Was the 70th Week of Daniel Fulfilled during the First Century?

Douggg

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keras

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So, your understanding of "to make an end of sins" is that it will occur "at the commencement of the Millennium". Or after the short time which follows that. Which would mean that you must believe that the 70th week will occur around that time since it says that there would be 70 weeks given to finish the transgression, make an end of sins, and so on and you believe those things are not yet fulfilled.

Is that what you believe then, that the 70th week occurs at the end of the Millennium?
I have a saying: Jumping to conclusions, can lead to contusions.
Be it known that I do not post here to argue with the likes of you, who are set in their beliefs, but to those who genuinely want to know the truths of the Prophetic Word.

The 70th 'week', will start 7 years before Jesus Returns. The first half will be peaceful, as the peace treaty holds. Daniel 9:27
The second half will be the Great Tribulation and those faithful to God will be kept safe; on earth. Revelation 12:14

There will be no sin during the Millennium, only at the end; in the final test for mankind, will people again have the choice; God or Satan.
 
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DavidPT

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Why would you have God destroying those that are destroying the earth, at the beginning of the GT rather than at the end of it?

Revelation 11:18 And the nations were angry, and thy wrath is come, and the time of the dead, that they should be judged, and that thou shouldest give reward unto thy servants the prophets, and to the saints, and them that fear thy name, small and great; and shouldest destroy them which destroy the earth.


Revelation 13:5 And there was given unto him a mouth speaking great things and blasphemies; and power was given unto him to continue forty and two months.
6 And he opened his mouth in blasphemy against God, to blaspheme his name, and his tabernacle, and them that dwell in heaven.
7 And it was given unto him to make war with the saints, and to overcome them: and power was given him over all kindreds, and tongues, and nations.
8 And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him, whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world.

This is the beginning of the GT and the duration of it---and power was given unto him to continue forty and two months.

This is some of the things that happen during the 42 months---And it was given unto him to make war with the saints, and to overcome them: and power was given him over all kindreds, and tongues, and nations. And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him, whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world.

How does any of that sound like----and shouldest destroy them which destroy the earth? Does that sound like what is happening during verse 7 while this is happening---And it was given unto him to make war with the saints, and to overcome them?

I just can't get on the same page with anyone who has the GT just beginning at the 7th trumpet rather than the 7th trumpet happening at the end of the GT.
 
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Douggg

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Why would you have God destroying those that are destroying the earth, at the beginning of the GT rather than at the end of it?
Spread across the second half.
 
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Timtofly

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Yes, I believe it is. Just look at the things that will occur at the 7th trumpet as recorded in Revelation 11:15-18. Seems quite climactic to me.
Yet it is ridiculous to claim sin extends into the Millennium, after the 7th Trumpet.

At what point does a march against the camp of the saints turn into a sin, if sin does not exist?

Was their march a sin 5 seconds before Satan was released from the pit?
 
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Timtofly

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Daniel 9:27:

"And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate."

Are the days of the sound coming from the 7th Trumpet 7 days, or 7 years? If you claim the Trumpet sounds continuously from the Arrival of Jesus Christ and last for 7 years, what are the other Trumpets? Is there 3.5 years after Satan's 42 months, and the 7th Trumpet sounds for 10.5 years? Does the 7th Trumpet stop mid week during the desolation, and then start back for another 3.5 years?

Daniel 9:27 can only be a week of days that gets split by the Desolation of Satan's 42 months. The 7th Trumpet has to keep sounding until all is accomplished, even Satan's 42 months, and the battle of Armageddon.
 
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Douggg

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Daniel 9:27 can only be a week of days that gets split by the Desolation of Satan's 42 months. The 7th Trumpet has to keep sounding until all is accomplished, even Satan's 42 months, and the battle of Armageddon.
Tim, I don't think the 7th trumpet blast itself is spread across the the second half of the 7years. The 7th angels' trumpet sounding is a musical alert accompanied by the voice of the 7th angel saying (paraphased)) "Attention! The days of God's plan to at last take the kingdoms of he world out from under Satan's influence have arrived!" The reaction in heaven will be rejoicing over God taking up his His great power to end what has been a 6000 year ordeal in both heaven and upon the earth.

So, over the second half of the 7 years, God starts dismantling Satan and his angels kingdom of Babylon the Great to never rise again.

Are the days of the sound coming from the 7th Trumpet 7 days, or 7 years? If you claim the Trumpet sounds continuously from the Arrival of Jesus Christ and last for 7 years, what are the other Trumpets? Is there 3.5 years after Satan's 42 months, and the 7th Trumpet sounds for 10.5 years? Does the 7th Trumpet stop mid week during the desolation, and then start back for another 3.5 years?
In the army, back in WWII days, the bugler would blow on his bugle in the morning the reveilee, to wake the troops, to call them to duty, and to start the day. It did not sound the entire day.

In similitude, the seventh angel is going to blow his trumpet in heaven for maybe 15-30 seconds, and verbally announce the days of God's judgment plan to close out the age are now begun.
 
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DavidPT

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Spread across the second half.


That asks more questions than it provides answers for.

Can you provide a few quick examples what that might look like? I for one tend to take the last 7 vials of wrath beginning at the 7th trumpet. Yet I don't take any of the vials of wrath to be meaning during the 42 months, the GT. I place the vials of wrath during the following what I have underlined.

Matthew 24:29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:


That is when God apparently begins destroying those which are destroying the earth. The trib of those days are meaning the 42 month reign of the beast, and that nothing I have underlined happens during the trib of those days, but happens immediately after it.


What I have underlined also agrees with the following in Revelation 6.

Revelation 6:12 And I beheld when he had opened the sixth seal, and, lo, there was a great earthquake; and the sun became black as sackcloth of hair, and the moon became as blood;
13 And the stars of heaven fell unto the earth, even as a fig tree casteth her untimely figs, when she is shaken of a mighty wind.
14 And the heaven departed as a scroll when it is rolled together; and every mountain and island were moved out of their places.
15 And the kings of the earth, and the great men, and the rich men, and the chief captains, and the mighty men, and every bondman, and every free man, hid themselves in the dens and in the rocks of the mountains;
16 And said to the mountains and rocks, Fall on us, and hide us from the face of him that sitteth on the throne, and from the wrath of the Lamb:
17 For the great day of his wrath is come; and who shall be able to stand?

What I have underlined in Matthew 24:29 couldn't possibly mean during the 42 month reign since the trib of those days are meaning that, and that what I have submitted from Revelation 6 is referring to what I have underlined in Matthew 24:29, thus none of this can be meaning during the 42 month reign either, and that Revelation 6:17---For the great day of his wrath is come---agrees with the following in Revelation 11:18 --- and thy wrath is come---and finally, the last 7 vials, the fact they involve wrath, this agrees with all of this as well.
 
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Douggg

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That asks more questions than it provides answers for.

Can you provide a few quick examples what that might look like? I for one tend to take the last 7 vials of wrath beginning at the 7th trumpet.
It begins with the war in the second heaven which Satan and his angels are cast down to earth, shortly after the two witnesses are killed, come back to life, and ascend to heaven.

Revelation 18, Babylon, Babylon the Great has fallen is about that event of Satan and his angels cast down to earth, as an allegory of a great trading city (in violence and iniquity) meeting it's sudden end.

Satan, fallen from (the second) heaven to earth is given the keys to the bottomless pit and the tormenting locust creatures are released.

Also during that time, the seven vials of God's wrath are poured out on the earth.

I show the seventh angel sounding his trumpet and Satan cast down to earth on my chart.




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Timtofly

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So, over the second half of the 7 years, God starts dismantling Satan and his angels kingdom of Babylon the Great to never rise again.
So the only time Satan is allowed full access, 42 months, is the same time God is working to dismantle Satan?

Or is there and additional 3.5 years after Satan's 42 months? 3.5 years after Armageddon?

You realize that one hour at Armageddon is enough time to dismantle Satan's 42 months?
 
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Timtofly

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Tim, I don't think the 7th trumpet blast itself is spread across the the second half of the 7years. The 7th angels' trumpet sounding is a musical alert accompanied by the voice of the 7th angel saying (paraphased)) "Attention! The days of God's plan to at last take the kingdoms of he world out from under Satan's influence have arrived!" The reaction in heaven will be rejoicing over God taking up his His great power to end what has been a 6000 year ordeal in both heaven and upon the earth.

So, over the second half of the 7 years, God starts dismantling Satan and his angels kingdom of Babylon the Great to never rise again.


In the army, back in WWII days, the bugler would blow on his bugle in the morning the reveilee, to wake the troops, to call them to duty, and to start the day. It did not sound the entire day.

In similitude, the seventh angel is going to blow his trumpet in heaven for maybe 15-30 seconds, and verbally announce the days of God's judgment plan to close out the age are now begun.
Precedence for God's angels does not come from WWII. How about Joshua 6:3-5

3 And ye shall compass the city, all ye men of war, and go round about the city once. Thus shalt thou do six days.

4 And seven priests shall bear before the ark seven trumpets of rams' horns: and the seventh day ye shall compass the city seven times, and the priests shall blow with the trumpets.

5 And it shall come to pass, that when they make a long blast with the ram's horn, and when ye hear the sound of the trumpet, all the people shall shout with a great shout; and the wall of the city shall fall down flat, and the people shall ascend up every man straight before him.

Now of course humans would not be able to constantly sound Trumpets for 7 days. At the Second Coming we are not talking about humans, but angels. The 7th Trumpet is surely not any less time than the week it took to settle Jericho. The week of the Cross started with a Triumphant entry and was almost 8 days in length. Started on a Sunday and ended on a Sunday. We already have precedent of two weeks in history that changed the world. Why would you relegate the 7th Trumpet to 7 seconds? It is an angel. Angels designed to shine as stars for 8 thousand years. This 7th Angel is up for a task to sound the most Triumphant Daniel 9 fulfillment in history. Even when this week of days in Daniel 9:27 is split by the future desolation of abomination for 42 months. The 7th Trumpet is the week in Daniel 9:27. The 7th Trumpet is the last week of the 490 years. If there is 42 months that split this week, then Armageddon is the last hour of the 490 years. If no 42 months, then the last hour is the wine press of Revelation 14. The last hour of the 7th Trumpet is still the wrath of God. Then the Millennium starts, with Daniel's 6 items in full force.

That we enjoy in part any of those 6 items now, is because of the Grace of God. Nineveh was healed in a day, even if it only lasted for 1 hour.
 
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Timtofly

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That is when God apparently begins destroying those which are destroying the earth. The trib of those days are meaning the 42 month reign of the beast, and that nothing I have underlined happens during the trib of those days, but happens immediately after it.
How can the 6th Seal be relevant to events that happen 7 Trumpets and 7 Thunders later?

The 6th Seal is after the tribulation of the first 4 Seals. Tribulation has been non stop since sin entered the world. The Cross was after the tribulation of those days. The Reformation was after the tribulation of those days. The US became a nation after the tribulation of those days. The Second Coming is after the tribulation of those days. The battle of Armageddon is after the tribulation of those days.

Events happen after the tribulation that comes before them, not some future point of tribulation.
 
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Douggg

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Precedence for God's angels does not come from WWII. How about Joshua 6:3-5

3 And ye shall compass the city, all ye men of war, and go round about the city once. Thus shalt thou do six days.

4 And seven priests shall bear before the ark seven trumpets of rams' horns: and the seventh day ye shall compass the city seven times, and the priests shall blow with the trumpets.

5 And it shall come to pass, that when they make a long blast with the ram's horn, and when ye hear the sound of the trumpet, all the people shall shout with a great shout; and the wall of the city shall fall down flat, and the people shall ascend up every man straight before him.

Now of course humans would not be able to constantly sound Trumpets for 7 days. At the Second Coming we are not talking about humans, but angels. The 7th Trumpet is surely not any less time than the week it took to settle Jericho. The week of the Cross started with a Triumphant entry and was almost 8 days in length. Started on a Sunday and ended on a Sunday. We already have precedent of two weeks in history that changed the world. Why would you relegate the 7th Trumpet to 7 seconds? It is an angel. Angels designed to shine as stars for 8 thousand years. This 7th Angel is up for a task to sound the most Triumphant Daniel 9 fulfillment in history. Even when this week of days in Daniel 9:27 is split by the future desolation of abomination for 42 months. The 7th Trumpet is the week in Daniel 9:27. The 7th Trumpet is the last week of the 490 years. If there is 42 months that split this week, then Armageddon is the last hour of the 490 years. If no 42 months, then the last hour is the wine press of Revelation 14. The last hour of the 7th Trumpet is still the wrath of God. Then the Millennium starts, with Daniel's 6 items in full force.

That we enjoy in part any of those 6 items now, is because of the Grace of God. Nineveh was healed in a day, even if it only lasted for 1 hour.
Tim, it is in the days of the voice of the 7th angel. Do you expect him to be speaking uninterrupted for half of the 7 years straight?

Also, it says when he begins to sound. That is an indication of him blowing his trumpet.

What it is indicating is that the 7th angel will blow his trumpet for 15-30 seconds , or less, and then announce with his voice the time has come for God to judge the earth and put an end to Satan's and his angels' rule.

Revelation 10:7 But in the days of the voice of the seventh angel, when he shall begin to sound, the mystery of God should be finished, as he hath declared to his servants the prophets.
 
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Timtofly

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Tim, it is in the days of the voice of the 7th angel. Do you expect him to be speaking uninterrupted for half of the 7 years straight?

Also, it says when he begins to sound. That is an indication of him blowing his trumpet.

What it is indicating is that the 7th angel will blow his trumpet for 15-30 seconds , or less, and then announce with his voice the time has come for God to judge the earth and put an end to Satan's and his angels' rule.

Revelation 10:7 But in the days of the voice of the seventh angel, when he shall begin to sound, the mystery of God should be finished, as he hath declared to his servants the prophets.
Are you saying no sound from the Trumpet, but an angel shouts? That is why so many get Paul confused with John's 7 Trumpets. The voice of the archangel is heard with a shout and proclamation of the arrival at the 6th Seal. The 7th Trumpet is first and foremost. There are 6 other angels also with Trumpets of less importance. After the silence of the 7th Seal opened, the other 6 Trumpets are going to start to sound. It will be weeks, months, perhaps a year leading up to the 7th and final Trumpet. This is the time of unprecedented trouble and the Lamb will be separating the sheep and the goats. The wheat and tares also along with the 7 Thunders.

This is when souls are being removed from Adam's flesh to eternal life or eternal damnation in Death. Names will be removed from the Lamb's book of life. It is the final harvest and the angels are not converting the minds of people. They are removing the souls from Adam's dead flesh. Not only is God judging, and the world is in turmoil, but the end is at hand, that is why there is great trouble never seen before. By the 7th Trumpet, Daniel's 490 years will have finished. Satan's 42 months is not part of Daniel's 490 years. 42 months is an interruption to the days and sound of the 7th Trumpet. Daniel's 490 years may have to be postponed again, another 42 months, to finish the last 3.5 days of the week of the 7th Trumpet. That is not the GT. That is just the time of the abomination of desolation. Those who worship Satan will be greatly rewarded (by Satan), not judged. The vials are only poured out after the 42 months, during the 3.5 days the 2 witnesses lay dead on the street in Jerusalem. Yes the 2 witnesses will persecute those wicked people. Yes people will die. Getting one's head chopped off is the only means of salvation from eternal damnation.

But this 42 months is not planned as part of Daniel's 490 years, any more than the fulness of the Gentiles is part of Daniel's 490 years. So yes, what happens for the 7 days the sound of the 7th Trumpet is given is very important to those alive on earth, at the end of the GT of unprecedented tribulation.
 
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Douggg

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Are you saying no sound from the Trumpet, but an angel shouts?
There is no shouting.

What it is indicating is that the 7th angel will blow his trumpet for 15-30 seconds , or less, and then announces with his voice the time has come for God to judge the earth and put an end to Satan's and his angels' rule.

That is why so many get Paul confused with John's 7 Trumpets. The voice of the archangel is heard with a shout and proclamation of the arrival at the 6th Seal. The 7th Trumpet is first and foremost. There are 6 other angels also with Trumpets of less importance. After the silence of the 7th Seal opened, the other 6 Trumpets are going to start to sound. It will be weeks, months, perhaps a year leading up to the 7th and final Trumpet. This is the time of unprecedented trouble and the Lamb will be separating the sheep and the goats. The wheat and tares also along with the 7 Thunders.
None of the events of the seals have begun yet. The seal events are a different issue than the 7 angels having the trumpets.

There is no angel recorded in the 6th seal event in Revelation 6:12-17.
 
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Yet it is ridiculous to claim sin extends into the Millennium, after the 7th Trumpet.

At what point does a march against the camp of the saints turn into a sin, if sin does not exist?

Was their march a sin 5 seconds before Satan was released from the pit?
Their intention is to destroy "the camp of the saints". Having such an intention in one's heart is sin. Those people hate the saints (followers of Christ). Jesus equated hate to murder (1 John 3:15), so they are clearly sinning by hating "the camp of the saints" and having the intention to destroy them.
 
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I have a saying: Jumping to conclusions, can lead to contusions.
Be it known that I do not post here to argue with the likes of you, who are set in their beliefs, but to those who genuinely want to know the truths of the Prophetic Word.

The 70th 'week', will start 7 years before Jesus Returns. The first half will be peaceful, as the peace treaty holds. Daniel 9:27
The second half will be the Great Tribulation and those faithful to God will be kept safe; on earth. Revelation 12:14

There will be no sin during the Millennium, only at the end; in the final test for mankind, will people again have the choice; God or Satan.
You should be able to respond to challenges to your view. If you can't back up your beliefs, then why should anyone take your views seriously?

We know from Daniel 9:24 that "to make an end of sins" is one of the six things that would be accomplished within the 70 weeks. You indicated that making an end of sins would occur after the Millennium and Satan's little season. But you have the 70th week occurring long before that. So, you don't even have the fulfillment of "to make an end of sins" within any of the 70 weeks. That contradicts Daniel 9:24.
 
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Timtofly

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There is no shouting.

What it is indicating is that the 7th angel will blow his trumpet for 15-30 seconds , or less, and then announces with his voice the time has come for God to judge the earth and put an end to Satan's and his angels' rule.


None of the events of the seals have begun yet. The seal events are a different issue than the 7 angels having the trumpets.

There is no angel recorded in the 6th seal event in Revelation 6:12-17.
Revelation 11:15
"And the seventh angel sounded; and there were great voices in heaven, saying, The kingdoms of this world are become the kingdoms of our Lord, and of his Christ; and he shall reign for ever and ever."

It was not the angel speaking. It was all the voices in heaven speaking. The angel kept on sounding the Trumpet.

As for the Seals being opened, yes, they have started. Obviously not many would notice. Most will only look back in hindsight. Do you remember this happening? Revelation 5:12-14

12 Saying with a loud voice, Worthy is the Lamb that was slain to receive power, and riches, and wisdom, and strength, and honour, and glory, and blessing.

13 And every creature which is in heaven, and on the earth, and under the earth, and such as are in the sea, and all that are in them, heard I saying, Blessing, and honour, and glory, and power, be unto him that sitteth upon the throne, and unto the Lamb for ever and ever.

14 And the four beasts said, Amen. And the four and twenty elders fell down and worshipped him that liveth for ever and ever.

If every creature stopped what they were doing, even sleeping, and said, "Blessing, and honour, and glory, and power, be unto him that sitteth upon the throne, and unto the Lamb for ever and ever.", would they have thought about it one second after the fact? Or would they have shrugged, and thought, what was that, for a second and went back to their usual business?

If it happened in the next 10 years, would it be a planned event by a one world government? Would it be coordinated with the rest of Creation? Something like that would only come from God, and the vast majority of people on earth would not even know what happened.

Yes there are angels in the 6th Seal event. Remember John is using symbolic terms:

"And the stars of heaven fell unto the earth, even as a fig tree casteth her untimely figs, when she is shaken of a mighty wind."

Jesus said in Matthew 24:31

"And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other."

Jesus literally claims the angels are coming with the trump of God. John declares the angels coming as the stars coming down easy like fig leaves. Sounds like all the stars (angels) are coming to earth.

The angels came at the first coming to Bethlehem. This time they will come to every place on earth there are humans living. Even Antarctica if there are humans camped out there.
 
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Timtofly

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Their intention is to destroy "the camp of the saints". Having such an intention in one's heart is sin. Those people hate the saints (followers of Christ). Jesus equated hate to murder (1 John 3:15), so they are clearly sinning by hating "the camp of the saints" and having the intention to destroy them.
Does not mean they had that in their hearts, 5 seconds before Satan was released from the pit.
 
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Does not mean they had that in their hearts, 5 seconds before Satan was released from the pit.
I don't know what you're talking about. It would obviously be a sin for them to intend to destroy "the camp of the saints". This isn't even worth debating.
 
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