Date of Triumphal Entry

Timtofly said:

Just because 2% rebel does not mean righteousness ceased for the 98%.

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If that’s the case then the 70 weeks in Daniel 9:24 aren’t determined for all the people, correct?

mkgal1 said:

The temple of Herod was an idol - not where God dwelled (that was the argument between Jesus and the 1st century apostate religious leaders). It wasn't the "Father’s House".....it was their house (the apostate religious leaders of the 1st century).

John 2
17His disciples remembered that it is written: “Zeal for Your house will consume Me.”c18On account of this, the Jews demanded, “What sign can You show us to prove Your authority to do these things?”19Jesus answered, “Destroy this temple, and in three days I will raise it up again.”20“This temple took forty-six years to build,” the Jews replied, “and You are going to raise it up in three days?”21But Jesus was speaking about the temple of His body​

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They, like you, could only see the temporal building, when Christ was speaking about something infinitely more important. Their rejection and destruction of Him as the Temple building, and His restoration of it after three days. Do you realize that the Jews and apostate Jewish religious leaders were the builders of the temple?

Mat 21:42-43
(42) Jesus saith unto them, Did ye never read in the scriptures, The stone which the builders rejected, the same is become the head of the corner: this is the Lord's doing, and it is marvellous in our eyes?
(43) Therefore say I unto you, The kingdom of God shall be taken from you, and given to a nation bringing forth the fruits thereof.

What temple did these builders build where they have rejected the stone? Nothing to do with so-called Herod's temple.

See, the temple "REPRESENTS" the body of Saints, as I have already explained. And LIKE YOU, the Premills, the Preterists, and the Jews there THOUGHT Christ was speaking about the literal physical Temple. Dejavu anyone? So if they were wrong, then "you" are wrong also! And they were definitely wrong BECAUSE Scripture tells us that the Temple Christ spoke of was the SPIRITUAL temple of His Body. And just claiming the phrase "Spiritual Temple of His Body" is not in Scripture, does not negate these facts from being true, do they? Because we have to compare Scripture with Scripture in order to come to the truth, not just fall into the snare of Partial Preterism saying it is about Herod Temple and about AD 70, when God did NOT prophecy of Romans, Herod, Titus, or his armies. Not one word. Period. Unless we read them into Scripture by meanings of Josephus. Christ prophesied of something far more "sinister" and deceiving than man's buildings or armies.

Clearly, and without ambiguity, it also speaks of Jerusalem as the city representing the congregation of God. And clearly, they (1st Century Jews) were under the judgment of God, which is WHY Christ was weeping. No? The fall of the city was not only inevitable, it was written! There is no more Holy Temple in Israel, there is no more Holy Jerusalem in Israel, there is no more Covenant with Israel. It's ALL Gone, not an iota of it left. Why? Because they (Jews) knew not the time of their visitation. So how is it some people query, "many inhabitants survived AD70." Here they go again, with the AD 70! This has nothing to do with AD 70, as I've said twenty times already. It has to do with the representation of the Kingdom (Here, Jerusalem) Falling and in three days, Christ rebuild it where the New Testament Congregation NOW represents! As God so inerrantly puts it:

Matthew 21:43-45

• "Therefore say I unto you, The kingdom of God shall be taken from you, and given to a nation bringing forth the fruits thereof.
• And whosoever shall fall on this stone shall be broken: but on whomsoever it shall fall, it will grind him to powder.
• And when the chief priests and Pharisees had heard his parables, they perceived that he spake of them."

Grinding to powder would be the only way a city could be made even with the ground. Let me ask you this... what stone is ground to powder, what stones shall be broken, and are these stones really people? Think about it... WHO is the stone that will break the others? And what nation had the kingdom taken from them in this whole scenario? Was it the Jews in AD 70, or was it the Jews at the cross? Some people make the claim that God took Israel away in AD 70, while scripture (again, and again and again) illustrates that it was by Christ's cross that Israel's kingdom was taken away, ground to powder and nothing left to them. And it was given to the New Testament congregation where she has received authority at Pentecost to start bringing Gospel into the world!

You see, your problem is you seem not to "want" to see the truth. But scripture tells us unambiguously that even the chief Priests and Pharisees understood Christ to be speaking in parables ABOUT THEM. He was speaking spiritually about the stones of the city, and the nation to whom the kingdom would then be given. While you feign that Christ is not speaking these truths about the Temple, stones, houses, nations, Israel, in spiritual applications, the truth is revealed true or false by God's Spirit.

DavidPT said:

Per a position such as Amil, if the thousand years are now, this indicates that the saved can sin during the thousand years and after the thousand years. Per a position such as Premil, it is impossible for the saved to sin during the thousand years and after the thousand years. The question is, since John saw visions concerning both the thousand years and after the thousand years, did he see any of the saved ever sinning during these periods of times? Can anyone produce anything from Revelation 20 where it even hints at any of the saved sinning?

Take Revelation 20:4, for instance. These saints after they have been martyred and resurrected, can they still sin after they come back to life? Revelation 20:9 indicates that the camp of the saints get surrounded. How can that camp not be including any of the martyrs recorded in verse 4? And if it does include them, how can anyone saved, when they are resurrected back to life, sin after they come back to life? They can't. And not only can they not sin then, they also can't sin while they are dead. The only time they can sin is before they physically die, and this would include before they are saved and after they are saved.

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The point about Revelation 20, that no one yet agrees with me about is that none of Adam's flesh survive. All are dead. That is the total end of sin. Not a single transgression in sinful flesh, which only was addressed by the Law will exist. The Law of Moses will not exist, because it was obsolete at the Cross, and only applies to Adam's current corruptible condition. God does not resurrect sin. Why would any one who has read the Bible once, ever declare sin is resurrected? So amil claim the impossible and say no sin exist today, because we are in the Millennium now; instead of fixing the error that sin survives into the Millennium. Well sin still exists, and we have not been in the Millennium for 1991 years. The church is not the Millennium saints. The church is the church saints, that leave this corruptible body for an incorruptible body in Paradise.

God does not have to explain to the church how He is going to have a sin free, procreating, resurrected into incorruptible bodies humanity that can never die. This time on earth is not even for the church. The church is resurrected in Christ. Revelation 20:4 cannot be the resurrection of Jesus Christ, and especially if Amil refuse to even have Christ present on earth for this resurrection. Not sure why they would have Christ resurrected in heaven, because they cannot have Him "not on earth", "on earth", and "not on earth" like a yo-yo going up and down many different times. Recap is a private opinion and against the very Word of God that has Christ on the earth at the battle of Armageddon. John mentions those beheaded, then there are the 144k, that go where Jesus Christ goes. They would be the core "camp of the saints". They are the saints in Revelation 13, that are defeated. They are not killed, they leave Jerusalem with Christ until the 42 months are over. Daniel 9:27, Revelation 12:17, 13:7, 14:1-5. You also have the sheep and the wheat harvested after the Second Coming in the 6th Seal. Matthew 25, along with all the vineyard parables. Jesus Christ is back in the vineyard physically. This time working with all the nations, calling out the sheep and goats, while also planting and gathering the wheat and tares. These are the part of Revelation 20:4

"and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands."

Some of that wheat sown will be those beheaded, while the angels are taking the souls from this time to the point of resurrection the day after Armageddon. That is why there is a resurrection of firstfruits. They are those redeemed directly by Jesus Christ and the witness of the 144k during the Trumpets and Thunders. Only those resurrected and judged by the ones on the thrones will live on earth.

Will there be billions or millions, we are not told. It will be more than those created on the 6th day in Genesis 1. Then there is going to be 1000 years of near perfect living conditions. If you apply the OT prophecies, sometimes nations will be judged briefly for getting out of line. No one seems to be able to differentiate between sinless natures and direct obedience to the rule of the iron rod. There is no sin, but still a law that can be disobeyed. Just without the initiation of sin back into the world. Up to 40 generations, and as the population increases, they will spread out from Jerusalem to the ends of the earth. It will be the last few generations and those farthest from Jerusalem who listen to Satan. Perhaps some older generations as this outer group marches from the edges towards Jerusalem.

If the population is left unchecked from several billion or even almost a billion for 40 generations, what seems like over population now, will be a sand box compared to all the beaches in the world. That is not a fantasy ideology. That is just the mathematical statistics, based on there being 144k male virgin disciples as the firstfruits. 12 disciples set the world on fire in the first century. What will God do with 144k disciples? One thing is clean up the mess left by an apostate church.

grafted branch said:

If that’s the case then the 70 weeks in Daniel 9:24 aren’t determined for all the people, correct?

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Yes it is determined for all people, even those who rebel. They still have sin free lives. They will be consumed by fire, and at that point, it will not matter. They will be in the Lake of fire, by their choice, not to be among the determined any longer.

Is your question about God forcing all humanity to live without being able to freely choose? Eternal righteousness is a choice. Not for those in Paradise. Once in Paradise there is no more ability to choose to reject eternal righteousness. Do you think one can opt out in the NHNE? I am not sure they can, because everything about this life will be erased from human knowledge. No one will know about evil or have the ability to choose evil. If no one can understand the Millennium on earth, how can they be objective about the NHNE?

grafted branch said:

If that’s the case then the 70 weeks in Daniel 9:24 aren’t determined for all the people, correct?

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It wasn't so much about the people's acceptance of Jesus as Messiah (if that's what you're saying) as it was about who would be His kingdom of "priests on earth".

In the New Testament we can see the shift - especially through the book of Hebrews and in 1 Peter.

Remember how Jesus confronted the religious leaders and told them the parable of the Wicked Tenants and it's written that "they knew He was speaking of them"?

Luke 20 BSB <-----Parable of Wicked Tenants

grafted branch said:

we are still committing transgressions

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Based on what, though?

Not the Mosaic Covenant....agreed?

Timtofly said:

Yes it is determined for all people, even those who rebel

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A specific group of people (the Israelites) were in the Mosaic covenant with God. They transgressed that covenant in the very beginning with the Golden Calf (so they were "dead in their sin" until God's promised redemption from their sin).

Moses expected them to not actually be perfect nor keep the law perfectly as he wrote "and when you transgress the law....this is what will happen...." (Deuteronomy 30, I believe). Daniel recognized when the Israelites were experiencing the consequences of their sin when they were exiled in Egypt.

That covenant doesn't apply to us.

TribulationSigns said:

They, like you, could only see the temporal building, when Christ was speaking about something infinitely more important. Their rejection and destruction of Him as the Temple building, and His restoration of it after three days. Do you realize that the Jews and apostate Jewish religious leaders were the builders of the temple?

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They were builders of which temple (two were being contrasted)?

Jesus is what was greater than Herod's temple.



Jesus's temple is made from "living stones" (His faithful) and it is eternal.

keras said:

Those martyrs will be resurrected into mortal bodies.

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.......according to.....?

TribulationSigns said:

They, like you, could only see the temporal building, when Christ was speaking about something infinitely more important

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Then you're clearly misunderstanding me.

TribulationSigns said:

Their rejection and destruction of Him as the Temple building

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They didn't "destroy Jesus". That's the whole point of His Resurrection.

TribulationSigns said:

So if they were wrong, then "you" are wrong also!

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This is a premature (and false) accusation because it is based on something not understood about me and my beliefs (a presumption).

I've never argued that the physical Temple that Herod built was the only Temple.....I've actually asserted exactly the opposite.

TribulationSigns said:

And LIKE YOU, the Premills, the Preterists, and the Jews there THOUGHT Christ was speaking about the literal physical Temple

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No....I've been referring to two different temples - one was an idol....Jesus was the True Temple.

I repeat this often....but ALL Christians are preterists. We wouldn't identify as such ("Christians") if we didn't believe - at least some - of the Messianic prophecies were fulfilled in Jesus.

Jesus, Himself, was a preterist (preterists believe Jesus fulfilled the Messianic prophecies)....

keras said:

But the Ten Commandments do. And Jesus promoted and expanded on each of them.

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Jesus didn't "expand on them".....He was contrasting Himself (as the "mediator of a better covenant ") to Moses .

Timtofly said:

Yes it is determined for all people

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The 70 weeks were determined specifically for "Daniel's people" the biblical text says.

Timtofly said:

Establishing and confirming are technically not the same thing. And no one is denying what Jesus did as the Messiah, so you do not have to keep using that as proof. Did the OT church know Jesus as the man who died on the Cross? Was that an established knowledge?

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Earlier I asked if English is your primary language or if you feel more comfortable speaking a different language. I didn't ask that as a criticism.....but your posts are difficult for me to follow.

For instance....in this post...when you write, "no one is denying what Jesus did as the Messiah, so you do not have to keep using that as proof"......what are you referring to specifically that I don't need to use as "proof".....and proof of what? I'm just having a difficult time following what your point is.

And....feel free to clarify your distinction between "confirmed" and "established". The new covenant wasn't "established" with Jesus.....because it's a fulfillment of previous promises, oaths, covenants already made (with Adam and Eve; Abraham; David).

TribulationSigns said:

You see, your problem is you seem not to "want" to see the truth. But scripture tells us unambiguously that even the chief Priests and Pharisees understood Christ to be speaking in parables ABOUT THEM.

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Apparently you've not even been reading my posts (even though you criticized me for not reading your 21 page article you shared). Are my posts too much for you to read? I gave you my reason for not reading your extrabiblical verbose article (recovering from a stroke).....so what's your reason for not reading my posts but leaping to conclusions about what I think or what I want (making presumptions)?