Was the 70th Week of Daniel Fulfilled during the First Century?

Spiritual Jew said:

Rev 20:7-9, which obviously describes a lot of sin going on at that point.

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How is it obvious? It does not say billions of humans are sinning? It says they are decieved by Satan. Did Eve sin by listening to Satan? Or did Eve sin when she thought about the fruit? Or did Eve sin when she actually ate the fruit? Or did sin happen after Adam ate the fruit? Paul did not say as by one female, Eve, sin entered the world. If Satan is not around, how can humans be decieved by Satan? Is Satan not even going to be released and their deception is just symbolic at the last season? So their sin is symbolic, their attempt to do battle is symbolic. This event is not even literal, or only literal and the 1000 years is not literal?

Timtofly said:

Gabriel did not say the time ended, but that Messiah would be cut off and the week would restart at a later date.

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Gabriel said nothing about "the week would restart at a later date". That's a futurist presumption.

keras said:

Can you not read and understand Revelation 20:1-10?

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Yes, I can. Thanks for asking. It says nothing about no sin occurring during the thousand years. Just thought I'd let you know that in case you are not able to read and understand it.

Satan is chained up when Jesus Returns, so the Millennium will be sinless. Excepting until at the end: Satan will be released for a little season. Again, he deceives many people and they attempt to conquer Jesus and His holy people. Satan fails and the GWT Judgment ensues, where all who have ever opposed Jesus will go into the Lake of Fire, and all whose names are found Written in the Book of Life; will go with God into Eternity.

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I had asked you about your understanding of Daniel 9:24. Particularly, the part that refers to making an end of sins or sin. What is your understanding of that? When do you believe that will be fulfilled and how?

Timtofly said:

How is it obvious? It does not say billions of humans are sinning? It says they are decieved by Satan.

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And it describes them opposing "the camp of the saints". Do you think God will be okay with that? Clearly not. So, that is sin. This is obvious to probably everyone except you.

DavidPT said:

Assuming the 70 weeks ended early in the first century, in this case way before 70 AD, how does it make sense for the transgression against the holy city to be finished, then some 40 years later this same city is destroyed?

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I just want to make sure I'm following you. Do you agree that the Cross was - at least part of - "finishing the transgression"? Can we discuss just that phrase for a bit? Do you also agree with the dating of the Cross in 30 AD?

I think it's helpful to keep in mind the context of most of this is Levitical Law in regards to the Temple.

There's a lot of significance to what pastors/teachers call Jesus "cleansing the Temple" just prior to the Cross in 30 AD. It's based on a detailed process.

Douggg said:

making an end to sins infers making an end to the wages of sin being eternal death.
i.e making a end to the power of sin.

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Did Jesus not already accomplish that? What is your understanding of the fulfillment of that? When and how?

Spiritual Jew said:

Did Jesus not already accomplish that? What is your understanding of the fulfillment of that? When and how?

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Jesus finished God's side of the new covenant in Christ. The Jews and Jerusalem have yet to say "yes" in their agreement to it.

Again, it is not 70wks determined upon Jesus. The 70wks are determined on Daniel's people and Jerusalem.

Douggg said:

Jesus finished God's side of the new covenant in Christ. The Jews and Jerusalem have yet to say "yes" in their agreement to it.

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But, many Jews have said yet to it in the past 2,000 years or so.

Again, it is not 70wks determined upon Jesus. The 70wks are determined on Daniel's people and Jerusalem.

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Only Jesus could accomplish the things listed in Daniel 9:24. To think otherwise is a case of giving sinful mankind too much credit. Jesus came to do what sinful mankind could not do for themselves. That is what Daniel 9:24-27 is all about.

Spiritual Jew said:

But, many Jews have said yet to it in the past 2,000 years or so.

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Yes, I agree to that. But the majority have not.

I was watching a You Tube which some person was asking Jews in Jerusalem, "who is a Jew?" And one of the responders, a young ultra orthodox Jew man, maybe in his late teens, said, "Anyone who doesn't believe in Jesus."

Spiritual Jew said:

Only Jesus could accomplish the things listed in Daniel 9:24. To think otherwise is a case of giving sinful mankind too much credit. Jesus came to do what sinful mankind could not do for themselves. That is what Daniel 9:24-27 is all about.

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Have you ever heard the expression, preaching to the choir? Everyone in this forum knows and believes what Jesus did.

The issue is when the 70wks regarding those things will be what the Jews and Jerusalem
believe and embrace regarding Jesus.

In Ezekiel 39, it is not until after that 7 years following Gog/Magog, that it indicates that the Jews will have been forgiven of their trespass against Jesus.

Spiritual Jew said:

Yes, I can. Thanks for asking. It says nothing about no sin occurring during the thousand years. Just thought I'd let you know that in case you are not able to read and understand it.

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Revelation 20:1-10 says that Satan the great Deceiver will be unable to deceive anyone during the Millennium. Therefore; no sin then.
Also that will be the time when the New Covenant will be in full effect; His Laws will be Written in our hearts.

Spiritual Jew said:

I had asked you about your understanding of Daniel 9:24. Particularly, the part that refers to making an end of sins or sin. What is your understanding of that? When do you believe that will be fulfilled and how?

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At the commencement of the Millennium.
There will be a short time at the end of the Millennium, when many people will sin against God once more. This is the final test for mankind.

mkgal1 said:

Gabriel said nothing about "the week would restart at a later date". That's a futurist presumption.

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No that is the witness of John in the book of Revelation. Can you change the wording of Revelation? Can you change when the Second Coming happens to fit your own private interpretations?

Spiritual Jew said:

Yes, I can. Thanks for asking. It says nothing about no sin occurring during the thousand years. Just thought I'd let you know that in case you are not able to read and understand it.

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So the 7th Trumpet is not the conclusion to all things per Revelation 10:7?

"And the angel which I saw stand upon the sea and upon the earth lifted up his hand to heaven,
And sware by him that liveth for ever and ever, who created heaven, and the things that therein are, and the earth, and the things that therein are, and the sea, and the things which are therein, that there should be time no longer:
But in the days of the voice of the seventh angel, when he shall begin to sound, the mystery of God should be finished, as he hath declared to his servants the prophets."

What mystery is God finishing during the 7th Trumpet event? Which prophets?

Spiritual Jew said:

And it describes them opposing "the camp of the saints". Do you think God will be okay with that? Clearly not. So, that is sin. This is obvious to probably everyone except you.

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Yes, so why are not sinners consumed by fire every time they argue with a Christian? You are not defining your sin and it's Millennium punishment very well.

Douggg said:

Jesus finished God's side of the new covenant in Christ. The Jews and Jerusalem have yet to say "yes" in their agreement to it

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The biblical story of the people who were in covenant with God through Moses is a story that occurred at a very specific point in *history*.

"The Jews" isn't even an appropriate term.....because this was a group that no longer exists - but we are the spiritual children.

Descendants of Abraham said "yes".....children in the lineage of David said "yes". We wouldn't have Christianity if they hadn't......so please don't dismiss this critical detail by bringing up a modern group of people that have *nothing* to do with the biblical story.

Douggg said:

Jesus finished God's side of the new covenant in Christ. The Jews and Jerusalem have yet to say "yes" in their agreement to it.

Again, it is not 70wks determined upon Jesus. The 70wks are determined on Daniel's people and Jerusalem.

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Too many Christians are taught in churches, that the new covenant started after the cross, based on a misinterpretation of what Jesus stated in Matthew 26:28

Guojing said:

Too many Christians are taught in churches, that the new covenant started after the cross, based on a misinterpretation of what Jesus stated in Matthew 26:28

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Reading what Zechariah sang after Gabriel visited him should clear up what covenant is confirmed (and help to answer the question, "when?".....

mkgal1 said:

Reading what Zechariah sang after Gabriel visited him should clear up what covenant is confirmed (and help to answer the question, "when?".....

Luke 1
72to show mercy to our fathers

and to remember His holy covenant,73the oath He swore to our father Abraham​

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Well, the Covenant of Law pointed to Jesus too.

Deuteronomy 18:15 The LORD thy God will raise up unto thee a Prophet from the midst of thee, of thy brethren, like unto me; unto him ye shall hearken;

keras said:

At the commencement of the Millennium.
There will be a short time at the end of the Millennium, when many people will sin against God once more. This is the final test for mankind.

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So, your understanding of "to make an end of sins" is that it will occur "at the commencement of the Millennium". Or after the short time which follows that. Which would mean that you must believe that the 70th week will occur around that time since it says that there would be 70 weeks given to finish the transgression, make an end of sins, and so on and you believe those things are not yet fulfilled.

Is that what you believe then, that the 70th week occurs at the end of the Millennium?

Timtofly said:

Yes, so why are not sinners consumed by fire every time they argue with a Christian? You are not defining your sin and it's Millennium punishment very well.

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LOL. If you want to think that people opposing "the camp of the saints" isn't a sin, that's your choice. I find that belief to be utterly ridiculous.

Timtofly said:

So the 7th Trumpet is not the conclusion to all things per Revelation 10:7?

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Yes, I believe it is. Just look at the things that will occur at the 7th trumpet as recorded in Revelation 11:15-18. Seems quite climactic to me.