Eternal Salvation Demands Obedience

Mr. M · May 1, 2021

Hebrews 5:8, 9 Though he were a Son, yet He learned obedience by the things
which He suffered; and being made perfect, He became the author of eternal
salvation unto all them that obey Him.

Acts 5:
29 But Peter and the other apostles answered and said: We ought to
obey God rather than men.
30 The God of our fathers raised up Jesus whom you murdered by
hanging on a tree.
31 Him God has exalted to His right hand to be Prince and Savior, to give
repentance to Israel and forgiveness of sins.
32 And we are His witnesses to these things, and also the Holy Spirit
whom God has given to those who obey Him.

honey badger · May 2, 2021

Minister Monardo said:
Hebrews 5:8, 9 Though he were a Son, yet He learned obedience by the things
which He suffered; and being made perfect, He became the author of eternal
salvation unto all them that obey Him.

Acts 5:
29 But Peter and the other apostles answered and said: We ought to
obey God rather than men.
30 The God of our fathers raised up Jesus whom you murdered by
hanging on a tree.
31 Him God has exalted to His right hand to be Prince and Savior, to give
repentance to Israel and forgiveness of sins.
32 And we are His witnesses to these things, and also the Holy Spirit
whom God has given to those who obey Him.

learning obedience and having His law written in you are not separate things and one and the same as entering into our inheritance .... its a process of soul ...

thecolorsblend · May 2, 2021

Minister Monardo said:
Hebrews 5:8, 9 Though he were a Son, yet He learned obedience by the things
which He suffered; and being made perfect, He became the author of eternal
salvation unto all them that obey Him.

Acts 5:
29 But Peter and the other apostles answered and said: We ought to
obey God rather than men.
30 The God of our fathers raised up Jesus whom you murdered by
hanging on a tree.
31 Him God has exalted to His right hand to be Prince and Savior, to give
repentance to Israel and forgiveness of sins.
32 And we are His witnesses to these things, and also the Holy Spirit
whom God has given to those who obey Him.

Ok? Yes? Do you have a point you would like to make?

(No, those scriptures do not speak for themselves)

fhansen · May 2, 2021

Minister Monardo said:
Hebrews 5:8, 9 Though he were a Son, yet He learned obedience by the things
which He suffered; and being made perfect, He became the author of eternal
salvation unto all them that obey Him.

Acts 5:
29 But Peter and the other apostles answered and said: We ought to
obey God rather than men.
30 The God of our fathers raised up Jesus whom you murdered by
hanging on a tree.
31 Him God has exalted to His right hand to be Prince and Savior, to give
repentance to Israel and forgiveness of sins.
32 And we are His witnesses to these things, and also the Holy Spirit
whom God has given to those who obey Him.

Yes, the obligation to be obedient, including being righteous, does not go away with the New Covenant.

Brightfame52 · May 3, 2021

Minister Monardo said:
Hebrews 5:8, 9 Though he were a Son, yet He learned obedience by the things
which He suffered; and being made perfect, He became the author of eternal
salvation unto all them that obey Him.

Acts 5:
29 But Peter and the other apostles answered and said: We ought to
obey God rather than men.
30 The God of our fathers raised up Jesus whom you murdered by
hanging on a tree.
31 Him God has exalted to His right hand to be Prince and Savior, to give
repentance to Israel and forgiveness of sins.
32 And we are His witnesses to these things, and also the Holy Spirit
whom God has given to those who obey Him.

Salvation demanded Christs obedience, and by His One obedience many shall be saved/made righteous Rom 5:19

19 For as by one man's disobedience many were made sinners, so by the obedience of one shall many be made righteous.

Danthemailman · May 3, 2021

So how much obedience does it take? Where do you draw the line in the sand and say that you were obedient "enough" so now the Lord will be able to save you? That is salvation by works.

So in Hebrews 5:9, who obeys Him? The saved or the lost? I've heard numerous works-salvationists use this verse to try and support salvation by works. Only believers have obeyed Him by choosing to believe the gospel (Romans 1:16) in order to become saved and only believers obey Him after they have been saved through faith by practicing righteousness and not sin. (1 John 3:9,10). In either sense, only believers obey Him.

Unbelievers have not obeyed Him by refusing to believe the gospel (Romans 10:16; 2 Corinthians 4:3,4) and without faith its impossible to please God (Hebrews 11:6), so unbelievers do not obey Him no matter how much "so called" obedience that they attempt to conjure up through the flesh in a vain effort to obtain salvation by works. (Matthew 7:22-23) So in either sense, unbelievers do not obey Him.

What act of obedience causes us to receive the Holy Spirit? The obedient act of choosing to believe the gospel. Romans 10:16 - But they have not all obeyed the gospel. For Isaiah says, “Lord, who has believed our report?”

Ephesians 1:13 - In Him you also trusted, after you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation; in whom also, having believed, you were sealed with the Holy Spirit of promise.

Brightfame52 · May 3, 2021

Danthemailman said:
So how much obedience does it take? Where do you draw the line in the sand and say that you were obedient "enough" so now the Lord will be able to save you? That is salvation by works.

So in Hebrews 5:9, who obeys Him? The saved or the lost? I've heard numerous works-salvationists use this verse to try and support salvation by works. Only believers have obeyed Him by choosing to believe the gospel (Romans 1:16) in order to become saved and only believers obey Him after they have been saved through faith by practicing righteousness and not sin. (1 John 3:9,10). In either sense, only believers obey Him.

Unbelievers have not obeyed Him by refusing to believe the gospel (Romans 10:16; 2 Corinthians 4:3,4) and without faith its impossible to please God (Hebrews 11:6), so unbelievers do not obey Him no matter how much "so called" obedience that they attempt to conjure up through the flesh in a vain effort to obtain salvation by works. (Matthew 7:22-23) So in either sense, unbelievers do not obey Him.

What act of obedience causes us to receive the Holy Spirit? The obedient act of choosing to believe the gospel. Romans 10:16 - But they have not all obeyed the gospel. For Isaiah says, “Lord, who has believed our report?”

Ephesians 1:13 - In Him you also trusted, after you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation; in whom also, having believed, you were sealed with the Holy Spirit of promise.

Heb 5:9 is actually giving Christ credit for the obedience of the one obeying, in other words, if one is obeying, its because Christ is the author of their obedience by giving them the Spirit. Like what Peter says in 1 Pet 1:2

2 Elect according to the foreknowledge of God the Father, through sanctification of the Spirit, unto obedience and sprinkling of the blood of Jesus Christ: Grace unto you, and peace, be multiplied.

Evangelical/ Gospel obedience is the result of the Sanctifying work of the Spirit, which Spirit is from Christ, Hes the Author of it.

Mr. M · May 3, 2021

Danthemailman said:
So how much obedience does it take? Where do you draw the line in the sand and say that you were obedient "enough" so now the Lord will be able to save you? That is salvation by works.

John 14:15 If you love Me, keep My commandments.
I don't draw any lines. I will not be the one to judge. Where did Christ draw the line?
He drew a clear one at forgiveness.
Matthew 6:
14 For if you forgive men their trespasses, your heavenly Father will also forgive you.
15 But if you do not forgive men their trespasses, neither will your Father forgive your trespasses.

This is not about earning salvation, or losing salvation. It is about being a "good and faithful servant".
Anyone who objects to the notion of serving Christ in obedience as trying to "earn salvation" is simply
encouraging others toward being a "wicked and lazy servant". If you know what Christ endured in obedience so that we could be forgiven, then "here am I, send me", becomes a part of your vocabulary.

Luke 17:10 So likewise you, when you have done all those things which you are commanded,
say, ‘We are unprofitable servants. We have done what was our duty to do.’

The Lord won't honor you for doing your job, but He is well pleased when you do so with
His Spirit. The Covenant of Eternal Salvation written on your heart demands that you do,
and convicts you when you do not. This is the overcoming Life.
I love you Dan man. I posted those scriptures in the OP #1 to encourage others to be faithful.
1 Corinthians 4:2 Moreover it is required in stewards that one be found faithful.

Mr. M · May 3, 2021

Brightfame52 said:
Evangelical/ Gospel obedience is the result of the Sanctifying work of the Spirit, which Spirit is from Christ, Hes the Author of it.

Not Salvation by works, but the works of salvation!
Revelation 2:19 I know your works: love, service, faith, and your patience; and
as for your works, the last are more than the first.

1 Thessalonians 1:
2 We give thanks to God always for you all, making mention of you in our prayers,
3 remembering without ceasing your work of faith, labor of love, and patience of hope
in our Lord Jesus Christ in the sight of our God and Father,
4 knowing, beloved brethren, your election by God.

fhansen · May 3, 2021

Brightfame52 said:
Salvation demanded Christs obedience, and by His One obedience many shall be saved/made righteous Rom 5:19

19 For as by one man's disobedience many were made sinners, so by the obedience of one shall many be made righteous.

Yes, because of His obedience we may now have obedience/righteousness too.

FreeGrace2 · May 3, 2021

Minister Monardo said:
Hebrews 5:8, 9 Though he were a Son, yet He learned obedience by the things
which He suffered; and being made perfect, He became the author of eternal
salvation unto all them that obey Him.

Acts 5:
29 But Peter and the other apostles answered and said: We ought to
obey God rather than men.
30 The God of our fathers raised up Jesus whom you murdered by
hanging on a tree.
31 Him God has exalted to His right hand to be Prince and Savior, to give
repentance to Israel and forgiveness of sins.
32 And we are His witnesses to these things, and also the Holy Spirit
whom God has given to those who obey Him.

All you are doing is promoting a works based salvation. So I recommend that you take a pair of scissors and snip out of your Bible EVERY mention of "grace".

Brightfame52 · May 3, 2021

Minister Monardo said:
Not Salvation by works, but the works of salvation!
Revelation 2:19 I know your works: love, service, faith, and your patience; and
as for your works, the last are more than the first.

1 Thessalonians 1:
2 We give thanks to God always for you all, making mention of you in our prayers,
3 remembering without ceasing your work of faith, labor of love, and patience of hope
in our Lord Jesus Christ in the sight of our God and Father,
4 knowing, beloved brethren, your election by God.

You lost me friend, did you understand my post you quoted ? Apparently you didnt.

Brightfame52 · May 3, 2021

fhansen said:
Yes, because of His obedience we may now have obedience/righteousness too.

May now have ? Could you please explain why you used those words ?

Mr. M · May 3, 2021

Brightfame52 said:
You lost me friend, did you understand my post you quoted ? Apparently you didnt.

Maybe you could elaborate on what you mean by "Gospel obedience", if it is not being
described in the verses quoted.

Minister Monardo said:
Revelation 2:19 I know your works: love, service, faith, and your patience; and
as for your works, the last are more than the first.

Mr. M · May 3, 2021

FreeGrace2 said:
All you are doing is promoting a works based salvation. So I recommend that you take a pair of scissors and snip out of your Bible EVERY mention of "grace".

A highly inappropriate comment and recommendation. You think you know what grace is?
Try this one and learn.
Titus 2:
11 For the grace of God that brings salvation has appeared to all men,
12 teaching us that, denying ungodliness and worldly lusts, we should live soberly,
righteously, and godly in the present age,
13 looking for the blessed hope and glorious appearing of our great God and Savior Jesus Christ,
14 who gave Himself for us, that He might redeem us from every lawless deed and
purify for Himself His own special people, zealous for good works.

Grace without His Purpose in vain.
2 Timothy 1:9 who has saved us and called us with a holy calling, not according to our works, but according to His own purpose and grace which was given to us in Christ Jesus before time began.

We can only accomplish His Work by His Grace.
2 Corinthians 9:8 And God is able to make all grace abound toward you, that you, always
having all sufficiency in all things, may have an abundance for every good work.

Maybe you would like to explain how I was "promoting" anything by simply posting
scriptures that speak of eternal salvation and obedience to the Son.
BTW, I already responded in post #8 to the suggestion of "works based salvation".
I don't know what your understanding of the Gospel requires of you, but mine
calls all believers to be faithful servants. Not the what of salvation, but the why. His Purpose.

TedT · May 3, 2021

Minister Monardo said:
32 And we are His witnesses to these things, and also the Holy Spirit
whom God has given to those who obey Him.

ImCo:
We 'obey' because we are in complete agreement with HIM, HIS values and HIS way... We also obey because we will be in love with HIM totally. Holiness, being in accord with hIM and love come first and lend themselves to a natura, not forced, obedience.

Mr. M · May 3, 2021

TedT said:
ImCo:
We 'obey' because we are in complete agreement with HIM, HIS values and HIS way... We also obey because we will be in love with HIM totally. Holiness, being in accord with hIM and love come first and lend themselves to a natura, not forced, obedience.

Yes, to love Him is to obey Him. Loving others requires abiding in His Holy Spirit.
That is supernatural Love! To forgive others as we have been forgiven is obedience
that transforms us into His image.
John 13:
34 A new commandment I give to you, that you love one another; as I have loved you,
that you also love one another.
35 By this all will know that you are My disciples, if you have love for one another.

fhansen · May 3, 2021

Brightfame52 said:
May now have ? Could you please explain why you used those words ?

we must accept the offer to enter Union with him by faith and then remain in him.

Mr. M · May 3, 2021

fhansen said:
we must accept the offer to enter Union with him by faith and then remain in him.

Paul called this "obedience to the Faith".
Romans 1:5 Through Him we have received Grace and apostleship for obedience to the faith
among all nations for His name.
All may not have been called apostles, but all may receive Grace by Faith.

FreeGrace2 · May 3, 2021

FreeGrace2 said: ↑
All you are doing is promoting a works based salvation. So I recommend that you take a pair of scissors and snip out of your Bible EVERY mention of "grace".

Minister Monardo said:
A highly inappropriate comment and recommendation. You think you know what grace is?
Try this one and learn.

Grace is simply unmerited favor. Your theory adds human works to salvation, so you don't need the concept of grace in it.

Titus 2:
11 For the grace of God that brings salvation has appeared to all men,
12 teaching us that, denying ungodliness and worldly lusts, we should live soberly,
righteously, and godly in the present age,
13 looking for the blessed hope and glorious appearing of our great God and Savior Jesus Christ,
14 who gave Himself for us, that He might redeem us from every lawless deed and
purify for Himself His own special people, zealous for good works.

None of this is about how to have salvation. The "us" in v.12 refers to believers, naturally. They are, naturally, already saved.

It is the saved peope who are commanded to be holy and blameless.

Grace without His Purpose in vain.
2 Timothy 1:9 who has saved us and called us with a holy calling, not according to our works, but according to His own purpose and grace which was given to us in Christ Jesus before time began.

We can only accomplish His Work by His Grace.
2 Corinthians 9:8 And God is able to make all grace abound toward you, that you, always
having all sufficiency in all things, may have an abundance for every good work.

Click to expand...

Neither of these verses are about how to be saved.

Maybe you would like to explain how I was "promoting" anything by simply posting
scriptures that speak of eternal salvation and obedience to the Son.
BTW, I already responded in post #8 to the suggestion of "works based salvation".
I don't know what your understanding of the Gospel requires of you, but mine
calls all believers to be faithful servants. Not the what of salvation, but the why. His Purpose.

Click to expand...

I did, and I'll do it again.

Salvation is by grace through faith. Period. Acts 2:8-9.

What YOU don't understand is that obedience, when used in reference to salvation, means to believe the gospel message.

It's not about following a certain lifestyle or behavior It's about trusting in who Jesus Christ is, the Son of God, and what He did for you personally on the cross when He was dying for sins, and what He promises those who believe in Him, which is eternal life.

The whole idea of obedience FOLLOWS salvation.

Eternal Salvation Demands Obedience

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