Nathan@work

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Amen!

And the question "remains from when?" - needs to be answered. Heb 4:7 -says it remains from the way it was in Ps 95:7 - at the time of David. hmm so that means it worked just fine at that time and it "remains" as it was then for us today. It worked so well back then that Moses and Elijah stand in glory with Christ - even before the Cross (see Matt 17) - and we have the "giants of faith" in Heb 11 -- all of them from Old Testament times.

So fine - given that it was perfect then -- did that perfect form of it - mean that they were all supposed to downsize the "ten commandments" to "zero" or to "nine" so they could have such a wonderful Sabbath "that remains" even for us today?

His rest remains from before the foundation of the earth. Not just from the time of David, or from the seventh day of creation - it remains from before time began. “Today” means as long as this ‘time’ we are in exists.

It is transcendent of human life span, or times and seasons of the earth. Meaning from the beginning of this world till the moment God destroys it, “Today” is today.

This means the rest God gives us in Christ is our Sabbath.

Only viewing the Sabbath as a weekly observance of rest is no different than thinking murder is only taking a human life or idol worship is only bowing down before some statue.

The Sabbath commandment is so much more than the seventh day rest each week. Viewing it as such is literally missing the point - truly missing the ‘mark’.
 
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LoveGodsWord

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Sorry, but it doesn't really answer my questions.
Perhaps you may need to clearly spell out how my responses to your posts do not answer your questions and posts SIH as from what I can see your posts and questions have been clearly answered and addressed in detail through the scriptures provided to you. They are indeed Gods' Word not my words so I am now sure how you can claim they do not answer your questions. Let's pray none of us (I include myself here) close our eyes and ears to hearing God's Word as foretold in Isaiah 6:9-10, that Jesus quotes in Matthew 13:14-15 and Paul in Acts of the Apostles 28:25-27.
Ok, so you say I SHOULD refrain from work on a Saturday - I don't have a job, so what is work?"6 days shall you labour"; I don't labour any days, aside from voluntary charity work, which is apparently allowed on the Sabbath anyway.
No I said no such thing God said it. It is written in God's 4th commandment which is one of God's 10 commandments that according to the new covenant scriptures give us the knowledge of what sin is when broken *Romans 3:20; Romans 7:7; 1 John 3:4; James 2:10-11.

Exodus 20:8-11 [8], Remember the SABBATH DAY, to KEEP IT HOLY. <Why?> Because God made it Holy for mankind and commands us to keep it as a Holy day) [9], Six days shalt thou labor, and do all thy work:[10], But the SEVENTH DAY IS THE SABBATH of the LORD thy God: in it thou shalt not do any work, thou, nor thy son, nor thy daughter, thy manservant, nor thy maidservant, nor thy cattle, nor thy stranger that is within thy gates: <WHY> [11], For in six days the LORD made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them is, and rested the SEVENTH DAY: wherefore the LORD BLESSED THE SABBATH, and HALLOWED IT.

The commandment includes, all work. All paid and unpaid work, all domestic work inclusive of cooking and cleaning, all buying and selling and work that can be done on any other day of the week. Of course it is lawful to do good on the Sabbath when needed. The Sabbath is Gods' 4th commandment and a holy day of rest and a time set apart as a full day of rest to remember God as the creator of heaven and earth. As posted earlier the Sabbath starts according to God's Word our time Friday sunset to Saturday sunset.
I don't have any work that I normally do the rest of the week; that's the point. I have voluntary shifts with a couple of charities; these, hobbies and church pastoral work make up my week. It seems that all these activities would be permitted on the Sabbath - doing good, and relaxing. So there's no difference.
The fact that your asking these questions I believe is that God has convicted you on His 4th commandment. I do not know your circumstances and what you do on His Sabbath commandment but if you feel that Gods' Sabbath to you is just like any other day of the week that in itself should be telling you that you are not keeping His Sabbath and perhaps you should evaluate what you do on the Sabbath and if it is indeed keeping the Sabbath day as a holy day of rest and dedication to God as the creator of Heaven and earth. If you feel you are keeping God's 4th commandment as a holy day of rest dedicated to God than that is between you and God. If you do not feel any peace in this regard than perhaps you may need to consider what exactly you do on Gods' Holy day and see if you can stop doing things you can do any other day of the week and dedicate your time to God.
And those Scriptures you keep posting are out of context.
Yes a lot of people make this claim when they have no scripture to support their position. When challenged and asked what scriptures were taken out of context to what was said to them, I normally do not get a response. So let me ask you dear friend. What scriptures do you believe I have taken out of context and why? If you cannot prove your claims then why do you not believe what has been shared with you, as they are Gods' Words not my words.
As I said: EVERY day belongs to God, and Scripture says that whatever you do do, whether in word or deed, do it ALL in the name of the Lord, Colossians 3:17. A few verses on Paul says, "whatever you do work at it with your whole heart", Colossians 3:23. So any kind of work - even the dull, routine stuff - is to be done wholeheartedly, in the name of the Lord. That's why I said that work = worship; we are serving him, in his presence, with his strength and honouring him by using the gifts that he has given us. As I do on a Saturday what I do for the rest of the week; what's the difference?
God's 4th commandment is one of God's 10 commandments that according to the new covenant scriptures give us the knowledge of what sin is when broken *Romans 3:20; Romans 7:7; 1 John 3:4; James 2:10-11.

Exodus 20:8-11 [8], Remember the SABBATH DAY, to KEEP IT HOLY. <Why?> Because God made it Holy for mankind and commands us to keep it as a Holy day) [9], Six days shalt thou labor, and do all thy work:[10], But the SEVENTH DAY IS THE SABBATH of the LORD thy God: in it thou shalt not do any work, thou, nor thy son, nor thy daughter, thy manservant, nor thy maidservant, nor thy cattle, nor thy stranger that is within thy gates: <WHY> [11], For in six days the LORD made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them is, and rested the SEVENTH DAY: wherefore the LORD BLESSED THE SABBATH, and HALLOWED IT.

Every day is not the "seventh day" Sabbath commandments and a holy day of rest that God commands His people to keep as a holy day of rest where no work is to be done. If you are not keeping Gods' 4th commandment as a holy day of rest than your not keeping the Sabbath but I think you know this already deep down in your heart or you would not be asking these questions in your posts. Therefore we need to examine our selves according to the scriptures in 2 Corinthians 13:5 and see what it is that might be holding us back from completely believing and following God's Word. As posted earlier if the Sabbath to you is no different to any other day of the week than that should be a sign to you that something is wrong. Then perhaps you should seek to get rid of all those things that make Gods' Sabbath to you just any other day of the week.
So I can do charity work - which is my usual work - on a Saturday just as much as at any other time. So what's the difference? How do I refrain from my normal work, when my normal work is to do good, and that is allowed?
The difference is that if you can do those things every other day of the week and if they just make the Sabbath to you not a holy day of rest and time dedicated to God than your not keeping the Sabbath from the heart. Do you do your own cooking, cleaning, buying and selling, domestic duties etc on the Sabbath that can be done any other day of the week? If your work is voluntary work and you can do it any day of the week why not just take Sabbath day as a day dedicated only to God? You do know that the Sabbath of God's 4th commandment is a full day dedicated only to God right?
All work that's done with our whole heart for God, is his work.
No it is not. Our work is not God's work and we are to refrain from our work on the Sabbath as God did from his. See previous sections and Exodus 20:8-11.
All days that are begun with God, in which we walk with God and receive his Spirit to enable us to work in his power, are holy days.
No that is not what the scriptures teach.

Exodus 20:8-11 [8], Remember the SABBATH DAY, to KEEP IT HOLY. <Why?> Because God made it Holy for mankind and commands us to keep it as a Holy day) [9], Six days shalt thou labor, and do all thy work:[10], But the SEVENTH DAY IS THE SABBATH of the LORD thy God: in it thou shalt not do any work, thou, nor thy son, nor thy daughter, thy manservant, nor thy maidservant, nor thy cattle, nor thy stranger that is within thy gates: <WHY> [11], For in six days the LORD made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them is, and rested the SEVENTH DAY: wherefore the LORD BLESSED THE SABBATH, and HALLOWED IT.

You're missing my point. You mentioned cooking was not allowed; I said that for some, cooking is relaxing and they use it for the benefit of others; like cooking meals for a homeless shelter or a neighbour who is in need. You mentioned cleaning - ditto. Besides WHATEVER we do we are to work at it with our whole heart as for the Lord. Even if someone does not cook or clean for anyone else; it's a way of showing love to the family. Cooking, cleaning, gardening can be doing good - and you said that doing good is allowed on the Sabbath.
No, I have considered what you have said very carefully only providing scripture as a response. There is a preparation day before the Sabbath (all Friday) to prepare for the Sabbath for shopping and buying and selling, cooking and cleaning etc. (Exodus 16:4-5; Exodus 16:23-28; Mark 15:42; Luke 23:54; John 19:31 etc). These can all be done before the Sabbath starts. God does not want us to do these things on His holy day according to Exodus 20:8-11 if it can be done on any other day of the week. All these things you mentioned in your post can be done on the preparation day before the Sabbath starts according to the scriptures.
The practicalities haven't been answered; no.
Yes your questions have been answered indeed through the scriptures. It seems you do not like those answers though. The scriptures that have been shared with you however are Gods' Words not my words. You should consider this in your responses.
What is work? Especially for someone who is unemployed/retired/too disabled to have paid work? What if someone's work is doing good - which as you have correctly said, is allowed on the Sabbath?
Already addressed above and in previous posts to you through the scriptures. One can argue as your trying to that any type of work is good work therefore we should all work on the Sabbath. That is not what the commandment says though however which are Gods' Word. Only Gods' Words are true and we should believe and follow them.
We live in a different time to that of the Hebrew slaves in the OT. We do not have to seek God through prophets and priests; we can approach him for ourselves.
Where did anyone say to you that we need to seek God from the old testament through prophets and Priests? If no one has ever said these things to you why are you pretending that they have? If I have only shared Gods' Word with you than the rest is between you and God as they are God's Words not my words so it is up to us all personally to believe and follow them. I do not judge you though it is Gods' Word that we accept or reject according to the scriptures that will be our judge come judgement day as shown in John 12:47-48
We should not think of categorizing work and worship - i.e 6 days for our work and one day for God; we are told to put him first, rejoice always, pray at all times and give thanks in all circumstances, 1 Thessalonians 5:16-18. And to do all our work in his name. We are told to live each day for the Lord and as if it is our last; being prepared for his coming. If the Lord tells me to do something on a certain day, I'm not going to disobey and say "Oh but I can't; it's Saturday." Supposing that was my last day on earth and I'd spent it a) disobeying God and b) sitting around doing nothing? Supposing I had an opportunity to speak to someone/do something for them that might lead them coming to faith, and because I didn't do it, that person suffered? We do not have to go to a special place to find God; he is with us all the time and lives in us by his Holy Spirit. So we can pray to him, sing, worship and meditate on him always - just as much on the bus as kneeling by a bed.
1 Thessalonians 5:16-18 [16], says Rejoice ever more. [17], Pray without ceasing. [18], In every thing give thanks: for this is the will of God in Christ Jesus concerning you.

God's 4th commandment is one of God's 10 commandments that according to the new covenant scriptures give us the knowledge of what sin is when broken *Romans 3:20; Romans 7:7; 1 John 3:4; James 2:10-11 says this...

Exodus 20:8-11 [8], Remember the SABBATH DAY, to KEEP IT HOLY. <Why?> Because God made it Holy for mankind and commands us to keep it as a Holy day) [9], Six days shalt thou labor, and do all thy work:[10], But the SEVENTH DAY IS THE SABBATH of the LORD thy God: in it thou shalt not do any work, thou, nor thy son, nor thy daughter, thy manservant, nor thy maidservant, nor thy cattle, nor thy stranger that is within thy gates: <WHY> [11], For in six days the LORD made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them is, and rested the SEVENTH DAY: wherefore the LORD BLESSED THE SABBATH, and HALLOWED IT.
No, it is a day on which he asked the Hebrews to rest and be with him - we are with him always, and he with us. We are to abide in the vine 24/7, 7 days a week; not just one.
No, that is not biblical but let me explain why. Jesus who is the creator of heaven and earth and the Sabbath (John 1:1-4; 14) says that the Sabbath was made for all mankind in Mark 2:27 and he is the Lord of the Sabbath in Mark 2:28 and Matthew 12:8. There was no Jew, and no Israel and no Hebrews and no Moses as well as no law when God made the Sabbath on the seventh day of creation according to the scriptures (see Genesis 2:1-3). So you may want to rethink this one through a little more and pray about it.
We can't steal God's time - he literally has all the time in the world. And he is with us, and has asked us to be with him EVERY day.
Arr but we do indeed steal God's time if God's asks us to keep the Sabbath as a holy day of rest and we say no! I will not.

Perhaps there is something more for you to pray about here.
 
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Strong in Him

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First of all - this is not a case of one person who happens to like taking Saturday as a day off - proposing that some Sabbath texts should "exist" in the Bible.

Never said that it was.

So unless the Sabbath person is God Himself we cannot say "you say I should not work" to anyone but God.

No, it is correct in the context.
I was answering someone's post in which they said that the Sabbath is a certain day.
I know what it says in the Bible. I also know that I spend time with God each day, asking him to guide me, show me what to do and help me to live for him - and if, on a Saturday, he says to me "I want you to .....", I'm not going to argue and say that I am taking a day off to be with him. I am with him all the time, and he with me. The idea that one day alone is God's day, or is especially holy, is not correct - not for we who have the Lord himself IN us and who have been told to put him first always, as well as abiding in him.

Ex 20:8-11 - says "10 but the seventh day is a Sabbath of the LORD (YHWH) your God; on it you shall not do any work, you, or your son, or your daughter, your male slave or your female slave, or your cattle, or your resident who stays with you. 11 For in six days the Lord made the heavens and the earth, the sea and everything that is in them, and He rested on the seventh day; for that reason the Lord blessed the Sabbath day and made it holy.

The one speaking there is God.

Jesus said "The Sabbath was made for man, not man for the Sabbath".
The one who is speaking here is God. God made the sabbath for us so that we could rest, re-charge our batteries, have some quality time with our Father.
I'm not disputing that; that's very important.
I'm asking HOW someone who does not labour for 6 days, can rest. And WHY we should need one day to be with God when in fact we are with him every day - all our days, all our time and all that we do belongs to him.

We are in this position now; they weren't in OT times. The Spirit did not live in them, they hadn't been told to abide in the Vine, nor had they been told that all who laboured could go to the Lord and receive HIS rest, Matthew 11:28.

Gen 2:1-3 And so the heavens and the earth were completed, and all their heavenly lights. 2 By the seventh day God completed His work which He had done, and He rested on the seventh day from all His work which He had done. 3 Then God blessed the seventh day and sanctified it, because on it He rested from all His work which God had created and made.

All days have been made by God and if we offer each new day to him, he sanctifies it.

Is 58:13 “If you turn away your foot from the Sabbath,
From doing your pleasure on My holy day,
And call the Sabbath a delight,
The holy day of the Lord honorable,
And shall honor Him, not doing your own ways,
Nor finding your own pleasure,
Nor speaking your own words,

Another OT verse.
Maybe you don't believe that all days belong to the Lord and can be holy.

As a person who is now retired - I "do not have a job" but I do mow the lawn some days, and work on a garden, burn leaves, cut trees, saw up logs, wash the car.. you name it -- I do stuff during the week. But I don't "do that in church" which means I also don't do it on the Sabbath - an entire day dedicated to worship, sharing the gospel, prayer, fellowship, etc.

Well that's you.
I was asking someone how I can rest from my work when the whole of my work is volunteering for charities or doing good - and doing good is allowed on the Sabbath.

Speaking practically, I'm not going to refuse to do charity work on a Saturday if the charity - and the Lord who led me to work for the charity - want me to do otherwise.
Doing good is allowed on the Sabbath.

A pastor's work of praying for the sick or preaching the Gospel or giving Bible studies is a special case of "work" that is normal during the six working days also being in harmony with the Bible Sabbath.

I wasn't necessarily talking about a Pastor.
Christians don't have to be ordained to visit the sick or dying, explain a Bible passage to someone, give someone practical help, work for the homeless and so on.

(Actually I am not sure you even have a question that you are asking about that point - or am I missing something)

My points are;
i) every day belongs to God. Christians should dedicate themselves and their time to him every day.
ii) for myself, the things that apparently we should do for God on the Sabbath - worship, prayer, learning about him, I try to do every day.
iii) for myself, the work that I should apparently cease from every Saturday is work of doing good for others - which is allowed on the Sabbath. There is nothing I do on a Saturday that I do not do the rest of the week. Corporate worship, when our buildings are able to open, is on the first day of the week when Jesus rose again.
iv) there may be days when God says that he wants me to relax and abide in him, or days when I feel unable to do anything except that. God is not going to be cross and rebuke me if one of those days happens to be a Thursday, for example.
v) If God were to say to me on a Saturday "I want you to .....", I'm not going to disobey him, say "no, it's the Sabbath, I'll do it tomorrow." None of us is guaranteed tomorrow.
 
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BobRyan

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BobRyan said:
So unless the Sabbath person is God Himself we cannot say "you say I should not work" to anyone but God.

No, it is correct in the context.
I was answering someone's post in which they said that the Sabbath is a certain day.
I know what it says in the Bible.

The Bible says "the seventh day is the Sabbath of the LORD (YHWH)" - Ex 20:10 I assume you agree.
The Bible says Jesus was raised on the "first day of the week" - I assume you agree

A few billion Christians today are attending Sunday services since week-day-1 is Sunday and even the Jews have the first day of the week as Sunday. -- it is possible you agree here as well.

In addition many languages on Earth have the 7th day Saturday - as the Sabbath.

In any case how does that get turned into "you say we must rest on the 7th day"??

I also know that I spend time with God each day, asking him to guide me, show me what to do and help me to live for him

I assume you also agree that all Christians do that regardless of their view of Saturday vs Sunday.


The Bible says - Ex 20
8 “Remember the Sabbath day, to keep it holy. 9 Six days you shall labor and do all your work, 10 but the seventh day is the Sabbath of the LORD (YHWH) your God. In it you shall do no work: you, nor your son, nor your daughter, nor your male servant, nor your female servant, nor your cattle, nor your stranger who is within your gates. 11 For in six days the Lord made the heavens and the earth, the sea, and all that is in them, and rested the seventh day. Therefore the Lord blessed the Sabbath day and hallowed it.

Gen 2:1-3 And so the heavens and the earth were completed, and all their heavenly lights. 2 By the seventh day God completed His work which He had done, and He rested on the seventh day from all His work which He had done. 3 Then God blessed the seventh day and sanctified it, because on it He rested from all His work which God had created and made.

Is 58:13 “If you turn away your foot from the Sabbath,
From doing your pleasure on My holy day,
And call the Sabbath a delight,
The holy day of the Lord honorable,
And shall honor Him, not doing your own ways,
Nor finding your own pleasure,
Nor speaking your own words,

But you say.

The idea that one day alone is God's day, or is especially holy, is not correct

You have free will of course and can believe as you wish - but I am sticking with the Bible on this one.

How nice then that for all eternity after the cross in the New Earth "from Sabbath to Sabbath shall all mankind come before Me to worship" Is 66:23

we who have the Lord himself IN us and who have been told to put him first always, as well as abiding in him.

So say we all as I am sure you would agree.

That is how the "one Gospel" Gal 1:6-9 of all time has always worked.


Jesus said "The Sabbath was made for man, not man for the Sabbath".

Indeed - the Sabbath made for mankind - not mankind made for the Sabbath -- which speaks of the making of BOTH - as we see in the Bible in Gen 1:2 - Gen 2:3.

The one who is speaking here is God. God made the sabbath for us so that we could rest, re-charge our batteries, have some quality time with our Father.
I'm not disputing that; that's very important.

Good point.

I would also add that everything I have said so far is also agreed to by Bible scholars on both sides of the Sabbath vs Sunday debate - in almost all denominations.
 
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BobRyan

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I'm asking HOW someone who does not labour for 6 days, can rest.

I have never met a person that never worked - not even a pastor.

As I pointed out - even as someone who is retired - I work all the time whether it be cleaning a room, or leaf blowing or raking something or shopping or fixing something around the house. I never met a Pastor that does not also have those sorts of work items - that would not be appropriate in the sanctuary during a worship service - set apart , sanctified for holy time, for holy use.

And WHY we should need one day to be with God when in fact we are with him every day - all our days, all our time and all that we do belongs to him.

That "always a child of God - always belong to Him" statement was always true for all saints in all of time. Even so not only was there Sabbath in Eden (as Bible scholars in almost all denominations on both sides of the Sabbath topic freely admit) but there is also Sabbath cycle worship services in the New Earth for all eternity after the cross Is 66:23
 
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BobRyan

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My points are;
i) every day belongs to God.

Which has always been true. God was always the Creator and every day - His. Yet even He has Sabbath in Eden Gen 2:1-3, Ex 20:11 as Bible scholars in almost all Christian denominations (on both sides of this debate) freely admit.

Christians should dedicate themselves and their time to him every day.

Which has always been true in all of time under the "one Gospel" of Gal 1:6-9

ii) for myself, the things that apparently we should do for God on the Sabbath - worship, prayer, learning about him, I try to do every day.

Hopefully you agree that it is true of all Christians that every day we have "worship, prayer time, and learning about God" - true for all today , true of Moses and Elijah standing with Christ in glory before the cross in Matt 17 - and true of all the saints of the OT listed in Hebrews 11.

No change.

iii) for myself, the work that I should apparently cease from every Saturday is work of doing good for others - which is allowed on the Sabbath.

I have repeatedly given examples of work I do every week including shopping, buying groceries, fixing something around the house or with the car, cleaning up, leaf blowing etc that are not appropriate in church during a worship service - and both Saturday and Sunday groups also agree on this detail. It is not unique to Sabbath keeping Christians.

There is nothing I do on a Saturday that I do not do the rest of the week.

That may be true of you - but it would not be true of those who choose to keep the Sabbath as a holy sanctified set apart day - where you would not do something that you cannot do in a church service which is also sanctified, holy, set apart time for worship, prayer, teaching...
 
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v) If God were to say to me on a Saturday "I want you to .....", I'm not going to disobey him, say "no, it's the Sabbath, I'll do it tomorrow." None of us is guaranteed tomorrow.

I assume you agree that God speaks to us in the Bible.
 
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LoveGodsWord

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His rest remains from before the foundation of the earth. Not just from the time of David, or from the seventh day of creation - it remains from before time began. “Today” means as long as this ‘time’ we are in exists.

It is transcendent of human life span, or times and seasons of the earth. Meaning from the beginning of this world till the moment God destroys it, “Today” is today.

This means the rest God gives us in Christ is our Sabbath.

Only viewing the Sabbath as a weekly observance of rest is no different than thinking murder is only taking a human life or idol worship is only bowing down before some statue.

The Sabbath commandment is so much more than the seventh day rest each week. Viewing it as such is literally missing the point - truly missing the ‘mark’.
No one views it that way. So what is your point? No one keeps the Sabbath by breaking the Sabbath according to the scriptures and only those who believe and follow God's Word enter into God's rest (the seventh day sabbath rest)
 
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Strong in Him

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I assume you agree that God speaks to us in the Bible.

Yes, and he speaks to me in other ways too; occasionally directly or through laying something on my heart.
If I believe he asks me to do something and it is a Saturday, I'm not going to say "no, I can't work on a Saturday". You may do as you please.
 
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I have repeatedly given examples of work I do every week including shopping, buying groceries, fixing something around the house or with the car, cleaning up, leaf blowing etc that are not appropriate in church during a worship service - and both Saturday and Sunday groups also agree on this detail.

But my question was specifically about how I keep the Sabbath.
My normal work is voluntary work for a charity; doing good is allowed on the Sabbath, therefore how, and why, should I refrain from that work when it is in fact allowed?

That may be true of you - but it would not be true of those who choose to keep the Sabbath as a holy sanctified set apart day - where you would not do something that you cannot do in a church service which is also sanctified, holy, set apart time for worship, prayer, teaching...

So worship, singing, prayer etc are "holy", but doing all your work for the Lord and to his glory, Colossians 3:17 - maybe while listening to worship music or teaching - is not?
That's the problem; too many people compartmentalise their faith and the rest of their lives.

When the disciples walked through a corn field, picked some corn and ate it, did Jesus say "you should have prepared your Sabbath meals beforehand", or "you cannot do what you would not do in a service of worship"?
No; it was the Pharisees who complained that they weren't keeping the Sabbath. In response, Jesus told them about what King David did when he was hungry; he went into the temple and asked for the consecrated bread that "should" only have been eaten by priests, and ate it, Mark 2:23-27. He did not condemn his disciples or say that they should be worshipping instead of walking through a cornfield, eating the corn.
 
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I have never met a person that never worked - not even a pastor.

The Scripture says "on 6 days shall you labour"; I do not have a paid job therefore do not labour.

And I'm not a Pastor - since you keep bringing that up.
 
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Perhaps you may need to clearly spell out how my responses to your posts do not answer your questions and posts SIH as from what I can see your posts and questions have been clearly answered and addressed in detail through the scriptures provided to you.

No; my questions were "what is work?" and "the work that I do is voluntary and for charities. My work is doing good; why, and how, should I refrain from doing that on a Sabbath when doing good is allowed on a Sabbath?"

No amount of Scripture from Exodus can answer that question, since that particular scenario isn't found in the Bible

They are indeed Gods' Word not my words so I am now sure how you can claim they do not answer your questions.

See above.
Scripture does not state whether working voluntarily for a charity is work, and whether or not that is allowed a the Sabbath. People still need help on the Sabbath; helping others is doing good, which is allowed. Jesus said that if Pharisees had an animal that fell into a ditch on the Sabbath, they would pull it out again. An animal, a donkey in this example, represented income and enabled people to carry wood, food and themselves. If it fell into a ditch, people pulled it out again. No one said "wait a few hours; if it dies, it dies. You can't do any work today".

The commandment includes, all work. All paid and unpaid work, all domestic work inclusive of cooking and cleaning, all buying and selling and work that can be done on any other day of the week.

That's your definition of work.
Jesus' disciples were walking through a cornfield on the Sabbath, picking corn and eating it. Mark 2:23-27. When criticised, Jesus did not say to them, "they're right; you should wait until we get back, or you should have brought some food - prepared before the sabbath - with you". Instead, he told the critics of what David had done once when he was hungry - eaten consecrated bread. In other words, human needs come before "rules".
He also said that the priests themselves desecrate the Sabbath, and yet are innocent of doing so, Matthew 12:5, and that if they had an animal that had fallen into a ditch on the sabbath, they would pull it out again, Matthew 12:11.

It seems that the Pharisees had ideas about what could and couldn't be done on the Sabbath - and Jesus pointed out that they were inconsistent in those attitudes.

Of course it is lawful to do good on the Sabbath when needed.

There you go then; my work is doing good - sometimes that involves working on the Sabbath.

Every day is not the "seventh day" Sabbath commandments and a holy day of rest that God commands His people to keep as a holy day of rest where no work is to be done.

So God wants me to be with him, abide in him, pray to him and worship him every day, but one day a week I should have a day off to worship him, abide in him, pray and be with him?

Again, what is there on the Sabbath that I am not doing on all the other days of the week? Even corporate worship with other Christians happens at weekly Bible study groups.

Yes your questions have been answered indeed through the scriptures.

They haven't, because there are no Scriptures which address the particular issue that I posed.

Doing good is allowed on the Sabbath - today that includes, and involves, working for charities, feeding the hungry (which we are told to do in Scripture), helping the homeless (ditto), visiting the sick, (ditto again). Scripture does not address what to do about these scenarios on the Sabbath - it does not say "give the hungry extra food on Thursday so that they will not make anyone prepare anything on the Sabbath". It does not say, "leave the homeless, the poor, the sick, the suicidal and desperate to their own devices on the Sabbath while you sit at home praising God and being holy."

The fact that your asking these questions I believe is that God has convicted you on His 4th commandment.

You would be wrong in your belief.
I am saying that there have been lots of threads on these forums where people get bashed for not keeping the Sabbath, yet I have seen none giving practical examples of HOW to do that.

If you do not feel any peace in this regard than perhaps you may need to consider what exactly you do on Gods' Holy day and see if you can stop doing things you can do any other day of the week and dedicate your time to God.

All days are God's holy days.
I dedicate all my time to God - and sitting around doing zilch on a Saturday because you believe that I should, is not going to make me any holier. In fact it might be disobedience, if God were to tell me to do something that day and my answer was "no; haven't you read the Bible?"
 
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Yes a lot of people make this claim when they have no scripture to support their position. When challenged and asked what scriptures were taken out of context to what was said to them, I normally do not get a response. So let me ask you dear friend. What scriptures do you believe I have taken out of context and why?

Matthew 21:13, which you have quoted a few times, has nothing at all to do with the Sabbath.
Jesus went into the temple after riding into Jerusalem, and overturned the tables of the money changers and those who sold doves.
Changing money and selling doves were legitimate things to do. Jews could not take money that had a pagan emperor's head on it into their temple, so it had to be changed for special temple coins, and any animal that was brought for sacrifice had to be inspected by priests. If it failed the inspection, the worshipper had to buy a "clean" animal from the priests.
But both these practices were being corrupted - money changers were charging more than they ought to, and some priests were apparently "failing" animals on their inspections so that a worshipper would have to be another one at whatever price the priest chose to sell it. As always, Jesus was on the side of the poor, or ordinary, people and against those who were practising extortion.

That is the context in which Matt 21:13 is written - you have taken it out of that and applied it to teaching on the Sabbath. It is not related.

Mark 15:42 tells us that it was preparation day, the day before the Sabbath.
Jews had this preparation day written into their law. I am not a Jew, and I have not been given a law which says I should have one. Elsewhere, you have written that the Sabbath was instituted by God before there were even Jews or Gentiles. In Genesis, God says nothing about a "day of preparation"; on the 6th day he was still creating. So it is inconsistent to say that the Sabbath has to be celebrated by gentiles because God gave it to everyone, and then quote a verse which describes how the JEWS were observing a day of preparation.

This verse only states that it was the day of preparation - it does not say that all Gentiles have to observe a day of preparation. So you are taking it out of context and implying that everyone has to have a day of preparation because God later gave that instruction to the Jews whom he had led out of Egypt.
 
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No; my questions were "what is work?" and "the work that I do is voluntary and for charities. My work is doing good; why, and how, should I refrain from doing that on a Sabbath when doing good is allowed on a Sabbath?
Yes, your question was already answered but it seems you did not like the answer shared with you from the scriptures so that is between you and God to work through as posted earlier,
No amount of Scripture from Exodus can answer that question, since that particular scenario isn't found in the Bible
You were provided multiple scriptures including Gods' 4th commandment from Exodus 20:8-11; Preparing for the Sabbath with the preparation day before the Sabbath (all Friday) to prepare for the Sabbath with shopping and buying and selling, cooking and cleaning etc. (Exodus 16:4-5; Exodus 16:23-28; Mark 15:42; Luke 23:54; John 19:31 etc). These can all be done before the Sabbath starts and Jesus letting us know it is lawful to do good on the Sabbath in Matthew 12:1-12. Yep everything has been shared from the scriptures with you alright that is applicable to your personal situation that is for sure. Post # 471 linked of course was posted from giving more detailed scripture responses to how we keep the Sabbath including when the Sabbath starts etc. These of course are all Gods' Word. So what you do with Gods' Word now is between you and God to work through.
Scripture does not state whether working voluntarily for a charity is work, and whether or not that is allowed a the Sabbath. People still need help on the Sabbath; helping others is doing good, which is allowed. Jesus said that if Pharisees had an animal that fell into a ditch on the Sabbath, they would pull it out again. An animal, a donkey in this example, represented income and enabled people to carry wood, food and themselves. If it fell into a ditch, people pulled it out again. No one said "wait a few hours; if it dies, it dies. You can't do any work today
Jesus says in His own words that it is lawful to do good deeds on the Sabbath. This was already posted from the scriptures in Matthew 12:1-12. This was already posted to you in in all my posts so I do not know what your trying to say here to be honest or why your even saying it.
LoveGodsWord said: The commandment includes, all work. All paid and unpaid work, all domestic work inclusive of cooking and cleaning, all buying and selling and work that can be done on any other day of the week.
That's your definition of work. Jesus' disciples were walking through a cornfield on the Sabbath, picking corn and eating it. Mark 2:23-27. When criticised, Jesus did not say to them, "they're right; you should wait until we get back, or you should have brought some food - prepared before the sabbath - with you". Instead, he told the critics of what David had done once when he was hungry - eaten consecrated bread. In other words, human needs come before "rules". He also said that the priests themselves desecrate the Sabbath, and yet are innocent of doing so, Matthew 12:5, and that if they had an animal that had fallen into a ditch on the sabbath, they would pull it out again, Matthew 12:11.
It seems that the Pharisees had ideas about what could and couldn't be done on the Sabbath - and Jesus pointed out that they were inconsistent in those attitudes.[/QUOTE]
No as posted earlier it is God's definition of work. You can read about it here...

Exodus 20:8-11 [8], Remember the SABBATH DAY, to KEEP IT HOLY. <Why?> Because God made it Holy for mankind and commands us to keep it as a Holy day) [9], Six days shalt thou labor, and do all thy work: [10], But the SEVENTH DAY IS THE SABBATH of the LORD thy God: in it thou shalt not do any work, thou, nor thy son, nor thy daughter, thy manservant, nor thy maidservant, nor thy cattle, nor thy stranger that is within thy gates: <WHY> [11], For in six days the LORD made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them is, and rested the SEVENTH DAY: wherefore the LORD BLESSED THE SABBATH, and HALLOWED IT.

Here perhaps it will help if you understand the Hebrew meaning of labor and work. Let's look at the scriptures and the Hebrew word meanings.

[9], Six days shall you labor, and do all your work:
[10], But the seventh day is the sabbath of the LORD your God: in it you shall not do any work, you, nor your son, nor your daughter, your manservant, nor your maidservant, nor your cattle, nor your stranger that is within your gates:

Hebrew word meanings for labor and work.

LABOR. H5647

Hebrew and Greek Dictionaries w/TVM, Strong - H5647
עָבַד (ʻâbad | aw-bad') to work (in any sense); by implication, to serve, till, (causatively) enslave, etc.KJV: [idiom] be, keep in bondage, be bondmen, bond-service, compel, do, dress, ear, execute, [phrase] husbandman, keep, labour(-ing man, bring to pass, (cause to, make to) serve(-ing, self), (be, become) servant(-s), do (use) service, till(-er), transgress (from margin), (set a) work, be wrought, worshipper,

WORK. H4399

Hebrew and Greek Dictionaries w/TVM, Strong - H4399
מְלָאכָה (mᵉlâʼkâh | mel-aw-kaw') Derivation: from the same as מֲלְאָךְ; Strong's: properly, deputyship, i.e. ministry; generally, employment (never servile) or work (abstractly or concretely); also property (as the result of labor) KJV: business, [phrase] cattle, [phrase] industrious, occupation, ([phrase] -pied), [phrase] officer, thing (made), use, (manner of) work((-man), -manship). Cognate Group: H4399 (business), H4401 (Malachi), H3815 (Lael), H4397 (ambassador), H4400 (message) Other Resources: BDB GHCL AHLB CWD TWOT: 1068b

So of course the scripture contexts are to to our own work that is our own working or labor to benefit our self is not to be done on the Sabbath. No cooking cleaning, no business of any kind no buying or selling of anything, no paid work no domestic work. Of course as we have always stated from the first post Jesus says it is lawful to do good on the Sabbath in Matthew 12:1-12. So yep sorry once again not my definitions. They are Gods definitions.
LoveGodsWord said: Every day is not the "seventh day" Sabbath commandments and a holy day of rest that God commands His people to keep as a holy day of rest where no work is to be done. If you are not keeping Gods' 4th commandment as a holy day of rest than your not keeping the Sabbath but I think you know this already deep down in your heart or you would not be asking these questions in your posts. Therefore we need to examine our selves according to the scriptures in 2 Corinthians 13:5 and see what it is that might be holding us back from completely believing and following God's Word. As posted earlier if the Sabbath to you is no different to any other day of the week than that should be a sign to you that something is wrong. Then perhaps you should seek to get rid of all those things that make Gods' Sabbath to you just any other day of the week.
Your response here...
So God wants me to be with him, abide in him, pray to him and worship him every day, but one day a week I should have a day off to worship him, abide in him, pray and be with him? Again, what is there on the Sabbath that I am not doing on all the other days of the week? Even corporate worship with other Christians happens at weekly Bible study groups.
Jesus says no one worships God by breaking Gods' commandments and of course this includes Gods' 4th commandment of the 10 commandments that in the new covenant give us the knowledge of what sin is when broken *Romans 3:20; Romans 7:7; James 2:10-11. (see also Matthew 15:3-9 and Matthew 7:21-23 and 1 John 2:3-4).
Again, what is there on the Sabbath that I am not doing on all the other days of the week? Even corporate worship with other Christians happens at weekly Bible study groups.
You already stated it earlier, cooking, cleaning, buying or selling anything as well as anything else you may do that is against the Sabbath that stops you from keeping the Sabbath as a holy day of rest. We of course can do good on the Sabbath to help others *Matthew 12:1-12
LoveGodsWord said: Yes your questions have been answered indeed through the scriptures.
Your response here...
They haven't, because there are no Scriptures which address the particular issue that I posed. Doing good is allowed on the Sabbath - today that includes, and involves, working for charities, feeding the hungry (which we are told to do in Scripture), helping the homeless (ditto), visiting the sick, (ditto again). Scripture does not address what to do about these scenarios on the Sabbath - it does not say "give the hungry extra food on Thursday so that they will not make anyone prepare anything on the Sabbath". It does not say, "leave the homeless, the poor, the sick, the suicidal and desperate to their own devices on the Sabbath while you sit at home praising God and being holy."
It is indeed lawful to do good on the Sabbath. Are you reading my posts? I have said this every post from the first post until now. It is not lawful to do any of our own work however and not lawful to do any cooking, cleaning, buying or selling anything as well as anything else you may do that is against the Sabbath that stops you from keeping the Sabbath as a holy day of rest. We of course can do good on the Sabbath to help others. The purpose of the Sabbath however is a day of rest to remember God as the creator of heaven and earth and a celebration of God as our creator and only true God of creation for a full day (not some of the day). We are to keep this day as a holy day of rest dedicated to God where we are no to do any of our own work to enter into His rest.
LoveGodsWord said: The fact that your asking these questions I believe is that God has convicted you on His 4th commandment.
Your response here...
You would be wrong in your belief. I am saying that there have been lots of threads on these forums where people get bashed for not keeping the Sabbath, yet I have seen none giving practical examples of HOW to do that.
No dear friend, if I was wrong in what I said to you then you would not even be here asking these questions. You were also given practical example of keeping the Sabbath in the very first post sent to you so your claims here are not true (post # 471 linked). No one is bashing you for not keeping the Sabbath as that is between you and God. You have also come here of your own free will so no one is forcing to to be here.
LoveGodsWord said: If you do not feel any peace in this regard than perhaps you may need to consider what exactly you do on Gods' Holy day and see if you can stop doing things you can do any other day of the week and dedicate your time to God.
Your response here...
All days are God's holy days. I dedicate all my time to God - and sitting around doing zilch on a Saturday because you believe that I should, is not going to make me any holier. In fact it might be disobedience, if God were to tell me to do something that day and my answer was "no; haven't you read the Bible?"
Absolutely not. There is not one scripture that says every day is a holy day. The only day God called a holy day of rest where no work is to be done (except for doing good Matthew 12:1-12) is the "seventh day" Sabbath *Genesis 2:1-3; Exodus 20:8-11 which God calls His people to keep as a holy day of rest in Gods' 4th commandment of the 10 commandments. According to Jesus no one worships God by breaking God's commandments in Matthew 15:3-9.

So perhaps you may need to prayerfully dig a little deeper.
 
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Matthew 21:13, which you have quoted a few times, has nothing at all to do with the Sabbath.
Jesus went into the temple after riding into Jerusalem, and overturned the tables of the money changers and those who sold doves.
Changing money and selling doves were legitimate things to do. Jews could not take money that had a pagan emperor's head on it into their temple, so it had to be changed for special temple coins, and any animal that was brought for sacrifice had to be inspected by priests. If it failed the inspection, the worshipper had to buy a "clean" animal from the priests.
But both these practices were being corrupted - money changers were charging more than they ought to, and some priests were apparently "failing" animals on their inspections so that a worshipper would have to be another one at whatever price the priest chose to sell it. As always, Jesus was on the side of the poor, or ordinary, people and against those who were practising extortion. That is the context in which Matt 21:13 is written - you have taken it out of that and applied it to teaching on the Sabbath. It is not related.
Matthew 21:13 was posted in the first post on practical things we do on the Sabbath. It says And said to them, It is written, My house shall be called the house of prayer; but you have made it a den of thieves. It was posted as an example of what can be done on the Sabbath.

Are you seriously trying to argue that we should not pray on the Sabbath especially in God's Church? God's people went to the synagogues (church's) and met together every Sabbath specifically to read the bible and pray to God which the scriptures teach were the custom of Jesus in Paul in Luke 4:16 and Acts of the Apostles 17:2.

Prayer was a very important part of the Sabbath as Paul shown in Acts of the Apostles 16:13 And on the sabbath we went out of the city by a river side, where prayer was wont to be made; and we sat down, and spake unto the women which resorted thither. So to claim that God does not want us to pray on the Sabbath is simply not biblical.
Mark 15:42 tells us that it was preparation day, the day before the Sabbath. Jews had this preparation day written into their law. I am not a Jew, and I have not been given a law which says I should have one. Elsewhere, you have written that the Sabbath was instituted by God before there were even Jews or Gentiles. In Genesis, God says nothing about a "day of preparation"; on the 6th day he was still creating. So it is inconsistent to say that the Sabbath has to be celebrated by gentiles because God gave it to everyone, and then quote a verse which describes how the JEWS were observing a day of preparation. This verse only states that it was the day of preparation - it does not say that all Gentiles have to observe a day of preparation. So you are taking it out of context and implying that everyone has to have a day of preparation because God later gave that instruction to the Jews whom he had led out of Egypt.
Mark 15:42 along with a bunch of other New testament scriptures and the origins of the Preparation day were posted in Exodus 16 and elsewhere to show that God expects us to prepare for the Sabbath by doing all of our work and buying and selling before the Sabbath starts. Are you really trying to argue now that Gods' 10 commandments are not a requirement for Christian living? That view is simply not biblical. We are not free now to lie, steal and murder what makes you think that you are now free to break God's 4th commandment when the scriptures teach us in the new covenant if we break anyone of God's 10 commandments we stand guilty before God of sin *James 2:10-11; Romans 7:7; 1 John 3:4; 1 John 2:3-4?

According to the scriptures there is now no more Jewish and Gentile believers as we are all now one in Christ. If we are not a part of God's ISRAEL we have no part in God's new covenant promise (Hebrews 8:10-12; from Jeremiah 31:31-24 and Ezekiel 36:24-27). Gentile believers are now grafted in while Jewish unbelievers are cut out (Romans 11:13-27) and a Jew, which is one outwardly; neither is that circumcision, which is outward in the flesh: But he is a Jew, which is one inwardly; and circumcision is that of the heart, in the spirit, and not in the letter; whose praise is not of men, but of God. Romans 3:28-29.

You forget dear friend, that there was no Jew, no Moses, no Israel and no law when Jesus says that he made the Sabbath for all mankind in Mark 2:27. Your claims above are all rejected as they are not based on the scriptures.

Hope this is helpful
 
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Yes, your question was already answered but it seems you did not like the answer shared with you from the scriptures so that is between you and God to work through as posted earlier,

You believe that you have answered my questions - including my specific one about doing charitable work on the Sabbath; I don't believe that you have.
Yet you are claiming that I simply "don't like" the answer - I don't think there's anything that can be said about that judgement of me.

You were provided multiple scriptures including Gods' 4th commandment from Exodus 20:8-11; Preparing for the Sabbath with the preparation day before the Sabbath (all Friday) to prepare for the Sabbath with shopping and buying and selling, cooking and cleaning etc. (Exodus 16:4-5; Exodus 16:23-28; Mark 15:42; Luke 23:54; John 19:31 etc). These can all be done before the Sabbath starts and Jesus letting us know it is lawful to do good on the Sabbath in Matthew 12:1-12. Yep everything has been shared from the scriptures with you alright that is applicable to your personal situation that is for sure.

Ok, show me where the Scripture says that I cannot do charitable work on the Sabbath. You have said, and I agree, that we CAN do good on the Sabbath - this charitable work is in fact the same as the work that I do all week. There is no difference.
Show me where Scripture says that I cannot cook on the Sabbath. I don't want a repetition of the Scripture which says that the Hebrews were told to collect double the amount if bread the day before - that was what THEY were told to do in that situation. It was about them trusting God. I want a Scripture which says that I, a Gentile in the West in the 22nd century, am not allowed to prepare a meal for myself or anyone else.
The disciples were not condemned when they picked and ate corn on the Sabbath.

Jesus says in His own words that it is lawful to do good deeds on the Sabbath. This was already posted from the scriptures in Matthew 12:1-12. This was already posted to you in in all my posts so I do not know what your trying to say here to be honest or why your even saying it.

I know, and I agree.
What I am saying is that the charity work that I do throughout the week IS good work - and good work is allowed on the Sabbath.

No as posted earlier it is God's definition of work. You can read about it here...

So why did Jesus allow what you say that God has disallowed?

Hebrew word meanings for labor and work.

LABOR. H5647

Hebrew and Greek Dictionaries w/TVM, Strong - H5647
עָבַד (ʻâbad | aw-bad') to work (in any sense); by implication, to serve, till, (causatively) enslave, etc.KJV: [idiom] be, keep in bondage, be bondmen, bond-service, compel, do, dress, ear, execute, [phrase] husbandman, keep, labour(-ing man, bring to pass, (cause to, make to) serve(-ing, self), (be, become) servant(-s), do (use) service, till(-er), transgress (from margin), (set a) work, be wrought, worshipper,

WORK. H4399

Hebrew and Greek Dictionaries w/TVM, Strong - H4399
מְלָאכָה (mᵉlâʼkâh | mel-aw-kaw') Derivation: from the same as מֲלְאָךְ; Strong's: properly, deputyship, i.e. ministry; generally, employment (never servile) or work (abstractly or concretely); also property (as the result of labor) KJV: business, [phrase] cattle, [phrase] industrious, occupation, ([phrase] -pied), [phrase] officer, thing (made), use, (manner of) work((-man), -manship). Cognate Group: H4399 (business), H4401 (Malachi), H3815 (Lael), H4397 (ambassador), H4400 (message) Other Resources: BDB GHCL AHLB CWD TWOT: 1068b

I don't do any of that.

So of course the scripture contexts are to to our own work that is our own working or labor to benefit our self is not to be done on the Sabbath. No cooking cleaning, no business of any kind no buying or selling of anything, no paid work no domestic work.

Then why did God, in Jesus, allow the disciples to pick and eat corn on the Sabbath?
Why didn't Jesus take with them the food that they would all need, or call down bread from heaven?
Jesus said that they would pull a sheep out of a ditch on the Sabbath. Yes, that could be said to be doing good to the animal, but livestock represented currency and wealth; they were benefitting themselves.

So yep sorry once again not my definitions. They are Gods definitions.

Well God broke his own definitions then.

It is indeed lawful to do good on the Sabbath. Are you reading my posts? I have said this every post from the first post until now.

I know. Are you reading mine - I agree with you.
The work that I do throughout the week is charitable work - work for the benefit of others, free of charge. I do good work on the Sabbath, as we are allowed to do. The only difference is that that is also my normal work as well.

It is not lawful to do any of our own work however and not lawful to do any cooking, cleaning, buying or selling anything as well as anything else you may do that is against the Sabbath that stops you from keeping the Sabbath as a holy day of rest.

The cooking, cleaning etc is your idea.
Jesus did not condemn his disciples for picking and eating on the Sabbath.

The purpose of the Sabbath however is a day of rest to remember God as the creator of heaven and earth and a celebration of God as our creator and only true God of creation for a full day (

I remember God every day - and worship him too.

Absolutely not. There is not one scripture that says every day is a holy day.

There doesn't need to be.
God made every day. God has given us his Holy Spirit who lives in us. We are to live for God every day; every day belongs to him, and anything that is set aside for him is Holy.

The people in the OT didn't have this relationship with God; we do.
The Holy Spirit was sometimes given, temporarily, to people in the OT; he is with us always.
We live in the New Covenant; we have been reconciled wo God through Jesus, we are told to live IN him and abide IN the vine. We are told that whatever we do is to be done for the Lord.
People in the OT didn't have this. They were told to set aside one day to specifically remember and rejoice in God.

I'm saying that you seem to be insisting that we live in OT times with the instructions that they were given, instead of in NT times when we, and everything we do and have, is from God and to his glory.
You no doubt agree that we have God with us every day, dedicate each day to him, live it in his strength and seek his will and guidance always - yet apparently we still need to take a whole day off in which to remember God.

God has not commanded me to do no charitable work on the Sabbath or to cook my meals the day before so that "I do nothing for myself" that day.
 
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LoveGodsWord

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You believe that you have answered my questions - including my specific one about doing charitable work on the Sabbath; I don't believe that you have.
Yet you are claiming that I simply "don't like" the answer - I don't think there's anything that can be said about that judgement of me.



Ok, show me where the Scripture says that I cannot do charitable work on the Sabbath. You have said, and I agree, that we CAN do good on the Sabbath - this charitable work is in fact the same as the work that I do all week. There is no difference.
Show me where Scripture says that I cannot cook on the Sabbath. I don't want a repetition of the Scripture which says that the Hebrews were told to collect double the amount if bread the day before - that was what THEY were told to do in that situation. It was about them trusting God. I want a Scripture which says that I, a Gentile in the West in the 22nd century, am not allowed to prepare a meal for myself or anyone else.
The disciples were not condemned when they picked and ate corn on the Sabbath.



I know, and I agree.
What I am saying is that the charity work that I do throughout the week IS good work - and good work is allowed on the Sabbath.



So why did Jesus allow what you say that God has disallowed?



I don't do any of that.



Then why did God, in Jesus, allow the disciples to pick and eat corn on the Sabbath?
Why didn't Jesus take with them the food that they would all need, or call down bread from heaven?
Jesus said that they would pull a sheep out of a ditch on the Sabbath. Yes, that could be said to be doing good to the animal, but livestock represented currency and wealth; they were benefitting themselves.



Well God broke his own definitions then.



I know. Are you reading mine - I agree with you.
The work that I do throughout the week is charitable work - work for the benefit of others, free of charge. I do good work on the Sabbath, as we are allowed to do. The only difference is that that is also my normal work as well.



The cooking, cleaning etc is your idea.
Jesus did not condemn his disciples for picking and eating on the Sabbath.



I remember God every day - and worship him too.



There doesn't need to be.
God made every day. God has given us his Holy Spirit who lives in us. We are to live for God every day; every day belongs to him, and anything that is set aside for him is Holy.

The people in the OT didn't have this relationship with God; we do.
The Holy Spirit was sometimes given, temporarily, to people in the OT; he is with us always.
We live in the New Covenant; we have been reconciled wo God through Jesus, we are told to live IN him and abide IN the vine. We are told that whatever we do is to be done for the Lord.
People in the OT didn't have this. They were told to set aside one day to specifically remember and rejoice in God.

I'm saying that you seem to be insisting that we live in OT times with the instructions that they were given, instead of in NT times when we, and everything we do and have, is from God and to his glory.
You no doubt agree that we have God with us every day, dedicate each day to him, live it in his strength and seek his will and guidance always - yet apparently we still need to take a whole day off in which to remember God.

God has not commanded me to do no charitable work on the Sabbath or to cook my meals the day before so that "I do nothing for myself" that day.

I am sorry dear friend I have nothing more to say to you. Everything you are asking here and elsewhere has already been addressed through the scriptures in other posts to you but it seems you do not believe what has been shared with you so I do not think there is anything further I can say to you now that will change your thinking. Remember though that the scriptures I have shared with you of course are God's Words and Gods' Words are not my words but God's so I will leave Gods' Word for you in the previous posts you can refer back to and leave the conversation with you and God to work through. Your also making statements and claims in your post here that makes me believe you are not reading my posts as I have never said you cannot do good on the Sabbath. Of course you are free to believe and do as you wish as everyone's salvation is between them and God as we all answer only to God come judgement day for the words of God we accept or reject according to John 12:47-48. For me only God's Word is true and we should believe and follow them according to the scriptures *Romans 3:4; Acts of the Apostles 5:29. This is because our own ideas and opinions or the opinions of others do not supersede Gods' Word. Perhaps if your unsure about these things you can continue to pray about them and spend more time in Gods' Word seeking to know Gods' will for your life. Don't forget it is not those who do many charitable works that receive God's salvation at the second coming according to Jesus in Matthew 7:21-23 but he that does the will of our heavenly Father.

May God bless you as you prayerfully seek Him in His Word :wave:
 
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BobRyan

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The Scripture says "on 6 days shall you labour"; I do not have a paid job therefore do not labour.

As I pointed out - even as someone who is retired (as I am) - I work all the time whether it be cleaning a room, or leaf blowing or raking something or shopping or fixing something around the house.... those sorts of work items - would not be appropriate in the sanctuary during a worship service - set apart , sanctified for holy time, for holy use.

That point remains - when I do things as a retired person that are work that is not proper for the worship service - then I do not do it in a worship service or on a day set apart for worship where no secular activity is appropriate Isaiah 58:13
 
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BobRyan

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But my question was specifically about how I keep the Sabbath.
My normal work is voluntary work for a charity; doing good is allowed on the Sabbath, therefore how, and why, should I refrain from that work when it is in fact allowed?

I listed some example of secular activities that we all engage in :

BobRyan said:
I have repeatedly given examples of work I do every week including shopping, buying groceries, fixing something around the house or with the car, cleaning up, leaf blowing etc that are not appropriate in church during a worship service - and both Saturday and Sunday groups also agree on this detail.

You appear to be saying you never do anything secular -- if that were true then you would be correct that it is all allowed on Sabbath.

As for me - everyone I know engages in secular activity at some point - including items I listed above as well as discussing topics like business, projects, politics, vacation plans you name it... an almost infinite variety of which you apparently are saying you never engage in.


doing all your work for the Lord and to his glory, Colossians 3:17

Like running your leaf blower -- is fine - but not in a context set apart for worship which means even the Sunday keeping Christians are not running leaf blowers in the middle of church services - Col 3:17 or not.

When the disciples walked through a corn field, picked some corn and ate it, did Jesus say "you should have prepared your Sabbath meals beforehand", or "you cannot do what you would not do in a service of worship"?

It says "as they were passing along" it does not say "to harvest breakfast". If a church group was walking to a meeting singing Christian songs and some picked a wild strawberry and ate it "as they were passing along" it is not sin in either OT or NT, either before-the-cross or after-the-cross.. Jesus shows that even before the cross that would not be sin.

No; it was the Pharisees who complained that they weren't keeping the Sabbath.

Agreed they had man false accusations to make against Christ and His disciples.

Matthew 12:7
But if you had known what this means, ‘I desire compassion, and not a sacrifice,’ you would not have condemned the innocent.

In response, Jesus told them about what King David did when he was hungry; he went into the temple and asked for the consecrated bread that "should" only have been eaten by priests, and ate it, Mark 2:23-27. He did not condemn his disciples or say that they should be worshipping instead of walking through a cornfield, eating the corn.

Agreed Jesus showed that even the OT rules allowed for those in God's service to do certain activities but he did not say "priests can repair their houses on Sabbath and it is not a sin". He did not say "priests can build roads on Sabbath and it is not a sin".

And Jesus was very clear that not one spec of the Law was being set aside in His teaching -

Matt 5:
17 “Do not think that I came to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I did not come to abolish but to fulfill. 18 For truly I say to you, until heaven and earth pass away, not the smallest letter or stroke shall pass from the Law until all is accomplished. 19 Whoever then annuls one of the least of these commandments, and teaches others to do the same, shall be called least in the kingdom of heaven; but whoever keeps and teaches them, he shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.

Jesus said:
Matt 19:17... but if you wish to enter into life, keep the commandments.”

Paul said
1 Cor 7:19 "what matters is keeping the Commandments of God"

John said
Rev 14:12 "the saints keep the Commandments of God and their faith in Jesus"

Is 66:23 says that for all eternity after the cross - in the New Earth - all mankind will still be keeping the Sabbath as a day of worship - dedicated to God.
 
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BobRyan

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Yes, and he speaks to me in other ways too; occasionally directly or through laying something on my heart.
If I believe he asks me to do something and it is a Saturday, I'm not going to say "no, I can't work on a Saturday". You may do as you please.

His Word says to me - things like this

Jesus said:
Matt 19:17... but if you wish to enter into life, keep the commandments.”

Paul said
1 Cor 7:19 "what matters is keeping the Commandments of God"

John said
Rev 14:12 "the saints keep the Commandments of God and their faith in Jesus"

Is 66:23 for all eternity after the cross - in the New Earth - all mankind will still be keeping the Sabbath as a day of worship - dedicated to God.
 
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