laws were abolished
(Ephesians 2:15).

Not quite. . .that interpretation does not explain the references to Canaan, to apostasy and unbelief, and the exhortations to God's full-time Sabbath rest--seven days a week, which the weekly Sabbath is not.

In what universe does fulfilling (completing) equate to destroying?
That which is completed is not subject to continuance.
What is written on the heart does not require conscious practice, it is automatic, not premeditated.
Focus on the written code is Judaizing the NT.

You keep referring to fulfilled like we no longer need to keep God’s laws which means ended/destroyed and contradicts Jesus. Mathew 5:19 Whoever therefore breaks one of the least of these commandments, and teaches men so, shall be called least in the kingdom of heaven; but whoever does and teaches them, he shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.

I do not think least in heaven means necessarily you will be in heaven.

Written in our hearts doesn’t mean we automatically obey. The problem with this theory is it makes us robots and God made that very clear He wanted us to choose Him. He is not going to make us obey Him, we obey because of our love for Him. That means every day we need to choose right from wrong, to sin or not sin.

SabbathBlessings · May 15, 2021

Clare73 said:
That's the problem, love of neighbor involves more than the Decalogue of Scripture, more than not murdering them, violating their marriage, lying about them or coveting their spouse or possessions; it can involve such things as comfort, counsel, instruction, bearing their short-comings, service, etc.

We don't need a written code to know, or do, these things.
They are written on our hearts.

Maybe you do not understand what it means when Jesus came to magnify God’s laws. Isaiah 42:21 There is the literally commandments we need to keep “not murder” and there is the spiritual commandments “murder begins in the heart” not to be angry with our neighbors etc. This is what Jesus taught.

HIM · May 15, 2021

Clare73 said:
And? . . .did I quote "only" from Scripture?

As seen in the quote here below; You said, "when Jesus commanded only". If you are now retracting that that is wonderful. Praise God!

Clare73 said:
Precisely, but you never state that the Decalogue was transcended, when Jesus commanded only two commandments (Matthew 22:27-31), which require much more than the Decalogue ever did.

Clare73 said:
So Jesus gave more than two commandments?

Love God and Love for one another is from the Torah. Jesus was Quoting what was written. He did not add to the Word or take away

Clare73 said:
Don't add what is not there.

The Lord rebuke thee

Clare73 said:
And? . . .does that make more than two commandments?

Yes all the law hangs; depends on the two. Not the two do away with or Jesus commanded only two.

Clare73 said:
Your point?
.

Truth. What the Word of God says not what we want it to say.

Do you realize that you are teaching here and not just posting a opinion? There is a lot a responsibility that comes with the Gift of teaching or taking part in teaching God's word.

HIM · May 15, 2021

Clare73 said:
Because his Holy Spirit makes it all clear to us.

We don't need a written code.

If that spirit is going against what is written in the Holy Writ, the Bible then it is not holy and of God.

BobRyan · May 15, 2021

rockytopva said:
The history of how Sunday worship came about? How about...

And very early in the morning the first day of the week, they came unto the sepulchre at the rising of the sun. - Mark 16:2

Then the same day at evening, being the first day of the week, when the doors were shut where the disciples were assembled for fear of the Jews, came Jesus and stood in the midst, and saith unto them, Peace be unto you. - John 20:19

And upon the first day of the week, when the disciples came together to break bread, Paul preached unto them, ready to depart on the morrow; and continued his speech until midnight. - Acts 20:7

Upon the first day of the week let every one of you lay by him in store, as God hath prospered him, that there be no gatherings when I come. - 1 Corinthians 16:2

The nice thing is that pretty much everyone agrees that:

Jesus was resurrected on week-day-1
the "first day of the week" in the Bible is what we call Sunday.
and that the Sabbath commandment says "the seventh day IS the Sabbath of the LORD (YHWH)" Ex 20:10

Clare73 · May 15, 2021

imge said:
You keep referring to fulfilled like we no longer need to keep God’s laws which means ended/destroyed and contradicts Jesus. Mathew 5:19 Whoever therefore breaks one of the least of these commandments, and teaches men so, shall be called least in the kingdom of heaven; but whoever does and teaches them, he shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.
I do not think least in heaven means necessarily you will be in heaven.

Written in our hearts doesn’t mean we automatically obey. The problem with this theory is it makes us robots and God made that very clear He wanted us to choose Him.

C'mon. . .you know the indwelling Holy Spirit does not make us robots.

He is not going to make us obey Him, we obey because of our love for Him. That means every day we need to choose right from wrong, to sin or not sin.

BobRyan · May 15, 2021

Akita Suggagaki said:
Let's rest on Saturday and worship on Sunday.

Lev 23:3 - The 7th day Sabbath is a "day of holy convocation"
Is 66:23 for all eternity after the cross in the New Earth "from Sabbath to Sabbath shall ALL mankind come before Me to worship"

BobRyan · May 15, 2021

rockytopva said:
And upon the first day of the week, when the disciples came together to break bread, Paul preached unto them, ready to depart on the morrow; and continued his speech until midnight. - Acts 20:7

A one time event.

Acts 18:4 "Every Sabbath" they gather for gospel preaching for both gentiles and Jews.

rockytopva said:
Upon the first day of the week let every one of you lay by him in store, as God hath prospered him, that there be no gatherings when I come. - 1 Corinthians 16:2

Lay in store by himself alone at home - vs "week day 1 is now the Lord's day when we gather for worship"

Clare73 · May 15, 2021

HIM said:
As seen in the quote here below; You said, "when Jesus commanded only". If you are now retracting that that is wonderful. Praise God!

Love God and Love for one another is from the Torah. Jesus was Quoting what was written. He did not add to the Word or take away
The Lord rebuke thee

Yes all the law hangs; depends on the two. Not the two do away with or Jesus commanded only two.

Paul tells us precisely what that means in Romans 13:8-10: "Love fulfills the law," all ten fulfilled in love alone.

Truth. What the Word of God says not what we want it to say.

Do you realize that you are teaching here and not just posting a opinion? There is a lot a responsibility that comes with the Gift of teaching or taking part in teaching God's word.

Thy speech doth betray thee.

Daniel Marsh · May 15, 2021

imge said:
Interesting, but what is missing is God commanding us to not keep His seventh day Sabbath holy and the first day is now God's new holy day. The verses you quoted say no such thing.

According to God, He commanded us to keep the seventh day holy. This is the day that is God's Sabbath according to God. Exodus 20:8-11, Genesis 2:3 He told us it is a perpetual covenant Exodus 31:16 which is why on the New Earth we will continue worshipping God on His chosen day Isaiah 66:23 not the day that is a commandment of man that Jesus warns us about Mathew 15:3-9. It's well documented the change in the day of worship for the majority of people and that change came from outside the Bible. Since our God is our Creator and Savior, I am going to let God be God and worship Him on the day He asked us to REMEMBER and keep holy.

Jesus kept the Sabbath and are we not told to follow Jesus? Luke 4:16. His disciples kept Sabbath as well Acts 18:4 and Paul summed it up when he told us but keeping the commandments of God is what matters. 1 Corinthians 7:19

God bless and Happy Sabbath!

Those commands were to israel. Today, Romans 14 is the rule.

Daniel Marsh · May 15, 2021

dqhall said:
Constantine legalized Christianity. He also recognized worship of the sun was popular in his day. The sun god was worshipped on Sunday. Constantine decreed no work should be done on Sunday.
QUERY COLUMN: Pagan Sunday Observance

Jesus taught we may do what ever we need to do on Saturday, the Jewish Shabbat. Many get two days off for rest and relaxation, or for whatever they need to do. The young and strong may need to work more hours than the elderly.

People worship on sunday way before Constantine was born.
Besides he was a christian. Thus not pagan worship.

Daniel Marsh · May 15, 2021

"In the year 321 A.D., Constantine decreed, "On the venerable day of the Sun let the magistrates and people residing in cities rest, and let all workshops be closed" (Codex Justinianus lib. 3, tit. 12, 3; trans. in Philip Schaff, History of the Christian Church, Vol. 3, p. 380, note 1). Constantine seems to have made this change himself and not through the papacy, since the papacy had not really come in to being at that time. The papacy grew gradually out of the office of Bishop and for many years this was centered in Rome. In any case, it should be noted that in doing this, Constantine is not changing the Sabbath; he is merely making Sunday the official day of rest for the Roman Empire. His motivation was probably not born out of hatred for the Jews (it’s hard to say for sure why Constantine or any historical figure did what they did) but out of a desire to adopt what the Christians had practiced for nearly two and a half centuries."
Did Constantine change the Sabbath from Saturday to Sunday? | GotQuestions.org

BobRyan · May 15, 2021

Daniel Marsh said:
Those commands were to israel. Today, Romans 14 is the rule.

1. Rom 14 does not mention the weekly Sabbath.
2. "Love God with all your heart" Deut 6:5 - was given to Israel
3. "Do not take God's name in vain" Ex 20:7 was given to Israel and not quoted in the NT
4. Jer 31:31-34 New Covenant was given to Israel - and is unchanged verbatim in the NT - Heb 8:6-12

And Bible scholars in almost all major Christian denominations (on BOTH sides of the Sabbath debate) affirm the Bible fact that all TEN of the TEN Commandments are included in the moral law of God known to Jeremiah and his readers in Jer 31:31-34 and written on the heart under the New Covenant.

The history of how Sunday worship came about

Well-Known Member

Blood-bought

Blood-bought

Well-Known Member

Blood-bought

Friend

Blood-bought

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Friend

Friend

Junior Member

Blood-bought

Junior Member

Junior Member

Blood-bought

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Junior Member

Similar threads