Micro and macro evolution explained.

Job 33:6

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What real evidence is there that plants and animals diverged from a common ancestor? Is that an Evolutionary article of faith?

In my opinion, the strongest evidence for evolution is the synchronization of phylogenetic trees of multiple fields of science. For example, the order of fossils in the fossil record matches cladistics based on genetics.
 
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Shemjaza

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I would agree with the idea that the other person is presenting. I agree that in technical terms nobody is going to be able to say that there ever was a first human, but rather a population came to be first, then the term "human" was applied to it.

But if we did define people as individuals with specific genes or a specific group of genes, then at some point in time, one Individual animal would acquire that group of genes before it reached a general population. And that individual could be said to be the first true human. Regardless of what that combination of genes might be.

If we believe that humans exist now but didn't exist in the past, that beginning had to start somewhere. And if we say that this species is defined by X group of genes, then it follows that X group of genes wouldn't necessarily mutate in 100 or 1000 individuals all at once, but rather would come to be at a particular point in time in which a mutation occurred in an individual.
I think if you created an objective measure of genetic traits and developmental benchmarks for "human" and "pre-human" I agree that there would have to be a single individual who first had all the traits.

However, I imagine you would be extremely hard pressed to distinguish this individual from their peers demonstrating that the hard border was totally arbitrary.

(Also, it seems ludicrous that first male example and the first female example devoted separately and reproduced together.)
 
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Job 33:6

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I think if you created an objective measure of genetic traits and developmental benchmarks for "human" and "pre-human" I agree that there would have to be a single individual who first had all the traits.

However, I imagine you would be extremely hard pressed to distinguish this individual from their peers demonstrating that the hard border was totally arbitrary.

(Also, it seems ludicrous that first male example and the first female example devoted separately and reproduced together.)

Yea, I mean, it would be no different than you or I being the first of a new species because we have unique genes that our parents didn't have.

And yea, the first of a species could be male or female and really it's more likely that the first female of this "group" would probably be a daughter or grand daughter or some form of offspring, rather than a sexual marital partner such as would be the case of Adam and Eve. Assuming that it even was a male that came first in this hypothetical genetic group.

In a naturalistic perspective, the difference between "Adam" and Adams parents would be like us to our own parents and it would be a trivial difference.
 
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The IbanezerScrooge

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Did Sagan actually say this?

From the very first sentence in Billions and Billions: Thoughts on Life and Death at the Brink of the Millennium

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Job 33:6

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Hans Blaster

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I didn't find it offensive. I think that its only offensive if perhaps you feel like you can relate to the particular group of Christians that he is referring to.

The "harshness" of his words is a product of the very thing he is describing. Which is most easily described as denial of physical reality by biblical literalists.

The group of Christians Aron is describing are *exactly* the kind often found on this sub-forum arguing against Evolution, with *exactly* their tactics and as far as we can tell their motivations. Gee, I wonder where he found those people???? Could it be on this very site, with some of the same people still haunting this board? Yep. (I'm sure he's encountered many additional others elsewhere.)
 
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