A GOP Civil War? Don’t Bet On It. (Politico)

essentialsaltes · May 12, 2021

Albion said:
But the facts remain the facts, and the colorful way that people juice up the story with terms like "insurrection" does not do anyone a service, not to mention falsely attributing it to President Trump's speech even though those people had not listened to it.

You mean the speech at the event that was literally called "Stop the Steal"?
The one where he called on his followers to march to the Capitol and fight for their country?
The one where cellphone data shows that people did just that?
Some of those people certainly did listen to Trump's speech.

SoldierOfTheKing · May 12, 2021

Vylo said:
They were literally there to try and get congress to change the vote, and several congressional members actually tried to do that.

They were there to protest election fraud by disrupting, hence delaying, the House's certification of the election results, which they succeeded in doing. It was to make sure their case wasn't ignored, as it likely would have been had they stayed outside.

NxNW · May 12, 2021

SoldierOfTheKing said:
They were there to protest election fraud by disrupting, hence delaying, the House's certification of the election results, which they succeeded in doing. It was to make sure their case wasn't ignored, as it likely would have been had they stayed outside.

What election fraud? McCarthy just said nobody is disputing the legitimacy of the election.

Oneiric1975 · May 12, 2021

SoldierOfTheKing said:
They were there to protest election fraud by disrupting, hence delaying, the House's certification of the election results, which they succeeded in doing. It was to make sure their case wasn't ignored, as it likely would have been had they stayed outside.

WINNER! Best justification for people who took up arms against the US Government ever! Brilliant

Brihaha · May 12, 2021

Albion said:
If we want to be straightforward about this matter and not just score some points with the people reading these posts who already agree with us, we have to say that the President wanted an investigation in order to determine the truth of this matter.

That is nothing malevolent or unusual, and it doesn't mean that if the investigation went against him, that all of the fantastic over-the-top predictions made by some of the same people about what would happen next are to be believed.

Trump's time for "investigation" ended January 6th. It's why he told them to come to DC, cause it's gonna be wild! You can either choose delusions or truth. But not with trumps team. Have you seen his Revenge Tour launch with the ouster of his "enemy" Liz Cheney? Because she spoke truth. Petty revenge demanded by a petty man!

Strathos · May 12, 2021

I don't get why they're so obsessed with this guy, placing him on such a pedestal like an idol. If they liked his policies so much (for some reason), is it somehow treason to think that someone else could execute them better?

Ana the Ist · May 12, 2021

NxNW said:
A GOP Civil War? Don’t Bet On It.
Opinion | A GOP Civil War? Don’t Bet On It.

The pattern is striking: if you want to survive as a Republican official, you will support the former president; if you support the former president, you will support laws that reflect his conviction that the election was stolen; if you enact those rules, you are making it more possible that he will win a second term. The party is talking with one voice; the voice is Trump’s...

Yes, there are those within the party who will resist: Cheney, Adam Kinzinger, blue state governors like Larry Hogan, former GOP Chair Michael Steele, who has been effectively divorced from the party for years. As nominal Republicans, they will win a significant share of coverage in the New York Times, and on CNN and MSNBC. But the idea that they represent one side of a major split within the Republican Party is a fantasy.

As a body, that party has embraced notions about the political process that would have seemed the stuff of parody a decade ago. Donald Trump Jr. was right, in his speech to the crowd just before the Capitol insurrection: this is Trump’s Republican Party, and it’s perfectly united in that conviction. To pretend otherwise—and to pretend that there’s an argument about what it stands for, or some kind of damaging fracture still ahead—is an act of delusion.

You definitely need to believe this if you're a Democrat.

Ana the Ist · May 12, 2021

Albion said:
I'm sure that it was shocking if you watched in person (although watching something from across the river in Virginia doesn't seem to qualify as being in a front row seat).

But the facts remain the facts, and the colorful way that people juice up the story with terms like "insurrection" does not do anyone a service, not to mention falsely attributing it to President Trump's speech even though those people had not listened to it.

It was "mostly peaceful" with just a few "bad actors" that didn't represent the "majority of protesters".

9Rock9 · May 12, 2021

Strathos said:
I don't get why they're so obsessed with this guy, placing him on such a pedestal like an idol. If they liked his policies so much (for some reason), is it somehow treason to think that someone else could execute them better?

I think many of them do, but it's still early into Biden's presidency, and we have four years, so someone else with Trump's policies might show up by then. Until then, they don't really have anyone to throw their support around.

I think most of the backlash is against the Republicans who are completely against his policies. They don't want to go back to the pre-2016 establishment Republican.

Vylo · May 12, 2021

SoldierOfTheKing said:
They were there to protest election fraud by disrupting, hence delaying, the House's certification of the election results, which they succeeded in doing. It was to make sure their case wasn't ignored, as it likely would have been had they stayed outside.

Non-existent election fraud, as displayed by the dozens of conservative and even trump appointed judges that threw out there nonsense.

Also that doesn't allow them to violate federal laws by breaking, entering, and trespassing on federal property, and it was more than just that. They were literally chanting to kill the vice president with gallows behind them. This was an insurrection. To call it anything less is dishonest at best.

wing2000 · May 12, 2021

Vylo said:
Non-existent election fraud, as displayed by the dozens of conservative and even trump appointed judges that threw out there nonsense.

Also that doesn't allow them to violate federal laws by breaking, entering, and trespassing on federal property, and it was more than just that. They were literally chanting to kill the vice president with gallows behind them. This was an insurrection. To call it anything less is dishonest at best.

Nah, just "normal tourists" on a visit to the Capitol - ..from a hearing on Capitol security today.....

Rep. Andrew S. Clyde (R-Ga.) downplayed the events of Jan. 6 as “acts of vandalism” and suggested it was a “boldfaced lie” to call what happened that day an “insurrection.”

“Watching the TV footage of those who entered the Capitol and walked through Statuary Hall showed people in an orderly fashion staying between the stanchions and ropes, taking videos, pictures,” Clyde said. “You know, if you didn’t know the TV footage was a video from January the 6th, you would actually think it was a normal tourist visit.”

https://www.washingtonpost.com/poli...c03342-b351-11eb-a980-a60af976ed44_story.html

Albion · May 13, 2021

Brihaha said:
Trump's time for "investigation" ended January 6th. It's why he told them to come to DC, cause it's gonna be wild! You can either choose delusions or truth.

I chose the truth, knowing that the myth of a Trump-directed "insurrection" is too attractive for some people to give up. But I can understand that. It's how they have reimagined the event that is more offensive.

Albion · May 13, 2021

Ana the Ist said:
It was "mostly peaceful" with just a few "bad actors" that didn't represent the "majority of protesters".

Well, that IS the now-standard, must-believe, view of riots and insurrections, isn't it? Except for this one, that is. With this one, we all are supposed to think that it was much, much more than it really was.

GoldenBoy89 · May 13, 2021

Albion said:
Huh? So now it's not enough to claim that the Democrats did not steal the election, but we're supposed also to believe that the Republicans (!) tried to get illegals to vote, fraudsters to vote multiple times, ballots to be delivered to the polls by people other than the rightful voter, poll workers to count the same ballots multiple times, and so on?????

Trumps lies about a ‘stolen election’ were his attempt to steal the election for himself. He actively tried to undermine the will of the people. There’s your election fraud if you’re still looking for some.

hislegacy · May 13, 2021

NxNW said:
A GOP Civil War? Don’t Bet On It.
Opinion | A GOP Civil War? Don’t Bet On It.

The pattern is striking: if you want to survive as a Republican official, you will support the former president; if you support the former president, you will support laws that reflect his conviction that the election was stolen; if you enact those rules, you are making it more possible that he will win a second term. The party is talking with one voice; the voice is Trump’s...

Yes, there are those within the party who will resist: Cheney, Adam Kinzinger, blue state governors like Larry Hogan, former GOP Chair Michael Steele, who has been effectively divorced from the party for years. As nominal Republicans, they will win a significant share of coverage in the New York Times, and on CNN and MSNBC. But the idea that they represent one side of a major split within the Republican Party is a fantasy.

As a body, that party has embraced notions about the political process that would have seemed the stuff of parody a decade ago. Donald Trump Jr. was right, in his speech to the crowd just before the Capitol insurrection: this is Trump’s Republican Party, and it’s perfectly united in that conviction. To pretend otherwise—and to pretend that there’s an argument about what it stands for, or some kind of damaging fracture still ahead—is an act of delusion.

The OP seems to have missed the byline - right below the title

We've heard that narrative before. The Democrats believe it at their peril.

Interesting.

Here are some other parts missing from the OP:

Among Democrats painfully aware of their tiny or non-existent margins in the House and Senate, the prospect of a divided Republican Party offers hope that this “civil war” will redound to Democrats’ advantage in 2022.

They shouldn’t be so sure.

First, beyond a few spats that make headlines, it’s getting harder to detect any serious division among rank-and-file Republicans.

Then

Second, and more significant, history is littered with times that critics on the left, and in the pundit class, were positive the Republican Party was setting itself up for defeat by embracing its extremes ... only to watch the party comfortably surge into power.

Trump-dominated Republican Party is a strong contender to take the White House next time around.

wing2000 · May 13, 2021

hislegacy said:
First, beyond a few spats that make headlines, it’s getting harder to detect any serious division among rank-and-file Republicans.

Yes, it's clear they have signed on to a losing 2022 strategy. I guess losing both houses of Congress and the Presidency in 2020 wasn't enough.

GoldenBoy89 · May 13, 2021

SoldierOfTheKing said:
They were there to protest election fraud by disrupting, hence delaying, the House's certification of the election results, which they succeeded in doing. It was to make sure their case wasn't ignored, as it likely would have been had they stayed outside.

The election fraud lie that Trump pushed from well before any votes were even cast in the election was the actual election fraud. That was the only earnest attempt to steal the election from the people who voted in it.

hislegacy · May 13, 2021

wing2000 said:
Yes, it's clear they have signed on to a losing 2022 strategy. I guess losing both houses of Congress and the Presidency in 2020 wasn't enough.

Time will tell.

Ever notice that under Obama the Democrats lost over 1,100 seats nationally, and statewide - yet during the Trump Administration the Republicans gained seats.

Predicted 'blue wave' fails to reach the House

Democrats’ ‘Blue Wave’ Crashed in Statehouses Across the Country

SoldierOfTheKing · May 13, 2021

GoldenBoy89 said:
The election fraud lie that Trump pushed from well before any votes were even cast in the election was the actual election fraud.

Trump and others saw it coming, with the relaxed security measures in many swing states.

SoldierOfTheKing · May 13, 2021

Vylo said:
Non-existent election fraud, as displayed by the dozens of conservative and even trump appointed judges that threw out there nonsense.

Judges aren't the only one's entitled to opinions, and even they never said there was no election fraud - merely that it wasn't sufficient to challenge the election results.

Vylo said:
Also that doesn't allow them to violate federal laws by breaking, entering, and trespassing on federal property, and it was more than just that. They were literally chanting to kill the vice president with gallows behind them. This was an insurrection. To call it anything less is dishonest at best.

A few of the demonstrators outside the Capitol had erected gallows. But you're forgetting about a little something called the First Amendment...

A GOP Civil War? Don’t Bet On It. (Politico)

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