20 major reasons to reject the Premillennial doctrine

sovereigngrace · May 10, 2021

Timtofly said:
Still only your opinion. Many people on earth have a different opinion than yours, and many are not even pre-mill. If the point being made has no Biblical support, it is also bereft of Biblical support. Exposing one's opinion is not really that hard to point out. Just type the words, "that is your opinion". Seems to work for a lot of online posters.

Scripture is very clear: the coming of the Lord is climactic! Premil contradicts that.

Timtofly · May 11, 2021

sovereigngrace said:
Scripture is very clear: the coming of the Lord is climactic! Premil contradicts that.

Bringing an end to sin is climactic for this pre-mill. Some amill posters here want to foist sin into the Millennium after it has been eradicated climactically.

Is the death of sin, the messy, worse tribulation period in history? Or do you claim the birth of the Millennium is the messy, worse tribulation in history? If the birth is not the issue, then why scrap the Millennium?

sovereigngrace · May 11, 2021

Timtofly said:
Bringing an end to sin is climactic for this pre-mill. Some amill posters here want to foist sin into the Millennium after it has been eradicated climactically.

Is the death of sin, the messy, worse tribulation period in history? Or do you claim the birth of the Millennium is the messy, worse tribulation in history? If the birth is not the issue, then why scrap the Millennium?

You somehow turn billions of millennial rebels (Gog and Magog) who turn against Christ into sinless creatures. The sacred text forbids such an impossibility.

Spiritual Jew · May 11, 2021

Timtofly said:
Bringing an end to sin is climactic for this pre-mill. Some amill posters here want to foist sin into the Millennium after it has been eradicated climactically.

Most premils believe that Zechariah 14 describes the time of "the Millennium". Do you agree with them on that or not?

Zechariah 14:16-19 describes people being punished for not going up to Jerusalem to celebrate the feast of tabernacles. So, if you see that passage as occurring during "the Millennium" then I don't see how you can think that no sin would occur during that time.

And there's the time after "the Millennium" where people are rebelling in numbers "as the sand of the sea" but you somehow think it's not sin for them to rebel while wanting to destroy "the camp of the saints". Your understanding of sin is terribly flawed.

Timtofly · May 11, 2021

sovereigngrace said:
You somehow turn billions of millennial rebels (Gog and Magog) who turn against Christ into sinless creatures. The sacred text forbids such an impossibility.

No they are sinless who turn into followers of Satan. They turn themselves into reprobates. I do not turn any one into anything.

Timtofly · May 11, 2021

Spiritual Jew said:
Most premils believe that Zechariah 14 describes the time of "the Millennium". Do you agree with them on that or not?

Zechariah 14:16-19 describes people being punished for not going up to Jerusalem to celebrate the feast of tabernacles. So, if you see that passage as occurring during "the Millennium" then I don't see how you can think that no sin would occur during that time.

And there's the time after "the Millennium" where people are rebelling in numbers "as the sand of the sea" but you somehow think it's not sin for them to rebel while wanting to destroy "the camp of the saints". Your understanding of sin is terribly flawed.

A one time event does turn perfect people into those God consumes with fire. That is different than being a sinner and constantly in need of salvation. There was no salvation for those consumed with fire. Do you think Adam repented of his sin? Do you have a verse that proves your point?

This is what Paul claims: Romans 5:12-14

"Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned:

(For until the law sin was in the world: but sin is not imputed when there is no law. Nevertheless death reigned from Adam to Moses, even over them that had not sinned after the similitude of Adam's transgression, who is the figure of him that was to come.)"

What Adam's descendants known as sinners were, was different from Adam's disobedience, transgression of a specific Law.

When sin is eradicated, there is still the law defined in ruling with Christ. The Millennium is not without laws. What it is without is the sin nature and sin caused by Adam's disobedience. Will it be called sin when a law is broken? Not like we understand sin. Yes, if a Nation does not obey the law, there will be consequences. But not like Adam's disobedience, that brought sin into the world. There will still be a death penalty for disobedience. It will be like it was for Adam and Eve, before they disobeyed the one law God gave Adam. They died the minute Adam disobeyed. God let them live in dead corruptible bodies. In the Millennium disobedience will be immediate removal from life to Death. No prison, no rehab. To die will be considered a curse. A nation, like in Zechariah, will pay as a whole group if they refuse to follow the law. The point is no one will be compelled to break the law. There will be no reward. Today in sin, we are rewarded for bad behavior, at least that is the short term success of being a sinner in current sin conditions.

You explain what sin eradicated means then. Are nations punished for not bringing a sacrifice to Jerusalem since the Cross? Will there be sin in the NHNE where Nations do not bring an offering to Jerusalem?

sovereigngrace · May 12, 2021

Timtofly said:
No they are sinless who turn into followers of Satan. They turn themselves into reprobates. I do not turn any one into anything.

So billions lose their salvation during your supposed future millennium?

sovereigngrace · May 12, 2021

Timtofly said:
A one time event does turn perfect people into those God consumes with fire. That is different than being a sinner and constantly in need of salvation. There was no salvation for those consumed with fire. Do you think Adam repented of his sin? Do you have a verse that proves your point?

This is what Paul claims: Romans 5:12-14

"Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned:

(For until the law sin was in the world: but sin is not imputed when there is no law. Nevertheless death reigned from Adam to Moses, even over them that had not sinned after the similitude of Adam's transgression, who is the figure of him that was to come.)"

What Adam's descendants known as sinners were, was different from Adam's disobedience, transgression of a specific Law.

When sin is eradicated, there is still the law defined in ruling with Christ. The Millennium is not without laws. What it is without is the sin nature and sin caused by Adam's disobedience. Will it be called sin when a law is broken? Not like we understand sin. Yes, if a Nation does not obey the law, there will be consequences. But not like Adam's disobedience, that brought sin into the world. There will still be a death penalty for disobedience. It will be like it was for Adam and Eve, before they disobeyed the one law God gave Adam. They died the minute Adam disobeyed. God let them live in dead corruptible bodies. In the Millennium disobedience will be immediate removal from life to Death. No prison, no rehab. To die will be considered a curse. A nation, like in Zechariah, will pay as a whole group if they refuse to follow the law. The point is no one will be compelled to break the law. There will be no reward. Today in sin, we are rewarded for bad behavior, at least that is the short term success of being a sinner in current sin conditions.

You explain what sin eradicated means then. Are nations punished for not bringing a sacrifice to Jerusalem since the Cross? Will there be sin in the NHNE where Nations do not bring an offering to Jerusalem?

You totally avoided Spiritual Jew. You diverted off on another rabbit chase.

Timtofly · May 12, 2021

sovereigngrace said:
So billions lose their salvation during your supposed future millennium?

They lose their life and are sent to the Lake of Fire. Do you lose your salvation every time you have a bad thought? Are you consumed by fire and sent to the Lake of Fire every time you have a bad thought? Is having a bad thought sin? Should God consume by fire before an action is taken on a bad thought to prevent the harm that thought would have done?

Timtofly · May 12, 2021

sovereigngrace said:
You totally avoided Spiritual Jew. You diverted off on another rabbit chase.

No that is interpreting Scripture with Scripture. The Millennium is going back to the point sin is no longer in the world. When Adam and Eve were in the Garden, sin was not in the world. God's Word shows us what it is like without sin.

sovereigngrace · May 12, 2021

Timtofly said:
They lose their life and are sent to the Lake of Fire. Do you lose your salvation every time you have a bad thought? Are you consumed by fire and sent to the Lake of Fire every time you have a bad thought? Is having a bad thought sin? Should God consume by fire before an action is taken on a bad thought to prevent the harm that thought would have done?

Who are these billions of wicked mortals that overrun your future millennium? Where do they come from? Who are the saints that they surround at the end? Where do they come from? How can they possibly be considered as sinless when they betray Christ and follow their master Satan? You have skipped around these simple questions for long enough.

sovereigngrace · May 12, 2021

Timtofly said:
No that is interpreting Scripture with Scripture. The Millennium is going back to the point sin is no longer in the world. When Adam and Eve were in the Garden, sin was not in the world. God's Word shows us what it is like without sin.

Your so-called future millennium is overrun by sin and sinners, and therefore death and decay.

Timtofly · May 12, 2021

sovereigngrace said:
Who are these billions of wicked mortals that overrun your future millennium? Where do they come from? Who are the saints that they surround at the end? Where do they come from? How can they possibly be considered as sinless when they betray Christ and follow their master Satan? You have skipped around these simple questions for long enough.

I keep saying they are the 40th generation of billions of humans after almost 1000 years. You totally ignore my answer. The simple answer is time and many generations, without sin and Satan to disrupt exponential population growth.

Timtofly · May 12, 2021

sovereigngrace said:
Your so-called future millennium is overrun by sin and sinners, and therefore death and decay.

This so called future is the Day of the Lord, you keep mocking. God cleans up the earth with fire, and removes sin and Satan. Not sure why you ignore the facts of Revelation and 2 Peter. The Second Coming is a climactic event that eradicated sin and Adam's flesh and blood. All is changed and Christ reigns on earth for 1000 years, as outlined in Revelation 20.

sovereigngrace · May 12, 2021

Timtofly said:
I keep saying they are the 40th generation of billions of humans after almost 1000 years. You totally ignore my answer. The simple answer is time and many generations, without sin and Satan to disrupt exponential population growth.

Premil is forcing a square peg into a round hole. Billion of millennial inhabitants en-masse reject Christ and follow Satan. If that is not sin what is? You are clearly living in denial.

Timtofly · May 13, 2021

sovereigngrace said:
Premil is forcing a square peg into a round hole. Billion of millennial inhabitants en-masse reject Christ and follow Satan. If that is not sin what is? You are clearly living in denial.

I am living in the time right before the 1000 years as God Word mentions. Amil live in denial of the Millennium reign. They deny this reign is after sin is eradicated. You have no answer about these billions of future humans. There are not enough people for your current Satan loosed for a little season. Only in a sin free world, can a population reach that amount.

sovereigngrace · May 13, 2021

Timtofly said:
I am living in the time right before the 1000 years as God Word mentions. Amil live in denial of the Millennium reign. They deny this reign is after sin is eradicated. You have no answer about these billions of future humans. There are not enough people for your current Satan loosed for a little season. Only in a sin free world, can a population reach that amount.

This is the final battle before the Lord's return. This is where man is fast hasting.

You are clearly living in denial making these billion of millennial inhabitants who reject Christ and follow Satan as sinless. This is totally absurd and nonsensical. It is reasons like this why many are rejecting Premil today.

Timtofly · May 14, 2021

sovereigngrace said:
This is the final battle before the Lord's return. This is where man is fast hasting.

You are clearly living in denial making these billion of millennial inhabitants who reject Christ and follow Satan as sinless. This is totally absurd and nonsensical. It is reasons like this why many are rejecting Premil today.

They were without sin seconds before Satan was released from the pit. It was Satan that brought this rebellion of this march. What part of Satan decieving these billions is hard to understand? They did not come up with the idea, until after Satan talked them into it.

"When the thousand years are over, the Adversary will be set free from his prison and will go out to deceive the nations in the four quarters of the earth, Gog and Magog, to gather them for the battle."

They would never have gathered together on their own. This is the final march after the 1000 year reign of Christ on earth. Show me the verse in Revelation 20 where Christ comes down from heaven. Here is what comes down from heaven:

"But fire came down from heaven and consumed them."

There was no battle, because they never had a chance to sin and do battle. Fire consumed them before the battle began. You have them on intent, only. God prevented any battle, by sending fire down from heaven. What prophetic battle is in the OT, that was not a battle, but was declared over before it started by fire from heaven?

sovereigngrace · May 14, 2021

Timtofly said:
They were without sin seconds before Satan was released from the pit. It was Satan that brought this rebellion of this march. What part of Satan decieving these billions is hard to understand? They did not come up with the idea, until after Satan talked them into it.

"When the thousand years are over, the Adversary will be set free from his prison and will go out to deceive the nations in the four quarters of the earth, Gog and Magog, to gather them for the battle."

They would never have gathered together on their own. This is the final march after the 1000 year reign of Christ on earth. Show me the verse in Revelation 20 where Christ comes down from heaven. Here is what comes down from heaven:

"But fire came down from heaven and consumed them."

There was no battle, because they never had a chance to sin and do battle. Fire consumed them before the battle began. You have them on intent, only. God prevented any battle, by sending fire down from heaven. What prophetic battle is in the OT, that was not a battle, but was declared over before it started by fire from heaven?

Where does it say "they were without sin seconds before Satan was released from the pit"? You are foisting that on the sacred text.

These must be the most deluded generation in history. This is the biggest betrayal of Christ ever. Billions feigning allegiance to Jesus, bringing false worship to Him for a thousand years and then running en-masse to Satan as soon as he pops his head up.

The absence of Satan does not equate with an end of sin. We know if Satan dropped dead today sin continues. Your whole paradigm doesn't make sense.

Timtofly · May 14, 2021

sovereigngrace said:
Where does it say "they were without sin seconds before Satan was released from the pit"? You are foisting that on the sacred text.

These must be the most deluded generation in history. This is the biggest betrayal of Christ ever. Billions feigning allegiance to Jesus, bringing false worship to Him for a thousand years and then running en-masse to Satan as soon as he pops his head up.

The absence of Satan does not equate with an end of sin. We know if Satan dropped dead today sin continues. Your whole paradigm doesn't make sense.

Now who is foisting ethics onto people and into God's Word? Sin was eradicated before Satan was placed in the pit. This alledged sin is because they were decieved. They were not decieved, nor carrying out sinful acts, 5 seconds before Satan was released. You are making all that up yourself. God's Word claims sin was eradicated. You claim sin is eradicated at the Second Coming. Then you change God's Word to claim there are more people alive today than the sands of the sea, unable to be counted. You claim Satan is not decieving the nations now. You do not know when he will start. You claim there is no sin now, but sin is very much rampant, even though you claim Satan is not even decieving the Nations now, that cannot be counted, even though most nations currently know how many people they have. In fact they are trying to decrease population, not increase it. No nations have plans to march your billions of unregenerates, and there may even be believers in such armies, who will be consumed by fire. Do their souls go to heaven, or did they loose that privilege because the government forced them to serve in the military?

It is not my paradigm. It is God's Word, Revelation 20. Comes right after Revelation 19. No human opinion necessary to mix up and change around the words that John wrote down for us to read.

20 major reasons to reject the Premillennial doctrine

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