Born from above

SANTOSO

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For we who desire to be under grace, we hear by faith.

For it is written that Abraham had two sons, one by a slave woman and one by a free woman. -Galatians 4:22
But the son of the slave was born according to the flesh, while the son of the free woman was born through promise. -Galatians 4:23

This is what we have heard INTERPRETED:

Now this may be interpreted allegorically:
these women are two covenants. One is from Mount Sinai, bearing children for slavery; she is Hagar. -Galatians 4:24

Now Hagar is Mount Sinai in Arabia; she corresponds to the present Jerusalem, for she is in slavery with her children. -Galatians 4:25

But the Jerusalem above is free, and she is our mother. -Galatians 4:26

Likewise, can be interpreted allegorically:

One is from Mount Zion, bearing children for freedom; she is Sarah.
Now Sarah is Mount Zion in Jerusalem; she correspond to the Jerusalem from above,
for she is in freedom with her children.


For it is written, "Rejoice, O barren one who does not bear; break forth and cry aloud, you who are not in labor! For the children of the desolate one will be more than those of the one who has a husband." -Galatians 4:27

The Jerusalem above, rejoice; break forth and cry aloud, for her children are more than those of the one who has a husband.

Now we as brothers to the apostles, like Isaac, we are children of promise.

But just as at that time he who was born according to the flesh persecuted him who was born according to the Spirit, so also it is now. -Galatians 4:29

But what does the Scripture say? "Cast out the slave woman and her son, for the son of the slave woman shall not inherit with the son of the free woman." -Galatians 4:30

So when the fullness time have come, the children of the free woman to inherit the kingdom prepared from the foundation of the world ; the slave woman and her children will be casted out.

As children of free woman, let us thank God for the covenant that He made with Abraham and Sarah, that we can be children of the promise; children born from above.
 
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we are both an Adam and a Christ ... the two sons in picture portray our duality of mind ... as in two tables we eat from (a double portion) and it is the elder of these two which serves the younger ...

Christ Jesus made these two one again in himself by way of a cross picked up ...
 
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2BeholdHisGlory

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we are both an Adam and a Christ ... the two sons in picture portray our duality of mind ... as in two tables we eat from (a double portion) and it is the elder of these two which serves the younger ...

Christ Jesus made these two one again in himself by way of a cross picked up ...

Isn't our old man crucified with Christ and any such duality of mind more like us being double minded?

For example in James 1:8
 
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Gregory Thompson

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Isn't our old man crucified with Christ and any such duality of mind more like us being double minded?

For example in James 1:8
We are crucified with Christ, but we do not take off corruptibility and put on incorruptibility until later (1 Corinthians 15:53)
 
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2BeholdHisGlory

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We are crucified with Christ, but we do not take off corruptibility and put on incorruptibility until later (1 Corinthians 15:53)

So the "duality of mind" or being "double minded" is acceptable doctrine because we can't take off a corruptible mind? And therefore (in the context of the duality mind) is equal to having a corrupt mind (versus a sound mind) and is normal now in Jesus Christ?

Double minded are spoken of here James 1:8 & James 4:8

Corrupt minds are spoken of here 1 Timothy 6:5 & 2 Timothy 3:8

The latter shows corrupt mind is reprobate concerning the faith.

Edit: typo
 
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Gregory Thompson

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So the "duality of mind" or being "double minded" is acceptable doctrine because we can't take off a corruptible mind? And therefore (in the context of the duality mind) is equal to having a corrupt mind (versus a sound mind) and is normal now in Jesus Christ?

Double minded are spoken of here James 1:8 & James 4:8

Corrupt minds are spoken of here 1 Timothy 6:5 & 2 Timothy 3:8

The latter shows corrupt mind is reprobate concerning the faith.

Edit: typo
Scripture appears to illustrate that your understanding of double minded is not based on scripture.
 
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2BeholdHisGlory

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Scripture appears to illustrate that your understanding of double minded is not based on scripture.


Michael, I was questioning someone's use of DUALITY of mind in post #3 and then you came in talking about corruptible and incorruptible in the context of MINDS and DUALITY (which I was questioning) as far as double mindedness the scripture speaks of.

You are the one who brought in the corruptible and incorruptible into the CONTEXT of "the MIND". I looked up CORRUPT (as it pertains to the mind) as you brough it in and a corrupt mind is that which is a REPROBATE MIND.

Maybe you could explain how DUALITY of mind in Jesus Christ is not reprobate?

Duality was the word used (as it pertained to the mind). That was the context, and I can only think of one duality of mind in that context (and thats double mindedness). Scripture speaks of this.

You came into this and brought into that context, that "this corruptible needs to put on incorruptible" in post #4. You seem to feel that this verse pertains to the mind. I gave you the benefit of the doubt and looked up corruption/ mind and "corrupt mind"( since you seem to feel its applicable) and maybe even acceptable in Christ.

So why not rather explain yourself since I was asking a question specifically in "the duality of mind" while you tagged my post ( did not tag you) and introduced how "this corruptible" somehow play in (while providing no evidence of this, and then come back in and state "Scripture appears to illustrate that your understanding of double minded is not based on scripture"

My question is not even on doublemindedness in scripture it was on DUALITY of mind in the post I quoted, I was looking FOR scriptural evidence as it pertained to that, only to receive more unscriptural ideas as it pertains to the mind.

Feel free to explain how scripture will make sense of anything you just posted.
 
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Michael, I was questioning someone's use of DUALITY of mind in post #3 and then you came in talking about corruptible and incorruptible in the context of MINDS and DUALITY (which I was questioning) as far as double mindedness the scripture speaks of.

You are the one who brought in the corruptible and incorruptible into the CONTEXT of "the MIND". I looked up CORRUPT (as it pertains to the mind) as you brough it in and a corrupt mind is that which is a REPROBATE MIND.

Maybe you could explain how DUALITY of mind in Jesus Christ is not reprobate?

Duality was the word used (as it pertained to the mind). That was the context, and I can only think of one duality of mind in that context (and thats double mindedness). Scripture speaks of this.

You came into this and brought into that context, that "this corruptible needs to put on incorruptible" in post #4. You seem to feel that this verse pertains to the mind. I gave you the benefit of the doubt and looked up corruption/ mind and "corrupt mind"( since you seem to feel its applicable) and maybe even acceptable in Christ.

So why not rather explain yourself since I was asking a question specifically in "the duality of mind" while you tagged my post ( did not tag you) and introduced how "this corruptible" somehow play in (while providing no evidence of this, and then come back in and state "Scripture appears to illustrate that your understanding of double minded is not based on scripture"

My question is not even on doublemindedness in scripture it was on DUALITY of mind in the post I quoted, I was looking FOR scriptural evidence as it pertained to that, only to receive more unscriptural ideas as it pertains to the mind.

Feel free to explain how scripture will make sense of anything you just posted.

to be double minded is to have a duality of mind ....
 
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2BeholdHisGlory

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to be double minded is to have a duality of mind ....

Thats what I figured you were saying, showing two minds, or double minded there so thanks for clarifying. Whenever I see the Lord adress someone twice "Martha, Martha, or "Saul Saul" or them saying "Lord Lord" reminds me of the same.
 
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Thats what I figured you were saying, showing two minds, or double minded there so thanks for clarifying. Whenever I see the Lord adress someone twice "Martha, Martha, or "Saul Saul" or them saying "Lord Lord" reminds me of the same.

two minds as in two perceptions/sons of Adam ....
 
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two minds as in two perceptions/sons of Adam ....

Do you quote scripture at all?

Which one is that from?

Anyone can perceive something a multitude of ways, why stop at two in the carnal man?
 
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Do you quote scripture at all?

Which one is that from?

Anyone can perceive something a multitude of ways, why stop at two in the carnal man?

the division can be seen in the very first verse in Genesis .... two come out and one returns ...

i could quote the whole book referencing these two Christ made one again ....
 
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Nevermind I have been in these kind of conversations before where the scriptures are the last things to enter in and it just becomes a lot of dancing, and performing arts.

In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth.

two realms ... the two come in a myriad of forms throughout the book ....
 
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Isaiah 65:17 For, behold, I create new heavens and a new earth: and the former shall not be remembered, nor come into mind.

Theres two more^_^

keep going the list i have found to be exhaustive ..

off the top of my head in no particular order

light and darkness, good and evil, man and women, naked and not ashamed and naked and ashamed, Tree of life and tree of knowledge, Cain and Abel, Hagar and Sarah Ishmael and Isaac, twelve stones in the river and twelve stones in the land, Jacob and Esau, forty days and forty nights and the list goes on and on and on

the two witnesses wielding one sword ...
 
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Gregory Thompson

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Michael, I was questioning someone's use of DUALITY of mind in post #3 and then you came in talking about corruptible and incorruptible in the context of MINDS and DUALITY (which I was questioning) as far as double mindedness the scripture speaks of.

You are the one who brought in the corruptible and incorruptible into the CONTEXT of "the MIND". I looked up CORRUPT (as it pertains to the mind) as you brough it in and a corrupt mind is that which is a REPROBATE MIND.

Maybe you could explain how DUALITY of mind in Jesus Christ is not reprobate?

Duality was the word used (as it pertained to the mind). That was the context, and I can only think of one duality of mind in that context (and thats double mindedness). Scripture speaks of this.

You came into this and brought into that context, that "this corruptible needs to put on incorruptible" in post #4. You seem to feel that this verse pertains to the mind. I gave you the benefit of the doubt and looked up corruption/ mind and "corrupt mind"( since you seem to feel its applicable) and maybe even acceptable in Christ.

So why not rather explain yourself since I was asking a question specifically in "the duality of mind" while you tagged my post ( did not tag you) and introduced how "this corruptible" somehow play in (while providing no evidence of this, and then come back in and state "Scripture appears to illustrate that your understanding of double minded is not based on scripture"

My question is not even on doublemindedness in scripture it was on DUALITY of mind in the post I quoted, I was looking FOR scriptural evidence as it pertained to that, only to receive more unscriptural ideas as it pertains to the mind.

Feel free to explain how scripture will make sense of anything you just posted.
The scriptures say "but we have the mind of Christ"

Our body which is not us (According to Romans 7) also has a brain in it, and is steeped in sin.

So it's not "double mindedness" so long as you don't identify with the sin that floats through the greymatter.

It becomes doublemindedness when the body or tent becomes your identity, because the two cannot be one.

I'm just seeing nuance here, doublemindedness is harmful to the individual, I'd agree with that.

We are instructed on the instability that "doublemindedness" causes because we have not yet put on incorruptibility, and won't until the resurrection.
 
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2BeholdHisGlory

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The scriptures say "but we have the mind of Christ"

Our body which is not us (According to Romans 7) also has a brain in it, and is steeped in sin.

So it's not "double mindedness" so long as you don't identify with the sin that floats through the greymatter.

It becomes doublemindedness when the body or tent becomes your identity, because the two cannot be one.

I'm just seeing nuance here, doublemindedness is harmful to the individual, I'd agree with that.

We are instructed on the instability that "doublemindedness" causes because we have not yet put on incorruptibility, and won't until the resurrection.

Agreed that a reprobate mind is not the sound mind we have been given in Christ, which pertains to the Spirit (and of God) verses the natural man (in his own spirit) which and has nothing to do with the actual "grey brain matter" of anyone because of the fact we all retain our "grey brain matter" (as you refer to it) as long as we walk in the flesh whether we are believer in Christ or not. That part is corruptible (as part of the actual body/outer man that deteriorates and eventually perishes). But it is not speaking of that as corruptible in that sense of things (or as "in matter" itself) but of the spiritual nature of such a one (whether it is of the natural man's spirit on a spiritual level or the spiritual man who has the mind of Christ on that same level). Corrupting oneself in a spiritual sense of corruptedness (after evil that way) but not "matter itself" (which is not evil in and of itself). I am also of the understanding that some of the larger churches regard that particular belief (that matter is evil) as an heretical belief.
 
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Gregory Thompson

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Agreed that a reprobate mind is not the sound mind we have been given in Christ, which pertains to the Spirit (and of God) verses the natural man (in his own spirit) which and has nothing to do with the actual "grey brain matter" of anyone because of the fact we all retain our "grey brain matter" (as you refer to it) as long as we walk in the flesh whether we are believer in Christ or not. That part is corruptible (as part of the actual body/outer man that deteriorates and eventually perishes). But it is not speaking of that as corruptible in that sense of things (or as "in matter" itself) but of the spiritual nature of such a one (whether it is of the natural man's spirit on a spiritual level or the spiritual man who has the mind of Christ on that same level). Corrupting oneself in a spiritual sense of corruptedness (after evil that way) but not "matter itself" (which is not evil in and of itself). I am also of the understanding that some of the larger churches regard that particular belief (that matter is evil) as an heretical belief.
I get that we're probably looking at the same thing, but differently.

So we won't meet in the middle.
 
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