About Sabbath

BobRyan said:

Obviously because John does not do it. That is not difficult at all when we see what Rev 21 actually says.

you are still trying to drag in the mix

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I didn't drag it in. I noted it. And I see what John and Peter both say quite clearly and agree with them completely. They don't match what Isaiah says on a number of points. So you then need to explain if you want to drag Isaiah into them, not the other way around.

even though you freely admit that the mix you find in:

• Isaiah 14 does not mean Lucifer was ever the king of Tyre and you freely admit to
  
• the mix you find Ezek 28 even though you know that the king of Babylon was "not created perfect" and was not "the covering cherub" in heaven that Lucifer was.
  
• And we see the mix in Ps 22 where it cannot be said that all David's bones were ever "out of joint" or that David was ever pierced in the side, hands and feet etc.

You already admit to seeing this mix and then camp out on Is 65 (not even 66) as if the entire concept was "news"?

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I camp out on what the NT says about that period, and note it does not agree with Isaiah, so there is something else going on in Isaiah. And I am not just bringing in 65, but 66 as well. Levites, Israelites being brought by the nations to Jerusalem, when per Adventists they come down with the city, the new moon, which Adventists do not assemble on, etc. all appear in 66. And 65 uses the same phrase.

Not being "news" does not mean you don't have to explain why you try to drag some elements to John, and not others.

That would be like saying "no fact at all can be known from the book of Revelation until all its symbols are understood"

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Or it would be like you saying to spell out what you mean by the "mix" in this case like you did in all the others.

Spell out what both streams meant, and how you know what is in each. And while you are at it you might look at the other uses of heaven and earth in Isaiah.

tall73: Why didn't you put the Levites and the death and the sinners into John's new heavens and new earth

BobRyan said:

Obviously because John does not do it.

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Nor did he put the Sabbath and new moon in, but you put it in.

Strong in Him said:

I choose to see God in all things, dedicate all things, and work, to God and do even the smallest and most mundane things as best I can for him - .

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Pretty much what all Christians say on both sides of the Sabbath vs Sunday topic.

Strong in Him said:

In your view.
If a Christian has the Holy Spirit in them, if they are called by God to do what they do and/or are using gifts that he has given them, if they believe they are doing their work for the Lord, and especially if they pray before/during their work - how can that work said to be "worldly"?

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Not "worldly" but secular "leaf blowing" as opposed to sacred "Bible Study". One can be done in a church service dedicated to worship - and one cannot. Two entirely different kinds of work no matter how dedicate the Christian is using that leaf blower.

Strong in Him said:

It is the presence of the Holy Spirit and the dedicating of things to God that makes something sacred.

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Well no matter how many times one might want to say "I dedicate my leaf blowing to God" they cannot do it in a church service, nor can they hammer some boards to make a bench in the middle of a church service no matter how often they say they are dedicating their hammering. Not even if the Christian doing it intends to gift that bench to the church.

I don't see this as being at all that difficult for the reader to understand or get the point without any difficulty at all.

BobRyan said:

Well no matter how many times one might want to say "I dedicate my leaf blowing to God" they cannot do it in a church service,

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Like I said; something does not have to be done in a service of worship for it to be holy or for God's glory.

You either don't understand, or don't agree, with that.

BobRyan said:

I don't see this as being at all that difficult for the reader to understand or get the point without any difficulty at all.

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If something that can be done in a service of worship = holy work, done for God, and something that cannot be done inside a church building in a service of worship = secular and nothing to do with God - the difference, and definition, is quite clear to see.

But I am saying that that is not the case.
If a Christian who has God's Holy Spirit in them is doing something, that makes it holy. Holy means set aside; dedicated to and for God.
In the last few chapters of Exodus, God told Moses how to make the tabernacle out of wood, overlay it with gold, make furniture for the temple and even told him what colour curtains to make. All this was to be done according to the plan that was revealed on the holy mountain, Exodus 26:30. The tabernacle was holy - and it contained "the most holy place". This was so holy that only certain people could go there, yet it had to be made from wood, by men like everything else. All Aaron's garments, which were most sacred had to be made by men. Moses was even given instructions for making sacred anointing oil, and incense and the ingredients to use.
Are you saying that the making of all these things would have been "secular work", even though it was the Lord who gave skills to the craftsmen to be able to make them, Exodus 31:1-11?
Are you saying that if they did not sing and pray while they were working and Moses did not preach to them, they were not "in a service of worship", and so their work - ordered and appointed by God, who gave the skill, the means and the materials, and dedicated to him - was not holy?

I feel sorry for you if you compartmentalise your life into "work for God" and "secular work, not for God". Perhaps you haven't realised that God wants to be IN, and a part of, everything you do. Perhaps you think that he only cares about the "religious" parts of your life - singing, praying and attending a worship service - and not in your everyday work and life.
Jesus said "if you abide (live) in me, I will abide in you". He doesn't just want to live in the tidy front room of our life, but in all of it.

Strong in Him said:

Like I said; something does not have to be done in a service of worship for it to be holy or for God's glory.

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Well we agree that it can always be done to the glory of God as we do all things.

But leaf blowing is not "holy" so it is not a sin or sacrilege for someone to interrupt your leaf blowing nor an infringement on your religious rights to ask you not to do it at certain times or on certain days.

Using your words here "You either don't understand, or don't agree, with that." - clearly I show in my response here where I agree and where I do not agree. And I think it is very easy for readers of this thread to get this point.

Strong in Him said:

If something that can be done in a service of worship = holy work, done for God, and something that cannot be done inside a church building in a service of worship = secular and nothing to do with God - the difference, and definition, is quite clear to see.

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All things can be done to the glory of God - including sorting the garbage so we can recycle the glass and cans. But we don't do that in the middle of a church service. That would not glorify God.

Strong in Him said:

But I am saying that that is not the case.

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So then we may differ there.

Strong in Him said:

If a Christian who has God's Holy Spirit in them is doing something, that makes it holy.

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Not true. No matter how much one says they are a Christian they cannot sort garbage in the middle of a church service and claim that it is holy since they are a Christian.

"Secular" does not mean "ungodly" - it means that it is not appropriate for a sacred service.

Again - an easy and obvious point for this thread and I think the readers of this will have no difficulty with it.

tall73 said:

tall73: Why didn't you put the Levites and the death and the sinners into John's new heavens and new earth

Nor did he put the Sabbath and new moon in, but you put it in.

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Hint: I did not write Isaiah 66:23 and John does not say "delete whatever Isaiah said about the Sabbath and the New Earth".. John's text gives us details so also does Isaiah 66:22-23 - I was not expecting John to have to repeat everything Isaiah said in order for Isaiah's text to still be part of the Bible, inspired and true -- were you thinking that???

I don't see how this is even a little difficult.

When Isaiah said
"from Sabbath to Sabbath shall all mankind come before Me to worship" Is 66:23 he makes an easy and obvious statement and so far even you are not questioning it - you seem to center all your time in Isaiah 65.

tall73 said:

I didn't drag it in. I noted it. And I see what John and Peter both say quite clearly and agree with them completely.

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Peter says "rightesouness dwells" in the new heaven and new earth that we look forward to in the future.

I don't see how that is even a little confusing when we note what Isaiah says about that in Is 66:23

Same with John in Rev 21:1 as he mentions that same new heaven and new Earth that we see in Is 66:23

"from Sabbath to Sabbath shall all mankind come before Me to worship" Is 66:23

22 “For just as the new heavens and the new earth,
Which I make, will endure before Me,” declares the Lord,
“So will your descendants and your name endure.
23 And it shall be from new moon to new moon
And from Sabbath to Sabbath,
All mankind will come to bow down before Me,” says the Lord.


" Then I saw a new heaven and a new earth; for the first heaven and the first earth passed away, and there is no longer any sea." Rev 21:1

13 But according to His promise we are looking for new heavens and a new earth, in which righteousness dwells." 2 Pet 3:13

Here again - it does not appear to even "a little" confusing.

tall73 said:

I camp out on what the NT says about that period, and note it does not agree with Isaiah,

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Nothing in the NT disagrees with Is 66:22-23. As far as I know - even you have not tried to get that part to disagree. You keep going to Is 65 for "disagreement" between NT and OT - not Is 66:22-23.

BobRyan said:

"Secular" does not mean "ungodly" - it means that it is not appropriate for a sacred service.

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Secular is the opposite of sacred, or holy - of the world.

BobRyan said:

Again - an easy and obvious point for this thread and I think the readers of this will have no difficulty with it.

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Well there's nothing more to say then.
I leave you to your own beliefs, and the readers of this thread to decide what they think.

FWIW, the OP was asking for help on this subject. I don't think SDA's can exactly offer unbiased help; I just hope the OP's not too confused.

tall73 said:

The rest in the passage is not the recurring 7th day Sabbath given as a sign to Israel. Ellen White knew it, and stated what it was. It is the rest of faith, of grace, and it is resting in Him now and in the life to come. Chrysostom knew it too.Now we all agree Ellen White thought you had to keep the Sabbath. But she at least knew what the passage was saying, as do the SDA Bible commentary authors. Yes, they rebelled in many ways, including refusing to go into the promised land and to believe that God could take them there, which is the parallel to the rest mentioned.

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According to the scriptures there are two rests being spoken of in 3:12-19 and Hebrews 4:1-12. The first is Gods' rest as shown in Hebrews 3:11; 18; Hebrews 4:1; 3; 4-5; 10 which is the rest from the seventh day Sabbath creation and the second rest is what all Gods' people receive through believing and following Gods' Word (the gospel rest) *Hebrews 4:3.

God's rest is defined as the rest God had from the "seventh day" Sabbath created from the foundation of the world in Hebrews 4:3-4. Those who did not believe and follow Gods' Word (the gospel rest) do not enter into Gods' "seventh day" Sabbath rest because they do not believe and follow Gods' Word (the gospel) *Hebrews 4:1-3, choose to harden their hearts *Hebrews 3:8 and do not seek to know Gods' ways *Hebrews 3:11, and sin against God *Hebrews 3:17 breaking his commandments (1 John 3:4).

So they did not enter into both the gospel rest of believing and following Gods Word because of "unbelief" *Hebrews 3:19. That is they were able to outwardly keep Gods' "seventh day" Sabbath according to the scriptures but because they did not believe and follow Gods' Word God did not give them rest that was meant to be a part of the Sabbath (God's rest; My rest; His rest; Hebrews 3:11; 18; Hebrews 4:1; 3; 4-5; 10) that those who believe Gods' Word enter into by faith.

Ezekiel 20:13 But the house of Israel rebelled against me in the wilderness: they walked not in my statutes, and they despised my judgments, which if a man do, he shall even live in them; and my sabbaths they greatly polluted: then I said, I would pour out my fury on them in the wilderness, to consume them.

Ezekiel 20:16 Because they despised my judgments, and walked not in my statutes, but polluted my sabbaths: for their heart went after their idols.

Ezekiel 20:21 Notwithstanding the children rebelled against me: they walked not in my statutes, neither kept my judgments to do them, which if a man do, he shall even live in them; they polluted my sabbaths: then I said, I would pour out my fury on them, to accomplish my anger against them in the wilderness.

Ezekiel 20:24 Because they had not executed my judgments, but had despised my statutes, and had polluted my sabbaths, and their eyes were after their fathers' idols.

If we therefore keep the "seventh day" without believing and following Gods' Word we cannot enter into Gods' rest (the seventh day Sabbath rest) that all who believe and follow Gods' Word receive on the "seventh day" of the week made for mankind from the foundation of the world (God's rest; My rest; His rest; Hebrews 3:11; 18; Hebrews 4:1; 3; 4-5; 10). No one keeps the Sabbath as a holy day of rest when there is idols in their heart.

The gospel rest of Hebrews 4:1-3 is not the same as God's; His rest; My rest of Hebrews 3:11; 18; Hebrews 4:1; 3; 4-5; 10 and God's rest here is not the gospel rest because God's rest in the "seventh day from the foundation of the world *Hebrews 4:3-4 was made for mankind *Mark 2:27 and all those who believe and follow Gods' Word before there was sin and before there was a gospel for salvation from sin, when mankind was in perfect harmony with God and walked and talked with God (Genesis 1:26-31; Genesis 2:1-3).

Once again your trying to separate the gospel rest we receive through believing and following Gods' Word with Gods' seventh day Sabbath rest that all who believe and follow Gods' Word enter into by faith *Hebrews 4:1-9.

As posted a little earlier, Hebrews 3 and Hebrews 4 is a warning to all those who do not believe and follow Gods' Word. It is not saying we are now free to break Gods' 4th commandment and as a result of breaking Gods' commandments we will enter into God's rest for disobedience, unbelief and sin. This was the very reason Gods' people in the wilderness did not enter into Gods' rest according to Hebrews 3:12-19 and Hebrews 4:1-12. Those who do not believe and follow Gods' Word do not enter into God's rest because they do not believe Gods' Word and do not follow what Gods' Word says.

It is impossible for God's 4th commandment Sabbath to be a "shadow law" as it points backwards to creation "Remember" - Exodus 20:8-11, not forwards to things to come *Colossians 2:17. Your trying to separate Gods' rest from God's Sabbath which is not biblical.

Hope this is helpful.

LoveGodsWord said: ↑ It is impossible for God's 4th commandment Sabbath to be a "shadow law" as it points backwards to creation "Remember" - Exodus 20:8-11, not forwards to things to come *Colossians 2:17. Your trying to separate Gods' rest from God's Sabbath which is not biblical.

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Your response here...

tall73 said:

Of course it is, because it is one of the appointed times. I have already noted the similar listing in Ezekiel that included the weekly Sabbath. It is a sign given to Israel, stated a number of times in the text, as a sign of their sanctification, a memorial to their Creator, and their Savior from bondage in Egypt, Deut. 5. And given we see no one keep it until Exodus 16 where it was introduced to them, as a test, and then cemented as part of their covenant, given with sacrifices.

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No. According to the scriptures it is impossible for Gods’ Sabbath to be a “shadow law” because it was created for mankind *Mark 2:27 when there was no sin, no law, no gospel given for salvation from sin, no Jew, no Israel, no Moses only sinless man that was created in the image of God *Genesis 1:26-31 and made for mankind on the “seventh day” of the week from the foundation of the world. Gods’ 4th commandment therefore cannot be a “shadow of things to come” *Colossians 2:17 because it points “backwards” to the “finished” work of creation as a memorial of God as the creator of heaven and earth. “Remember (already happened) the Sabbath day to keep it holy… *Exodus 20:8-11

Yet many follow the teachings and traditions of men instead of the Word of God and say no let’s forget the Sabbath day to keep it Holy and remember Sunday instead either knowingly after they receive a knowledge of the truth and reject God’s Word *Hebrews 10:26-31 offering up to God the sacrifice of Cain *Genesis 4:3-7 seeking to worship God in their own way and not in Gods’ appointed way breaking Gods’ commandments teaching for doctrine the commandments of men instead of the Word of God. Jesus says all those who do this are not worshiping God as was Cain in Matthew 15:3-9. So the question we should all be asking ourselves is who do we believe and follow; God or man? Only God’s Word is true according to the scriptures and we should believe and follow them *Romans 3:4; Acts of the Apostles 5:29.

God’s Sabbath is indeed a sign to His people that we worship the only true God and creator of heaven and earth and it is this same God that saves His people from their sins because they choose through faith to believe and follow Gods’ Word. Your mistake here however is in not understanding that God’s ISRAEL in the new covenant is now all those who believe and follow Gods’ Word. God’s ISRAEL according to the scriptures is not longer all those in the flesh (Romans 9:6-8; Galatians 3:28-29; Romans 2:28-29) but all those who are now born in the Spirit (John 3:3-7; 1 John 3:6-9) therefore Gods’ Sabbath continues to be an everlasting covenant *Exodus 31:16 to Gods’ ISRAEL who in the new covenant are now all those who believe and follow Gods’ Word.

According to Jesus, God's sheep hear His voice (the Word) and follow him. Those who do not hear do not follow because they are not His sheep *Matthew 10:26-27. God's sheep are in every church according to the scriptures *John 10:16 but the hour is coming and now is according to Jesus that God's true worshipers will worship Him in Spirit and in truth *John 4:23-24. God is calling his people out where ever they might be back to the pure Word of God. These are Gods' sheep that hear His voice (the Word) and follow him (Revelation 18:4).

Babylon has fallen. God is calling us all back to His Word.

tall73 said:

In fact the author's point was that God has been resting since that time from His creative works, and we will also rest--not one day a week, but in the new promised land if we endure to the end.

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For me your mistake here once more is in trying to separate rest from Gods’ Sabbath rest where God rested on the "seventh day from the foundation of the world *Hebrews 4:3-4 and in thinking we can break Gods’ commandments (4th commandment Sabbath of Exodus 20:8-11) and think by breaking God’s commandments we can enter into Gods’ rest when this is the very warning given in Hebrews 3:11-19 and Hebrews 4:1-12 showing that all those who do not believe and follow Gods’ Word and sin against God do not enter into God’s rest. According to the scriptures we do not enter into God’s rest by not believing and following Gods’ Word and breaking God’s commandments. Claiming we enter into God’s rest by breaking God’s law is not biblical and is a teaching that is opposite of what the author of Hebrews 3:11-19 and Hebrews 4:1-12 is warning against.

Hope this is helpful.

Strong in Him said:

FWIW, the OP was asking for help on this subject. I don't think SDA's can exactly offer unbiased help;

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We are objective on the subject in that we "notice" when Bible details are so incredibly obvious that Bible scholars on BOTH sides of the Sunday vs Sabbath debate agree to them.

Let's "test" that statement - do yourself a favor and try this experiment

• - look at page 1 and 2 of this thread.
  
• .Notice all the NON-SDA Bible scholars in almost all christian denominations agreeing with the SDA points I list there. Post #11 comes to mind. so also post #21 and #23

I gave direct quotes of them in #11 and #23 and in #21 I gave a small list "example" that included this -

The Baptist Confession of Faith,
the Westminster Confession of Faith ,
D.L. Moody,
R.C Sproul,
Matthew Henry,
Thomas Watson
Eastern Orthodox Catechism
The Catholic Catechism

====================

By contrast you yourself said that your own view that no activity is secular if a dedicated Christian is the one doing it - is not a view held by anyone but yourself (or something to that effect) which sounds more like a one-off solution rather than an appeal to an obvious Bible detail that scholars on both sides of the debate would freely admit to.

BobRyan said:

Hint: I did not write Isaiah 66:23 and John does not say "delete whatever Isaiah said about the Sabbath and the New Earth"..

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Agreed you did not write it. And I am noting, as are you, that some things are not in John and Peter's accounts that are in Isaiah's account.

But then you need to explain why Isaiah did include them, which was the point of asking you to explain the mix of streams. Why did Isaiah include these things? And how do you decide to bring some into John's account, when they are not mentioned, but not others.

John's text gives us details so also does Isaiah 66:22-23 - I was not expecting John to have to repeat everything Isaiah said in order for Isaiah's text to still be part of the Bible, inspired and true -- were you thinking that???

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Indeed not. I am asking why Isaiah mentions things that both of us agree are not in John and Peter's account, what does it mean, and a rationale for why you do or do not include other things.

I don't see how this is even a little difficult.

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It is because you see no difficulty in seeing clarity in a "mix" of two "streams" that I asked you to explain it.

When Isaiah said
"from Sabbath to Sabbath shall all mankind come before Me to worship" Is 66:23 he makes an easy and obvious statement and so far even you are not questioning it - you seem to center all your time in Isaiah 65.

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I have mentioned elements from both chapters. Here are some from 66 again:

Isa 66:20 And they shall bring all your brothers from all the nations as an offering to the LORD, on horses and in chariots and in litters and on mules and on dromedaries, to my holy mountain Jerusalem, says the LORD, just as the Israelites bring their grain offering in a clean vessel to the house of the LORD.
Isa 66:21 And some of them also I will take for priests and for Levites, says the LORD.
Isa 66:22 “For as the new heavens and the new earth that I make shall remain before me, says the LORD, so shall your offspring and your name remain.
Isa 66:23 From new moon to new moon, and from Sabbath to Sabbath, all flesh shall come to worship before me, declares the LORD.
Isa 66:24 “And they shall go out and look on the dead bodies of the men who have rebelled against me. For their worm shall not die, their fire shall not be quenched, and they shall be an abhorrence to all flesh.”

- Jews being brought to Jerusalem by the nations where they are scattered, even though in the Adventist view the New Jerusalem descends to earth with the redeemed already in it.

- New moon, upon which Adventists do not assemble, and say it is ceremonial.

- Inclusion of "some" as priests and Levites, though Hebrews indicates the priesthood of all believers, and Revelation notes no sanctuary at all needed in the new earth. Moreover, Christ is not a priest in the order of Levi.

- Going out to look at the dead bodies

Here are the Adventist positions on some of these:

The Millennium and the End of Sin

The millennium is the thousand-year reign of Christ with His saints in heaven between the first and second resurrections. During this time the wicked dead will be judged; the earth will be utterly desolate, without living human inhabitants, but occupied by Satan and his angels. At its close Christ with His saints and the Holy City will descend from heaven to earth. The unrighteous dead will then be resurrected, and with Satan and his angels will surround the city; but fire from God will consume them and cleanse the earth. The universe will thus be freed of sin and sinners forever. ( Jer. 4:23-26; Ezek. 28:18, 19; Mal. 4:1; 1 Cor. 6:2, 3; Rev. 20; 21:1-5.)


"I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away." Revelation 21:1. The fire that consumes the wicked purifies the earth. Every trace of the curse is swept away. No eternally burning hell will keep before the ransomed the fearful consequences of sin. One reminder alone remains: Our Redeemer will ever bear the marks of His crucifixion. Great Controversy 674

So I am asking why Isaiah included these. What did they mean? Why are they different in John and 2 Peter?

Why did he include sinners, death, etc. in 66 as well?

BobRyan said:

Peter says "rightesouness dwells" in the new heaven and new earth that we look forward to in the future.

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And Isaiah 65 says sinners do. And Isaiah 66 says bodies those who sinned against Him do, but that is not the position of Adventists regarding the new earth.

LoveGodsWord said:

For me your mistake here once more is in trying to separate rest from Gods’ Sabbath rest where God rested on the "seventh day from the foundation of the world *

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And your mistake is missing that Hebrews and Genesis describe God resting at the beginning of the world, but no command for people to rest, and no people resting until Exodus 16.

Hebrews notes God's cessation of works, which comprises His ongoing rest. We enter that ongoing rest. And when we endure to the end we cease from our labors.

The rest is just indicating you think God commands gentiles to keep the Sabbath. But we have the opposite of that in Colossians 2 pointing out the appointed times given to Israel were shadows, and Christ is the reality.

LoveGodsWord said:

That is they were able to outwardly keep Gods' "seventh day" Sabbath according to the scriptures but because they did not believe and follow Gods' Word God did not give them rest that was meant to be a part of the Sabbath (God's rest; My rest; His rest; Hebrews 3:11; 18; Hebrews 4:1; 3; 4-5; 10) that those who believe Gods' Word enter into by faith.

Ezekiel 20:13 But the house of Israel rebelled against me in the wilderness: they walked not in my statutes, and they despised my judgments, which if a man do, he shall even live in them; and my sabbaths they greatly polluted: then I said, I would pour out my fury on them in the wilderness, to consume them.

Ezekiel 20:16 Because they despised my judgments, and walked not in my statutes, but polluted my sabbaths: for their heart went after their idols.

Ezekiel 20:21 Notwithstanding the children rebelled against me: they walked not in my statutes, neither kept my judgments to do them, which if a man do, he shall even live in them; they polluted my sabbaths: then I said, I would pour out my fury on them, to accomplish my anger against them in the wilderness.

Ezekiel 20:24 Because they had not executed my judgments, but had despised my statutes, and had polluted my sabbaths, and their eyes were after their fathers' idols.

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Eze 20:1 In the seventh year, in the fifth month, on the tenth day of the month, certain of the elders of Israel came to inquire of the LORD, and sat before me.
Eze 20:2 And the word of the LORD came to me:
Eze 20:3 “Son of man, speak to the elders of Israel, and say to them, Thus says the Lord GOD, Is it to inquire of me that you come? As I live, declares the Lord GOD, I will not be inquired of by you.
Eze 20:4 Will you judge them, son of man, will you judge them? Let them know the abominations of their fathers,
Eze 20:5 and say to them, Thus says the Lord GOD: On the day when I chose Israel, I swore to the offspring of the house of Jacob, making myself known to them in the land of Egypt; I swore to them, saying, I am the LORD your God.
Eze 20:6 On that day I swore to them that I would bring them out of the land of Egypt into a land that I had searched out for them, a land flowing with milk and honey, the most glorious of all lands.
Eze 20:7 And I said to them, ‘Cast away the detestable things your eyes feast on, every one of you, and do not defile yourselves with the idols of Egypt; I am the LORD your God.’
Eze 20:8 But they rebelled against me and were not willing to listen to me. None of them cast away the detestable things their eyes feasted on, nor did they forsake the idols of Egypt. “Then I said I would pour out my wrath upon them and spend my anger against them in the midst of the land of Egypt.
Eze 20:9 But I acted for the sake of my name, that it should not be profaned in the sight of the nations among whom they lived, in whose sight I made myself known to them in bringing them out of the land of Egypt.
Eze 20:10 So I led them out of the land of Egypt and brought them into the wilderness.
Eze 20:11 I gave them my statutes and made known to them my rules, by which, if a person does them, he shall live.
Eze 20:12 Moreover, I gave them my Sabbaths, as a sign between me and them, that they might know that I am the LORD who sanctifies them.
Eze 20:13 But the house of Israel rebelled against me in the wilderness. They did not walk in my statutes but rejected my rules, by which, if a person does them, he shall live; and my Sabbaths they greatly profaned. “Then I said I would pour out my wrath upon them in the wilderness, to make a full end of them.
Eze 20:14 But I acted for the sake of my name, that it should not be profaned in the sight of the nations, in whose sight I had brought them out.
Eze 20:15 Moreover, I swore to them in the wilderness that I would not bring them into the land that I had given them, a land flowing with milk and honey, the most glorious of all lands,
Eze 20:16 because they rejected my rules and did not walk in my statutes, and profaned my Sabbaths; for their heart went after their idols.
Eze 20:17 Nevertheless, my eye spared them, and I did not destroy them or make a full end of them in the wilderness.
Eze 20:18 “And I said to their children in the wilderness, ‘Do not walk in the statutes of your fathers, nor keep their rules, nor defile yourselves with their idols.
Eze 20:19 I am the LORD your God; walk in my statutes, and be careful to obey my rules,
Eze 20:20 and keep my Sabbaths holy that they may be a sign between me and you, that you may know that I am the LORD your God.’

Note the reiteration of Exodus 31--the Sabbath was a sign with Israel.

He makes a distinction between the statutes by which a man lives, and the sign given to Israel of the sabbaths.

Eze 20:11 I gave them my statutes and made known to them my rules, by which, if a person does them, he shall live.
Eze 20:12 Moreover, I gave them my Sabbaths, as a sign between me and them, that they might know that I am the LORD who sanctifies them.

The sabbath is an appointed time (Leviticus 23) a sign with Israel, showing that God sanctifies them (Exodus 31), that He redeemed them from Egypt,(Deuteronomy 5), and that He is their creator (Exodus 20 and 31), with attendant sacrifices (Numbers 28).

And Colossians 2 makes it plain it was a shadow, and the reality is found in Christ.

tall73 said:

And your mistake is missing that Hebrews and Genesis describe God resting at the beginning of the world, but no command for people to rest, and no people resting until Exodus 16.

Hebrews notes God's cessation of works, which comprises His ongoing rest. We enter that ongoing rest. And when we endure to the end we cease from our labors.

The rest is just indicating you think God commands gentiles to keep the Sabbath. But we have the opposite of that in Colossians 2 pointing out the appointed times given to Israel were shadows, and Christ is the reality.

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No. We must be careful not to read into the scriptures what they do not say and do not teach. As shown through the scriptures already according to the scriptures it is impossible for Gods’ Sabbath to be a “shadow law” because it was created for mankind *Mark 2:27 when there was no sin, no law, no gospel given for salvation from sin, no Jew, no Israel, no Moses only sinless man that was created in the image of God *Genesis 1:26-31 and made for mankind on the “seventh day” of the week from the foundation of the world. Gods’ 4th commandment therefore cannot be a “shadow of things to come” *Colossians 2:17 because it points “backwards” to the “finished” work of creation as a memorial of God as the creator of heaven and earth. “Remember (already happened) the Sabbath day to keep it holy… *Exodus 20:8-11.

As posted earlier your mistake here once more is in trying to separate rest from Gods’ Sabbath rest where God rested on the "seventh day from the foundation of the world *Hebrews 4:3-4 and in thinking we can break Gods’ commandments (4th commandment Sabbath of Exodus 20:8-11) and think by breaking God’s commandments we can enter into Gods’ rest when this is the very warning given in Hebrews 3:11-19 and Hebrews 4:1-12 showing that all those who do not believe and follow Gods’ Word and sin against God do not enter into God’s rest.

According to the scriptures we do not enter into God’s rest by not believing and following Gods’ Word and breaking God’s commandments. Claiming we enter into God’s rest by breaking God’s law is not biblical and is a teaching that is opposite of what the author of Hebrews 3:11-19 and Hebrews 4:1-12 is warning against.

Let's pray we do not make the same mistake that Hebrews 3:11-19 and Hebrews 4:1-12 is warning us against and not do the same things as they did who hardened their hearts to not believe and follow Gods' Word and continue in known unrepentant sin *Hebrews 3:8; Hebrews 10:27-31.

Only God's Word is true dear friend and we should believe and follow them *Romans 3:4l Acts of the Apostles 5:29.

LoveGodsWord said:

No. We must be careful not to read into the scriptures what they do not say and do not teach.

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You mean like your assertion that God gave the sabbath to man as a commandment in Eden? Because it doesn't say it and it doesn't teach it. It does teach it is a sign with Israel. And it does first mention it being observed by people in Exodus 16 where it is given to Israel.