Republican House Leadership: Capitulated to Trump's Big Lie

hedrick said:

I disagree. The Republican Party will continue to get conservative votes, even of people who dislike Trump. They need to keep Trumps followers as well, both because they control a lot of money and support, and to avoid a third party.

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If we divide Republican voters up into A) Trump fans and B) Conservatives (I know, some people are both)
But for people in group B that aren't smitten by Trump, aren't gushing over his every word.
Don't they consider The Big Lie to be not only ridiculous but also dangerous and anti Democratic?
Don't they consider the ousting of people in their own party of choice, because those people are telling the truth about the Big Lie, to be the opposite of what they want? I mean, don't they want their politicians of choice to be people that tell the truth, and support democracy and peaceful transition of power after elections?

Why is it so hard for the Republican party to lose the votes of those people in group B.
Whereas it is very easy for them to lose the votes of people in Group A. All they need is D Trump himself to tell them to give political donations to D Trump rather than the party, to give votes to D Trump endorsed candidates instead of the candidates that speak the truth and who might actual have a great record of conservative policies.
Why is it that Group A seems to have all the power and gets all the pandering and group B seems to be just taken for granted?

Group A is 25-30% of the electorate.

Group B is 10% at most

So, the Republican Party has 35-40% of the electorate and can't afford to lose either group.

stevil said:

If we divide Republican voters up into A) Trump fans and B) Conservatives (I know, some people are both)
But for people in group B that aren't smitten by Trump, aren't gushing over his every word.
Don't they consider The Big Lie to be not only ridiculous but also dangerous and anti Democratic?
Don't they consider the ousting of people in their own party of choice, because those people are telling the truth about the Big Lie, to be the opposite of what they want? I mean, don't they want their politicians of choice to be people that tell the truth, and support democracy and peaceful transition of power after elections?

Why is it so hard for the Republican party to lose the votes of those people in group B.
Whereas it is very easy for them to lose the votes of people in Group A. All they need is D Trump himself to tell them to give political donations to D Trump rather than the party, to give votes to D Trump endorsed candidates instead of the candidates that speak the truth and who might actual have a great record of conservative policies.
Why is it that Group A seems to have all the power and gets all the pandering and group B seems to be just taken for granted?

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hedrick said:

I disagree. The Republican Party will continue to get conservative votes, even of people who dislike Trump. They need to keep Trumps followers as well, both because they control a lot of money and support, and to avoid a third party. I’m not so convinced that 2022 will be a problem for Republicans. I think th pe same coalition that did well in the House, Senate, and state elections will do so again, and will have extra support from state voting rules and election officials.

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I think you might want to wait and see what happens over the next week. Apparently the anti-Trump Republicans are planning to sign a letter tomorrow, calling on the party to get rid of Trump or they will form a third party. We'll see if they follow through but, since Republicans are starting to remove those that aren't staunchly for Trump, I suspect that they may indeed start a third party.

It could create an interesting question of what might happen in Washington, particularly if the non-Trump party could win enough Senate seats to make deals with Democrats, essentially removing the power of the Republicans (since they couldn't maintain a filibuster by themselves).

wing2000 said:

On Wednesday, Rep. Liz Cheney (R-Wyo.) will most likely lose her leadership post within the House Republican Conference, not because she has been untruthful. Rather, she will lose her position because she is refusing to play her assigned role in propagating the “big lie” that the 2020 election was stolen from Donald Trump.

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I see that you didn't fail to include in your remarks the term that liberal strategists came up with and want all opponents of Trump to use. And the term sparks memories of the Hitler era, too!

Cheney is more dedicated to the long-term health of our constitutional system than she is to assuaging the former president’s shattered ego, and for her integrity she may well pay with her career."

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All the rah-rah talk aside, this situation is not nearly as shocking or consequential as people want to make it out to be. The House Republicans are not trying to kick Cheney out of Congress (but several Democrats in Congress have demanded that move in the case of several members that they don't approve of), and she is not being cast by most of the House Republicans as a phony Republican, either.

The "thing" is, however, that she was elected to an internal post as a leader of the House Republicans and then made it a point to slam the most popular Republican in the country, using the same accusations and wording that many Democrats have used...and she won't shut up about it even after she's attracted nationwide attention for it!

If the shoe were on the other foot and this was going on in the Democratic caucus in one of the houses of Congress, removing that person from the leadership role but not from Congress itself and not even passing a vote of censorship...hardly anyone would pay much attention and we would instead be thinking of it as routine stuff that happens in Congress.

As Senator John Kennedy (R-LA) explained on Twitter:
"The congresswoman has every right to her opinion. She doesn’t have every right to be a leader and it’s clear to me that many House Republicans want to concentrate on the Biden agenda in 2022 and she doesn’t want to do that."

Interestingly enough, after being voted out of her leadership post Rep. Cheney issued a statement in which she appeared to confirm that view, announcing that she intends to go forward, leading the fight to prevent the Republican Party from nominating Trump for President in 2024. You know that if a Democrat, in one of the leadership positions in Congress, were to do the same thing (speaking out constantly against the most popular contender for the party nomination and also using accusations borrowed from the other party to do it) they'd be out of that job in short order.

wing2000 said:

This is so much bigger than party politics and "popularity". The problem is the Republican party line is in direct conflict with our democracy.

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If that were so, it might change this situation to some degree. But you've just explained to us the use of propagandistic terminology, and that's all that this "conflict with our democracy" kind of talk is, you know.

And it's not the Republican Party that is at present attempting to change, from Washington, all the state election laws of all the states, at once, with the intent to insure that one party in particular will hereafter control all branches of the federal government for good.

The Dems have been in the business of contesting the legitimacy of presidential elections for at least 20 years now - without any melodramatic wailing about the Big Lie or threats democracy. Fact is, a government’s legitimacy in the eyes of it’s own people has to be earned...

Albion said:

If that were so, it might change this situation to some degree. But you've just explained to us the use of propagandistic terminology, and that's all that this "conflict with our democracy" kind of talk is, you know.

And it's not the Republican Party that is at present attempting to change, from Washington, all the state election laws of all the states, at once, with the intent to insure that one party in particular will hereafter control all branches of the federal government for good.

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Could you explain to me how a bill, designed to make it easier for every eligible American to vote, will ensure "one party in particular will hereafter control all branches of the federal government"? Is there a reason Republicans, in almost every state they control, are attempting to make it more difficult to vote? I suppose that, taking the two together, we can conclude that Republicans are convinced that the Democrats have the support of the vast majority of the citizens of the US, since they are against attempts to make it easier for citizens to vote?

SimplyMe said:

Apparently the anti-Trump Republicans are planning to sign a letter tomorrow, calling on the party to get rid of Trump or they will form a third party.

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Both of them?

Albion said:

If the shoe were on the other foot and this was going on in the Democratic caucus in one of the houses of Congress, removing that person from the leadership role but not from Congress itself and not even passing a vote of censorship...hardly anyone would pay much attention and we would instead be thinking of it as routine stuff that happens in Congress.

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I doubt that the Democrats would support leader that acts as disgracefully and Trump does. That negligently and dangerously lies about the election results, refuses to concede and incites a mob to storm the Capital.
I doubt that the Democrats would support a leader that extorts a USA ally (under immediate attack by Russians) in order to cheat in the next election.
I doubt that the Democrats would support a leader who obstructed justice and fired anyone who testified against him (and in addition, their brother for no reason other than being a brother).
I doubt we will ever see the Democratic party in this position.
Democratic supporters would never keep voting for such a leader.

wing2000 said:

Nearly 4 months after the shameful attack on the U.S. Congress, it appears the House Minority Leader McCarthy will move to remove the number 3 Republican in the House - Liz Cheney.

Her sin?

Speaking her conscience and refusing to cede her party to donald trump. The party platform is quite simple: Unquestioned fealy to Trump.

After the Jan 6 attack, Cheney stated:
“The president of the United States summoned this mob, assembled the mob, and lit the flame of this attack. Everything that followed was his doing. None of this would have happened without the president.”

Unlike her feckless Republican colleagues, she has stood her ground ever since. This week she tweeted:

“The 2020 presidential election was not stolen. Anyone who claims it was is spreading THE BIG LIE, turning their back on the rule of law, and poisoning our democratic system.”


The tensions escalated on Tuesday, when Mr. McCarthy went on Mr. Trump’s favorite news program, “Fox & Friends,” to question whether Ms. Cheney could effectively carry out her role as the party’s top messenger. (Beforehand, he told a Fox reporter, “I’ve had it with her,” and “I’ve lost confidence,” according to a leaked recording of the exchange published by Axios.)

“I have heard from members concerned about her ability to carry out the job as conference chair, to carry out the message,” Mr. McCarthy said during the portion of the interview that aired. “We all need to be working as one, if we’re able to win the majority.”

“This is about whether the Republican Party is going to perpetuate lies about the 2020 election and attempt to whitewash what happened on Jan. 6,” said Jeremy Adler, the spokesman. “Liz will not do that. That is the issue.”

Sen Romney came to her defense:

“Every person of conscience draws a line beyond which they will not go: Liz Cheney refuses to lie,” Mr. Romney wrote on Twitter. “As one of my Republican Senate colleagues said to me following my impeachment vote: ‘I wouldn’t want to be a member of a group that punished someone for following their conscience.’”

House Republicans Have Had Enough of Liz Cheney’s Truth-Telling

https://www.washingtonpost.com/poli...942f58-ad30-11eb-ab4c-986555a1c511_story.html

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This is outstanding! The GQP will implode and take the GOP with it.

Onward Trumpian soldiers!

SoldierOfTheKing said:

Both of them?

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If you read the linked article, it claims that at least 100 Republicans that have worked in the Federal government are committed to signing the letter.

SimplyMe said:

If you read the linked article, it claims that at least 100 Republicans that have worked in the Federal government are committed to signing the letter.

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There are more that 2,100,000 civilian employees of the federal government at present.

If the disgruntled Republicans you're referring to managed to enlist 100 who "have" worked for the federal government at any time in the past...

...that doesn't say much for their movement, does it?

9Rock9 said:

The Trump side has largely moved on. They got the recount and saw there was no fraud, now they're back to work. It seems to be the Never Trumpers that seem to keep going on about Trump.

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Trump is out for personal revenge. He will keep lying in his vain attempt to stay relevant. Liz will keep calling him out because other republicans have capitulated out of fear of losing a vote!

The sad and scary part is trump appears to care nothing for democracy. After losing the house...then impeached twice...then losing the presidency...then helping lose the senate...Trump is now on his magical vengeance tour. Maybe he can demolish American democracy altogether?

stevil said:

I doubt that the Democrats would support leader that acts as disgracefully and Trump does. That negligently and dangerously lies about the election results, refuses to concede and incites a mob to storm the Capital.
I doubt that the Democrats would support a leader that extorts a USA ally (under immediate attack by Russians) in order to cheat in the next election.
I doubt that the Democrats would support a leader who obstructed justice and fired anyone who testified against him (and in addition, their brother for no reason other than being a brother).
I doubt we will ever see the Democratic party in this position.
Democratic supporters would never keep voting for such a leader.

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If the Democrats capitulate to a petulant child they will certainly lose us independents! They seem to acknowledge truth and hold people accountable. Remember AL Franken?

stevil said:

I doubt that the Democrats would support leader that acts as disgracefully and Trump does. That negligently and dangerously lies about the election results, refuses to concede and incites a mob to storm the Capital.
I doubt that the Democrats would support a leader that extorts a USA ally (under immediate attack by Russians) in order to cheat in the next election.
I doubt that the Democrats would support a leader who obstructed justice and fired anyone who testified against him (and in addition, their brother for no reason other than being a brother).
I doubt we will ever see the Democratic party in this position.
Democratic supporters would never keep voting for such a leader.

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The Senate acquitted him on all of those charges. You can reject the results of the Senate vote if you wish. Likewise, I can reject the outcome of the 2020 Presidential election - the Big Lie that is the Biden presidency.