Discussion Spiritual Warfare

Michael Collum said:

Real estate is a big deal in warfare, if you own the land and industries, you can starve the enemy.

Jesus spoke of the land and that land was the hearts of the people.

This is why if you resist the enemy, they will flee, but you have to have possession of your inner real estate.

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I have always drawn a direct parallel between our spiritual warfare and the bloody wars of Israel as seen in the OT.
And just like the Israelites in the OT, the majority of Christians have allowed the real estate of their own hearts and bodies be inhabited by others, ie. demons.
It should be normal practice that when someone becomes a Christian, he is immediately taught how to drive out all the alien inhabitants from his land.
Sadly, the church does the entire opposite, teaching believers the well known doctrine of demons that its impossible for demons to inhabit their land.

Francis Drake said:

I have always drawn a direct parallel between our spiritual warfare and the bloody wars of Israel as seen in the OT.
And just like the Israelites in the OT, the majority of Christians have allowed the real estate of their own hearts and bodies be inhabited by others, ie. demons.
It should be normal practice that when someone becomes a Christian, he is immediately taught how to drive out all the alien inhabitants from his land.
Sadly, the church does the entire opposite, teaching believers the well known doctrine of demons that its impossible for demons to inhabit their land.

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Yes, this is a stupid teaching, it puffs people up with false confidence, and the demons live in the pride it produces.

The passage that came to mind is "he who sins is a slave to sin"

If you're a slave in the allegory then you are in debt and working it off and thus cannot take hold of your inheritance.

Francis Drake said:

Thank you for that encouragement sunlover. It usually produces a barrage of rebuke from those desperate to prove that God is fickle over whether he really wants to heal people.

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It's the final frontier for excuses isn't it?
But no more! We will spread the truth, that God is no respector and also, He never interviewed folks before healing them lol.

Francis Drake said:

This is what you said in post No24
And you imagine the above verse supports that notion, when it proves the absolute opposite.
Until Paul's ACTIVE COMMAND to stop it, that demon was free do entirely what it wanted.

You cannot get away from the fact that Jesus has put responsibility on the saints to drive demons out, and until they do, demons will continue to do what they want.

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IF that be the case...

With a third of them siding w satan,
why don't they just have their way with everyone then?

They could easily wipe out the hospitals; bam! cancer for all.
Faster yet, heart failure for everyone, on the house.

Thoughts?

sunlover1 said:

IF that be the case...

With a third of them siding w satan,
why don't they just have their way with everyone then?

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Because demons don't have such absolute power! The majority of their power comes from deception, leading people into various sins, and they can only do that to the degree that people accept their tempting whispers.
That's why God gave us our consciences!
And that's why God told us to take every thought captive.
And that's why God gave the Law of Moses, ie. if our consciences failed, the threat of the hang man might be sufficient to restrain a rebellious person from murder.

They could easily wipe out the hospitals; bam! cancer for all.
Faster yet, heart failure for everyone, on the house.

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There is absolutely no doubt that demons are the cause of many sicknesses, but to succeed they still have to cope with man's God given immune system.

Demons are opportunists, and like opportunist burglars always on the lookout for open doors and windows. That's what Peter meant-
1Pet5v8Be sober, be vigilant; because your adversary the devil walks about like a roaring lion, seeking whom he may devour.
A prowling lion doesn't go for the strong, but the weak and vulnerable, likewise demons.

I would add that not all demons which afflict our lives are down to personal sin.
Many people suffer various levels of demonisation because of some ancestral sin.

Demons can also gain access via trauma, either physical, mental, or spiritual.

Examples-
Spirit of death.
I recall one of the earliest deliverances I did was a lady that came to our house group in the early 80s. By chance, she was the first person to come on the scene of a car crash, and being a nurse she had to deal with it at night in the dark and on her own.
In the week that followed she was having sleepless nights and asked us to pray for her. I discerned that a spirit of death from that crash site had entered her as she fearfully crawled into the wrecked car. We commanded it to leave her, and that immediately ended the problem.

Spirit of grief.
After several years of suffering, my dad died of cancer when I was in my late 20s. For years afterwards I couldn't even talk about him without grief and tears flooding out. No matter how I tried, I had no control and it was very embarrassing, until one day I realised it was far more than just plain natural grief.
I then commanded a spirit of grief to get out of me, and once it departed, I became free to enjoy talking about my dad without all the tears.

Spirit of Mormon.
I've mentioned elsewhere of discerning a spirit of Mormon in a woman. She vehemently denied ever having any connection to the Mormons, but as we proceeded, she suddenly recalled a childhood conversation with her mother. Apparently, her great great..................grandfather had travelled out to Salt Lake with Brigham Young in 1846!
The demon of religious deception, starting in that man had passed down through each generation and each time working to stifle their relationship with the Lord. Again we cast it out and set her free.

Lets try again...

FD do you believe that the Holy Spirit and a demon can share co-habitation in the same space within a believer?

Carl Emerson said:

Lets try again...

FD do you believe that the Holy Spirit and a demon can share co-habitation in the same space within a believer?

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I have been casting demons out of spirit filled believers for over 40 years.

I have been filled with the Holy Spirit since the 70s, and have driven many demons out of myself since that time.

Same here but I am trying to be more specific...

Do you think the Holy Spirit will share that same space as a demonic spirit?

Will the Holy co-habit with the unholy?

Carl Emerson said:

Same here but I am trying to be more specific...

Do you think the Holy Spirit will share that same space as a demonic spirit?

Will the Holy co-habit with the unholy?

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Our body is a temple of the Holy Spirit. But despite being "filled" with the Holy Spirit, people still exclude the Lord from many areas of their lives, areas they manifest little faith in.
It would appear that there are many rooms in our inner temple and not all are surrendered to the Lord.
Many otherwise Godly, Spirit filled men have been trapped by things such as inappropriate contentography. They live exemplary lives, even pastor churches and lead people to the Lord. Yet there are dark inner rooms where the Lord has been excluded, and where other spirits have control.

And all this parallels the description Ezekiel gives.-
Ez8v3He stretched out the form of a hand, and took me by a lock of my hair; and the Spirit lifted me up between earth and heaven, and brought me in visions of God to Jerusalem, to the door of the north gate of the inner court, where the seat of the image of jealousy was, which provokes to jealousy. 4And behold, the glory of the God of Israel was there, like the vision that I saw in the plain.
So clearly, Ezekiel is looking at the Temple, and can see the presence of the Holy Spirit there.

5Then He said to me, “Son of man, lift your eyes now toward the north........................

6Furthermore He said to me, “Son of man, do you see what they are doing, the great abominations that the house of Israel commits here, to make Me go far away from My sanctuary? Now turn again, you will see greater abominations.” 7So He brought me to the door of the court; and when I looked, there was a hole in the wall. 8Then He said to me, “Son of man, dig into the wall”; and when I dug into the wall, there was a door.
All is not well in the House of God.

Ezekiel now looks at the hidden abominations.
9And He said to me, “Go in, and see the wicked abominations which they are doing there.” 10So I went in and saw, and there—every sort of creeping thing, abominable beasts, and all the idols of the house of Israel, portrayed all around on the walls. 11And there stood before them seventy men of the elders of the house of Israel, and in their midst stood Jaazaniah the son of Shaphan. Each man had a censer in his hand, and a thick cloud of incense went up. 12Then He said to me, “Son of man, have you seen what the elders of the house of Israel do in the dark, every man in the room of his idols? For they say, ‘The Lord does not see us, the Lord has forsaken the land.’ ”
Yet despite all the demonic idolatry, the text proves the Holy Spirit is still in residence!

Then in chapter9, we see the presence of the Lord beginning to depart.-
Ez9v3Now the glory of the God of Israel had gone up from the cherub, where it had been, to the threshold of the temple. And He called to the man clothed with linen, who had the writer’s inkhorn at his side;
From chapter 9 through 11, the Presence of the Lord moves through several stages before finally departing.-
11v23And the glory of the Lord went up from the midst of the city and stood on the mountain, which is on the east side of the city.

And in all that time, the demons behind the idols were cohabiting the Temple with the Holy Spirit, which obviously disproves the claim that demons cannot be in a believer because they cannot inhabit the same temple.

First off I would be the last to challenge the proposition that a born again may need deliverance.

However the distinction between possession and oppression needs to be clear.

This comes down to a matter of definition.

Needless to say you seem to be in agreement that the place where the holy Spirit dwells in the believers heart can not be shared by the demonic.

I agree with the house analogy and often use this myself.

There is a very good reason for this conclusion that many miss.

I put this out there because I also have had to learn by doing on the front line beyond where the church would normally reach.

Ecc 3:11 States that there is an eternal space in the heart of men.

I believe that the Holy Spirit alone can dwell in this timeless place within believers.

The demonic can only operate in the created realm in which they were given some dominion. They are not eternal beings pre-existing the creation, given to exist in timelessness.

This means that if possession is defined by having a demonic entity permanently in residence that exercises full control over the believer then I don't see this as possible, because He that is within is greater and will have the final say as owner of the soul.

We know that Satan is an arch legalist who demands the right to operate through sinful allegiance.

We also know that His activities are severely limited in believers lives if they exercise the authority and power given to His church under the direction of the Holy Spirit.

But this is the crunch - the modern church often is oblivious to Satans activity and may even teach that modern therapy and medication is a more progressive way to deal with what can be demonic intrusion.

Worse still, deliverance that is taught in the church can be 'by numbers' and not have the discernment gifts operating or even the Power and Authority to deal with the issues. This can lead to a total circus, as if there is some sort of contest going on between Satan and God. I find this quite disturbing, there seems to be little understanding about delivering a truely authoritative Word.

Francis Drake said:

Because demons don't have such absolute power! The majority of their power comes from deception, leading people into various sins, and they can only do that to the degree that people accept their tempting whispers.

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I agree that they use deception. Smoke and mirrors.
It's been attempted in my life as recent as today.
And indeed, we take that captive and we draw our sword.
You say that "a majority" of their power.
Where is the rest of their power from?
Just curious about your throries.
We can only know for certain what we're
taught by God through that more sure word.
(If there's a contest)

That's why God gave us our consciences!
And that's why God told us to take every thought captive.
And that's why God gave the Law of Moses, ie. if our consciences failed, the threat of the hang man might be sufficient to restrain a rebellious person from murder.

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Yes, He gave us everything we need for life and godliness, didn't He?

There is absolutely no doubt that demons are the cause of many sicknesses, but to succeed they still have to cope with man's God given immune system.

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I would agree that they'd have to cope with our sword, but not sure about that immune system. Dunno.. IJS

Demons are opportunists, and like opportunist burglars always on the lookout for open doors and windows. That's what Peter meant-
1Pet5v8Be sober, be vigilant; because your adversary the devil walks about like a roaring lion, seeking whom he may devour.
A prowling lion doesn't go for the strong, but the weak and vulnerable, likewise demons.

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Mmm, for the most part.
That's why we're mandated to pray at all times for all...
But they will gather in groups and "attempt to" take down strong.
To no avail in the end it seems to strengthen the strong. (Just my opinion)

I would add that not all demons which afflict our lives are down to personal sin.
Many people suffer various levels of demonisation because of some ancestral sin.

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Wouldn't that come under that same rule of a type of "weakness" in the hosts character, rather than some elusive possible sin of the fathers?

Demons can also gain access via trauma, either physical, mental, or spiritual.

Examples-
Spirit of death.
I recall one of the earliest deliverances I did was a lady that came to our house group in the early 80s. By chance, she was the first person to come on the scene of a car crash, and being a nurse she had to deal with it at night in the dark and on her own.
In the week that followed she was having sleepless nights and asked us to pray for her. I discerned that a spirit of death from that crash site had entered her as she fearfully crawled into the wrecked car. We commanded it to leave her, and that immediately ended the problem.

Spirit of grief.
After several years of suffering, my dad died of cancer when I was in my late 20s. For years afterwards I couldn't even talk about him without grief and tears flooding out. No matter how I tried, I had no control and it was very embarrassing, until one day I realised it was far more than just plain natural grief.
I then commanded a spirit of grief to get out of me, and once it departed, I became free to enjoy talking about my dad without all the tears.

Spirit of Mormon.
I've mentioned elsewhere of discerning a spirit of Mormon in a woman. She vehemently denied ever having any connection to the Mormons, but as we proceeded, she suddenly recalled a childhood conversation with her mother. Apparently, her great great..................grandfather had travelled out to Salt Lake with Brigham Young in 1846!
The demon of religious deception, starting in that man had passed down through each generation and each time working to stifle their relationship with the Lord. Again we cast it out and set her free.

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Thank you for sharing these! So many will read this for years to come.
Peace to you.

Carl Emerson said:

Same here but I am trying to be more specific...

Do you think the Holy Spirit will share that same space as a demonic spirit?

Will the Holy co-habit with the unholy?

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I wonder if we can really know.
But I do know that people who want to serve the Lord
can be stymied by evil spirits to the point of not being able
to walk out their calling.
I struggled so with a spirit of fear, and I remember the day that
scoundrel felt welcome. It was many years ago, during a storm.
and really i still have to show it the door sometimes.

sunlover1 said:

I wonder if we can really know.
But I do know that people who want to serve the Lord
can be stymied by evil spirits to the point of not being able
to walk out their calling.
I struggled so with a spirit of fear, and I remember the day that
scoundrel felt welcome. It was many years ago, during a storm.
and really i still have to show it the door sometimes.

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For those truely called to a ministry there is revelation available specific to the calling.
That fear can be dealt with permanently rather than being a perpetual visitor.
No doubt we are called to a battle and His calling on our lives can be challenged. Personally I believe a key is to be operating in unity with others of like mind, sharing complimentary gifts in an atmosphere of mutual submission in which the least can be heard and the gifts of discernment flourish.

Listed Biblical strongholds:

1) A Familiar spirit
2) A spirit of Jealousy
3) The spirit of Whoredom
4) A Lying spirit
5) A perverse spirit/spirit of perversion
6) A spirit of Pride/Haughtiness
7) The spirit of Heaviness
8) A spirit of Infirmity
9) A Deaf and Dumb spirit
10) A Seducing/Deceiving spirit
11) The spirit of Fear
12) The spirit of Bondage
13) A Legion of Unclean spirits

There is a spirit of anti-Christ listed, but The Holy Spirit has yet to show me if it is an actual stronghold that can be cast out.

sunlover1 said:

Wouldn't that come under that same rule of a type of "weakness" in the hosts character, rather than some elusive possible sin of the fathers?

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I've dealt with ancestral demons far too many times to count.
Here's an early one I've posted many times on the forum.

Deleted.

ARBITER01 said:

Listed Biblical strongholds:

1) A Familiar spirit
2) A spirit of Jealousy
3) The spirit of Whoredom
4) A Lying spirit
5) A perverse spirit/spirit of perversion
6) A spirit of Pride/Haughtiness
7) The spirit of Heaviness
8) A spirit of Infirmity
9) A Deaf and Dumb spirit
10) A Seducing/Deceiving spirit
11) The spirit of Fear
12) The spirit of Bondage
13) A Legion of Unclean spirits

There is a spirit of anti-Christ listed, but The Holy Spirit has yet to show me if it is an actual stronghold that can be cast out.

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There are countless more spirits out there than just the biblical named ones, hence in decades of warfare, I've never bothered with that list.
The names on your list simply describe what they do, and sometimes that's enough of an address to use when casting them out.

But ultimately, the closer you can name the demon, the easier it is to pinpoint and remove, and that's where discernment comes in, ie. see post No 155 for the spirit of Mormon, clearly not in the bible.

However, there are demons for every imaginable sin, perversion, or false religion etc, many not invented 2000 years ago.

Francis Drake said:

There are countless more spirits out there than just the biblical named ones, hence in decades of warfare, I've never bothered with that list.
The names on your list simply describe what they do, and sometimes that's enough of an address to use when casting them out.

But ultimately, the closer you can name the demon, the easier it is to pinpoint and remove, and that's where discernment comes in, ie. see post No 155 for the spirit of Mormon, clearly not in the bible.

However, there are demons for every imaginable sin, perversion, or false religion etc, many not invented 2000 years ago.

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Again, you and I will probably find disagreement.

Jesus specifically mentioned about going after the strong man/stronghold, and the rest would follow being cast out, and these are the listed ones in our bibles.

Francis Drake said:

But ultimately, the closer you can name the demon, the easier it is to pinpoint and remove, and that's where discernment comes in

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Interesting - in my ministry I address directly what I sense through discernment and never dialogue with lying demons. The only exception is when I get a Rhema word regarding an entity, but even in this case my interaction only involves command and never dialogue. I don't expect that lying demons will reveal their true identity.

ARBITER01 said:

Again, you and I will probably find disagreement.

Jesus specifically mentioned about going after the strong man/stronghold, and the rest would follow being cast out, and these are the listed ones in our bibles.

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Please show me the scriptures to correctly prove that.