Date of Triumphal Entry

mkgal1

His perfect way sets me free. 2 Samuel 22:33
Supporter
Jun 22, 2007
27,339
7,349
California
✟551,233.00
Faith
Anglican
Marital Status
Married
How is Jesus Christ confirming at the first Advent?
Jesus fulfilled all that was written about Him (Messiah)....the human mediator between God and humanity........seed of David......son of Abraham....to take over David's throne and fulfill the promise made to Abraham.....and to bring in the everlasting covenant of peace.

Jesus explained all this to His disciples on the road to Emmaus when they expressed their sorrow because "they had hoped He was going to redeem Israel" because that's tied together with those promises.

The thing is....He did redeem Israel....and the world....just not in the presupposed way. Why are people still anticipating Him to do what He's already accomplished? In some streams of Christianity, no less. Why are people that identify as "Christians" arguing to diminish His power, glory, and honor?
 
Upvote 0

mkgal1

His perfect way sets me free. 2 Samuel 22:33
Supporter
Jun 22, 2007
27,339
7,349
California
✟551,233.00
Faith
Anglican
Marital Status
Married
I have never understood the logic as to why some argue that is meaning Jesus' baptism, and that this is the first thing on the list they have Jesus fulfilling
Peter called it "the beginning when God anointed Jesus" as Luke recorded in Acts 10:36-38.

Acts 10:36-38:
36He has sent this message to the people of Israel, proclaiming the gospel of peace through Jesus Christ, who is Lord of all.37You yourselves know what has happened throughout Judea, beginning in Galilee with the baptism that John proclaimed: 38how God anointed Jesus of Nazareth with the Holy Spirit and with power.
 
Last edited:
Upvote 0

grafted branch

Well-Known Member
Supporter
Feb 21, 2019
1,526
246
46
Washington
✟238,025.00
Country
United States
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Married
Why does the text say 70 weeks are determined, to finish the transgression, unless it actually means that? A lot of interpretations have everything in that verse fulfilled by the middle of the 70th week.
I also think it is unconvincing if an interpretation has everything fulfilled in the middle of the week. I can see where Christ could’ve satisfied all the clauses in Daniel 9:24 at his first advent but again it’s fulfilled in the middle of the week.

I think everyone would agree that the price for transgressions against the law was paid for at the cross, but I also think everyone would agree that we are still committing transgressions, even though they have been paid for.
 
Upvote 0

grafted branch

Well-Known Member
Supporter
Feb 21, 2019
1,526
246
46
Washington
✟238,025.00
Country
United States
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Married
What people who claim spiritual application are essentially doing is trying to enforce earthly physical sin and flesh on those in Paradise. That was not the result of the Cross. Those who deny the Millennial reign of Christ deny that those 6 conditions will ever be physical and relate to physical earth.
What about “to bring in everlasting righteousness”? That can’t happen on earth during the millennium, in fact that could only happen in the new heaven-new earth; which means it could never happen on this present earth that will be burned up.

Also if your waiting for a physical conformation of everlasting righteousness then you will have to wait forever because there will always be a chance that it could end. If everlasting righteousness is confirmed spiritually then it’s a matter of faith in Christ.
 
Upvote 0

TribulationSigns

Well-Known Member
Supporter
Dec 19, 2017
3,485
1,045
Colorado
✟414,458.00
Country
United States
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Private
Politics
US-Others
Do you think the new covenant will expire after the week?

No. Allow me to explain for a moment.

The Promise "IS" the New Covenant, a last will and Testament leaving an inheritance far greater than a plot of dirt in the Middle East. And that is what Old Covenant Israel (and her cousin, Premills) couldn't grasp. That they would never enter the promised land by law, but by Grace aquired in the New Testament of Christ. As they still do not grasp to this very day.

Gal 3:16-18
(16) Now to Abraham and his seed were the promises made. He saith not, And to seeds, as of many; but as of one, And to thy seed, which is Christ.
(17) And this I say, that the covenant, that was confirmed before of God in Christ, the law, which was four hundred and thirty years after, cannot disannul, that it should make the promise of none effect.
(18) For if the inheritance be of the law, it is no more of promise: but God gave it to Abraham by promise.

In theology, a Testament is a Covenant or oath. Yes, I know some people define a Covenant as an "agreement." And indeed, by implication, it can be a two-way promise such as in "an agreement." But that is not the actual definition. The definition of Covenant is an Oath, or Promise. Likewise, a Biblical Testament is a Promise or Oath. Even today in our society a "will" is a Testament or "Promissory" note of action after the death of the Covenant maker or Testator. The Covenant or "PROMISE" that God made with Abraham is a sort of last will and Testament bequeathing the inheritance of the promised land. This Covenant was a Testament of God-given its strength by the death of Christ. (not baptism as some claimed).

Hebrews 13:20-21
  • "Now the God of peace, that brought again from the dead our Lord Jesus, that great shepherd of the sheep, through the blood of the everlasting Covenant,
  • Make you perfect in every good work to do his will, working in you that which is wellpleasing in his sight, through Jesus Christ; to whom be glory for ever and ever. Amen."
This everlasting Covenant "IS" the eternal Testament. So I just don't want there to be any misunderstanding of what I believe the Covenant/Testament is, and what it is all about. The Old Covenant/Testament saints were saved just like we are, and that is why scripture says Christ was slain "from the foundation of the world." Because the blood of His Testament bequeathing an inheritance to His people reaches back to before the cross, to cover all Old Testament saints. Remember my explanation in another post about Zechariah 14 where the Living Water (Spirit) from forth to the Former Sea (before the Cross) and the Hinder Sea (after the Cross). Being confirmed or fulfilled by His death on the cross.

Revelation 13:8
  • " And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him, whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world."

It indeed is a Testament. And a blood Covenant/Testament is a promise or oath that is only of force after one is dead. Not Baptism. For example, the Old Testament sacrifices were a blood Covenant/Testament testifying to and "prefiguring" Christ. He is the Messiah prophesied to strengthen or fulfill it. Again:

Hebrews 9:17-18
  • "For a testament is of force after men are dead: otherwise it is of no strength at all while the testator liveth.
  • Whereupon neither the First Testament was dedicated without blood."
There is Messiah "Giving Strength" to the Covenant for many as prophesied in Daniel 9. The Hebrew word there for "confirm" in Daniel 9 is actually the word meaning "STRENGTHEN" or Make Strong. The first (Old) Testament/Covenant, or promise, made to the saints was with blood sacrifice signifying that it would be fulfilled or given strength in Christ. For example, the old was imperfect, and only a "figure" looking forward to Christ. That's why Scripture says the Old Covenant had to pass away, because when the "true" comes, the old prefiguring it cannot remain. By Christ's blood giving strength or force to the Testament making it new, we are no longer condemned by Old Testament law. The Old Testament shadow passes away.

Hebrews 10:1
  • "For the law having a shadow of good things to come, and not the very image of the things, can never with those sacrifices which they offered year by year continually make the comers thereunto perfect."
Christ would be the one who would come to strengthen, confirm, give efficacy to the Testament. It was "HE" who Daniel prophesied of doing exactly this! Not antichrist and his so-called 7 years peace agreement like premills falsely teach:

Daniel 9:26-27
  • "And after threescore and two weeks shall Messiah be cut off, but not for himself: and the people of the prince that shall come shall destroy the city and the sanctuary; and the end thereof shall be with a flood, and unto the end of the war desolations are determined.
  • And he shall confirm (MAKE STRONG) the Covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate."
Confirming [gabar], or "literally" strengthening the Covenant for many. This is precisely what Messiah did when He was cut off after 69 weeks, and it is exactly what Hebrews chapter 9 says (not implies) about Messiah/Christ giving the Covenant/Testament strength by His shed blood.

I just think these points needed to be clarified. So here is the answer to your question:

The blood of the everlasting Covenant is eternal, from Abel to the last elect on earth. It was there for Abel, Noah, Abraham and Peter, etc. Positionally Christ is the Lamb slain from before the foundation of the world, in that sense. We all know this. But this final week of the prophecy of Daniel obviously concerns the "New Testament Period Only," not the lifespan of all those under the Everlasting Covenant. If it wasn't, it would say Christ confirmed the Covenant for the full 70 weeks for His people, not only this final week. Clearly, this "Final" week is a specific prophesy of a time period. Not the period of our salvation, which obviously extends well beyond this week into eternity. The context is time:

1.) Seven weeks (7)
2.) Threescore and two weeks (62)
3.) One week equals 70 weeks.

God's not prophesying about eternity here, He's talking about time, and what is determined to happen in this time period. Selah!

God deemed this time period of this covenant week to last only "this period," in the middle of which sacrifice and offering will cease. Let me say it again for emphasis, because people like to gloss over this part. Sacrifice and offering cease in the middle of this Covenant week after Christ's death that confirmed the week! Again... Christ confirmed the covenant when He went to the cross. This began the one week, but in the midst of THIS week, Christ will cause the sacrifice and oblation to cease. Get it? Therefore, this has NOTHING to do with Jewish animal sacrifice. This has to do with Christ's ceasing of NECESSITY for salvation 'after' He has secured all of His Saints first (Revelation 7:1-4). So it actually will be the midst of the Covenant week (whole New Testament period). Nothing to do with physical animal sacrifice and city in 70AD.
 
Last edited:
Upvote 0

Christian Gedge

Well-Known Member
Nov 29, 2017
1,214
1,361
Waikato
Visit site
✟227,010.00
Country
New Zealand
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
I looked at chapters 10 and 14. You have the first day of the 70th week as 1 Nisan AD 27 and it also being the day in John 1:29 where John the Baptist says behold the Lamb of God, which taketh away the sin of the world.

Jesus’s baptism in Mark 1:9-13 has him immediately being driven into the wilderness after he is baptized. Jesus’s baptism had to have taken place at least 40 days prior to 1 Nisan AD 27. That puts Jesus’s baptism into the 69th week which I personally would agree with. But that also prevents all 6 clauses in Daniel 9:24 from happening in the 70th week if “to anoint the most Holy” is referring to Jesus’s baptism.

In chapter 10 you have an explanation of “to anoint the most Holy” which I mostly agree with but it has Jesus’s baptism in the 70th week. So the Pentecost event is a possibility for the completion of “to anoint the most Holy” on Daniels people, which would put the completion of all 6 clauses in the 70th week. But if Jesus’s baptism is used as part of the anointing then I’m not seeing how that event can fit into the 70th week.

I have not studied prophetic timelines so I can’t even begin to submit a reason for placing the first day of the 70th week as the day Jesus started to preach other than my understanding of Daniel 12:11-12. So I see I’m going to have to take a closer look at how prophetic dates are determined. The one thing I’m still not convinced of is Jesus’s baptism being part of the confirming of the covenant in Daniel 9:27 or happening in the 70th week.

The Gospel of John describes a scene where John the Baptist saw Jesus coming toward him and he made the following statement. Yes, this day was the 1st of Nisan, AD27.
“Look, the Lamb of God, who takes away the sin of the world! This is the one I meant when I said, ‘A man who comes after me has surpassed me because he was before me.’ I myself did not know him, but the reason I came baptizing with water was that he might be revealed to Israel.” Then John gave this testimony: “I saw the Spirit come down from heaven as a dove and remain on him. And I myself did not know him, but the one who sent me to baptize with water told me, ‘The man on whom you see the Spirit come down and remain is the one.” (John 1:29-34)

At first sight, it seems the writer was describing the actual baptism itself, as per Mark’s account. However, the next few days finds Jesus choosing his disciples – not going into the wilderness as the Synoptics relate it. So, this scene is a ‘revisit’ - a 'recollection'. It is Jesus coming out of the wilderness, walking past John, at about Passover season, some months following his actual baptism. So then, the Gospel of John is not recording the baptism event directly, but is recording John Bap’s testimony of that event. In other words, John Bap. sees Jesus returning, and calls out, "This is the man I baptised several months ago! This is the man the dove descended upon!"

So, is the Gospel of John is not recording the actual baptism event; he is recording an occasion when Jesus revisited the same place on his way back from the wilderness. This explanation also helps reconcile some of the perceived differences between John and the Synoptic Gospels.

See page 68. I'll try to load it here.
 
Last edited:
Upvote 0

grafted branch

Well-Known Member
Supporter
Feb 21, 2019
1,526
246
46
Washington
✟238,025.00
Country
United States
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Married
Sacrifice and offering cease in the middle of this Covenant week after Christ's death that confirmed the week! Again... Christ confirmed the covenant when He went to the cross. This began the one week, but in the midst of THIS week, Christ will cause the sacrifice and oblation to cease. Get it?
I'm not sure I completely get it. Would you say we are currently in the last week?
 
Upvote 0

grafted branch

Well-Known Member
Supporter
Feb 21, 2019
1,526
246
46
Washington
✟238,025.00
Country
United States
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Married
At first sight, it seems the writer was describing the actual baptism itself, as per Mark’s account. However, the next few days finds Jesus choosing his disciples – not going into the wilderness as the Synoptics relate it. So, this scene is a ‘revisit’ - a 'recollection'. It is Jesus coming out of the wilderness, walking past John, at about Passover season, some months following his actual baptism. So then, the Gospel of John is not recording the baptism event directly, but is recording John Bap’s testimony of that event. In other words, John Bap. sees Jesus returning, and calls out, "This is the man I baptised several months ago! This is the man the dove descended upon!"

So, is the Gospel of John is not recording the actual baptism event; he is recording an occasion when Jesus revisited the same place on his way back from the wilderness. This explanation also helps reconcile some of the perceived differences between John and the Synoptic Gospels.
Thanks for the explanation.

I’ve been looking through other parts of the book and I like the approach of laying the 7 year pattern over the historical events in the Bible. This defiantly gives credence to this approach when multiple events line up; you’ve got the wheels turning in my head now.

I would like to ask about Gideon, in chapter 5 you show a chart on page 34 with his name but it doesn’t show much else about him. I have thought for some time that the account of Gideon has multiple connections to eschatology.

For example Gideon puts the fleece down, it gets wet by the dew and Gideon is able to measure it by wringing it into a bowl. Next the dew that’s on the ground isn’t measured or counted. This appears to be related to the two time periods prior to the cross and after the cross; and also the fact that the 144,000 can be counted while the Gentiles are not counted.

Also the dream of the barley cake rolling into the Midian camp is related to the stone that smote the image in Daniel 2.

My question is when Gideon and the 300 blow the trumpets would this line up with a Jubilee or only a Sabbath year?
 
Upvote 0

mkgal1

His perfect way sets me free. 2 Samuel 22:33
Supporter
Jun 22, 2007
27,339
7,349
California
✟551,233.00
Faith
Anglican
Marital Status
Married
Nothing to do with physical animal sacrifice and city in 70AD.
I wouldn't say "nothing to do with" (but I realize you're aware we disagree on this one point).

In my belief.....the destruction of the ancient Israelite's idol (their Temple built by Herod) was a sign that Jesus was the true Temple....the actual "place" where "heaven" (God's domain) and "earth" (humanity) dwell together. The Temple and its Mosaic religious system had its power stripped from it and it died.....buried in the rubble and never resurrected. The kingdom is now represented by those that believe in Jesus's Resurrection power.
 
  • Winner
Reactions: Lost4words
Upvote 0
This site stays free and accessible to all because of donations from people like you.
Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
- Dan Doughty and Team Christian Forums

TribulationSigns

Well-Known Member
Supporter
Dec 19, 2017
3,485
1,045
Colorado
✟414,458.00
Country
United States
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Private
Politics
US-Others
I wouldn't say "nothing to do with" (but I realize you're aware we disagree on this one point).

I am absolutely positive that the Scripture, especially Daniel 9:26-27 does not support ANY 70 A.D. theory no matter how hard they try.

In my belief.....the destruction of the ancient Israelite's idol (their Temple built by Herod) was a sign that Jesus was the true Temple....the actual "place" where "heaven" (God's domain) and "earth" (humanity) dwell together. The Temple and its Mosaic religious system had its power stripped from it and it died.....buried in the rubble and never resurrected. The kingdom is now represented by those that believe in Jesus's Resurrection power.

I do not care about anyone's personal beliefs. I am more interested in the Scripture they are supposed to show to support their private interpretations. Or else it's just speculation and private interpretation.

I have shown the Scripture several times that the Old Testament congregation fell when they cut off the Messiah the Prince. This was the end of the Old Testament Covenant and the beginning of the New Testament Covenant. "Destroy this temple and in three days I will rebuild it" obviously has NOTHING to do with Herod Temple (nor 70 A.D.) It is Christ's body that represents His congregation. This is where the kingdom representative was taken from. Not physical building.

You seem to forget that the Jewish Physical temple in 70A.D. was no longer holy since the Cross (the veil rented) anyway in order to be fulfilled the prophecy.
 
Last edited:
Upvote 0

Timtofly

Well-Known Member
Jun 29, 2020
9,282
568
56
Mount Morris
✟123,523.00
Country
United States
Faith
Baptist
Marital Status
Married
Jesus fulfilled all that was written about Him (Messiah)....the human mediator between God and humanity........seed of David......son of Abraham....to take over David's throne and fulfill the promise made to Abraham.....and to bring in the everlasting covenant of peace.

Jesus explained all this to His disciples on the road to Emmaus when they expressed their sorrow because "they had hoped He was going to redeem Israel" because that's tied together with those promises.

The thing is....He did redeem Israel....and the world....just not in the presupposed way. Why are people still anticipating Him to do what He's already accomplished? In some streams of Christianity, no less. Why are people that identify as "Christians" arguing to diminish His power, glory, and honor?
Establishing and confirming are technically not the same thing. And no one is denying what Jesus did as the Messiah, so you do not have to keep using that as proof. Did the OT church know Jesus as the man who died on the Cross? Was that an established knowledge?
 
Upvote 0

Timtofly

Well-Known Member
Jun 29, 2020
9,282
568
56
Mount Morris
✟123,523.00
Country
United States
Faith
Baptist
Marital Status
Married
What about “to bring in everlasting righteousness”? That can’t happen on earth during the millennium, in fact that could only happen in the new heaven-new earth; which means it could never happen on this present earth that will be burned up.

Also if your waiting for a physical conformation of everlasting righteousness then you will have to wait forever because there will always be a chance that it could end. If everlasting righteousness is confirmed spiritually then it’s a matter of faith in Christ.
How do you know it cannot happen during the Millennium? Sounds like private opinion, not based on Biblical fact. Especially because of Daniel 9 it will happen, else God and Gabriel lied to Daniel. Those who think it is already a physical, earthly fact are just as decieved. Saying it is spiritual, is the same as calling it a scientific theory. Sounds good on paper.
 
  • Agree
Reactions: keras
Upvote 0

grafted branch

Well-Known Member
Supporter
Feb 21, 2019
1,526
246
46
Washington
✟238,025.00
Country
United States
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Married
Ok, got it. So I have another question …
God deemed this time period of this covenant week to last only "this period," in the middle of which sacrifice and offering will cease.
Could someone determine the day that Christ causes the sacrifice and oblation cease? If so then would it be possible to know the day that this covenant week ends by counting the days between the cross and oblation ceasing and multiplying it by 2?
 
Upvote 0
This site stays free and accessible to all because of donations from people like you.
Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
- Dan Doughty and Team Christian Forums

grafted branch

Well-Known Member
Supporter
Feb 21, 2019
1,526
246
46
Washington
✟238,025.00
Country
United States
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Married
How do you know it cannot happen during the Millennium? Sounds like private opinion, not based on Biblical fact. Especially because of Daniel 9 it will happen, else God and Gabriel lied to Daniel. Those who think it is already a physical, earthly fact are just as decieved. Saying it is spiritual, is the same as calling it a scientific theory. Sounds good on paper.
Because Revelation 20:8 has Satan being loosed after the millennium and he deceives the nations. So the righteousness in the millennium couldn’t be everlasting, it only last for 1,000 years.
 
Upvote 0

keras

Writer of studies on Bible prophecy
Feb 7, 2013
13,560
2,480
82
Thames, New Zealand
Visit site
✟290,691.00
Country
New Zealand
Faith
Pentecostal
Marital Status
Married
God’s 7000 year plan for the earth’s inhabitants is now approaching the 6000 year point. There were 4000 years from Adam to the Triumphant entry of King Jesus into Jerusalem, His Death and Resurrection.

Luke 13:32 Listen, today and tomorrow, I shall be driving out demons and working cures and on the third day, I shall attain My goal.
This must be a prophecy, as in the next verse Jesus says;

Luke 13:33 However, I must go on My way this day, tomorrow and the next, then meet My death in Jerusalem.

A matching prophecy is in Hosea 6:2 After two days He will revive us, on the third, He will restore us, that we may live in His presence. So, there are two “days” that the people of the world must wait until Jesus Returns to His Kingdom and restores us. Just before that, His people are ‘revived ‘ by going to live in the holy Land. Ezekiel 34:11-31

In Psalms 90:4 and 2 Peter 3:8 A thousand years are as one day in the Lords sight.

As to where Jesus is now, we can’t know what is happening in the heavenly realms, but, there are many instances of Jesus appearing to people who cry out to Him, He promises to be with us spiritually and He performs miraculous healings.

John 5:17 My Father is always at work, to this very day and I too am working.

John 14:23 Anyone who loves Me will heed what I say.... we will come to him and make our dwelling with him.

Matthew 28:20 ... Observe all that I have commanded you and I will be with you always, to the end of time.

We have five possible ways of discerning the year when the Lord will appear in His glory and commence His Millennial reign:
  1. Two thousand years from 29/30 CE, Entry as King, His Death and Resurrection. .
  2. The 7th year of the Sabbath year cycle falls on 2029/30 CE.
  3. 2030 is the 40th Jubilee year from 70 CE.
4. Ezekiel 4:6..40 year exile decreed for Judah. Multiplied by 7x7 – Leviticus 26:23 & 27 and confirmed by Isaiah 40:2. Equals 1960 years. From 70 CE + 1960 = 2030 The Return of the Jewish King and of all the world.
5. Logic: The world staggers on in its apostate and wicked ways. The many prophesied events still to occur before His Return must take place.


Isaiah 46:10, Amos 3:7 and Revelation 1:1, state that the Lord reveals His plans to His servants.
It follows, therefore, that we, as His servants, by diligently searching His word, can find out and be warned of dramatic future events, to happen before the Return.
 
Upvote 0

Timtofly

Well-Known Member
Jun 29, 2020
9,282
568
56
Mount Morris
✟123,523.00
Country
United States
Faith
Baptist
Marital Status
Married
Because Revelation 20:8 has Satan being loosed after the millennium and he deceives the nations. So the righteousness in the millennium couldn’t be everlasting, it only last for 1,000 years.
Just because 2% rebel does not mean righteousness ceased for the 98%.
 
  • Like
Reactions: keras
Upvote 0

mkgal1

His perfect way sets me free. 2 Samuel 22:33
Supporter
Jun 22, 2007
27,339
7,349
California
✟551,233.00
Faith
Anglican
Marital Status
Married
I do not care about anyone's personal beliefs. I am more interested in the Scripture they are supposed to show to support their private interpretations. Or else it's just speculation and private interpretation
The temple of Herod was an idol - not where God dwelled (that was the argument between Jesus and the 1st century apostate religious leaders). It wasn't the "Father’s House".....it was their house (the apostate religious leaders of the 1st century).

John 2
17His disciples remembered that it is written: “Zeal for Your house will consume Me.”c18On account of this, the Jews demanded, “What sign can You show us to prove Your authority to do these things?”19Jesus answered, “Destroy this temple, and in three days I will raise it up again.”20“This temple took forty-six years to build,” the Jews replied, “and You are going to raise it up in three days?”21But Jesus was speaking about the temple of His body
 
Upvote 0
This site stays free and accessible to all because of donations from people like you.
Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
- Dan Doughty and Team Christian Forums

DavidPT

Well-Known Member
Sep 26, 2016
8,601
2,106
Texas
✟196,410.00
Country
United States
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
Just because 2% rebel does not mean righteousness ceased for the 98%.

Per a position such as Amil, if the thousand years are now, this indicates that the saved can sin during the thousand years and after the thousand years. Per a position such as Premil, it is impossible for the saved to sin during the thousand years and after the thousand years. The question is, since John saw visions concerning both the thousand years and after the thousand years, did he see any of the saved ever sinning during these periods of times? Can anyone produce anything from Revelation 20 where it even hints at any of the saved sinning?

Take Revelation 20:4, for instance. These saints after they have been martyred and resurrected, can they still sin after they come back to life? Revelation 20:9 indicates that the camp of the saints get surrounded. How can that camp not be including any of the martyrs recorded in verse 4? And if it does include them, how can anyone saved, when they are resurrected back to life, sin after they come back to life? They can't. And not only can they not sin then, they also can't sin while they are dead. The only time they can sin is before they physically die, and this would include before they are saved and after they are saved.
 
Upvote 0