No, it was not helpful in furthering your theology at all with me.
Romans11:1I ask, then, hhas God rejected his people? By no means! For iI myself am an Israelite, a descendant of Abraham,1 a member of the tribe of Benjamin. 2 jGod has not rejected his people whom he kforeknew. Do you not know what the Scripture says of Elijah, how he appeals to God against Israel? 3 l“Lord, they have killed your prophets, they have demolished your altars, and I alone am left, and they seek my life.” 4 But what is God’s reply to him? m“I have kept for myself seven thousand men who have not bowed the knee to Baal.” 5 So too at the present time there is na remnant, chosen by grace. 6 oBut if it is by grace, it is no longer on the basis of works; otherwise grace would no longer be grace.
7 What then? pIsrael failed to obtain what it was seeking. The elect obtained it, but the rest qwere hardened, 8 as it is written,
r“God gave them a spirit of stupor,
seyes that would not see
and ears that would not hear,
down to this very day.”
9 And David says,
t“Let their table become a snare and a trap,
a stumbling block and a retribution for them;
10 let their eyes be darkened so that they cannot see,
and bend their backs forever.”
11 So I ask, did they stumble in order that they might fall? By no means! Rather, through their trespass salvation has come to the Gentiles, so as to make Israel jealous. 12 Now if their trespass means riches for the world, and if their failure means riches for the Gentiles, how much more will their full inclusion mean!
13 Now I am speaking to you Gentiles. Inasmuch then as I am an apostle to the Gentiles, I magnify my ministry 14 in order somehow to make my fellow Jews jealous, and thus save some of them. 15 For if
their rejection means the reconciliation of the world, what will their acceptance mean but life from the dead? 16 If the dough offered as firstfruits is holy, so is the whole lump, and if the root is holy, so are
the branches.
17 But if some of the branches were broken off, and you, although a wild olive shoot, were grafted in among the others and now share in the nourishing root of the olive tree, 18 do not be arrogant toward the branches. If you are, remember it is not you who support the root, but the root that supports you. 19 Then you will say, “Branches were broken off so that I might be grafted in.” 20 That is true. They
were broken off because of their unbelief, but you stand fast through faith. So do not become proud, but fear. 21 For if God did not spare the natural branches, neither will he spare you. 22 Note then the
kindness and the severity of God: severity toward those who have fallen, but God’s kindness to you, provided you continue in his kindness. Otherwise you too will be cut off. 23 And even they, if they do not continue in their unbelief, will be grafted in, for God has the power to graft them in again. 24 For if you were cut from what is by nature a wild olive tree, and grafted, contrary to nature, into a cultivated olive tree, how much more will these, the natural branches, be grafted back into their own olive tree.
25Lest you be wise in your own sight, I do not want you to be unaware of this mystery, brothers: a partial hardening has come upon Israel, until the fullness of the Gentiles has come in. 26 And in this way all Israel will be saved, as it is written,
“The Deliverer will come from Zion, he will banish ungodliness from Jacob”;
27 “and this will be my covenant with them when I take away their sins.”
28 As regards the gospel, they are enemies for your sake. But as regards election, they are beloved for the sake of their forefathers. 29 For the gifts and the calling of God are irrevocable. 30 For just as you were at one time disobedient to God but now have received mercy because of their disobedience,
31 so they too have now been disobedient in order that by the mercy shown to you they also may now receive mercy. 32 For God has consigned all to disobedience, that he may have mercy on all.
33 Oh, the depth of the riches and wisdom and knowledge of God! How unsearchable are his judgments and how inscrutable his ways!
34 “For who has known the mind of the Lord, or who has been his counselor?”
35 “Or who has given a gift to him that he might be repaid?”
36 For from him and through him and to him are all things. To him be glory forever. Amen.
What is it in this post that you have provided here do you think addresses anything in the previous posts and scriptures or the post you are quoting from? - Nothing.
Romans 11 does
not support your claims that Gods' ISRAEL in the new covenant are all those born of the flesh of the seed of Abraham that is a contradiction of scripture. Romans 11 actually support my earlier posts and scriptures shared with you already that Gods true ISRAEL in the new covenant are all those who are born in the Spirit to believe and follow Gods' Word. If you read my linked posts you would have seen this.
I see your response to my earlier posts, scriptures and questions asked of you was to simply ignore them and pretend they do not exist. Of course this is your choice and you are free to believe as you wish. I have posted God's Words which are not my words but Gods.
Romans 11 is disagreeing with you and supports what has already been shared with you from Gods' Word as shown
here,
here and
here linked.
Let's look at the scriptures you provide and see if they support your claim which is the same as all those who were arguing with Jesus in John 8:31-44 that Gods' ISRAEL are all those born of the flesh. This teaching we have already shown disagree with the very words of Jesus in John 8:31-44; Paul in Romans 9:6-8; Galatians 3:28-29; Romans 2:28-29 etc etc..
Let's look at your scriptures in Romans 11.
ROMANS 11:1-27
[1], I say then, Has God cast away
his people? God forbid. For I also am an Israelite, of the seed of Abraham, of the tribe of Benjamin.
God has now cast away ISRAEL of the flesh but those who do not believe and follow Gods 'Word are not His people as shown in John 8:31-44 they are the children of the devil
[2],
God has not cast away his people which he foreknew. Know you not what the scripture said of Elias? how he makes intercession to God against Israel saying,
[3], Lord, they have killed your prophets, and dig down your altars; and
I am left alone, and they seek my life.
[4],
But what said the answer of God to him? I have reserved to myself seven thousand men, who have not bowed the knee to the image of Baal.
[5], Even so then at this present time also
there is a remnant according to the election of grace.
Gods people here are defined as not all of ISRAEL but only those who believe and follow Gods' Word - The remnant
[6], And if by grace, then is it no more of works: otherwise grace is no more grace. But if it be of works, then it is no more grace: otherwise work is no more work.
[7],
What then? Israel has not obtained that which he seeks for; but the election has obtained it, and the rest were blinded.
Those who God foreknew (Romans 11:2) they elect (v7) those who believed God's Word. The rest were blinded in their unbelief.
[8], According as it is written,
God has given them the spirit of slumber, eyes that they should not see, and ears that they should not hear; to this day.
[9], And David said, Let their table be made a snare, and a trap, and a stumbling block, and a recompense to them:
[10],
Let their eyes be darkened, that they may not see, and bow down their back always.
[11], I say then, Have they stumbled that they should fall? God forbid: but rather through their fall salvation is come to the Gentiles, for to provoke them to jealousy.
[12], Now if the fall of them be the riches of the world, and the diminishing of them the riches of the Gentiles; how much more their fullness?
[13], For I speak to you Gentiles, inasmuch as I am the apostle of the Gentiles, I magnify my office:
[14], If by any means I may provoke to emulation them which are my flesh, and might save some of them.
[15], For if the casting away of them be the reconciling of the world, what shall the receiving of them be, but life from the dead?
Believing gentiles are now grafted in place of the unbelieving Jews of the flesh...
ROMANS 11:16-27
[16], For if the firstfruit are holy, the lump is also holy: and
if the root is holy, so are the branches.
The root represents Christ...
[17], And if some of the branches were broken off, and
you, being a wild olive tree, were grafted in among them, and with them partake of the root and fatness of the olive tree.
The Jewish and the Gentile believers are the branches grafted onto the root (Christ)...
[18], Boast not against the branches. But if you boast, you bear not the root, but
the root you.
[19], You will say then,
The branches were broken off,
that I might be grafted in.
[20], Well;
because of unbelief they were broken off, and you stand by faith. Be not arrogant, but fear:
Unbelieving JEWS are broken off and believing gentiles are grafted in. God's ISRAEL are all those who BELIEVE and FOLLOW God's WORD... Unbelieving JEWS are cut out...
[21], For
if God spared not the natural branches, take heed lest he also not spare you.
[22], Behold therefore the goodness and severity of God: on them who fell, severity; but toward you, goodness,
if you continue in his goodness: otherwise you also shall be cut off.
[23],
And they also, if they abide not still in unbelief, shall be grafted in: for God is able to graft them in again.
Once again God's ISRAEL is all those who believe and follow God's Word. These scriptures do not support your view they support what has been shared with you already. Those of ISRAEL born of the flesh in unbelief are cut out of Gods' ISRAEL but if they return to believe and follow God's Word God can graft them in again...
[24],
For if you were cut out of the olive tree which is wild by nature, and were grafted contrary to nature into a good olive tree: how much more shall these, who are the natural branches, be grafted into their own olive tree?
[25], For I would not, brethren, that you should be ignorant of this mystery, lest you should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel,
until the fullness of the Gentiles comes in.
[26], And so
all Israel shall be saved: as it is written, There shall come out of Zion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob:
The NEW COVENANT is for both Jews and Greek, bond and free, all those who are in Christ. All in Christ are the seed of Abraham and heirs according to the promise.
[27],
For this is my covenant unto them, when I shall take away their sins.
No more Jew or Greek, bond or free, male or female, if you are in Christ you are ISRAEL...
GALATIANS 3:28-29 [28], THERE IS NEITHER JEW NOR GREEK, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: FOR YOU ALL ONE IN CHRIST JESUS AND IF YOU BE CHRISTS, THEN YOU ARE ABRAHAM'S SEED FOR YOU ARE ALL ONE IN CHRIST JESUS [29], and IF YOU BE CHRISTS, THEN ARE YOU ABRAHAM'S SEED, AND HEIRS ACCORDING TO THE PROMISE.
God's true ISRAEL in the NEW COVENANT are not by name only but all those in Christ. Those of the FLESH (sinful human nature) are not Abrahams seed but those who BELIEVE and FOLLOW God in Christ are God's ISRAEL...
ROMANS 9:6-8 [6], FOR THEY ARE NOT ALL ISRAEL WHICH ARE OF ISRAEL,: [7], NEITHER, BECAUSE THEY ARE THE SEED OF ABRAHAM, ARE THEY ALL CHILDREN: but in Isaac shall thy seed be called <Christ> [8], That is, THEY WHICH ARE THE CHILDREN OF THE FLESH, THESE ARE NOT THE CHILDREN OF GOD: BUT THE CHILDREN OF THE PROMISE <those who believe> ARE COUNTED FOR THE SEED.
God's ISRAEL are all those in CHRIST that have been given a NEW HEART according to the NEW COVENANT promise...
ROMANS 2:28-29 [28], FOR HE IS NOT A JEW WHICH IS ONE OUTWARDLY; NEITHER IS THAT CIRCUMCISION, WHICH IS OUTWARDS IN THE FLESH: [29], BUT HE IS A JEW WHICH IS ONE INWARDLY; and CIRCUMCISION IS OF THE HEART, IN THE SPIRIT, AND NOT IN THE LETTER; whose praise is not of men, but of God.
In the NEW COVENANT all those in Christ are are God's ISRAEL...
COLOSSIANS 3:11 [11], WHERE THERE IS NEITHER JEW NOR GREEK circumcision nor uncircumcision, Barbarian, Scythian, bond nor free: BUT CHRIST IS ALL IN ALL.
ROMANS 10:11-13 [11], For the scripture saith, Whosoever believeth on him shall not be ashamed. [12], FOR THERE IS NO DIFFERENCE BETWEEN JEW OR GREEK: for the same Lord over all is rich unto all that call upon him. [13], FOR WHOSOEVER SHALL CALL UPON THE NAME OF THE LORD SHALL BE SAVED.
The New Covenant is for God's Israel...
EZEKIEL 36:26-27 [26], A NEW HEART WILL I GIVE YOU, AND A NEW SPIRIT WILL I PUT WITHIN YOU; AND I WILL TAKE AWAY THE STONY HEART OUT OF YOUR FLESH, AND GIVE YOU A HEART OF FLESH. [27], AND I WILL PUT MY SPIRIT WITHIN YOU, AND CAUSE YOU TO WALK IN MY STATUTES AND YOU SHALL KEEP MY JUDGEMENTS AND DO THEM.
and again...
JEREMIAH 31:33-34 [33],
BUT THIS IS THE COVENANT THAT I WILL MAKE WITH THE HOUSE OF ISRAEL; After those days, says the LORD,
I WILL PUT MY LAW IN THEIR INWARD PARTS,AND WRITE IT IN THEIR HEARTS; and will be their God, and they shall be my people. [34], And they shall teach no more every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the LORD: for they shall all know me, from the least of them unto the greatest of them, says the LORD: for I will forgive their iniquity, and I will remember their sin no more.
Paul proclaims it here...
HEBREWS 8:10-12 [10],
BUT THIS IS THE COVENANT THAT I WILL MAKE WITH THE HOUSE OF ISRAEL; After those days, says the LORD,
I WILL PUT MY LAW IN THEIR INWARD PARTS, AND WRITE IT IN THEIR HEARTS; and I will be to them a God, and they shall be to me a people: [11], And they shall not teach every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the Lord: for all shall know me, from the least to the greatest. [12], For I will be merciful to their unrighteousness, and their sins and their iniquities will I remember no more.
................
CONCLUSION: There is nothing you have provided in Romans 11 that supports your view that Gods' ISRAEL born of the flesh are Gods' ISRAEL in the new covenant. As shown above the scriptures teach the opposite. Romans 11 teaches that God has not forsaken His people. His people is defined in the scriptures as those who believe and follow him not those who do not believe and do not follow. Those Jews who do not believe and do not follow are
cut out of God's ISRAEL to make way for Gentile believers who are now (through faith) are grafted in place of unbelieving Jews. If those JEWS who do not believe and were3 cast out choose to believe and follow Gods' Word God is able to graft them in again. ISRAEL is the name given by God to all those who BELIEVE and FOLLOW his WORD. God's WORD is given to all those who BELIEVE and FOLLOW Him by faith. If we are not a part of God's ISRAEL we have no part in Gods' new covenant promise.
You may want to re-think you view of the scriptures shared with you.
