Trying to enact a wealth tax

hislegacy

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This is a great article that presents the pro's and con's.

It was interesting to note there were only two cons presented:

What Are the Disadvantages of a Wealth Tax?
Not surprisingly, not everyone is quite so sold on the idea...

1. IT WON’T WORK
In recent decades, many nations have tried some form of a wealth tax. Most have reversed course after discovering how difficult it was to measure and enforce. Not all assets are in the form of stocks and bonds, or piles of cash in bags marked with dollar signs. Consistently assessing the value of privately held corporations or investments divided into infinite pieces and funneled through a half-dozen subsidiaries with holdings of something… well, it’s a mess. And what about things like artwork or rare collectibles?

Besides, opponents argue, if you “punish” people for being rich, they’ll simply move to a country that’s nicer to them. They can afford to, after all. This is sometimes called “capital flight,” and we see it happen with big businesses all the time. You want us to pay more taxes? Fine – we’ll set up shop on the remote island of Glutzenberg and do business from there instead. King Wally says we’re welcome anytime.

2. IT’S UNETHICAL AND UNCONSTITUTIONAL
Like a property tax, a wealth tax is a double tax – the government takes its share when the income is made, then again each year after that income has transformed into assets. Opponents argue that in addition to actually discouraging success and investment, it’s simply wrong and “un-American.”

It might also be unconstitutional. Article I, Section 9 of the U.S. Constitution is a list of things that Congress is not allowed to do. The fourth clause says this:

No Capitation, or other direct, Tax shall be laid, unless in Proportion to the Census or enumeration herein before directed to be taken.

The thing about “in proportion to the census” is because the federal government wasn’t expected to tax individuals. The states taxed individuals, and the federal government had the right to expect contributions from the states. The money may have come from individuals, but indirectly. That changed with the passage of the 16th Amendment in the early 20th century. In case you don’t have your Pocket Constitution on you, it says this:

The Congress shall have the power to lay and collect taxes on incomes, from whatever source derived, without apportionment among the several States, and without regard to any census or enumeration.

In other words, it changed the rule from Article I, Section 9. That’s what Amendments are – “edits” to the Constitution which update or alter the fundamental laws on which our nation is theoretically run. But notice the specifics – “taxes on INCOMES.” Not taxes in general.

Now, the thing about constitutional law is that nothing’s ever as simple or straightforward as you and I might expect. But this is enough of a snag that it might make passing a wealth tax tricky.​
 

Fantine

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I think the best thing to do is to enact a small transaction fee on stock trading--perhaps 1/4% per share. Given that even discount brokers used to charge $6.95 per trade and now charge nothing, a fee of twenty-five cents on a $100 stock would mean that you could trade 25 shares of that stock without paying as much as you used to for trades at the very cheapest brokers.

It would be insignificant...twenty-five bucks on a $10,000 trade--but not only would it bring in a huge amount of money, it would also dampen the desire of people to treat the stock market like a slot machine, making lots of short term trades.
 
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hislegacy

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I think the best thing to do is to enact a small transaction fee on stock trading--perhaps 1/4% per share. Given that even discount brokers used to charge $6.95 per trade and now charge nothing, a fee of twenty-five cents on a $100 stock would mean that you could trade 25 shares of that stock without paying as much as you used to for trades at the very cheapest brokers.

It would be insignificant...twenty-five bucks on a $10,000 trade--but not only would it bring in a huge amount of money, it would also dampen the desire of people to treat the stock market like a slot machine, making lots of short term trades.

Interesting thought - Have their been studies showing how much this would raise?

An average Daily volume seems to be right around 300 mil. 1/4% would represent about 7.5 million a day / five days a week would be 37.5 million a week. Biden is introducing close to 7 trillion on top of our current budget. it would take 186,666 weeks or 3,589 years to pay it off.

I am sure one of our experts will disagree, but in very simple fashion, that's about the sum of it.
 
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hislegacy

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It would serve the purpose of decreasing volatility and speculation as well.

Did you know that economists are predicting substantial growth with this plan? That offsets some of the cost.

What economist said this please provide the link. Without proof, it just an uniformed opinion.
 
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hislegacy

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It's an interesting time in which we live. The information available is at a greater level than ever before. I have no doubt we can find learned men and women with high degrees writing both pro and con on the issue.

Whether on paper it will work/fail is up to those experts on both sides.

My POV is how the privately owned corporations and wealthy individuals are divested of what they legal possess.

How does the government take, coerce, force, tax compel privately and publicly owned entities and the wealthy to give up their possessions?

The thought seems to be compulsion through taxes. That has the very real potential to backfire when the companies (like Apple) and individuals just move the wealth to a tax haven country. Then what? How do you pay for all the programs?
 
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grasping the after wind

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If the tax rate were to be raised to 100% of everything on everyone the government would still end up in unending debt. When tax rates are lowered government spending increases more than the inflation rate . When tax rates are kept the same ,government spending increases more than the rate of inflation. When taxes or fees or tariffs or whatever kind of government taxation by another name are raised spending increases by even much more than the inflation rate and the amount brought in by the new rates or taxes.
 
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This is a great article that presents the pro's and con's.

It was interesting to note there were only two cons presented:

What Are the Disadvantages of a Wealth Tax?
Not surprisingly, not everyone is quite so sold on the idea...

1. IT WON’T WORK
In recent decades, many nations have tried some form of a wealth tax. Most have reversed course after discovering how difficult it was to measure and enforce. Not all assets are in the form of stocks and bonds, or piles of cash in bags marked with dollar signs. Consistently assessing the value of privately held corporations or investments divided into infinite pieces and funneled through a half-dozen subsidiaries with holdings of something… well, it’s a mess. And what about things like artwork or rare collectibles?

Besides, opponents argue, if you “punish” people for being rich, they’ll simply move to a country that’s nicer to them. They can afford to, after all. This is sometimes called “capital flight,” and we see it happen with big businesses all the time. You want us to pay more taxes? Fine – we’ll set up shop on the remote island of Glutzenberg and do business from there instead. King Wally says we’re welcome anytime.

2. IT’S UNETHICAL AND UNCONSTITUTIONAL
Like a property tax, a wealth tax is a double tax – the government takes its share when the income is made, then again each year after that income has transformed into assets. Opponents argue that in addition to actually discouraging success and investment, it’s simply wrong and “un-American.”

It might also be unconstitutional. Article I, Section 9 of the U.S. Constitution is a list of things that Congress is not allowed to do. The fourth clause says this:

No Capitation, or other direct, Tax shall be laid, unless in Proportion to the Census or enumeration herein before directed to be taken.

The thing about “in proportion to the census” is because the federal government wasn’t expected to tax individuals. The states taxed individuals, and the federal government had the right to expect contributions from the states. The money may have come from individuals, but indirectly. That changed with the passage of the 16th Amendment in the early 20th century. In case you don’t have your Pocket Constitution on you, it says this:

The Congress shall have the power to lay and collect taxes on incomes, from whatever source derived, without apportionment among the several States, and without regard to any census or enumeration.

In other words, it changed the rule from Article I, Section 9. That’s what Amendments are – “edits” to the Constitution which update or alter the fundamental laws on which our nation is theoretically run. But notice the specifics – “taxes on INCOMES.” Not taxes in general.

Now, the thing about constitutional law is that nothing’s ever as simple or straightforward as you and I might expect. But this is enough of a snag that it might make passing a wealth tax tricky.​

gcmmkhgdocv.jpeg


The Old and New Testaments have much to say about the accumulation of "material wealth," and none of it is favorable - when compared to those of his Biblical counterparts, Galbraith's comment is being charitable!

The depths to which the Christian Church has fallen is on full display when its own members have made it their mission to defend the "plight" of the wealthy!
 
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grasping the after wind

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gcmmkhgdocv.jpeg


The Old and New Testaments have much to say about the accumulation of "material wealth," and none of it is favorable - when compared to those of his Biblical counterparts, Galbraith's comment is being charitable!

The depths to which the Christian Church has fallen is on full display when its own members have made it their mission to defend the "plight" of the wealthy!

The Christian church is tasked with loving our neighbor. Every singled one of them, not just the one's that one or the other politically minded ideologues claim are oppressed. "Demonize your neighbor" is not the theme of Christ's ministry on earth.
 
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JimR-OCDS

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The Christian church is tasked with loving our neighbor. Every singled one of them, not just the one's that one or the other politically minded ideologues claim are oppressed. "Demonize your neighbor" is not the theme of Christ's ministry on earth.

I recall in Scripture when Mary washed Jesus feet with her hair and anointed them with oil.

The disciples immediately reacted that the oil could've been sold and the money given to the poor. Jesus rebuked them and said, "the poor you will always have with you."

The point is, Jesus didn't give into using the money for the form of welfare, and neither should we. Whatever Christians give to the poor, must be done out of free will and not forced by the government or even the Church.
 
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hislegacy

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The Christian church is tasked with loving our neighbor. Every singled one of them, not just the one's that one or the other politically minded ideologues claim are oppressed. "Demonize your neighbor" is not the theme of Christ's ministry on earth.

Are we talking about the Christian Church or the government on this thread?

Last I looked it has been determined numerous times that the US is NOT a Christian nation. Why try to hold the nation to Christian standards when it is not a Christian nation?

I agree 100% that the Christian church is tasked with loving our neighbors. How do you connect that with moving wealth from one individual to another?

2 Cor 9:7 7 So let each one give as he purposes in his heart, not grudgingly or of necessity; for God loves a cheerful giver.​
 
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Fantine

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Interesting thought - Have their been studies showing how much this would raise?

An average Daily volume seems to be right around 300 mil. 1/4% would represent about 7.5 million a day / five days a week would be 37.5 million a week. Biden is introducing close to 7 trillion on top of our current budget. it would take 186,666 weeks or 3,589 years to pay it off.

I am sure one of our experts will disagree, but in very simple fashion, that's about the sum of it.

You are assuming that each share costs $1. If the average cost per share was $100, 1/4% would represent $750 million a day or $5.25 billion a week. That would be $273 billion a year, or, over the course of ten years, $2.73 trillion Not bad...

Truthfully, it wouldn't even be felt by most stockholders. 1/4 of 1% is not a lot of money.
 
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hislegacy

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You are assuming that each share costs $1. If the average cost per share was $100, 1/4% would represent $750 million a day or $5.25 billion a week. That would be $273 billion a year, or, over the course of ten years, $2.73 trillion Not bad...

Truthfully, it wouldn't even be felt by most stockholders. 1/4 of 1% is not a lot of money.

No - I am using your assumption based on the volume of the market.

You cite no sources nor links.
 
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Fantine

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There are different proposals. This one would raise $777 billion in 10 years:
Congress wants to tax stock trades. Investors shouldn’t fret.

The 1/4 of 1% tax on each stock's value was proposed back in 2009.
https://www.davemanuel.com/investor-dictionary/stock-transaction-tax/

Look at it this way--you pay sales taxes on every single thing you buy, and possibly excise taxes for cigarettes, alcohol, marijuana, etc. You don't even bat an eye.

And right now, when many brokers don't charge a dime to trade stocks, it would be a perfect time to add a small transaction fee.

There is a transaction fee per share now, so negligible it is almost laughable. It was enacted in 1941.
 
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