Is faith a gift that only God can give us? (Note: I have an answer, but I would like input).

Bible Highlighter said:

God does not force faith upon a person. The faith is the Bible. We gain faith by hearing the Bible. Our choice. For faith comes by hearing the Word of God (The Bible or the words of Jesus and His apostles).

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Peter had baby steps of faith but lasted just a moment on the water

ViaCrucis said:

It does the same thing as it does for adults. Baptism is Baptism.

We also don't believe that non-baptized adults are damned, or even that all baptized Christians will "go to heaven".

In Lutheranism we make a distinction between God's ordered means and power and God's absolute means and power. Dr. Luther himself makes this distinction by making an analogy to fire: if I put my hand to the flame my hand gets burned, that is God's ordinary, ordered power in creation: fire burns; and yet we read in the book of Daniel that Shadrach, Meshach, and Abednego were thrown into the fiery furnace and remained completely unharmed and unsigned. Fire burns, that's God's ordered means. Shadrach, Meshach, and Abednego were, by God's absolute power and means, preserved them through the fire; the fire didn't burn.

We know God's ordered means, the revealed ordered means by which He has said what He will do, and that He will do it. So, for that reason, we believe that God, by His means of Word and Sacrament, makes our salvation happen.

Does that mean, however, that someone who has never heard the Gospel, someone who has not received Christian Baptism, etc--is such a person unable to be saved? Of course not, God can and will save all whom He will.

How does God save an unbaptized infant? We don't know, God hasn't told us. Such a thing is not revealed to us, as such we can't anything with confidence other than that we believe in God's grace and goodness, He is the merciful "Savior of all men, especially those that believe" (1 Timothy 4:10).

We baptize our infants the same reason any is baptized, because here in the water God has connected His word (Ephesians 5:26), here the Holy Spirit is working and present (John 3:5, Titus 3:5, Acts of the Apostles 2:38), to do what God has promised He would do: So that, as Scripture says concerning Baptism, that here we are born again, clothed with Jesus Christ, dying, being buried, and rising with Christ to new life, et al is indeed accomplished.

What God has promised, God accomplishes. God never goes back on His word (Isaiah 55:11, Hebrews 13:8).

So as Christians we can say that "the one who believes and is baptized is saved" (Mark 16:16), and all else that the Scriptures show us. But we can't say what God has not said.

It's the reason why we can' say that we have been predestined by God to election, the Scriptures are clear about that; but we can't say that God chooses anyone to be damned, because He doesn't, Scripture says that God wants everyone to be saved.

Both are true, we were predestined by God to salvation, and God desires that everyone be saved; and even more, there are, it would seem, those who won't be saved. Why? If God predestines us to salvation, and if God wants all to be saved, then why then, therefore, are some not saved? And the only answer we get to that in Scripture is that there will be those who won't be saved because they refuse, resist salvation, and choose for themselves damnation.

Lutherans call this paradox the Crux Theologorum, the Theologian's Cross, the burden which a faithful theologian of the cross must bear. We don't have all the answers, we don't know all things, but what we do have is God's word, His Gospel, and so that is what we preach as we have been commanded. And that's also why properly dividing the word of truth, between Law and Gospel, and keeping this sharp dichotomy is so important: We preach the Gospel as the Gospel because this is God's saving world to the whole world; we preach the Law as the Law because this is God's word He speaks to command us to righteousness, and by consequence, demonstrate that we are not righteous. The Law, therefore, condemns; the Gospel justifies.

Or as Dr. Luther says in the 26th Thesis of the Heidelberg Disputations, "The Law says 'do this' and it is never done; Grace says 'trust this' and it is done already," and quoting St. Augustine in the same place, "Faith obtains what the Law commands".

-CryptoLutheran

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The uptake I get from your detailed reply is that, ultimately, baptism, although a sacrament, is not necessarily salvific. In fact, God's elect may be saved apart from any sacraments or even having heard the name of Jesus Christ. God, in His infinite omnipotence and wisdom, has saved all of His elect from eternity past and those who are not among the elect can never have been saved.

Bible Highlighter said:

This refusal to receive the love of the truth that they might be saved is obviously in reference to their lack of wanting to have faith
For if a person does not believe the words in the Bible, they are not accepting the faith.
The faith today is the New Testament. Faith is not some kind of granting of power to a person.

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Deuteronomy 4:2
Revelation 22:18-19
Proverbs 30:5-6

Consider these warnings and this prompting very carefully. For they were not declared without reason. Why do you think The Truth is hidden? Of which YAHUSHUA in an added and taken away bible has declared:

"At that time Jesus said, “I praise you, Father, Lord of heaven and earth, because you have hidden these things from the wise and learned, and revealed them to little children. 26 Yes, Father, for this is what you were pleased to do.

27 “All things have been committed to me by my Father. No one knows the Son except the Father, and no one knows the Father except the Son and those to whom the Son chooses to reveal him."

By His own finger was it engravened upon tablets of stone, and by the power of His spirit is it established within the hearts of the penitent. Yea love of The Truth is self evident for little children, for thus says the Lord:

"Truth is self-evident in the eyes
Of all those who love The Truth...

Indeed, it resounds within the ears of all those
Who have received of The Truth,
In whom My spirit dwells...

Says The Lord."

Do you really long for Him? Or are you waiting for a shout that will not be made? This gift is for you, if you so choose to receive it sincerely with a penitent heart. For thus says the Lord:

"Beloved, this Word, even every Volume to every Letter, is the Word of My glory, which I have put forth once again... A testament of My love and sacrifice, the announcement of My coming, a proclamation of truth, revelation of who I really am!... The Trumpet Call of God, so all those called and chosen may hear and come to Me in their proper time and season.
Behold, it is also a strong correction for all those who have taken to themselves MY name and MY Word, to pollute it, a plumb line for this wicked generation! For this Word is a waving banner, an ensign to all nations!... A trumpet of alarm and war, the sound of recompense and judgment, which shall soon fall upon every nation!


For I AM WHO I AM!...

The Only Begotten of The Father!
The One True God and Savior!
The Mashiach!...

YAHUSHUA-YAHUWAH!"

~

"Behold, My words shall never pass away, for as I am so also is My Word. For it proceeds from Me, being manifest by He Who Is True, also being called The Word... Living... Always feeding His flock the Word which is written for their nourishment, which is to be received through that part of Himself which is also in Me, The Spirit called Holy, which speaks to the truth of who I am, glorifying Him who I sent to you who bears My name and reveals My glory in Himself, even as I am glorified through Him, His glory being the same I own. For We are One from the beginning, yet manifest as two in the earth, so those whom I have chosen may know Me and come to Me and receive life. For I am The Lord, and I do not change."

~

"Yet that which I speak at present must be put first. Thus that which is contained in the Volumes of Truth is foremost, and must be brought to the forefront for all to behold. Not that this Word is at all superior; neither shall it be considered inferior to My Word found in the Scriptures of Truth. For My Word is My Word; all I speak is Scripture and Truth. And that which I speak in the hearing of My prophets is written and put forth for the generation in which it is to be received, foremost, whether they will hear or whether they will forbear.
And as it was in all times past, when I spoke by My servants, the prophets, and they in turn both wrote and spoke My words aloud, saying, “Thus says The Lord,” so it is at this time also, even during the end of this age which is upon you.
Again, I say to you, that which proceeds from My mouth at present is foremost, and shall not be put second to My Word spoken aforetime. Neither is one a foundation for the other, as though the Word proceeding from My own mouth is in need of anything to uphold it; nor is any other witness required to prove My Word as My own, when I Myself have spoken it... MY WORD STANDS! Therefore, let My present Word be shown to be in full agreement with My former Word. For it is indeed in perfect agreement with My Word as it was, yet runs straight in comparison with that which men have made crooked.

Here is wisdom few have considered, nor have they understood: If one who confesses Me lacks discernment, on account of ears which remain dull of hearing and eyes which remain dim in seeing, let them test My Word by My Word only. For any who test outside My Word, according to the words or doctrines of men, shall fail and be found in contempt before The Lord. For I alone sit as judge. Indeed, they have failed to see that My Word in the Volumes of Truth, also being called the Letters, is the rod by which the translations of men are to be tested, a light which shines upon the doctrines of men to expose them, revealing them to be blasphemies and heresies before God, all of which shall burn up in the Day, when the fire comes to test the quality of each man’s work.


Therefore, if one professing faith be wise,
He shall humble himself before Me,
Calling upon the name of The Holy One
For knowledge, in where all understanding
Flows to the truly contrite and penitent,
Flowing in pure testimony, free from corruption...

And by this only shall one be wise in the reading,
Comparing that which was given with that
Which is put forth once again, discerning
The Source and The Author to be the same...

One Word, One Book,
One on-going Testament to My glory;
By no means shall it be divided into three!...

Says The Lord."

Says the great I AM WHO I AM. Not only the new testament as it is called among men. As proverbs testify of, test His Word with His Word only, not according to the doctrines of men.

bbbbbbb said:

The uptake I get from your detailed reply is that, ultimately, baptism, although a sacrament, is not necessarily salvific.

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It's absolutely salvific. It's that Baptism, while necessary is not absolutely necessary.

An analogy I have often used is this: The ordinary way which most people are born is through the birth canal, a vaginal birth. There are times, however, when a c-section is required. Just because some people are born via c-section doesn't mean that a normal, vaginal birth isn't the ordinary way that people are born.

The ordinary, the usual, the normal way God accomplishes His work, is how He has told us. Therefore, Baptism; we are born again in Baptism. That's what Scripture teaches. Does that mean God can't bring regeneration and save someone unless they are baptized? No, of course not. God can do anything He wants.

The Church has always recognized this difference between the ordinary, and the extraordinary. That there are extraordinary circumstances that happen. So, for example, what happened in the ancient Church when a catechumen, having not yet received Baptism, may have been arrested, imprisoned, and martyred. Did the catechumen, because they were prevented from Baptism, therefore cut off from the hope and salvation that is from God? Of course not.

But that doesn't mean that Baptism isn't salvific. Or that Baptism isn't necessary.

This is something that I've seen a lot of Protestants struggle with, and I suspect part of the reason is because so much of modern Protestantism has been influenced by certain theologies that result in thinking about salvation in reductionist terms. Thus turning salvation into formula and procedure.

But salvation isn't formula or procedure, it's the breaking-in of God's grace into our world, in the Person and work of Jesus Christ; and that breaking in of grace happens right here and now in Christ's Word and Sacraments which He gave His Church.

Baptism is an invasion of God's grace into the world: Heaven is coming down into that water and actually causing salvation to happen. Baptism is not some churchly ordinance that we do for God's sake; it's not something on a list that needs to be checked off in order to "get saved".

Salvation isn't a check list. It's God saving us.

In fact, God's elect may be saved apart from any sacraments or even having heard the name of Jesus Christ. God, in His infinite omnipotence and wisdom, has saved all of His elect from eternity past and those who are not among the elect can never have been saved.

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I'm not a Calvinist, as such I don't agree with anything in this paragraph. One can't separate Election from God's Word and Sacrments. That's a significant difference between the Calvinist doctrine of election and the Lutheran doctrine of election; in Lutheranism Election is not some mysterious thing hidden in God's inscrutable will. Election is made plainly known and revealed through Word and Sacrament.

Are you baptized? Then you are God's elect, predestined in Christ before the foundation of the world.

-CryptoLutheran

ViaCrucis said:

It's absolutely salvific. It's that Baptism, while necessary is not absolutely necessary.

An analogy I have often used is this: The ordinary way which most people are born is through the birth canal, a vaginal birth. There are times, however, when a c-section is required. Just because some people are born via c-section doesn't mean that a normal, vaginal birth isn't the ordinary way that people are born.

The ordinary, the usual, the normal way God accomplishes His work, is how He has told us. Therefore, Baptism; we are born again in Baptism. That's what Scripture teaches. Does that mean God can't bring regeneration and save someone unless they are baptized? No, of course not. God can do anything He wants.

The Church has always recognized this difference between the ordinary, and the extraordinary. That there are extraordinary circumstances that happen. So, for example, what happened in the ancient Church when a catechumen, having not yet received Baptism, may have been arrested, imprisoned, and martyred. Did the catechumen, because they were prevented from Baptism, therefore cut off from the hope and salvation that is from God? Of course not.

But that doesn't mean that Baptism isn't salvific. Or that Baptism isn't necessary.

This is something that I've seen a lot of Protestants struggle with, and I suspect part of the reason is because so much of modern Protestantism has been influenced by certain theologies that result in thinking about salvation in reductionist terms. Thus turning salvation into formula and procedure.

But salvation isn't formula or procedure, it's the breaking-in of God's grace into our world, in the Person and work of Jesus Christ; and that breaking in of grace happens right here and now in Christ's Word and Sacraments which He gave His Church.

Baptism is an invasion of God's grace into the world: Heaven is coming down into that water and actually causing salvation to happen. Baptism is not some churchly ordinance that we do for God's sake; it's not something on a list that needs to be checked off in order to "get saved".

Salvation isn't a check list. It's God saving us.



I'm not a Calvinist, as such I don't agree with anything in this paragraph. One can't separate Election from God's Word and Sacrments. That's a significant difference between the Calvinist doctrine of election and the Lutheran doctrine of election; in Lutheranism Election is not some mysterious thing hidden in God's inscrutable will. Election is made plainly known and revealed through Word and Sacrament.

Are you baptized? Then you are God's elect, predestined in Christ before the foundation of the world.

-CryptoLutheran

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That is such a relief to me. I have been baptized, as has been the vast majority of Americans. It is a pity, however, that the vast majority of Chinese folks have not been baptized and, therefore, are not God's elect, predestined in Christ before the foundation of the world.

ViaCrucis said:

The Gospel of Jesus Christ is never a false hope. Jesus Christ is true hope, true life, He is our God and Savior.

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No, it gives the parents the false hope the dipping or sprinkling saved him or her. The child will in reality have to accept or reject Christ himself once he understands the gospel.

Saying that if you're baptized you are elect is a total fabrication. Not only is it untrue, it will cause people to rely on water instead of choosing to rely on Christ.

renniks said:

No, it gives the parents the false hope the dipping or sprinkling saved him or her. The child will in reality have to accept or reject Christ himself once he understands the gospel.

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Indeed, the entire sacramental system provides a basis of religious deeds which provide a false hope of salvation. It also results in immense insecurity, because one can never know if one has met all of the sacramental criteria for salvation. E.g. Have I confessed all of my sins to the priest? Have I done enough penance to satisfy a just God? Have I truly given all that I am and have to God?

bbbbbbb said:

That is such a relief to me. I have been baptized, as has been the vast majority of Americans. It is a pity, however, that the vast majority of Chinese folks have not been baptized and, therefore, are not God's elect, predestined in Christ before the foundation of the world.

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On what basis did you decide that they weren't God's elect, predestined in Christ before the foundation of the world?

-CryptoLutheran

renniks said:

No, it gives the parents the false hope the dipping or sprinkling saved him or her. The child will in reality have to accept or reject Christ himself once he understands the gospel.

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So you reject God's ability to save a small child, and replace God's saving power, work, and mercy with human deeds to merit salvation?

This baffles me as a Lutheran, but it is consistent with my observation that much of modern Protestantism is more works-based than even late medieval Catholicism was.

-CryptoLutheran

renniks said:

Saying that if you're baptized you are elect is a total fabrication. Not only is it untrue, it will cause people to rely on water instead of choosing to rely on Christ.

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Has nothing to do with the water itself. Looking to our baptism is about relying on God's word to us which is His Gospel, that He loves us, will never forsake us, and that He freely justifies us by His grace, all on Christ's account alone.

"Everyone who trusts in Him will not be put to shame." - Romans 10:11

-CryptoLutheran

ViaCrucis said:

So you reject God's ability to save a small child, and replace God's saving power, work, and mercy with human deeds to merit salvation?

This baffles me as a Lutheran, but it is consistent with my observation that much of modern Protestantism is more works-based than even late medieval Catholicism was.

-CryptoLutheran

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Dipping or sprinkling is a work. You have it backwards. God saves, not water. The ana Baptists were right. It's a sign of salvation, not salvation itself.

ViaCrucis said:

Has nothing to do with the water itself. Looking to our baptism is about relying on God's word to us which is His Gospel, that He loves us, will never forsake us, and that He freely justifies us by His grace, all on Christ's account alone.

"Everyone who trusts in Him will not be put to shame." - Romans 10:11

-CryptoLutheran

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But not everyone who gets baptized trusts God for salvation. Lots of people are walking around thinking they are going to heaven because they were sprinkled in some ritual as infants, that don't know Jesus at all.

renniks said:

Dipping or sprinkling is a work. You have it backwards. God saves, not water. The ana Baptists were right. It's a sign of salvation, not salvation itself.

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And dipping or sprinkling doesn't save someone. In Lutheranism we reject what we call an ex opera operato view of the Sacraments, Latin for "of the action itself"; that is Baptism doesn't save because of the action itself--it is not the application of water to the flesh by the human minister that accomplishes the saving work. Instead, Baptism is efficacious and salvific because God unites His word to the water, and it is the word which is salvificly effective.

In our own Confessions we say,

"From this now learn a proper understanding of the subject, and how to answer the question what Baptism is, namely thus, that it is not mere ordinary water, but water comprehended in God’s Word and command, and sanctified thereby, so that it is nothing else than a divine water; not that the water in itself is nobler than other water, but that God’s Word and command are added.

Therefore it is pure wickedness and blasphemy of the devil that now our new spirits, to mock at Baptism, omit from it God’s Word and institution, and look upon it in no other way than as water which is taken from the well, and then blather and say: How is a handful of water to help the soul?

ye, my friend, who does not know that water is water if tearing things asunder is what we are after? But how dare you thus interfere with God’s order, and tear away the most precious treasure with which God has connected and enclosed it, and which He will not have separated? For the kernel in the water is God’s Word or command and the name of God, which is a treasure greater and nobler than heaven and earth.

Comprehend the difference, then, that Baptism is quite another thing than all other water; not on account of the natural quality but because something more noble is here added; for God Himself stakes His honor, His power and might on it. Therefore it is not only natural water, but a divine, heavenly, holy, and blessed water, and in whatever other terms we can praise it,-all on account of the Word, which is a heavenly, holy Word, that no one can sufficiently extol, for it has, and is able to do, all that God is and can do [since it has all the virtue and power of God comprised in it].

Hence also it derives its essence as a Sacrament, as St. Augustine also taught: Accedat verbum ad elementum et fit sacramentum. That is, when the Word is joined to the element or natural substance, it becomes a Sacrament, that is, a holy and divine matter and sign.

Therefore we always teach that the Sacraments and all external things which God ordains and institutes should not be regarded according to the coarse, external mask, as we regard the shell of a nut, but as the Word of God is included therein.

For thus we also speak of the parental estate and of civil government. If we propose to regard them in as far as they have noses, eyes, skin, and hair, flesh and bones, they look like Turks and heathen, and some one might start up and say: Why should I esteem them more than others? But because the commandment is added: Honor thy father and thy mother, I behold a different man, adorned and clothed with the majesty and glory of God. The commandment (I say) is the chain of gold about his neck, yea, the crown upon his head, which shows to me how and why one must honor this flesh and blood.

Thus, and much more even, you must honor Baptism and esteem it glorious on account of the Word, since He Himself has honored it both by words and deeds; moreover, confirmed it with miracles from heaven. For do you think it was a jest that, when Christ was baptized, the heavens were opened and the Holy Ghost descended visibly, and everything was divine glory and majesty?

Therefore I exhort again that these two, the water and the Word, by no means be separated from one another and parted. For if the Word is separated from it, the water is the same as that with which the servant cooks, and may indeed be called a bath-keeper’s baptism. But when it is added, as God has ordained, it is a Sacrament, and is called Christ-baptism. Let this be the first part, regarding the essence and dignity of the holy Sacrament." - The Large Catechism, Part IV, 14-22

It is therefore a false charge that we attribute saving power to water, or to the acts of dipping or sprinkling.

-CryptoLutheran

renniks said:

But not everyone who gets baptized trusts God for salvation. Lots of people are walking around thinking they are going to heaven because they were sprinkled in some ritual as infants, that don't know Jesus at all.

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There are people who are baptized as children and who, later in life, walk away from the faith. This is true. Just as there are those who as adults, come to faith, are baptized, and then walk away. But it would be error, if not pure blasphemy, to say that the fault here lay in God's grace and work--for His works are perfect.The fault in ourselves, who as sinners seek all the time to flee from Him; which is why the Scriptures so desperately call to us to abide in Christ, cleave to Him in our faith, and to hold on for dear life to His Gospel.

That we are called to lives of humble repentance, as it were drowning the old man daily--and by this metaphor we remind ourselves of our Baptism, by which the old man is drowned in the water, and the new man is raised up in Christ. Drown the old man, starve him with repentance; abide in Christ in the faith which you have received, being nourished and sustained by His Word and Sacraments.

For this reason Christ freely offers Himself to us at His Table, in the bread and wine to administer to us His redeeming flesh and blood by which our sins re forgiven, and we have peace and reconciliation with God--that He who suffered once and for all is here with us, feeding us by His own Bread of Life, His own flesh, and by His new wine, His own blood: Behold the Lamb of God who takes away the sins of the world.

-CryptoLutheran

ViaCrucis said:

On what basis did you decide that they weren't God's elect, predestined in Christ before the foundation of the world?

-CryptoLutheran

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Then, if God has His elect among people who forthrightly and fervently oppose Christianity to their very dying breath, none of us have anything to worry about.

ViaCrucis said:

And dipping or sprinkling doesn't save someone. In Lutheranism we reject what we call an ex opera operato view of the Sacraments, Latin for "of the action itself"; that is Baptism doesn't save because of the action itself--it is not the application of water to the flesh by the human minister that accomplishes the saving work. Instead, Baptism is efficacious and salvific because God unites His word to the water, and it is the word which is salvificly effective.

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But the Word says that all that is required for salvation is confession and belief. The thief on the cross did all that was needed. The problem with ritualistic churches is that people trust the ritual, not Jesus himself. It pushes him away, and brings the danger of the Pharisee's way of viewing " religion". Do the right rituals and be saved and no relationship with God is required.

renniks said:

But the Word says that all that is required for salvation is confession and belief.

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Well, no. It doesn't. Unless one takes Romans 10:9 completely out of context and pretends it's the only passage talking about salvation then this is a simply untrue statement.

Here is Romans 10:9 with more context,

"But the righteousness based on faith says, “Do not say in your heart, ‘Who will ascend into heaven?’” (that is, to bring Christ down) “or ‘Who will descend into the abyss?’” (that is, to bring Christ up from the dead). But what does it say? “The word is near you, in your mouth and in your heart” (that is, the word of faith that we proclaim); because, if you confess with your mouth that Jesus is Lord and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved. For with the heart one believes and is justified, and with the mouth one confesses and is saved. For the Scripture says, “Everyone who believes in him will not be put to shame.” For there is no distinction between Jew and Greek; for the same Lord is Lord of all, bestowing his riches on all who call on him. For “everyone who calls on the name of the Lord will be saved.”" - Romans 10:6-13

Did you catch verse 8 there? "But what does it say? 'The word is near you, in your mouth and in your heart' (that is, the word of faith that we proclaim);"

There it is, the word! What we believe in our heart is the word, what we confess with our mouth is the word.

How though? How does the word get near to us? How does the word get in my mouth and in my heart?

That's what Paul follows this up with,

"How then will they call on him in whom they have not believed? And how are they to believe in him of whom they have never heard? And how are they to hear without someone preaching? And how are they to preach unless they are sent? As it is written, “How beautiful are the feet of those who preach the good news!” But they have not all obeyed the gospel. For Isaiah says, “Lord, who has believed what he has heard from us?” So faith comes from hearing, and hearing through the word of Christ." - Romans 10:14-17

See what the Apostle writes here,

"How then will they call on Him in whom they have not believed?"
"And how are they to believe in Him of whom they have never heard?"
"And how are they to hear without someone preaching?"
"And how are they to preach unless they are sent?"

The word came from Christ, given to His Church. Making His Church the possessor of His word, and then He sent them out, and by them I mean His apostles. And those apostles went forth, sent by Christ to all nations, brought that word to the nations.

And then what happened? They preached the word, they baptized, they came together for the Lord's Supper.

That's the word going out, going forth into the world. The word going forth into the world through Christ's Church, so that this word comes and encounters us, and that encounter with the word produces faith--faith which believes upon Christ and confesses Him before the world.

The word is near you, in your mouth, and in your heart, because God put it there, and so you believe and confess the Lord Jesus Christ.

The thief on the cross did all that was needed.

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There's that word need. That is, the thief did what was needed to be done in order to attain the status of being saved.

That's how you understand that episode and what happened there? Because that's not what I see when I read that text.

When I read that text I see Jesus looking upon a remorseful sinner, and telling him, "I tell you this, today you will be with Me in Paradise."

There's no way that the thief could have possibly understood the Gospel message, and then made a reasoned, deliberate choice to believe in and follow Jesus Christ by submitting himself to Christ as Lord.

But there is a broken, dying man, a sinner. A brigand who very likely did incredibly wicked things, he wasn't an ordinary thief, Rome didn't crucify petty criminals. This was a guilty man, what precisely his crimes were we will never know. The thief does not come to Jesus, the thief can't go anywhere, or do anything. The thief can only do one thing, and that's die. But before he dies, he rebukes the other criminal who berated Jesus, overwhelmed by his conscience to admit the truth: "We are guilty!"--"I am guilty!". And he almost certainly did not know it, that he spoke this in the presence of the Lord and Judge of all, but he did. And when he says to Jesus, "Lord, when you come into Your kingdom, don't forget me." Here is not a bold confession of faith, but the desperate dying whimper of a scared sinner, saying to Jesus, "Sir, if anything about You is true, then don't forget me."

Jesus beholds him, in his emptiness of sin, and says, "Today you will be with Me in Paradise". Jesus would soon gasp His last breath, then die. He then went to Paradise, in the belly of the earth for three days as the Scriptures tell us, in the pit of Hades where the dead were. "You will be with Me in Paradise" means, "You shall be counted among the righteous."

Counted among the righteous, justified. Not because he said the right words, believed the right things, thought the right thoughts, or went through the right actions. Justified by grace, the word of God to him, "You will be with Me", and faith. A meager faith, but that faith was there, and from that faith, "Lord, remember me".

That word our Lord spoke to the thief, that's the same word He speaks to us. That's the word we have heard when the Gospel is preached. That's the word we have encountered in Baptism. That's the word we encounter in the Lord's Supper. It's His Word and Sacraments, the word is living and active.

The problem with ritualistic churches is that people trust the ritual, not Jesus himself. It pushes him away, and brings the danger of the Pharisee's way of viewing " religion". Do the right rituals and be saved and no relationship with God is required.

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I absolutely agree with that. That's probably one of the big reasons why I had to give up going to Pentecostal and Evangelical churches, and needed something more substantial. I needed a church that had Jesus, and that talked about Jesus, that preached Jesus. I gave up on the empty rituals of the American Evangelical tradition because there's no Gospel in man made rituals such as the Altar Call and the Sinner's Prayer, there's no grace in telling people to say these words, perform these actions, and that by doing these things they have attained salvation--but only if they really, really, really meant it.

That's why I gave up on the unbiblical, man-made traditions and false doctrines of Evangelicalism, and went where Jesus and His Gospel is being preached. That's why I'm Lutheran now.

As the hymnist wrote, "You can have all this world, give me Jesus."

-CryptoLutheran

bbbbbbb said:

Then, if God has His elect among people who forthrightly and fervently oppose Christianity to their very dying breath, none of us have anything to worry about.

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I'm not even sure what you are talking about at this point. What are you talking about?

-CryptoLutheran