Biblical truth and a spirit of unbelief

lifepsyop

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I have come in my Father's name, and you do not receive me. If another comes in his own name, you will receive him. How can you believe, when you receive glory from one another and do not seek the glory that comes from the only God? Do not think that I will accuse you to the Father. There is one who accuses you: Moses, on whom you have set your hope. For if you believed Moses, you would believe me; for he wrote of me. But if you do not believe his writings, how will you believe my words? - John 5:43-47

On the topic of Creation and "Theistic Evolution", I've come to understand there is a kind of spirit of unbelief in the church. It involves the way that professing believers tend to 'naturalize' everything, or view it through the lens of materialism, or what is commonly held as an enlightened, intellectual, rational view of the universe, past, present, and future. (e.g. Theistic Evolution)

The apostle Peter connected this disbelief in Biblical history with a disbelief in the coming judgment of the Day of the Lord, when Christ returns to Earth, not as a suffering servant but the conquering King of Kings.

Here is what Peter had to say about it:

This is now the second letter that I am writing to you, beloved. In both of them I am stirring up your sincere mind by way of reminder, that you should remember the predictions of the holy prophets and the commandment of the Lord and Savior through your apostles, knowing this first of all, that scoffers will come in the last days with scoffing, following their own sinful desires. They will say, “Where is the promise of his coming? For ever since the fathers fell asleep, all things are continuing as they were from the beginning of creation.” For they deliberately overlook this fact, that the heavens existed long ago, and the earth was formed out of water and through water by the word of God, and that by means of these the world that then existed was deluged with water and perished. But by the same word the heavens and earth that now exist are stored up for fire, being kept until the day of judgment and destruction of the ungodly. - 2 Peter 3:1-7

Interesting how Peter connects these elements of denial.

It seems that the many professing believers who deny Biblical history... (creation, the fall, the flood, the historical Exodus, etc.) ... these same individuals also tend to deny the prophetic "Day of the Lord" (a prophecy of the Messiah's return that makes up roughly a THIRD of the Bible, both the Old and New Testaments, spoken in detail of by the ancient prophets, Jesus himself, and the apostles...)

This kind of disbelief that Peter outlined seems to have the effect of cutting off the truth of both the past and the future, the beginning and the end, the root and the flower, and replacing it with an amorphous, disconnected belief in a Jesus that is not found in scripture.

Isn't this what we see today? Don't those who deny the historicity and the actuality of the past judgment of the worldwide flood, also deny the actuality of the coming judgment in the Day of the Lord? Don't they tend to allegorize both? (this is where you tend to see a lot of Amillenialism and Post-Millenialism beliefs popping up in people's eschatology)

I do not think it is a coincidence that Peter linked these two bookends of unbelief. It is the same scoffing, disbelieving spirit that denies the narrow way of the truth.

The Jesus of the New Testament repeatedly attested to the history of Moses, and spoke in great detail on his future return that would mark the end of this present age. (See Matthew Chapter 24)

As it was in the days of Noah, so it will be at the coming of the Son of Man. For in the days before the flood, people were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, up to the day Noah entered the ark; and they knew nothing about what would happen until the flood came and took them all away. That is how it will be at the coming of the Son of Man. - Matthew 24:37-39

Jesus believes in both the days of Noah, and the coming Son of Man.
Why don't we? Why do we bow to the altar of human reasoning and the Evolutionist creation story? Does it make us feel like we have more control over our reality?

Even the Israelites that bowed to the molten calf, claimed to be worshipping the God almighty who brought them out of Egypt. (Nehemiah 9:18) But it wasn't really God the Father. It was something they made with their own hands, because instead of obeying the true God of all creation, they wanted to seize the kingdom for themselves.... not wander through the wilderness under God's complete authority.

I think when we deny both scriptural past, and scriptural future prophecy, we are removing the knowledge of the full dominion that God has over creation. When we allegorize the actual, and reduce it into mere symbolism and metaphor, we inwardly reclaim some form of perceived dominance over our reality. We get some perceived authority back, and we like that, because the Bible teaches us that man has been rebelling against his Creator since the beginning. It's essentially what human civilization is. Rebellion.

Is denying the actuality, the historicity of scripture not some form of rebellion?
"Did God really say?" ....


For if you believed Moses, you would believe me; for he wrote of me. But if you do not believe his writings, how will you believe my words? - John 5:46-47

And the angel said to me, “Write this: Blessed are those who are invited to the marriage supper of the Lamb.” And he said to me, “These are the true words of God.” Then I fell down at his feet to worship him, but he said to me, “You must not do that! I am a fellow servant with you and your brothers who hold to the testimony of Jesus. Worship God.” For the testimony of Jesus is the spirit of prophecy. - Revelation 19:9-10

For ears to hear.
Psalm 111:10
 

lifepsyop

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You should have done a poll, it would be interesting to know if disbelief in creation/fall/flood is matched to disbelief in the end times in members on here. I can't say I have noticed it, but I don't frequent that area of the board.

I'm sure there are exceptions, but they do seem to be closely related, in terms of: if you doubt one, you probably doubt the other. Supposedly theistic evolution is a position arrived at by objectively following "science", yet the veneer of science can't be invoked with regards to doubting a future prophetic event. This is where we see it was never really about science to begin with. It was always about a doubt of God's word that lingered in our hearts.

At the end of the day, after church is over on Sunday, we want to resume control over our world and we want to be the ones in charge of our kingdom. The reality of global divine judgment snatches that authority away from us and so we prefer to allegorize the Bible. (we say the flood is just a moral fable... and the Day of the Lord is just a symbolic allegory for good overcoming evil in the end) ... Likewise we push the Fall and the Curse of Genesis 3 into the realm of storytelling for the same reason. If we believe these things are real events then it takes away all of our authority and gives it back to God.

I now understand why ancient Israel so easily fell back into idolatry. Baal-worshippers would claim they are worshipping the God almighty. They would invoke God's name with their lips and claim to be worshipping the God that gave them the land, but inwardly their hearts were far from him and they wanted to run their lives their own way, and so they would slay the prophets that tried to turn them back to a belief in the scriptures and the judgment that lay in store for them if they continued in their rebellion. (Matthew 15:8-9)
 
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Derek1234

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I'm not entirely sure I follow your point. There is a spectrum of what people believe, and I'm confident that most professing Christians are more interested in asserting that God was the author of creation than the mechanism by which He did it. The scientific method clearly demonstrates a very old earth, and that evolution occurred. Adherents to the idea of theistic evolution marvel at God's creation, no less than YECs.
 
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Halbhh

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When we allegorize the actual, and reduce it into mere symbolism and metaphor,

Let us listen to this wonderful lesson from our Lord:

1 “At that time the kingdom of heaven will be like ten virgins who took their lamps and went out to meet the bridegroom. 2 Five of them were foolish and five were wise. 3 The foolish ones took their lamps but did not take any oil with them. 4 The wise ones, however, took oil in jars along with their lamps. 5 The bridegroom was a long time in coming, and they all became drowsy and fell asleep.

6 “At midnight the cry rang out: ‘Here’s the bridegroom! Come out to meet him!’

7 “Then all the virgins woke up and trimmed their lamps. 8 The foolish ones said to the wise, ‘Give us some of your oil; our lamps are going out.’

9“ ‘No,’ they replied, ‘there may not be enough for both us and you. Instead, go to those who sell oil and buy some for yourselves.’

10 “But while they were on their way to buy the oil, the bridegroom arrived. The virgins who were ready went in with him to the wedding banquet. And the door was shut.

11 “Later the others also came. ‘Lord, Lord,’ they said, ‘open the door for us!’

12 “But he replied, ‘Truly I tell you, I don’t know you.’

13 “Therefore keep watch, because you do not know the day or the hour.


Matthew 25 NIV

The truths Christ says to us using allegory, symbolism and metaphor are more true than 'facts' you or I think we know!

Metaphor from Him = True.

"Facts" from us = not so crucially or indispensably true as are His metaphors and allegories.

So, what should we conclude here then? First, first of all! -- to go and refill one's lamp with more oil! Don't delay.

Second, listen to more of what He says!
 
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lifepsyop

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The truths Christ says to us using allegory, symbolism and metaphor are more true than 'facts' you or I think we know!

Metaphor from Him = True.

"Facts" from us = not so crucially or indispensably true as are His metaphors and allegories.

Jesus used parables to communicate great spiritual realities. It would be a huge mistake to invoke parables in order to negate the actuality of such foundational events in scripture. Not only does it make no sense, but to follow that logic leads you down a path where there is no reason not to allegorize the cross and the resurrection as well. (and I have run into professing believers who have fallen into that trap)

The parable of the ten virgins is communicating something crucially important concerning the return of the bridegroom for his bride (the church), otherwise known as the Day of the Lord, when Christ returns to gather his followers and judge the wicked.

If there is no real actual day of judgment when the bridegroom returns, then the parable is meaningless. Likewise if there was no real worldwide judgment in the days of Noah, then referencing it, as Jesus and the apostles do, is meaningless as the function of a warning.

"...when the Son of Man comes, will he find faith on earth?"
- Luke 18:8

Again, consider the apostle Peter who explicitly describes a falling away of faith whereby people will deny the reality of creation, the worldwide flood, and a real Day of the Lord. (2 Peter 3)

He is not ambiguous about this. This is the spirit of unbelief I am talking about... When something is spelled out so clearly and yet one cannot hear it because it causes offense.

The choice is whether to believe Jesus, the prophets, and the apostles... or to put your faith in ever-changing theories of men.
 
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Halbhh

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Jesus used parables to communicate great spiritual realities. It would be a huge mistake to invoke parables in order to negate the actuality of such foundational events in scripture. Not only does it make no sense, but to follow that logic leads you down a path where there is no reason not to allegorize the cross and the resurrection as well. (and I have run into professing believers who have fallen into that trap)

The parable of the ten virgins is communicating something crucially important concerning the return of the bridegroom for his bride (the church), otherwise known as the Day of the Lord, when Christ returns to gather his followers and judge the wicked.

If there is no real actual day of judgment when the bridegroom returns, then the parable is meaningless. Likewise if there was no real worldwide judgment in the days of Noah, then referencing it, as Jesus and the apostles do, is meaningless as the function of a warning.

"...when the Son of Man comes, will he find faith on earth?"
- Luke 18:8

Again, consider the apostle Peter who explicitly describes a falling away of faith whereby people will deny the reality of creation, the worldwide flood, and a real Day of the Lord. (2 Peter 3)

He is not ambiguous about this. This is the spirit of unbelief I am talking about... When something is spelled out so clearly and yet one cannot hear it because it causes offense.

The choice is whether to believe Jesus, the prophets, and the apostles... or to put your faith in ever-changing theories of men.
I see only correct things in this post. I'm glad to see. We sometimes need to help those not reading fully and getting caught up in mistakes like 'flat earth' or other ways of ignoring the full messages in scripture. I think the best way to help someone caught up in a peculiar idea is not to argue. Instead, to encourage them to the only saving belief= that in Christ Jesus for their salvation from their sins. That's what truly helps.
To believe on Him.
 
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coffee4u

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I see only correct things in this post. I'm glad to see. We sometimes need to help those not reading fully and getting caught up in mistakes like 'flat earth' or other ways of ignoring the full messages in scripture. I think the best way to help someone caught up in a peculiar idea is not to argue. Instead, to encourage them to the only saving belief= that in Christ Jesus for their salvation from their sins. That's what truly helps.
To believe on Him.

The Bible does not teach flat earth. This myth keeps on going like a long life energizer bunny. Just when it has died down another thread pops up.

Poetry can contain truth, but poetry takes poetic license. If we read poetry and say this seems to support a flat earth then likewise we should take all the poetry in the Bible and go by what it suggests such as trees have hands and mountains sing.

While they are in mistake this does not affect their salvation. I fear far more for those caught up in evolution than I do for those who believe in a flat earth.
I got caught up in one of these conversations recently due to the person being a non christian. Even after pointing out it doesn't matter and that Jesus is what matters all they could talk about was flat earth.
 
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Halbhh

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The Bible does not teach flat earth. This myth keeps on going like a long life energizer bunny. Just when it has died down another thread pops up.

Poetry can contain truth, but poetry takes poetic license. If we read poetry and say this seems to support a flat earth then likewise we should take all the poetry in the Bible and go by what it suggests such as trees have hands and mountains sing.

While they are in mistake this does not affect their salvation. I fear far more for those caught up in evolution than I do for those who believe in a flat earth.
I got caught up in one of these conversations recently due to the person being a non christian. Even after pointing out it doesn't matter and that Jesus is what matters all they could talk about was flat earth.
Basically, anyone caught up in (putting first in their priorities) anything else that isn't hearing and doing as Christ said could be a good reason to be concerned to at least encourage/turn/remind them back towards faith in Christ (or give them the gospel message!), faith as shown in their focus and actions, because of His own Words about precisely that: hearing and then doing -- Matthew 7:24-27 (or even better is the full chapter) I'm not even as concerned about which particular distraction they are caught up in as I am about what is first in their life, first in their mind, first in their energy and time and focus. If we put God first, following Christ first, then other things will gradually follow the right way over time.
 
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lifepsyop

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I'm not entirely sure I follow your point. There is a spectrum of what people believe, and I'm confident that most professing Christians are more interested in asserting that God was the author of creation than the mechanism by which He did it.

All believers would assert that their god is responsible for creation. The Israelites below Mount Sinai claimed the golden calf was their true god and marveled and rejoiced at it. The identity of the God of the Bible is known from the Bible, particularly His covenantal history with His people. The identity of Jesus is entirely wrapped up in the covenantal history of Israel.

Woe to you! For you build the tombs of the prophets whom your fathers killed. So you are witnesses and you consent to the deeds of your fathers, for they killed them, and you build their tombs. Therefore also the Wisdom of God said, ‘I will send them prophets and apostles, some of whom they will kill and persecute,’ so that the blood of all the prophets, shed from the foundation of the world, may be charged against this generation, from the blood of Abel to the blood of Zechariah, who perished between the altar and the sanctuary. Yes, I tell you, it will be required of this generation. Woe to you lawyers! For you have taken away the key of knowledge. You did not enter yourselves, and you hindered those who were entering.”
- Luke 11:47-52

We talk about the utmost importance of the blood of Jesus shed for us on the cross. Here Jesus is attesting to the blood shed since the time of Cain and Abel, through to the prophets, who were slain for bearing witness to the truth to a generation that didn't want to hear it. Can you not see how untenable it is to mythologize and allegorize the very blood that Christ came to remove from our heads with his own?

And he said to them, “O foolish ones, and slow of heart to believe all that the prophets have spoken! Was it not necessary that the Christ should suffer these things and enter into his glory?” And beginning with Moses and all the Prophets, he interpreted to them in all the Scriptures the things concerning himself.
- Luke 24:25-27


It's Jesus or the World. You can't believe both. You must choose.


For if you believed Moses, you would believe me; for he wrote of me. But if you do not believe his writings, how will you believe my words? - John 5:46-47

The scientific method clearly demonstrates a very old earth, and that evolution occurred.
Adherents to the idea of theistic evolution marvel at God's creation, no less than YECs.

Claiming to speak as an authority for "the scientific method" is meaningless. Everyone, on all sides of a debate, always claims to have the science on their side. You don't really understand the institution of science until you understand how deeply one's metaphysical worldview inserts confirmation bias into the research. We tend to find what we're looking for, just as many professing believers tend to compromise their beliefs in precisely those areas that will reduce social tension and increase social status. The world will give you a pat on the head if you agree to be a "reasonable Christian" and throw your Bible in the garbage bin.

The belief in Evolution is part of an ancient philosophical tradition going back thousands of years, and resurrected in the Enlightenment era. The belief in Evolution today is little more than a repackaged Epicureanism and is completely opposed to the cosmogony and earth history that the prophets, the apostles, and the Son of God attested to.
 
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Jesus believes in both the days of Noah, and the coming Son of Man.
Why don't we?

"A scoffer seeks wisdom in vain, but knowledge is easy for a man of understanding"—Proverbs 14:6

Understanding is freely given to one who believes. Free gift. Unbelief frustrates this grace. Pride is behind all "scientific" unbelief in the Father's explanation of this world, and we know pride blinds us like nothing else can.

Unbelievers are often very literate and wield a battery of "plausible arguments" (1 Cor. 2:4, Col. 2:4), but they do not have the free gift of understanding. A man of understanding agrees with God and that’s enough, he doesn’t have to make sense to unbelievers. Some things one just knows because God has provided the knowing.
 
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Job 33:6

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I like the intent of the OP, bit it just doesn't address physical reality which confirms things like an ancient earth.

And until such a position can, I just can't buy into it.

Such conclusions in geology are no more based on confirmation bias than conclusions such as grass being green or the sun being hot.
 
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Derek1234

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All believers would assert that their god is responsible for creation. The Israelites below Mount Sinai claimed the golden calf was their true god and marveled and rejoiced at it. The identity of the God of the Bible is known from the Bible, particularly His covenantal history with His people. The identity of Jesus is entirely wrapped up in the covenantal history of Israel.

We talk about the utmost importance of the blood of Jesus shed for us on the cross. Here Jesus is attesting to the blood shed since the time of Cain and Abel, through to the prophets, who were slain for bearing witness to the truth to a generation that didn't want to hear it. Can you not see how untenable it is to mythologize and allegorize the very blood that Christ came to remove from our heads with his own?

It's Jesus or the World. You can't believe both. You must choose.

Claiming to speak as an authority for "the scientific method" is meaningless. Everyone, on all sides of a debate, always claims to have the science on their side. You don't really understand the institution of science until you understand how deeply one's metaphysical worldview inserts confirmation bias into the research. We tend to find what we're looking for, just as many professing believers tend to compromise their beliefs in precisely those areas that will reduce social tension and increase social status. The world will give you a pat on the head if you agree to be a "reasonable Christian" and throw your Bible in the garbage bin.

The belief in Evolution is part of an ancient philosophical tradition going back thousands of years, and resurrected in the Enlightenment era. The belief in Evolution today is little more than a repackaged Epicureanism and is completely opposed to the cosmogony and earth history that the prophets, the apostles, and the Son of God attested to.

Well, let's deal with those in turn.

1. all believers would assert that their God was responsible for Creation. Fine. So so I. I assert that the creation narrative in early Genesis clearly shows who was responsible for creation. It was God who ordained the what, when and how, and He approved it as good. I assume we agree on that?

2. I agree it is untenable to allegorise the real sacrifice of Jesus Christ, God's only begotten Son, who freely gave His life to propitiate the sins of those who believe on Him. I assume we agree on that?

3. I choose Jesus, not the world. I assume we agree on that?

4. I'm not sure I follow your logic here. It seems to be a caricature of what I was arguing. I am not worshipping science. I am saying that the scientific method is a framework through which we understand natural phenomena (for example, the age of the natural world, the fossil record, and how life has adapted to survive or optimise survival in sometimes-adverse environments). Science has eplanatory power of the how, not of the why. If your metaphysics is getting in the way of your science, you're getting at least one of them wrong.

5. I think this is the crux of the issue. You appear to be arguing that a literalist interpretation of the creation accounts shows faith in God, and that anything else is opposed to this. Well, here we disagree. I don't believe that one's view on creation is a salvific issue, any more than whether the flood was global, or whether you tithe, or whether you baptise by full immersion or as an infant. I believe the important issue for salvation is simple: that you accept Christ's atoning sacrifice for your sin.
 
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Halbhh

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All believers would assert that their god is responsible for creation. The Israelites below Mount Sinai claimed the golden calf was their true god and marveled and rejoiced at it. The identity of the God of the Bible is known from the Bible, particularly His covenantal history with His people. The identity of Jesus is entirely wrapped up in the covenantal history of Israel.

Woe to you! For you build the tombs of the prophets whom your fathers killed. So you are witnesses and you consent to the deeds of your fathers, for they killed them, and you build their tombs. Therefore also the Wisdom of God said, ‘I will send them prophets and apostles, some of whom they will kill and persecute,’ so that the blood of all the prophets, shed from the foundation of the world, may be charged against this generation, from the blood of Abel to the blood of Zechariah, who perished between the altar and the sanctuary. Yes, I tell you, it will be required of this generation. Woe to you lawyers! For you have taken away the key of knowledge. You did not enter yourselves, and you hindered those who were entering.”
- Luke 11:47-52

We talk about the utmost importance of the blood of Jesus shed for us on the cross. Here Jesus is attesting to the blood shed since the time of Cain and Abel, through to the prophets, who were slain for bearing witness to the truth to a generation that didn't want to hear it. Can you not see how untenable it is to mythologize and allegorize the very blood that Christ came to remove from our heads with his own?

And he said to them, “O foolish ones, and slow of heart to believe all that the prophets have spoken! Was it not necessary that the Christ should suffer these things and enter into his glory?” And beginning with Moses and all the Prophets, he interpreted to them in all the Scriptures the things concerning himself.
- Luke 24:25-27


It's Jesus or the World. You can't believe both. You must choose.


For if you believed Moses, you would believe me; for he wrote of me. But if you do not believe his writings, how will you believe my words? - John 5:46-47



Claiming to speak as an authority for "the scientific method" is meaningless. Everyone, on all sides of a debate, always claims to have the science on their side. You don't really understand the institution of science until you understand how deeply one's metaphysical worldview inserts confirmation bias into the research. We tend to find what we're looking for, just as many professing believers tend to compromise their beliefs in precisely those areas that will reduce social tension and increase social status. The world will give you a pat on the head if you agree to be a "reasonable Christian" and throw your Bible in the garbage bin.

The belief in Evolution is part of an ancient philosophical tradition going back thousands of years, and resurrected in the Enlightenment era. The belief in Evolution today is little more than a repackaged Epicureanism and is completely opposed to the cosmogony and earth history that the prophets, the apostles, and the Son of God attested to.

We know that only believers in Christ Jesus are believing in the key thing (the real ultimate thing) in the right way.

And we know (all of us) that nothing else saves.

So, it's not by our knowledge, and of course certainly not by how perfectly we interpreted things in the Old Testament....

It's not how old or how well read we are. It's not whether we have a pastor that gets things right mostly, or more or less....

None of those save.

Faith in Christ Jesus, alone, saves.

And that's very Good News.

Because you and I would fall short, on our own.

We could make mistakes here or there, about something. But God's amazing Grace is He made a way for us to be saved even though we don't know all things nor live a perfect life all the way through, but need forgiveness, which He freely gives to those that repent and turn to Christ in faith!
 
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lifepsyop

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I like the intent of the OP, bit it just doesn't address physical reality which confirms things like an ancient earth.

And until such a position can, I just can't buy into it.

Such conclusions in geology are no more based on confirmation bias than conclusions such as grass being green or the sun being hot.

As the poster above said, God has revealed his covenantal history to us freely, and you either believe it or you don't. You can dress that situation up in as much scientific pretension as you want. At the end of the day it is you deciding what to put your faith in.
 
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lifepsyop

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We know that only believers in Christ Jesus are believing in the key thing (the real ultimate thing) in the right way.

And we know (all of us) that nothing else saves.

So, it's not by our knowledge, and of course certainly not by how perfectly we interpreted things in the Old Testament....

It's not how old or how well read we are. It's not whether we have a pastor that gets things right mostly, or more or less....

None of those save.

Faith in Christ Jesus, alone, saves.

And that's very Good News.

Because you and I would fall short, on our own.

We could make mistakes here or there, about something. But God's amazing Grace is He made a way for us to be saved even though we don't know all things nor live a perfect life all the way through, but need forgiveness, which He freely gives to those that repent and turn to Christ in faith!

I agree with you, BUT there is a remaining question of whether or not someone truly has faith in Christ Jesus if they knowingly hear his words and ignore them or deny them. Are we seeking after and submitting to His word, or is there a hidden spirit of rebellion in us?

It's one thing to proclaim the name of Jesus, it's quite another to fully surrender your heart to him.
"...Because this people draw near with their mouth and honor me with their lips, while their hearts are far from me..." - Isaiah 29:13


Jesus said to him, “If you would be perfect, go, sell what you possess and give to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven; and come, follow me.” - Matthew 19:21

The rich young man seemingly had a heart for God (adhering to the Commandments) but he was holding earthly possessions back for himself. Somewhere in his heart he was separating from the Kingdom of God, by building a little kingdom for himself here on earth.

What does it say when we deny most of God's revealed history in favor for our own "enlightened" view of history which completely wipes away the covenantal and salvific foundation of Christ. Is this not rebellion?

Is our modern world's vision of itself... it's self-aggrandizing "Enlightenment", the vision of our generation as one of bold men of science and progress who far excelled beyond our ignorant ancestors. Is it an earthly "treasure" that we refuse to give up in order to fully follow the way of truth? Would it just be too embarrassing to admit how wrong we were about everything? That's pride. That's our earthly kingdom we want to protect. We are just way too proud of our civilization and our way of life to give it up.

As I mentioned in the OP, I think this is why those professing believers who deny Biblical history, also scoff and mock future prophecy and the prophesied actual return of Jesus, coming on the clouds of heaven.

The holy prophecy (outlined in the Book of Revelation, as well as the old prophets, the apostles, and Jesus) means our kingdom, our centuries of science and technology and progress, is nothing but ashes prepared to be burned away by the Lord. People don't like that because it obviously threatens our kingdom, just as acknowledging the truth of the flood of Noah, reveals just how much of a vapor our kingdom on earth really is...



The apostle Peter provides great clarity on this issue. The Truth of Christ is rooted in God's revealed history. (Jesus said the same thing, e.g. John 5:46)

Wherefore I will not be negligent to put you always in remembrance of these things, though ye know them, and be established in the present truth....
...For we have not followed cunningly devised fables
, when we made known unto you the power and coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, but were eyewitnesses of his majesty.
...We have also a more sure word of prophecy; whereunto ye do well that ye take heed, as unto a light that shineth in a dark place, until the day dawn, and the day star arise in your hearts:
...For the prophecy came not in old time by the will of man: but holy men of God spake as they were moved by the Holy Ghost.


2 Peter 1:12,16,19,21

But there were false prophets also among the people, even as there shall be false teachers among you, who privily shall bring in damnable heresies, even denying the Lord that bought them, and bring upon themselves swift destruction.

And many shall follow their pernicious ways; by reason of whom the way of truth shall be evil spoken of. And through covetousness shall they with feigned words make merchandise of you: whose judgment now of a long time lingereth not, and their damnation slumbereth not.

For if God spared not the angels that sinned, but cast them down to hell, and delivered them into chains of darkness, to be reserved unto judgment; And spared not the old world, but saved Noah the eighth person, a preacher of righteousness, bringing in the flood upon the world of the ungodly; And turning the cities of Sodom and Gomorrha into ashes condemned them with an overthrow, making them an ensample unto those that after should live ungodly;


2 Peter 2:1-6

In the next chapter, Peter then goes on to warn of the scoffers and mockers that will arise denying the creation, the flood, and return of Christ. (already quoted in the OP)
 
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Derek1234

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Would it just be too embarrassing to admit how wrong we were about everything? That's pride. That's our earthly kingdom we want to protect. We are just way too proud of our civilization and our way of life to give it up. As I mentioned in the OP said:
Well there you go again. You're asking legitimate questions, but without acknowledging that you may be wrong in your answers. The Bible supports your view of creation, but it also supports others' views. That's why it's important we approach the Word with sincerity and humility.

I have no idea where your second quoted paragraph comes from. What Bibical history are they denying?
 
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lifepsyop

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Well there you go again. You're asking legitimate questions, but without acknowledging that you may be wrong in your answers. The Bible supports your view of creation, but it also supports others' views. That's why it's important we approach the Word with sincerity and humility.

I have no idea where your second quoted paragraph comes from. What Bibical history are they denying?

For one example, many professing believers deny the covenant God made with Noah in Genesis 9. Because they don't believe in the worldwide Flood even after Peter's direct warning of the scoffing and mocking spirit that will show up to deny it.

But we can move forward to the time of Moses and find the same denial. Virtually all of mainstream "science" is in one accord that the Biblical Exodus is total fiction, and that the Israelite people were not even in the Egyptian region at the time. We can say the same about the Conquest period where the Bible accounts Joshua leading Israel into Canaan to take the land. According to mainstream archeology, this is all complete fiction.

The same professing believers who discard Genesis, also necessarily discard these for the same reason. "Science says..."

So this brings us back to the choice you have to make. You can either believe in the covenantal history of the Bible (like Jesus and the apostles clearly did), or you can believe the wisdom of the world which confidently claims that most of the Bible has been proven to be an invented fable.
 
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BeyondET

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2 Peter 2:1-6

In the next chapter, Peter then goes on to warn of the scoffers and mockers that will arise denying the creation, the flood, and return of Christ. (already quoted in the OP)[/QUOTE]

i read the verses i didn't see where Peter directly warns of people denying things in the future? did i miss something in the verses.
 
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Halbhh

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I've not seen anyone saying they are a believer and also claiming God didn't make that promise to never flood the world again. Is there an instance of someone claiming that you can point to?
For one example, many professing believers deny the covenant God made with Noah in Genesis 9.
 
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