Creationism/Creation Science... approved by Arkansas house

Belk · May 8, 2021

Psalm 27 said:
Fair point, but remember proverbs 22:6.

Why do we bother to teach children at all (ie. literacy, numeracy etc.)

Let’s just pretend for a moment, crazy as this may seem, that evolution is a false representation.
Notwithstanding, evolution has been taught in education for as long as I can remember, and I’m in my fifties.

For the sake of fairness, Why shouldn’t we give the same time over to a literal creation teaching in the classroom for forty ish years?

Then let children make their own minds up...

Which one? Shall we start with the Muslim teaching? The Hindu? Perhaps native American? Or perhaps we can just teach science in the science class and leave it to religion to spread their teachings on their own?

Psalm 27 · May 8, 2021

Belk said:
Which one? Shall we start with the Muslim teaching? The Hindu? Perhaps native American? Or perhaps we can just teach science in the science class and leave it to religion to spread their teachings on their own?

‘Spread’ their teachings lol.

The Genesis one

Come on, It’s only fair. evolutionists have been ‘spreading’ Their agenda for long enough.

We’re told to ‘spread’ His teachings;‘ if it’s right in your eyes, or The Lord’s you decide:
He sent us to give The Good News to the poor,
Tell prisoners that they are prisoners no more,
tell blind people that they can see,
and set the downtrodden free,
and go tell everyone, The News that The Kingdom of God has come, and go tell everyone The news, that God’s Kingdom has come...

Jimmy D · May 8, 2021

Psalm 27 said:
Fair point, but remember proverbs 22:6.

Why do we bother to teach children at all (ie. literacy, numeracy etc.)

Let’s just pretend for a moment, crazy as this may seem, that evolution is a false representation.
Notwithstanding, evolution has been taught in education for as long as I can remember, and I’m in my fifties.

For the sake of fairness, Why shouldn’t we give the same time over to a literal creation teaching in the classroom for forty ish years?

Then let children make their own minds up...

Because one is science, the other religion, teach about the creation stories in a religious education class and evolution in the science class, everyone’s happy.

Psalm 27 · May 8, 2021

Jimmy D said:
Because one is science, the other religion, teach about the creation stories in a religious education class and evolution in the science class, everyone’s happy.

Creation stories, thats your opinion. Evolution is a story to me. I’m not happy because evolution has been forced on children for decades. It can take years, if not a lifetime for the truth to be revealed...All I’m suggesting is to Give creation a chance. After all, aren’t they both valid theories?

BobRyan · May 8, 2021

Psalm 27 said:
Fair point, but remember proverbs 22:6.

Why do we bother to teach children at all (ie. literacy, numeracy etc.)

Let’s just pretend for a moment, crazy as this may seem, that evolution is a false representation.
Notwithstanding, evolution has been taught in education for as long as I can remember, and I’m in my fifties.

For the sake of fairness, Why shouldn’t we give the same time over to a literal creation teaching in the classroom for forty ish years?

Then let children make their own minds up...

It is fine with me - but those are the two models -- either teach an "origins" section where both are presented - and then that is followed by a normal biology class where "observed biology" with repeatable demonstrated claims are made or else omitting the "doctrine on origins" entirely from the class regardless if it is the Bible's version or an atheist version of the doctrine on origins.

variant · May 8, 2021

BobRyan said:
It is fine with me - but those are the two models -- either teach an "origins" section where both are presented - and then that is followed by a normal biology class where "observed biology" with repeatable demonstrated claims are made or else omitting the "doctrine on origins" entirely from the class regardless if it is the Bible's version or an atheist version of the doctrine on origins.

We can't teach religious clams of how God created biological life in a science class because religious people don't even have the first idea of how that works.

BobRyan · May 8, 2021

Jimmy D said:
Because one is science, the other religion,

Believe in one or the other "doctrine on origins" is by definition -- belief.

What is science is this --

“Evolution: Change in the heritable characteristics of biological populations over successive generations.[1][2] These characteristics are the expressions of genes that are passed on from parent to offspring during reproduction. Different characteristics tend to exist within any given population as a result of mutation, genetic recombination and other sources of genetic variation.[3] Evolution occurs when evolutionary processes such as natural selection (including sexual selection) and genetic drift act on this variation, resulting in certain characteristics becoming more common or rare within a population”

===========================

what is "belief" is this sweeping claim that extends observable science above to try and account for all species on planet Earth all phyla -

“It is this process of evolution that has given rise to biodiversity at every level of biological organization, including the levels of species, individual organisms and molecules."

BobRyan · May 8, 2021

variant said:
We can't teach religious clams

I am ok with that part as a restriction in public school science classes.

But in private schools students can be introduced to the religious claims about the doctrine on origins in evolutionism and in creationism.

variant · May 8, 2021

BobRyan said:
I am ok with that part as a restriction in public schools science classes.

Then teaching what scientists think the early chemical processes that created life might have looked like isn't a problem.

BobRyan · May 8, 2021

variant said:
Then teaching what scientists think the early chemical processes that created life might have looked like isn't a problem.

Imagination is not science. It is story telling.

But one thing is for sure - atheists and creationists do agree on one thing - there is a starting point for Earth as a "lifeless rock".

variant · May 8, 2021

BobRyan said:
Imagination is not science. It is story telling.

Nope Chemistry.

BobRyan · May 8, 2021

variant said:
Nope Chemistry.

Chemistry is observable physics. Not "imagined"

variant · May 8, 2021

BobRyan said:
Chemistry is observable physics. Not "imagined"

All of the principles here are observable.

BobRyan · May 8, 2021

variant said:
All of the principles here are observable.

there are chemistry experiments - but no "evolution experiments" to demonstrate its salient point claim for producing all phyla on Earth much less abiogenesis.

The OP comes to mind at this point.

We find it ends like this ---

Some may ask if flaws in the argument for evolution are noticed by world class atheist evolutionists - I have a thought experiment to introduce discussion of the point here #226 and here - #272

variant · May 8, 2021

BobRyan said:
there are chemistry experiments - but no "evolution experiments" to demonstrate its salient point claim for producing all phyla on Earth much less abiogenesis.

Evolution comes afterwards.

The most basic chemistry required for life is yet unknown but it would have to have certain qualities shared by all life.

It would be good to teach these basic principles if and only if it would get folks like yourself to understand the problem from the perspective you argue against.

Whyayeman · May 8, 2021

Psalm 27 said:
After all, aren’t they both valid theories?

Only evolution is a valid scientific theory in that it has scientific rigour and is regarded as provisional; that is modifiable in the light of further observation and hypothesising.

Creationism is a valid viewpoint from a religious perspective, but it is not a theory in any sense. Nobody posited the Biblical account of of creation from observed phenomena. There is no possibility of modifying that account; it is fixed by dogma.

Jimmy D · May 8, 2021

Psalm 27 said:
Creation stories, thats your opinion.

No, it’s a fact, even if it is a true story. I was actually trying to avoid the term “myth”, shall we settle for “account”? It’s not my intention to antagonise anyone.

Psalm 27 said:
I’m not happy because evolution has been forced on children for decades. It can take years, if not a lifetime for the truth to be revealed

Unfortunately for you it like looks like that’s set to continue, if you’d like your children to be taught about creationism the it seems they’ll need to taught about it outside of school.

Psalm 27 said:
All I’m suggesting is to Give creation a chance. After all, aren’t they both valid theories?

Well no, one is a scientific theory, with mountains of evidence from many scientific fields... all concurring. And which actually has practical benefits when applied in the real world (medicine, agriculture etc).

The other is an short account which is very light on detail to say the least.... It also isn’t a theory in any sense of the word.

Jimmy D · May 8, 2021

BobRyan said:
Believe in one or the other "doctrine on origins" is by definition -- belief.

Sorry Bob, he/she specifically mentioned evolution, not “origins”. How life changes not how it began.

BobRyan said:
What is science is this --

“Evolution: Change in the heritable characteristics of biological populations over successive generations.[1][2] These characteristics are the expressions of genes that are passed on from parent to offspring during reproduction. Different characteristics tend to exist within any given population as a result of mutation, genetic recombination and other sources of genetic variation.[3] Evolution occurs when evolutionary processes such as natural selection (including sexual selection) and genetic drift act on this variation, resulting in certain characteristics becoming more common or rare within a population”

===========================

what is "belief" is this sweeping claim that extends observable science above to try and account for all species on planet Earth all phyla -

“It is this process of evolution that has given rise to biodiversity at every level of biological organization, including the levels of species, individual organisms and molecules."

Well that’s the conclusion the evidence points to yes.

Yttrium · May 8, 2021

BobRyan said:
It is fine with me - but those are the two models -- either teach an "origins" section where both are presented - and then that is followed by a normal biology class where "observed biology" with repeatable demonstrated claims are made or else omitting the "doctrine on origins" entirely from the class regardless if it is the Bible's version or an atheist version of the doctrine on origins.

I can agree with making sure no "doctrine on origins" is taught in school. The Theory of Evolution is still going to be taught in biology as a scientific theory. You can't really separate evolution from biology these days. Your silly "observed biology" standard isn't going anywhere.

Belk · May 8, 2021

Psalm 27 said:
‘Spread’ their teachings lol.

The Genesis one
Come on, It’s only fair. evolutionists have been ‘spreading’ Their agenda for long enough.

Why the Genesis one? Why does your religion get special consideration over all others?

Psalm 27 said:
We’re told to ‘spread’ His teachings;‘ if it’s right in your eyes, or The Lord’s you decide:
He sent us to give The Good News to the poor,
Tell prisoners that they are prisoners no more,
tell blind people that they can see,
and set the downtrodden free,
and go tell everyone, The News that The Kingdom of God has come, and go tell everyone The news, that God’s Kingdom has come...

I do not care what you are told. Your religion is yours and our founding documents require the state not endorse them. Teach it in your house of worship.

Creationism/Creation Science... approved by Arkansas house

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