Biden continues to display his feeble grasp of the Constitution

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Bradskii

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Yes, as the *PEOPLE* see fit...

"On specific measures to reduce gun violence, there’s broad support for requiring criminal background checks on all gun buyers (90 percent) and passing “red flag” laws that allow police to take guns from people shown to be a danger to themselves or others (81 percent)." Fox News Poll: Most back gun restrictions after shootings, Trump ratings down

The people seem to want your access to firearms to be more rigorously controlled. Do you agree with the people?
 
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Oompa Loompa

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That is the most bizarre reading I've ever heard of this text:



Your interpretation is in other words:
"Free states need militias, the citizens of those states need guns to fight against the militias"

The usual understanding of the militia clause is:

"Because free states need militias, the citizens shall have the right to own weapons so that they can join the militia."

This does not include (and at this point, I don't want to get into) personal defense arguments for gun ownership rights.
Read it again.

"A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed."

There is a comma that separate the two separate clauses. Nowhere is there any mention that "the people" is the "well regulated militia". It says that the country needs a military for its defense and survival AND people will not be disarmed and left defenseless against the well regulated militia.
 
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Wolseley

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Who said they were going to fight the military head on? Ever hear of an insurgency? Worked very well for the Taliban against "the world's greatest military." If there was an uprising against the federal government, I would expect gorilla warfare.

Let's not be too hard on the civilians, Oompy....they get their ideas about military strategy from G.I. Joe movies and are incapable of thinking outside of the box. ;) Had they spent any time in unconventional warfare classes, they'd have a better idea of the myriad ways in which a much weaker force can wreak havoc on a larger, better-equipped one. :)
 
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renniks

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Only if lives are in real danger. The officer did what he could to defend the people in that lobby.
Oh, you mean like when the cops are having frozen water bottles, IEDs and such thrown at them? Like happened every night in Portland for months? And no " protesters" were killed.
 
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Bradskii

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Again: that's exactly what they thought about these guys.

Oh, good grief. Let's play Spot The NRA Member!

His forum piccie shows himself in camo gear.
He wants his signature to indicate that he was known as a crazy dude 'back in 'Nam'.
He posts pictures of 'little dudes' who 'just kept comin' when he was throwing everything at them.
He says things like 'Don't be too hard on the civilians...'

Is this satire? Please tell me it's satire.
 
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Oompa Loompa

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"On specific measures to reduce gun violence, there’s broad support for requiring criminal background checks on all gun buyers (90 percent) and passing “red flag” laws that allow police to take guns from people shown to be a danger to themselves or others (81 percent)." Fox News Poll: Most back gun restrictions after shootings, Trump ratings down

The people seem to want your access to firearms to be more rigorously controlled. Do you agree with the people?
People who support red flag laws are ignorant on what they entail.
 
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Oompa Loompa

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Let's not be too hard on the civilians, Oompy....they get their ideas about military strategy from G.I. Joe movies and are incapable of thinking outside of the box. ;) Had they spent any time in unconventional warfare classes, they'd have a better idea of the myriad ways in which a much weaker force can wreak havoc on a larger, better-equipped one. :)
Like the vast number of OIF and OEF veterans who fought ISIS, the Taliban, and Al Queda?
 
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Wolseley

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Nowhere is there any mention that "the people" is the "well regulated militia".

How do we explain, then, the fact that all other nine Amendments in the Bill of Rights pertain to all the People, with no specification whatsoever?

The Founders and the courts have also consistently ruled that the entire American People is the militia---not just State National Guard units.
 
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Bradskii

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People who support red flag laws are ignorant on what they entail.

I thought we should be listening to 'the people'. I guess what's actually meant is 'people who agree with me'. Glad we have that sorted out.
 
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Oompa Loompa

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How do we explain, then, the fact that all other nine Amendments in the Bill of Rights pertain to all the People, with no specification whatsoever?

The Founders and the courts have also consistently ruled that the entire American People is the militia---not just State National Guard units.
Reference please. Also, are people not "people" unless they are in a well regulated militia?
 
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Oompa Loompa

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I thought we should be listening to 'the people'. I guess what's actually meant is 'people who agree with me'. Glad we have that sorted out.
I am willing to assert the the majority of the American people do not support "red flag" laws. Most of them who do support them are ignorant on what they entail. They are in violation of due process under the law.
 
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Wolseley

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Oh, good grief. Let's play Spot The NRA Member!

^_^

A) I am not a member of the NRA.

His forum piccie shows himself in camo gear.

B) The profile picture was taken when I was on active duty in the Air Force; the uniform was a set of extreme hot-weather utilities, not cammies.

He wants his signature to indicate that he was known as a crazy dude 'back in 'Nam'.

C) No, I was never in Vietnam; served with a lot of guys who were, though. I was in Beirut, and a few other nasty places, however. The signature I use because the VA has rated me as 100% disabled due to PTSD, Adjustment Disorder, and a raft of physical ailments. I spend every day in fairly stringent pain, I don't sleep well at night, and at one point, I was hairs' breadth away from eating the barrel of a .40-caliber pistol. Fortunately for all of you fine people, VA helped me out with that, and so now you all get to enjoy my sparkling personality, scintillating wit, and profoundly sapient insights.

He posts pictures of 'little dudes' who 'just kept comin' when he was throwing everything at them.

D) The "little dudes" is a lot more G-rated than what they were usually called during the war. :) If I called them those names, I'd be suspended....again. Besides, posting pictures of the VC helped to get my point across.

He says things like 'Don't be too hard on the civilians...'

Is being called a civilian offensive to you? If so, please accept my apologies. What would you prefer to be called?

Is this satire? Please tell me it's satire.

No, not at all.
 
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Bradskii

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I am willing to assert the the majority of the American people do not support "red flag" laws.

I'd suggest that as gun control is such a well discussed topic that people are very well aware of what's involved. 'Red flags' are what I see when people post piccies of themsleves in camouflage gear and talk of ordinary citizens as 'civilians'. And, incidently, think that small scale para-millitary actions are carried out by apes. Maybe you were confused because Charlton Heston was in the first film.
 
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Wolseley

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'Red flags' are what I see when people post piccies of themsleves in camouflage gear and talk of ordinary citizens as 'civilians'.

As I said, they weren't cammies. :) And in my universe, there are three types of people: military personnel, veterans, and civilians. The last group will never understand the first two, because they have no concept unless they've been there.

And, incidently, think that small scale para-millitary actions are carried out by apes. Maybe you were confused because Charlton Heston was in the first film.

I realize that last comment wasn't addressed specifically at me, but you'll have to trust me when I tell you that I don't have the foggiest idea of what you're talking about, mate. ;)
 
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Bradskii

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As I said, they weren't cammies. :) And in my universe, there are three types of people: military personnel, veterans, and civilians. The last group will never understand the first two, because they have no concept unless they've been there.



I realize that last comment wasn't addressed specifically at me, but you'll have to trust me when I tell you that I don't have the foggiest idea of what you're talking about, mate. ;)

There's no denying that.
 
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Tanj

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Government alphabet agencies have an awful track record of gunning down unarmed civilians....Ashlii Babbitt is one example; Vicki Weaver is another. (Another few inches one way, and the government sniper would have murdered a 10-month old infant.)

They also like to smash down doors and stick guns in the faces of dangerous, unstable criminals, like this kid here:

View attachment 298434

Nice to see you defending the rights of illegal immigrants to stay in the USA Wolseley.

Alan Diaz, who took Elian Gonzalez photo, dies at 71 - CNN
 
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Wolseley

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Oompa Loompa

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I'd suggest that as gun control is such a well discussed topic that people are very well aware of what's involved. 'Red flags' are what I see when people post piccies of themsleves in camouflage gear and talk of ordinary citizens as 'civilians'. And, incidently, think that small scale para-millitary actions are carried out by apes. Maybe you were confused because Charlton Heston was in the first film.
Red flag laws mean that anybody can make an anonymous claim against anyone that they are a threat and the state will seize their weapons until that individual can somehow prove to a court that they are not a threat. This is some Orwellian "thought police" stuff right there. There has already been cases in which spiteful girlfriends made false accusations and had others guns seized.
 
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