Old Mosaic Law Covenant Obsolete!

BrotherJJ · Apr 30, 2021

Adam sinned/transgressed heavens law long before the Mosaic/covenant at Sinai was cut.

The Mosaic covenant was cut/established with one nation only, Israel. Their purpose was to be a set apart nation of priests, mediators between God & mankind (Ex 19:6). The covenant was a marriage contract.

Even though on many occasions they failed & were ultimately divorced by the Lord (Jer 3:8). Their overall purpose was a success, in as much as, the old/now obsolete Mosaic law covenant taught (Gal 3:24-26) that all are sinners.

Heavens required wage/price/payment owed for sin (even 1) is, DEATH (Rom 6:23)

Post-conversion/salvation your sins (ALL) Past-Present-Future are Forgiven! (Rom 8:1, 1 Jn 2:12, Eph 1:7, 4:32, Col 3:13, Heb 9:12, 10:14, 13:20 to name a few)

This doesn't mean post-conversion/salvation sin never carries a consequence. Having said that, loss of salvation isn't one on those consequence (1 Cor 3:15).

Good works, obedience etc. Are the evidence/result of faith not the cause of your salvation.

Consequence from sinning post-conversion/salvation could manifest itself, in many different ways. A health issue, a broken relationship, disease, lost rewards earned etc.

There is only 1 unforgivable sin = lack of Faith/REJECTING Christ's sin atoning sacrifice & resurrection

Good works & obedience are the evidence of your faith not the cause of your salvation.

Rom 1:5 "Through him we received grace" & apostleship "to call all the Gentiles to the obedience" "that comes from faith" for his name’s sake.
(MY NOTE: Faith in Jesus sin atoning work & resurrection lead to our obedience, for HIS Name's sake)

Romans 16:26 but now revealed and made known through the prophetic writings by the command of the eternal God, "so that all the Gentiles might come to the obedience" "that comes from faith"
(MY NOTE: Thru our Faith in Jesus sin atoning work & resurrection. Christ's Gift of the indwelling Holy Spirit will lead us obedient/godly behavior.)

Act 3:25 Unto you first God, having raised up his Son Jesus, sent him to bless you, in turning away every one of you from his iniquities.
(NOTE: It's Faith in the risen Christ's sin atonement. That frees believers from sins grip & enables them to repent/turn from their sin)

Rom 2:4 Or despisest thou the riches "of his goodness" and forbearance and longsuffering; not knowing that "the goodness of God leadeth thee to repentance"?
(NOTE: It's thru the GOODNESS of GOD not thru OUR OWN great work of sin repentance, obedience or self-control. That we REPENT/change our thinking/course. It's salvations seal of indwelling Holy Spirit that leads us to REPENT/change our thinking outlook & direction).

1 Jn 1:8 If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.
(NOTE: Anyone that believes they can conquer their own sin nature, without Gods help is mistaken)

Final thought;
When believers make salvation's focus about their sin or lack thereof. They take the focus off of Christ, His work, what He did at Calvary.

All praise, glory & honor belong to our Lord/God & Savior, Jesus the Christ!

The New Better covenant that Christ mediates is tied to the promise/covenant the LORD made to Abraham 430 years before Sinai.

BTW: The paradise that OT believers went to is called Abrahams bosom (Lk 16:19-31, not Moses) The marriage set in heaven is at Abrahams table (Matt 8:11, not Moses). Not to take anything away from Moses, scripture proclaims Moses was a faithful servant of the Lord. (Num 12:7, Heb 3:5)

corinth77777 · Apr 30, 2021

BrotherJJ said:
Adam sinned/transgressed heavens law long before the Mosaic/covenant at Sinai was cut.

The Mosaic covenant was cut/established with one nation only, Israel. Their purpose was to be a set apart nation of priests, mediators between God & mankind (Ex 19:6). The covenant was a marriage contract.

Even though on many occasions they failed & were ultimately divorced by the Lord (Jer 3:8). Their overall purpose was a success, in as much as, the old/now obsolete Mosaic law covenant taught (Gal 3:24-26) that all are sinners.

Heavens required wage/price/payment owed for sin (even 1) is, DEATH (Rom 6:23)

Post-conversion/salvation your sins (ALL) Past-Present-Future are Forgiven! (Rom 8:1, 1 Jn 2:12, Eph 1:7, 4:32, Col 3:13, Heb 9:12, 10:14, 13:20 to name a few)

This doesn't mean post-conversion/salvation sin never carries a consequence. Having said that, loss of salvation isn't one on those consequence (1 Cor 3:15).

Good works, obedience etc. Are the evidence/result of faith not the cause of your salvation.

Consequence from sinning post-conversion/salvation could manifest itself, in many different ways. A health issue, a broken relationship, disease, lost rewards earned etc.

There is only 1 unforgivable sin = lack of Faith/REJECTING Christ's sin atoning sacrifice & resurrection

Good works & obedience are the evidence of your faith not the cause of your salvation.

Rom 1:5 "Through him we received grace" & apostleship "to call all the Gentiles to the obedience" "that comes from faith" for his name’s sake.
(MY NOTE: Faith in Jesus sin atoning work & resurrection lead to our obedience, for HIS Name's sake)

Romans 16:26 but now revealed and made known through the prophetic writings by the command of the eternal God, "so that all the Gentiles might come to the obedience" "that comes from faith"
(MY NOTE: Thru our Faith in Jesus sin atoning work & resurrection. Christ's Gift of the indwelling Holy Spirit will lead us obedient/godly behavior.)

Act 3:25 Unto you first God, having raised up his Son Jesus, sent him to bless you, in turning away every one of you from his iniquities.
(NOTE: It's Faith in the risen Christ's sin atonement. That frees believers from sins grip & enables them to repent/turn from their sin)

Rom 2:4 Or despisest thou the riches "of his goodness" and forbearance and longsuffering; not knowing that "the goodness of God leadeth thee to repentance"?
(NOTE: It's thru the GOODNESS of GOD not thru OUR OWN great work of sin repentance, obedience or self-control. That we REPENT/change our thinking/course. It's salvations seal of indwelling Holy Spirit that leads us to REPENT/change our thinking outlook & direction).

1 Jn 1:8 If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.
(NOTE: Anyone that believes they can conquer their own sin nature, without Gods help is mistaken)

Final thought;
When believers make salvation's focus about their sin or lack thereof. They take the focus off of Christ, His work, what He did at Calvary.

All praise, glory & honor belong to our Lord/God & Savior, Jesus the Christ!

The New Better covenant that Christ mediates is tied to the promise/covenant the LORD made to Abraham 430 years before Sinai.

BTW: The paradise that OT believers went to is called Abrahams bosom (Lk 16:19-31, not Moses) The marriage set in heaven is at Abrahams table (Matt 8:11, not Moses). Not to take anything away from Moses, scripture proclaims Moses was a faithful servant of the Lord. (Num 12:7, Heb 3:5)

As to "Loss of Salvation" It depend on what one is saved From.
One may have been saved from trespasses and sin...and quicken to life.

That they are now reconciled is one type of being saved.

But now having been reconciled by His death...scripture says How much more will you be saved by His life.....

And Gal 2;16 is an expression of that sentiment.

Salvation according to Willard is a life...and according to scripture eternal life is to know God and Jesus Christ....

I believe they are the reward....can a reward be your salvation in a life of merely existing?
1 peter 1:8

I believe it's about the whole person being Saved ....Body Soul Spirit...
And when we are given the Spirit we are to obey...For He gives us Eternal Life....but if you notice in that passage....that eternal life is "in" his son. It needs to be worked out.....therefore the passage work out thy salvation. Meaning live out Christ's Life.

I DO NOT BELIEVE ONE TRULY KNOWS WHAT THEY HAVE UNTIL THEY WALK IN IT.
That's why it's impossible to please God without faith.
1 John 5:13
"I write these things to you who believe in the name of the Son of God so that you may know that you have eternal life."

So asked what did He write?

3For this is the love of God, that we keep His commandments. And His commandments are not burdensome, 4because everyone born of God overcomes the world. And this is the victory that has overcome the world: our faith.

BrotherJJ · Apr 30, 2021

1 Jn 2:3, 3:23 & 5:4-5 commandments parsed

People often add there own contextual application to 1 Jn 2:3, 3:23 & 5:4-5 IE the 10 commandments.

Originally scripture wasn't written via chapter & verse, that's added later by translators. Taking one verse out of context invariably leads to doctrinal misinterpretations.

1 Jn 2:3 And hereby we do know that we know him, if we keep his commandments.
(NOTE: For John's intended reference to keep his commandments. You must READ ON!)

1 Jn 3:23 And this is his commandment, That we should believe on the name of his Son Jesus Christ, and love one another, as he gave us commandment.
(NOTE: What commandment is 1 Jn 2 referring to? Everyone who believes in Christ & LOVES his brother is born of God. Also see what Jesus say's in Matt 22:36-40 posted below.)

1 Jn 5:
1 Whosoever believeth that Jesus is the Christ is born of God: and every one that loveth him that begat loveth him also that is begotten of him.
(MY NOTE: Whoever BELIEVES Jesus is the Christ (not keeps Mosaic laws) is born of God)

2 By this we know that we love the children of God, when we love God, and keep his commandments.
(MY NOTE: Reread 1 Jn 3:3 Everyone who believes in Christ & LOVES his brother is born of God!)

3 For this is the love of God, that we keep his commandments: and his commandments are not grievous.
(MY NOTE: Love Christ/God & Love your brother these are the commandments John is teaching)

4 For whatsoever is born of God overcometh the world: and this is the victory that overcometh the world, even our faith.
(MY NOTE: Does keeping Mosaic law or FAITH bring the victory that overcomes? It's FAITH!)

5 Who is he that overcometh the world, but he that believeth that Jesus is the Son of God?
(NOTE: How does someone overcome the sins of the world? Rereading Vs 2: via FAITH! Faith in what? Reread 1 Jn 3: Believe on Jesus the Son of God He's the promised Messiah/atonement!)

NT law commandments?

Matt: 22:
36 Master, which is the great commandment in the law?

37 Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind.

38 This is the first and great commandment.
(NOTE: Love God)

39 And the second is like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.

40 On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets.
(NOTE: #2 Love your brother. Does Jesus mention any of the Mosaic 10? NOPE!)

Rom 13:
8 Owe no man any thing, but to love one another: for he that loveth another hath fulfilled the law.
(NOTE: Love fulfills the law)

9 For this, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not kill, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness, Thou shalt not covet; and if there be any other commandment, it is briefly comprehended in this saying, namely, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.
(NOTE: If you truly Love someone. You won't kill, steal from, bear false witness aginst, covet their stuff, etc)

10 Love worketh no ill to his neighbour: therefore love is the fulfilling of the law.
(NOTE: If you truly Love someone. You won't kill, steal from, bear false witness aginst, covet their stuff etc)

Gal 6:2 Bear ye one another's burdens, and so fulfil the law of Christ.
NOTE: Loving your brother fulfills the law of Christ)

What's the commandments of Christ? The same person (Christ) that wrote the Mosaic 10 commandments. Give's 2 NT believers 2 commandments: Love your God 1st & your brother.

Jn 13:
34 A new commandment I give unto you, That ye love one another; as I have loved you, that ye also love one another.
(NOTE: What's the commandment/law of Christ? Love your brother)

35 By this shall all men know that ye are my disciples, if ye have love one to another.
(NOTE: Love your brother)

Ja 2:8 If ye fulfil the royal law according to the scripture, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself, ye do well:
(NOTE: Love your brother)

Acts 4:12 Neither is there salvation in any other: for there is none other name under heaven given among men, whereby we must be saved.
(MY NOTE: That name is Jesus the Christ, not Moses)

Tit 2:11 For the grace of God that bringeth salvation hath appeared to all men,
(MY NOTE Grace has a Name - Jesus the Christ!)

corinth77777 · Apr 30, 2021

BrotherJJ said:
1 Jn 2:3, 3:23 & 5:4-5 commandments parsed

People often add there own contextual application to 1 Jn 2:3, 3:23 & 5:4-5 IE the 10 commandments.

Originally scripture wasn't written via chapter & verse, that's added later by translators. Taking one verse out of context invariably leads to doctrinal misinterpretations.

1 Jn 2:3 And hereby we do know that we know him, if we keep his commandments.
(NOTE: For John's intended reference to keep his commandments. You must READ ON!)

1 Jn 3:23 And this is his commandment, That we should believe on the name of his Son Jesus Christ, and love one another, as he gave us commandment.
(NOTE: What commandment is 1 Jn 2 referring to? Everyone who believes in Christ & LOVES his brother is born of God. Also see what Jesus say's in Matt 22:36-40 posted below.)

1 Jn 5:
1 Whosoever believeth that Jesus is the Christ is born of God: and every one that loveth him that begat loveth him also that is begotten of him.
(MY NOTE: Whoever BELIEVES Jesus is the Christ (not keeps Mosaic laws) is born of God)

2 By this we know that we love the children of God, when we love God, and keep his commandments.
(MY NOTE: Reread 1 Jn 3:3 Everyone who believes in Christ & LOVES his brother is born of God!)

3 For this is the love of God, that we keep his commandments: and his commandments are not grievous.
(MY NOTE: Love Christ/God & Love your brother these are the commandments John is teaching)

4 For whatsoever is born of God overcometh the world: and this is the victory that overcometh the world, even our faith.
(MY NOTE: Does keeping Mosaic law or FAITH bring the victory that overcomes? It's FAITH!)

5 Who is he that overcometh the world, but he that believeth that Jesus is the Son of God?
(NOTE: How does someone overcome the sins of the world? Rereading Vs 2: via FAITH! Faith in what? Reread 1 Jn 3: Believe on Jesus the Son of God He's the promised Messiah/atonement!)

NT law commandments?

Matt: 22:
36 Master, which is the great commandment in the law?

37 Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind.

38 This is the first and great commandment.
(NOTE: Love God)

39 And the second is like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.

40 On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets.
(NOTE: #2 Love your brother. Does Jesus mention any of the Mosaic 10? NOPE!)

Rom 13:
8 Owe no man any thing, but to love one another: for he that loveth another hath fulfilled the law.
(NOTE: Love fulfills the law)

9 For this, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not kill, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness, Thou shalt not covet; and if there be any other commandment, it is briefly comprehended in this saying, namely, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.
(NOTE: If you truly Love someone. You won't kill, steal from, bear false witness aginst, covet their stuff, etc)

10 Love worketh no ill to his neighbour: therefore love is the fulfilling of the law.
(NOTE: If you truly Love someone. You won't kill, steal from, bear false witness aginst, covet their stuff etc)

Gal 6:2 Bear ye one another's burdens, and so fulfil the law of Christ.
NOTE: Loving your brother fulfills the law of Christ)

What's the commandments of Christ? The same person (Christ) that wrote the Mosaic 10 commandments. Give's 2 NT believers 2 commandments: Love your God 1st & your brother.

Jn 13:
34 A new commandment I give unto you, That ye love one another; as I have loved you, that ye also love one another.
(NOTE: What's the commandment/law of Christ? Love your brother)

35 By this shall all men know that ye are my disciples, if ye have love one to another.
(NOTE: Love your brother)

Ja 2:8 If ye fulfil the royal law according to the scripture, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself, ye do well:
(NOTE: Love your brother)

Acts 4:12 Neither is there salvation in any other: for there is none other name under heaven given among men, whereby we must be saved.
(MY NOTE: That name is Jesus the Christ, not Moses)

Tit 2:11 For the grace of God that bringeth salvation hath appeared to all men,
(MY NOTE Grace has a Name - Jesus the Christ!)

BrotherJJ · Apr 30, 2021

corinth77777 said:
Do you believe that being born from above is different than eternal life?

We had a discussion in a previous thread. I have no interest in another fruitless discussion unrelated to the OP, with you. I stand behind the OP & will continue to post as I feel lead. Best wishes, may His grace be multiplied to you & yours. JJ

corinth77777 · Apr 30, 2021

That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit. ROMANS 8:4

There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.

2 For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death.

3 For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh:

4 That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.

corinth77777 · Apr 30, 2021

Eph 4:29
Do not let any unwholesome talk come out of your mouths, but only what is helpful for building others up according to their needs, that it may benefit those who listen.

corinth77777 · Apr 30, 2021

JESUS BECAME THE SOURCE OF SALVATION. THE LAW IS NO LONGER THE SOURCE.

BUT THAT DOES NOT MEAN ITS NOT THE COURSE.

SCRIPTURE SAYS:
27Where, then, is boasting? It is excluded. On what principle? On that of works? No, but on that of faith. 28For we maintain that a man is justified by faith apart from works of the law.29Is God the God of Jews only? Is He not the God of Gentiles too? Yes, of Gentiles too, 30since there is only one God, who will justify the circumcised by faith and the uncircumcised through that same faith.

31Do we, then, nullify the law by this faith? Certainly not! Instead, we uphold the law.

BrotherJJ · May 1, 2021

Faith not law has always been the source of salvation.

Taking one verse out of context invariably leads to doctrinal misinterpretations.

Rom 3:31 we establish the law parsed with context.

When dissecting any verse of scripture. Ask yourself, of whom, to whom, with what words, what time, where, to what intent, with what circumstances, considering what is written before & what follows any single verse context.
^^^Myles Coverdale, Bible theologian/translator^^^

So, ask: Who's writing? Paul, Rom 1:1

Written to NT believer's (Rom 1:7) in Christ's sin payment & resurrection.

What are the circumstances? NT believers mixing self righteousness via adherence to Mosaic law keeping vs Christ's righteousness imputed via Faith in His sin atoning death, burial & resurrection

What’s the context BEFORE? God, faith, righteousness/unrighteousness, jew/gentile, justification, law.

What's the context after? Christ's, Righteousness imputed via Faith. Rom Chapter 4

We should never take one verse out of context & try to build a doctrine.

Rom 3:31 Do we then make void the law through faith? God forbid: yea, we establish the law.

I'll begin the parsing here:
20 By the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight: for by the law is the knowledge of sin.
(NOTE: No one will be justified = judicially declared righteous by a sovereign God. Thru any self works)

21 But now the righteousness of God without the law is manifested, being witnessed by the law and the prophets;
(NOTE: The righteousness of God is now establish without any deeds required via Mosaic law)

22 Even the righteousness of God which is by faith of Jesus Christ unto all and upon all them that believe: for there is no difference:
(NOTE: The righteousness of God is established by the obedient "faith OF Jesus Christ" & is imputed to all them that believe in His sin atoning work)

23 For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God;

24 Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus:
(NOTE: Justified FREELY via God's grace, thru faith placed in Christ's sin redemptive work, we become justified = Judicially declared righteous by a sovereign God.)

25 Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God;
(NOTE: Propitiation =reconciliation/atonement/appease/satisfy. Christ's righteousness is declared the sins propitiation. And is imputed onto believers via faith in his death, burial & resurrection)

26 To declare, I say, at this time his righteousness: that he might be just, and the justifier of him which believeth in Jesus.
(NOTE: This verse declares the righteousness of Jesus & proclaims Him as the justifer of those who: believe/have faith in Him > His sin payment & resurrection. Not those that follow/keep Mosaic law)

27 Where is boasting then? It is excluded. By what law? of works? Nay: but by the law of faith.
(NOTE: By the LAW of FAITH)

28 Therefore we conclude that a man is justified by faith without the deeds of the law.
(NOTE: Man is justified = judicially declared righteous by a sovereign God > = by FAITH without the deeds of the law).

29 Is he the God of the Jews only? is he not also of the Gentiles? Yes, of the Gentiles also:
(NOTE: He's God of BOTH, jew & gentile)

30 Seeing it is one God, which shall justify the circumcision by faith, and uncircumcision through faith.
(NOTE: God justifies = Declared righteous. BOTH the circumcision = JEW, by/through "FAITH". And uncircumcision = GENTILES through/by "FAITH")

31 Do we then make void the law through faith? God forbid: yea, we establish the law.
(NOTE: If you'll read verse 31 in context. Its the new covenant LAW of FAITH that's being established, just "REREAD vs 27".)

corinth77777 · May 1, 2021

One is taught
They did not know the mystery....
And it's obvious they were given a covenant.
Otherwise one would not have to explain in Hebrews a better covenant with better promises.
No one would also declare that it was not by deeds of the Law....if they knew that.

So while Jesus is the source of salvation
It still doesnt stop the law[10] from being the course.

But Source [Jesus] is the Way/not the law after the flesh as scripture states ....The main question is what will we do with His Spirit? For eternal life is in His Son.....We need to obey it that our character is changed so what we do matches our character as it's being transformed.
Then if one can see this.....they can see How the law is fullfilled in those who walk not after the flesh but the Spirit. Its about life with God that begins now. So if we are in God's presence we know we have confidence in anything that comes are way...even overcoming this world.

No one ever said man is Justified by[source] the deeds of the law......We are Justified by the faith of Jesus....because in Him we establish the law through faith.

" in order that the righteous requirement of the law might be fully met in us, who do not live according to the flesh but according to the Spirit."Romans 8:4

corinth77777 · May 1, 2021

Romans 8
1Therefore, there is now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus.For in Christ Jesus the law of the Spirit of life set you free from the law of sin and death. 3For what the law was powerless to do in that it was weakened by the flesh, God did by sending His own Son in the likeness of sinful man, as an offering for sin. He thus condemned sin in the flesh, 4so that the righteous standard of the law might be fulfilled in us, who do not walk according to the flesh but according to the Spirit.

What does scripture say.......that the source is
Walking after the Spirit..........

And what is the course? the righteous standard of the law.

corinth77777 · May 1, 2021

What did Jesus say to this man in Mark?

And when he was gone forth into the way, there came one running, and kneeled to him, and asked him, Good Master, what shall I do that I may inherit eternal life?

18 And Jesus said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God.

19 Thou knowest the commandments, Do not commit adultery, Do not kill, Do not steal, Do not bear false witness, Defraud not, Honour thy father and mother.

20 And he answered and said unto him, Master, all these have I observed from my youth.

21 Then Jesus beholding him loved him, and said unto him, One thing thou lackest: go thy way, sell whatsoever thou hast, and give to the poor, and thou shalt have treasure in heaven: and come, take up the cross, and follow me.

22 And he was sad at that saying, and went away grieved: for he had great possessions.

23 And Jesus looked round about, and saith unto his disciples, How hardly shall they that have riches enter into the kingdom of God!

Jesus knew His heart....my question is was He keeping the Law as the pharasees.
Another words if he could get away with something if no one was looking....would he do it?

Well we know that Jesus said he was lacking one thing.......and my personal thought is that it was: A new heart.

corinth77777 · May 1, 2021

BrotherJJ said:
Faith not law has always been the source of salvation.

Taking one verse out of context invariably leads to doctrinal misinterpretations.

Rom 3:31 we establish the law parsed with context.

When dissecting any verse of scripture. Ask yourself, of whom, to whom, with what words, what time, where, to what intent, with what circumstances, considering what is written before & what follows any single verse context.
^^^Myles Coverdale, Bible theologian/translator^^^

So, ask: Who's writing? Paul, Rom 1:1

Written to NT believer's (Rom 1:7) in Christ's sin payment & resurrection.

What are the circumstances? NT believers mixing self righteousness via adherence to Mosaic law keeping vs Christ's righteousness imputed via Faith in His sin atoning death, burial & resurrection

What’s the context BEFORE? God, faith, righteousness/unrighteousness, jew/gentile, justification, law.

What's the context after? Christ's, Righteousness imputed via Faith. Rom Chapter 4

We should never take one verse out of context & try to build a doctrine.

Rom 3:31 Do we then make void the law through faith? God forbid: yea, we establish the law.

I'll begin the parsing here:
20 By the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight: for by the law is the knowledge of sin.
(NOTE: No one will be justified = judicially declared righteous by a sovereign God. Thru any self works)

21 But now the righteousness of God without the law is manifested, being witnessed by the law and the prophets;
(NOTE: The righteousness of God is now establish without any deeds required via Mosaic law)

22 Even the righteousness of God which is by faith of Jesus Christ unto all and upon all them that believe: for there is no difference:
(NOTE: The righteousness of God is established by the obedient "faith OF Jesus Christ" & is imputed to all them that believe in His sin atoning work)

23 For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God;

24 Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus:
(NOTE: Justified FREELY via God's grace, thru faith placed in Christ's sin redemptive work, we become justified = Judicially declared righteous by a sovereign God.)

25 Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God;
(NOTE: Propitiation =reconciliation/atonement/appease/satisfy. Christ's righteousness is declared the sins propitiation. And is imputed onto believers via faith in his death, burial & resurrection)

26 To declare, I say, at this time his righteousness: that he might be just, and the justifier of him which believeth in Jesus.
(NOTE: This verse declares the righteousness of Jesus & proclaims Him as the justifer of those who: believe/have faith in Him > His sin payment & resurrection. Not those that follow/keep Mosaic law)

27 Where is boasting then? It is excluded. By what law? of works? Nay: but by the law of faith.
(NOTE: By the LAW of FAITH)

28 Therefore we conclude that a man is justified by faith without the deeds of the law.
(NOTE: Man is justified = judicially declared righteous by a sovereign God > = by FAITH without the deeds of the law).

29 Is he the God of the Jews only? is he not also of the Gentiles? Yes, of the Gentiles also:
(NOTE: He's God of BOTH, jew & gentile)

30 Seeing it is one God, which shall justify the circumcision by faith, and uncircumcision through faith.
(NOTE: God justifies = Declared righteous. BOTH the circumcision = JEW, by/through "FAITH". And uncircumcision = GENTILES through/by "FAITH")

31 Do we then make void the law through faith? God forbid: yea, we establish the law.
(NOTE: If you'll read verse 31 in context. Its the new covenant LAW of FAITH that's being established, just "REREAD vs 27".)

Hate to say this- It's in context and it seems you are taking it out of context...

And anyone that reads it and humbles themselves can see that.

You cannot subtract the moral law...one upholds those standards through faith.

Let's look at what you are saying using the substitution method .

But first why would they nullify faith by faith ?
That makes no sense.

Here is verse 27 ...quoting you
27 Where is boasting then? It is excluded. By what law? of works? Nay: but by the law of faith.
(NOTE: By the LAW of FAITH)
Yes boasting is excluded by faith....for man cant say they did anything God owes them for..be atitudey.....
But that has nothing to do with establishing the Law through faith...

Verse 30 your words
31 Do we then make void the law through faith? God forbid: yea, we establish the law.
(NOTE: If you'll read verse 31 in context. Its the new covenant LAW of FAITH that's being established, just "REREAD vs 27".
Let's rewrite this substituting your words:
Do we then make void [the law of faith] through faith
Now does that make sense?....they are talking about the deeds of the law.....and the circumcised vs uncircumcised , those with the law vs those without the law.

What the law of faith does.....is cleanse the heart.... so that we can live righteous before God.
1 John 1:7
But if we walk in the light as He is in the light, we have fellowship with one another, and the blood of Jesus Christ His Son cleanses us from all sin. … If we confess our sins, He is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.

BrotherJJ · May 1, 2021

No NT believer today is, or ever was, under Mosaic law.

Source Amplified Bible BibleGateway.com: A searchable online Bible in over 150 versions and 50 languages.

Galatians 4:
21 Tell me, you who are bent on being under the Law, do you not listen to [what] the Law [really says]?

22 For it is written that Abraham had two sons, one by the slave woman [Hagar] and one by the free woman [Sarah].

23 But the child of the slave woman was born according to the flesh and had an ordinary birth, while the son of the free woman was born in fulfillment of the promise.
(MY NOTE: Hagar's son, Ishmael, born via physical worldly desire. Sarah's son Issac born from above via God's promise)

24 Now these facts are about to be used [by me] as an allegory [that is, I will illustrate by using them]: for these women can represent two covenants: one [covenant originated] from Mount Sinai [where the Law was given] that bears children [destined] for slavery; she is Hagar.
(MY NOTE: 2 different covenants. Hagar represents the Old Mosaic covenant & a circumcision made/cut with human hands)

25 Now Hagar is (represents) Mount Sinai in Arabia and she corresponds to the present Jerusalem, for she is in slavery with her children.
(MY NOTE: The apostle compares the Sinai covenant: With SLAVERY)

26 But the Jerusalem above [that is, the way of faith, represented by Sarah] is free; she is our mother.
(MY NOTE: Sarah represents the New from above/spiritual Covenant. Spiritually written on the heart & mind (Heb 10:16) made without human hands (Col 2:11 & Rom 2:29, Deut 30:6)

27 For it is written [in the Scriptures], “Rejoice, o barren woman who has not given birth;
Break forth into a [joyful] shout, you who are not in labor; For the desolate woman has many more children Than she who has a husband.”

28 And we, [believing] brothers and sisters, like Isaac, are children [not merely of physical descent, like Ishmael, but are children born] of promise [born miraculously].

29 But as at that time the child [of ordinary birth] born according to the flesh persecuted the son who was born according to [the promise and working of] the Spirit, so it is now also.

30 But what does the Scripture say? “Cast out the bondwoman [Hagar] and her son [Ishmael], For never shall the son of the bondwoman be heir and share the inheritance with the son of the free woman.”
(MY NOTE: Those that cling to the OLD Mosaic covenant, CAN NEVER partake in the NEW eternal Christ mediated covenant.)

31 So then, believers, we [who are born again—reborn from above—spiritually transformed, renewed, and set apart for His purpose] are not children of a slave woman [the natural], but of the free woman [the supernatural].
(MY NOTE: NT believers are BORN/spiritually from God above & have NO PART with the slave woman's carnal/physical/temporal covenant cut at Sinai!)

POINT TWO:

Find 7 direct C&P Bible versions below that translators use the word OBSOLETE to describe the old Mosaic covenant
You can find more here: BibleGateway.com: A searchable online Bible in over 150 versions and 50 languages.

Amplified Bible:
Heb 8:13 When God speaks of “A new covenant,” He makes the first one obsolete. And whatever is becoming obsolete (out of use, annulled) and growing old is ready to disappear.
(my note: THE OLD MOSAIC COVENANT OBSOLETE/ANNULLED!)

New American Standard Bible:
Heb 8:13 When He said, “A new covenant,” He has made the first obsolete. But whatever is becoming obsolete and growing old is [m]about to disappear.
(my note: THE OLD MOSAIC COVENANT OBSOLETE!)

New International Version:
Heb 8:13 By calling this covenant “new,” he has made the first one obsolete; and what is obsolete and outdated will soon disappear.
(my note: THE OLD MOSAIC COVENANT OBSOLETE!)

Revised Geneva Translation:
Heb 8:13 In saying, “a New Testament”, He has rendered the first obsolete. Now that which has aged and grown old is ready to vanish.
(my note: THE OLD MOSAIC COVENANT OBSOLETE!)

Young's Literal Translation:
Heb 8:13 in the saying `new,' He hath made the first old, and what doth become obsolete and is old [is] nigh disappearing.
(my note: THE OLD MOSAIC COVENANT OBSOLETE!)

1599 Geneva Bible:
Heb 8:13 In that he saith a new Testament, he hath abrogated the old: now that which is disannulled and waxed old, is ready to vanish away.
(my note: THE OLD MOSAIC COVENANT ABROGATED & ANNULLED!)

Mounce Reverse Interlinear New Testament:
Bible Gateway passage: Hebrews 8 - Mounce Reverse Interlinear New Testament
(my note: THE OLD MOSAIC COVENANT OBSOLETE!)

BrotherJJ · May 1, 2021

To anyone reading this thread that's interested.

Mark 10:17-20 Context is always key:

Jesus (still alive) is a Jew, under Mosaic law, speaking to a Jew under Mosaic law.

Jesus came to fulfill the law:
Matthew 5:17 Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil.
(NOTE: Jesus sin atoning death & resurrection FULFILLED heavens law requirement for sin. Anyone claiming the law is still in effect. Is claiming Messiah failed at his mission)

John 1:17 For the law was given by Moses, but grace and truth came by Jesus Christ.

1 Jn 3:4 Sin is a transgression of the Law:
Ok, we've all have broken God's law. No one can say he is not a sinner until some means is provided (not to take away the law) but to remove the sin, which is the transgression of the law.

Faith placed in Jesus sin payment & resurrection takes away/removes ALL our sin. Once our sins have been removed, there is no transgression of the law.

Jesus sin atoning payment, found in Christ's death (sins required wage PAID), burial (proof Jesus died) & resurrection (Fathers receipt, sins payment received & accepted).

We seize/access Christ's sin atoning redemptive payment via FAITH (Rom 5:1-2, 10:9-10, Eph 1:13,. 2:8) placed in the faithful, obedient work & resurrection of Jesus the Christ!

Christ is the LORD our righteousness (Jer 23:6 & 33:16). His righteousness is imputed/transferred (Rom 4:3-8) onto us & our sins are imputed/transferred onto Christ.

While the Temple was operating the High Priest had authority to impute/transfer sin (Lev 16:21). Christ our Great High Priest (Heb 4:14) has the power to not only impute our sin onto Himself. Our High Priest can also impute His righteousness onto Himself. See Lev 4 & Rom 4 for additional imputation context.

corinth77777 · May 1, 2021

From post 195
"To anyone reading this thread that's interested.

Mark 10:17-20 Context is always key:

Jesus (still alive) is a Jew, under Mosaic law, speaking to a Jew under Mosaic law."

But What does scripture say:
The law and the prophets were until John: since that time the kingdom of God is preached, and every man presseth into it.
Luke 16:16

corinth77777 · May 1, 2021

BrotherJJ said:
To anyone reading this thread that's interested.

Mark 10:17-20 Context is always key:

Jesus (still alive) is a Jew, under Mosaic law, speaking to a Jew under Mosaic law.

Jesus came to fulfill the law:
Matthew 5:17 Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil.
(NOTE: Jesus sin atoning death & resurrection FULFILLED heavens law requirement for sin. Anyone claiming the law is still in effect. Is claiming Messiah failed at his mission)

John 1:17 For the law was given by Moses, but grace and truth came by Jesus Christ.

1 Jn 3:4 Sin is a transgression of the Law:
Ok, we've all have broken God's law. No one can say he is not a sinner until some means is provided (not to take away the law) but to remove the sin, which is the transgression of the law.

Faith placed in Jesus sin payment & resurrection takes away/removes ALL our sin. Once our sins have been removed, there is no transgression of the law.

Jesus sin atoning payment, found in Christ's death (sins required wage PAID), burial (proof Jesus died) & resurrection (Fathers receipt, sins payment received & accepted).

We seize/access Christ's sin atoning redemptive payment via FAITH (Rom 5:1-2, 10:9-10, Eph 1:13,. 2:8) placed in the faithful, obedient work & resurrection of Jesus the Christ!

Christ is the LORD our righteousness (Jer 23:6 & 33:16). His righteousness is imputed/transferred (Rom 4:3-8) onto us & our sins are imputed/transferred onto Christ.

While the Temple was operating the High Priest had authority to impute/transfer sin (Lev 16:21). Christ our Great High Priest (Heb 4:14) has the power to not only impute our sin onto Himself. Our High Priest can also impute His righteousness onto Himself. See Lev 4 & Rom 4 for additional imputation context.

"Jesus came to fulfill the law:
Matthew 5:17 Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil.
(NOTE: Jesus sin atoning death & resurrection FULFILLED heavens law requirement for sin. Anyone claiming the law is still in effect. Is claiming Messiah failed at his mission)"

But what else does scripture say;
Why did he do it? Romans 8

thus condemned sin in the flesh, 4so that the righteous standard of the law might be fulfilled in us, who do not walk according to the flesh but according to the Spirit.

corinth77777 · May 1, 2021

As said before the Law is no longer the source of rightness, but it is forever the course.
Hebrews 5:9

In this way, God qualified him as a perfect High Priest, and he became the source of eternal salvation for all those who obey him.

Act 2:28

You have revealed the paths of life to me; You will fill me with gladness in Your presence."

Notes: define path

2a) a course of conduct

BrotherJJ · May 2, 2021

No gentiles has ever been under Mosaic law. Neither has any NT believer ever been under the Covenant made at Sinai.

Ex 11:7 But against any of the children of Israel shall not a dog move his tongue, against man or beast: that ye may know how that "the LORD doth put a difference between the Nations and Israel".
(NOTE: The LORD put a difference between all (69) other Nations & Israel/His chosen people) BTW: The same LORD later refers to the gentile/Canaanite woman as a dog. Gentiles were viewed as unclean dogs, bastards, outside of covenant seals)

Ex 19:
3 God, spoke to Moses saying, Thus shalt thou "say to the house of Jacob" "and tell the children of Israel";
(NOTE: God tells Moses, say to: the house of Jacob/children of Israel! Gentiles had/have NO PART in this law covenant)

7 And Moses came and called for the elders of the people, and laid before their faces all these words which the Lord commanded him.
(MY NOTE: Law of Moses was given to: The house of Jacob/children of Israel (reread vs 3)

8 And all the people answered together, and said, All that the Lord hath spoken we will do. And Moses returned the words of the people unto the Lord.
(MY NOTE: When Moses gives the law to: the house of Jacob/children of Israel: They ALL AGREED, to the words the Lord had spoken)

Eph 2:11 Wherefore remember, that ye being in time past Gentiles in the flesh, who are called Uncircumcision by that which is called the Circumcision in the flesh made by hands;
(MY NOTE: Circumcision: A blood covenant made with hands & required under Mosaic law)

Eph 2:12 That at that time ye were without Christ, being aliens from the commonwealth of Israel, and strangers from the covenants of promise, having no hope, and without God in the world:
(MY NOTE: Gentiles referred to as the Uncircumcision (vs 11) were without God, having no covenant promises & a hopeless future)

13 But now in Christ Jesus ye who sometimes were far off are made nigh by the blood of Christ.
(MY NOTE: But, NOW! = Post death & resurrection/new Melchizedek priesthood covenant. Believing gentiles are no longer bastards outside of covenant seals)

Rom 2:14 For when the Gentiles, which have not the law, do by nature the things contained in the law, these, having not the law, are a law unto themselves
(MY PARSING NOTE: Gentiles were never under/had not the Mosaic law)

Council at Jerusalem
Acts 15:
1 And certain men which came down from Judaea taught the brethren, and said, Except ye be circumcised after the manner of Moses, ye cannot be saved.
(MY NOTE: Jews try to place gentiles under Mosaic law)

5 But there rose up certain of the sect of the Pharisees which believed, saying, That it was needful to circumcise them, and to command them to keep the law of Moses.
(NOTE: These Christ rejecting Pharisees claimed gentile believers needed to be circumcised & commanded to keep the law of Moses).

6 And the apostles and elders came together for to consider of this matter.

7 And when there had been much disputing, Peter rose up, and said unto them, Men and brethren, ye know how that a good while ago God made choice among us, that the Gentiles by my mouth should hear the word of the gospel, and believe.
(NOTE: Peter revisits his trip to Cornelius house (Acts 10). And how by word of mouth gentiles believed on Christ's sin payment & resurrection. Were gentiles received Christ's eternal salvation sealing baptism with His indwelling Holy Spirit)

8 And God, which knoweth the hearts, bare them witness, giving them the Holy Ghost, even as he did unto us;
(NOTE: These gentiles heard about Christ's sin payment & resurrection. They believed: NO repentance, water baptism, circumcision, they brought no sin sacrifice to the Temple, No Mosaic law keeping etc. Thru faith in Christ's sin payment & resurrection & faith alone. Christ eternally sealed them with His indwelling Holy Spirit)

9 And put no difference between us and them, purifying their hearts by faith.
(NOTE: Gentiles hearts were Purified by water? NO! Purified by the Holy Spirit via Faith)

10 Now therefore why tempt ye God, to put a yoke upon the neck of the disciples, which neither our fathers nor we were able to bear?
(NOTE: Peter say's neither our forefathers, nor us, could bear the yoke, of keeping the law of Moses with fidelity)

11 But we believe that through the grace of the Lord Jesus Christ we shall be saved, even as they.
(NOTE: Peter proclaims God has showed us that, ALL, are saved by grace thru faith, us/Jews & gentiles as well)

23 And they wrote letters by them after this manner; The apostles and elders and brethren send greeting unto the brethren which are of the Gentiles in Antioch and Syria and Cilicia.
(NOTE: The apostles send letters to all the gentile believing churches in Antioch, Syria & Cilicia.)

24 Forasmuch as we have heard, that certain which went out from us have troubled you with words, subverting your souls, saying, Ye must be circumcised, and keep the law: to whom we gave no such commandment:
(NOTE: The letters written & sent by Christ chosen apostles. Proclaim that gentiles, are not, nor were they ever, required to be circumcised or keep Mosaic law. Quoting: WE gave NO such commandment! )

In short:
Exodus 19, only Israelis agree & enter into the Mosaic law covenant cut at Mt Sinai.

(2) Posted Eph, Rom & Acts scripture also state no gentile has ever been under the Mosaic law covenant.

corinth77777 · May 2, 2021

BrotherJJ said:
No gentiles has ever been under Mosaic law. Neither has any NT believer ever been under the Covenant made at Sinai.

Ex 11:7 But against any of the children of Israel shall not a dog move his tongue, against man or beast: that ye may know how that "the LORD doth put a difference between the Nations and Israel".
(NOTE: The LORD put a difference between all (69) other Nations & Israel/His chosen people) BTW: The same LORD later refers to the gentile/Canaanite woman as a dog. Gentiles were viewed as unclean dogs, bastards, outside of covenant

1Therefore you are inexcusable, O man, whoever you are who judge, for in whatever you judge another you condemn yourself; for you who judge practice the same things. 2But we know that the judgment of God is according to truth against those who practice such things. 3And do you think this, O man, you who judge those practicing such things, and doing the same, that you will escape the judgment of God? 4Or do you despise the riches of His goodness, forbearance, and longsuffering, not knowing that the goodness of God leads you to repentance? 5But in accordance with your hardness and your impenitent heart you are treasuring up for yourself wrath in the day of wrath and revelation of the righteous judgment of God, 6who “will render to each one according to his deeds”: 7eternal life to those who by patient continuance in doing good seek for glory, honor, and immortality; 8but to those who are self-seeking and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness—indignation and wrath, 9tribulation and anguish, on every soul of man who does evil, of the Jew first and also of the Greek; 10but glory, honor, and peace to everyone who works what is good, to the Jew first and also to the Greek. 11For there is no partiality with God.
12For as many as have sinned without law will also perish without law, and as many as have sinned in the law will be judged by the law 13(for not the hearers of the law are just in the sight of God, but the doers of the law will be justified; 14for when Gentiles, who do not have the law, by nature do the things in the law, these, although not having the law, are a law to themselves, 15who show the work of the law written in their hearts, their conscience also bearing witness, and between themselves their thoughts accusing or else excusing them) 16in the day when God will judge the secrets of men by Jesus Christ, according to my gospel.

Old Mosaic Law Covenant Obsolete!

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