A GOP Civil War? Don’t Bet On It. (Politico)

My hope is that Liz Cheney will start a third party to try to restore the conservative values of the classic Republican philosophy, thereby taking on the angry personality cult the GOP has become.

NxNW said:

A GOP Civil War? Don’t Bet On It.
Opinion | A GOP Civil War? Don’t Bet On It.

The pattern is striking: if you want to survive as a Republican official, you will support the former president; if you support the former president, you will support laws that reflect his conviction that the election was stolen; if you enact those rules, you are making it more possible that he will win a second term. The party is talking with one voice; the voice is Trump’s...

Yes, there are those within the party who will resist: Cheney, Adam Kinzinger, blue state governors like Larry Hogan, former GOP Chair Michael Steele, who has been effectively divorced from the party for years. As nominal Republicans, they will win a significant share of coverage in the New York Times, and on CNN and MSNBC. But the idea that they represent one side of a major split within the Republican Party is a fantasy.

As a body, that party has embraced notions about the political process that would have seemed the stuff of parody a decade ago. Donald Trump Jr. was right, in his speech to the crowd just before the Capitol insurrection: this is Trump’s Republican Party, and it’s perfectly united in that conviction. To pretend otherwise—and to pretend that there’s an argument about what it stands for, or some kind of damaging fracture still ahead—is an act of delusion.

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So now are we stuck with the party of Stolen Elections on the one hand vs. the party of Russian Collusion on the other?

It does seem as though we're entering a time when stereotypes of both parties define them, whether the facts are right or not. Social media may be the cause since repeating such jargon over and over again is what makes them stick.

No message/duplicate

NxNW said:

Well, no. The same party colluded with Russia and then tried to steal the election.

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Huh? So now it's not enough to claim that the Democrats did not steal the election, but we're supposed also to believe that the Republicans (!) tried to get illegals to vote, fraudsters to vote multiple times, ballots to be delivered to the polls by people other than the rightful voter, poll workers to count the same ballots multiple times, and so on?????

I hope when Trump is indicted by the Manhattan D.A. for Stormy Daniels hush money and numerous tax fraud charges, or by Georgia for trying to alter election results that perhaps many of these Republicans will find their consciences and courage again and reject Trump.

While the OP is almost certainly right, this will not prevent many not-so-Trumpy Republican voters from quietly heading for the exits. Or rather, just staying home on election day. There may be no civil war in the party leadership, but there is a divide in the electorate.

Fantine said:

I hope when Trump is indicted by the Manhattan D.A. for Stormy Daniels hush money and numerous tax fraud charges, or by Georgia for trying to alter election results that perhaps many of these Republicans will find their consciences and courage again and reject Trump.

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That's unlikely to happen considering the most popular excuse among many of these Republicans has been "I voted for a President, not a pastor!" and their loyalty towards him hasn't wavered in 5 years.

Albion said:

Huh? So now it's not enough to claim that the Democrats did not steal the election, but we're supposed also to believe that the Republicans (!) tried to get illegals to vote, fraudsters to vote multiple times, ballots to be delivered to the polls by people other than the rightful voter, poll workers to count the same ballots multiple times, and so on?????

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They tried to steal it by trying to overthrow the vote of the people, violently, before one of them was put down for their efforts near the same time reinforcements for the police showed up and they realized that further sedition might cost them their lives.

That's ridiculous. Whatever you may think of the incident at the Capitol, that wasn't the Republican Party and the figures involved weren't even all Trump supporters. The idea that this was some revolution that would upend the decision of the voters on election day is too silly to debate further.

Albion said:

The idea that this was some revolution that would upend the decision of the voters on election day is too silly to debate further.

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It was silly and dangerous, but that was the motivation of some of the people trying to 'stop the steal'.

One of the comments cited in the FBI memo declared Trump supporters should go to Washington and get “violent. Stop calling this a march, or rally, or a protest. Go there ready for war. We get our President or we die.”

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“If [Biden is inaugurated], our way of life as we know it is over. Our Republic would be over. Then it is our duty as Americans to fight, kill and die for our rights. . . . If Biden get the steal, none of us have a chance in my mind. We already have our neck in the noose. They just haven’t kicked the chair yet.”

Albion said:

That's ridiculous. Whatever you may think of the incident at the Capitol, that wasn't the Republican Party and the figures involved weren't even all Trump supporters. The idea that this was some revolution that would upend the decision of the voters on election day is too silly to debate further.

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They were literally there to try and get congress to change the vote, and several congressional members actually tried to do that.


They called it a revolution in their own words.


They set up gallows outside.



They forced their way in to the point where it required lethal force to stop their advance. They went through congressional offices and chambers, stealing items, destroying property and defecating throughout the building.

MAGA mob rioters smeared their own feces in US Capitol

They were Trump supporters. They were garbed in his merchandise, shouting his memes and catch phrases. The woman who was shot literally died wrapped in a Trump flag.

NxNW said:

As a body, that party has embraced notions about the political process that would have seemed the stuff of parody a decade ago. Donald Trump Jr. was right, in his speech to the crowd just before the Capitol insurrection: this is Trump’s Republican Party, and it’s perfectly united in that conviction. To pretend otherwise—and to pretend that there’s an argument about what it stands for, or some kind of damaging fracture still ahead—is an act of delusion.

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The House leadership has proven him correct. They really should re-name their party as it bears no resemblance to the Republican party of Lincoln and Reagan.

Albion said:

That's ridiculous. Whatever you may think of the incident at the Capitol, that wasn't the Republican Party and the figures involved weren't even all Trump supporters. The idea that this was some revolution that would upend the decision of the voters on election day is too silly to debate further.

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You could see all that from Wisconsin? The view from across the river in Virginia was different.

Aryeh Jay said:

You could see all that from Wisconsin? The view from across the river in Virginia was different.

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I'm sure that it was shocking if you watched in person (although watching something from across the river in Virginia doesn't seem to qualify as being in a front row seat).

But the facts remain the facts, and the colorful way that people juice up the story with terms like "insurrection" does not do anyone a service, not to mention falsely attributing it to President Trump's speech even though those people had not listened to it.

Albion said:

That's ridiculous. Whatever you may think of the incident at the Capitol, that wasn't the Republican Party and the figures involved weren't even all Trump supporters. The idea that this was some revolution that would upend the decision of the voters on election day is too silly to debate further.

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Trump seemed to believe he could remain president if his cult actually halted our government from certifying the election for Joe. So did many participants. I heard them interviewing the folks marching to the Capitol. They thought they were preventing Biden from becoming president.

Brihaha said:

Trump seemed to believe he could remain president if his cult actually halted our government from certifying the election for Joe.

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If we want to be straightforward about this matter and not just score some points with the people reading these posts who already agree with us, we have to say that the President wanted an investigation in order to determine the truth of this matter.

That is nothing malevolent or unusual, and it doesn't mean that if the investigation went against him, that all of the fantastic over-the-top predictions made by some of the same people about what would happen next are to be believed.

Albion said:

I'm sure that it was shocking if you watched in person (although watching something from across the river in Virginia doesn't seem to qualify as being in a front row seat).

But the facts remain the facts, and the colorful way that people juice up the story with terms like "insurrection" does not do anyone a service, not to mention falsely attributing it to President Trump's speech even though those people had not listened to it.

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It wasn't juicing up. You can watch the raw videos the insurrectionists took themselves, and frankly, it looks a whole lot worse than what the news showed. We had a violent mob a few dozen feet from the entirety of our congress, and the bulk of the presidential succession, including Mike Pence himself, with them chanting to hang him with gallows literally set up in the yard: