Is it "controversial" for pastors to disagree with COVID-19 church closures?

Sketcher

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  1. A deadly virus is everyone's problem.
  2. Since many church congregations skew older, and therefore will have a higher percentage of people vulnerable to the virus within them, it's most pastors' problem.
  3. That said, it makes perfect sense why pastors should disagree with certain church closures, what is happening in Canada is crazy right now.
 
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Rene Loup

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Plagues and pestilences are a Biblical and scientific realities.[1][2][3]

In the Book of Exodus, the Twelve Plagues of Egypt included boils and diseased livestock. The Apostle Luke was even a physician (Colossians 4:14).[4][5] Hippocrates is history's first known physician to discover natural elements influencing disease, or at least number of different authors contributing to medicine in Classical Greece.[6][7]

12 Then the Lord appeared to Solomon at night. The Lord said, “Solomon, I have heard your prayer. And I have chosen this place for myself to be a Temple for sacrifices.

13 “I may stop the sky from sending rain. I may command the locusts to destroy the land. I may send sicknesses to my people. 14 Then my people, who are called by my name, will be sorry for what they have done. They will pray and obey me and stop their evil ways. If they do, I will hear them from heaven. I will forgive their sin, and I will heal their land.
~2 Chronicles 7:12-14 (ICB)

Bible Gateway passage: 2 Chronicles 7 - King James Version
Bible Gateway passage: 2 Chronicles 7 - New King James Version
Bible Gateway passage: 2 Chronicles 7 - New International Version
Bible Gateway passage: 2 Chronicles 7 - International Children’s Bible

...And there are false teachers promoting lies promising "freedom:"

17 Those false teachers are like rivers that have no water. They are like clouds blown by a storm. A place in the blackest darkness has been kept for them. 18 They brag with words that mean nothing. By their evil desires they lead people into the trap of sin. They lead away people who are just beginning to escape from other people who live in error. 19 They promise them freedom, but they themselves are not free. They are slaves of things that will be destroyed. For a person is a slave of anything that controls him. 20 They were made free from the evil in the world by knowing our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ. But if they return to evil things and those things control them, then it is worse for them than it was before. 21 Yes, it would be better for them to have never known the right way. That would be better than to know the right way and then to turn away from the holy teaching that was given to them. 22 What they did is like this true saying: “A dog eats what it throws up.” And, “After a pig is washed, it goes back and rolls in the mud.”
~2 Peter 2:17-22 (ICB)

Bible Gateway passage: 2 Peter 2 - King James Version
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Bible Gateway passage: 2 Peter 2 - International Children’s Bible

Honestly, after this whole pandemic is over, I am legit expecting an international crackdown, both online and in real life, because of these people. We are experiencing the greatest crisis of our generation. Yet, people are pouring gasoline on the fire, because they do not like being told what to do by their leaders (1 Corinthians 13:1-13, Exodus 20:1-17, Galatians 5:22-26, Hebrews 13:7-17, Romans 13:1-10, 1 Peter 2:11-25 VS. Galatians 5:19-21, Matthew 24:12-26, 2 Timothy 3:1-17).

THIS IS NOT GOING TO SIT WELL WITH WORLD GOVERNMENTS NOR WITH GOD!!!



Read, study, and KNOW Scripture!



NEVER
have an overreliance on others to do so for you! Such laziness, apathy, and lack of love for God carries an extremely high level of risk of being led astray by wolves in sheep's clothing!
(Matthew 7:13-29, 2 Peter 2:1-22, 1 Timothy 6:1-10, 2 Timothy 3:1-17, 4:1-8, and more)

2 Timothy 3 is one of my favourite Bible passages, and has been for years. I highly recommend giving it a read, because COVID-19 has certainly brought out the worst in many of us. Moderators, I deeply apologize if this post breaks any CF and Biblical rules, but our collective response to this entire pandemic has left a taste worse than Buckley's cough syrup in my mouth.

Finally, I encourage everyone reading this to recite Psalm 41. I see it as a prayer for events like COVID-19, and all the drama that comes with it. During this pandemic, this Psalm now makes total sense to me.

A Prayer in Time of Sickness
For the director of music. A song of David.
41 Happy is the person who thinks about the poor.
When trouble comes, the Lord will save him.
2 The Lord will protect him and spare his life.
The Lord will bless him in the land.
The Lord will not let his enemies take him.
3 The Lord will give him strength when he is sick.
The Lord will make him well again.

4 I said, “Lord, be kind to me.
Heal me because I have sinned against you.”
5 My enemies are saying bad things about me.
They say, “When will he die and be forgotten?”
6 Some people come to see me.
But they lie.
They just come to get bad news.
Then they go and gossip.
7 All my enemies whisper about me.
They think the worst about me.
8 They say, “He has a terrible disease.
He will never get out of bed again.”
9 My best and truest friend ate at my table.
Now even he has turned against me.

10 Lord, have mercy on me.
Give me strength so I can pay them back.
11 My enemies do not defeat me.
That’s how I know you are pleased with me.
12 Because I am innocent, you support me.
You will let me be with you forever.

13 Praise the Lord, the God of Israel.
He has always been,
and he will always be.

Amen and amen.
~Psalm 41:1-13 (ICB)

Bible Gateway passage: Psalm 41 - King James Version
Bible Gateway passage: Psalm 41 - New King James Version
Bible Gateway passage: Psalm 41 - New International Version
Bible Gateway passage: Psalm 41 - International Children’s Bible

Take care, stay safe, and God bless!
  1. germ theory | Definition, Development, & Facts
  2. Germ Theory
  3. Germ Theory
  4. Saint Luke | Biography, Feast Day, Patron Saint Of, Facts, & History
  5. St. Luke the Evangelist
  6. Hippocrates | Biography, Works, & Facts
  7. Hippocrates | Internet Encyclopedia of Philosophy
 
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BABerean2

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In the Book of Exodus, the Twelve Plagues of Egypt included boils and diseased livestock.

Why were the Children of Israel not effected by those plagues?

Exo_8:22 And I will sever in that day the land of Goshen, in which my people dwell, that no swarms of flies shall be there; to the end thou mayest know that I am the LORD in the midst of the earth.

Exo_9:26 Only in the land of Goshen, where the children of Israel were, was there no hail.


Was it because they followed the instructions of God, instead of man?

Heb_10:25 Not forsaking the assembling of ourselves together, as the manner of some is; but exhorting one another: and so much the more, as ye see the day approaching.


Read Hebrews chapter 11 if you want to understand the consequences of following God, instead of man.

Heb 11:35 Women received their dead raised to life again. Others were tortured, not accepting deliverance, that they might obtain a better resurrection.
Heb 11:36 Still others had trial of mockings and scourgings, yes, and of chains and imprisonment.
Heb 11:37 They were stoned, they were sawn in two, were tempted, were slain with the sword. They wandered about in sheepskins and goatskins, being destitute, afflicted, tormented—
Heb 11:38 of whom the world was not worthy. They wandered in deserts and mountains, in dens and caves of the earth.
Heb 11:39 And all these, having obtained a good testimony through faith, did not receive the promise,
Heb 11:40 God having provided something better for us, that they should not be made perfect apart from us.


Corrie Ten Boom spent time in a Nazi concentration camp, and her sister died there.
She understands persecution.
In the following video an American woman reads a letter Corrie wrote during the 1970's.


.
 
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Rene Loup

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Why were the Children of Israel not effected by those plagues?

Exo_8:22 And I will sever in that day the land of Goshen, in which my people dwell, that no swarms of flies shall be there; to the end thou mayest know that I am the LORD in the midst of the earth.

Exo_9:26 Only in the land of Goshen, where the children of Israel were, was there no hail.


Was it because they followed the instructions of God, instead of man?

Heb_10:25 Not forsaking the assembling of ourselves together, as the manner of some is; but exhorting one another: and so much the more, as ye see the day approaching.


Read Hebrews chapter 11 if you want to understand the consequences of following God, instead of man.

Heb 11:35 Women received their dead raised to life again. Others were tortured, not accepting deliverance, that they might obtain a better resurrection.
Heb 11:36 Still others had trial of mockings and scourgings, yes, and of chains and imprisonment.
Heb 11:37 They were stoned, they were sawn in two, were tempted, were slain with the sword. They wandered about in sheepskins and goatskins, being destitute, afflicted, tormented—
Heb 11:38 of whom the world was not worthy. They wandered in deserts and mountains, in dens and caves of the earth.
Heb 11:39 And all these, having obtained a good testimony through faith, did not receive the promise,
Heb 11:40 God having provided something better for us, that they should not be made perfect apart from us.


Corrie Ten Boom spent time in a Nazi concentration camp, and her sister died there.
She understands persecution.
In the following video an American woman reads a letter Corrie wrote during the 1970's.


.

Then why are Christians still getting infected, including pastors and ordained ministers?[1][2][3][4][5][6]

If you dismiss these news articles as "Fake News," then what is stopping me from dismissing your sources as being the same?

Even if Christians are not getting infected, because we managed to get God to serve us (and not the other way around), then how is it loving to put non-believers at risk like this?

Where do you draw the line between faith and testing God? Why is that your answer?

Are you aware of James 3:1-18, Luke 18:9-14, Matthew 12:1-14, Proverbs 16:18, Proverbs 16:25, and Proverbs 18:21? If so, please post these Scriptures and tell me what they mean.

Bible Gateway passage: James 3, Luke 18:9-14, Matthew 12:1-14, Proverbs 16:18, Proverbs 16:25, Proverbs 18:21 - King James Version
Bible Gateway passage: James 3, Luke 18:9-14, Matthew 12:1-14, Proverbs 16:18, Proverbs 16:25, Proverbs 18:21 - New King James Version
Bible Gateway passage: James 3, Luke 18:9-14, Matthew 12:1-14, Proverbs 16:18, Proverbs 16:25, Proverbs 18:21 - New International Version
Bible Gateway passage: James 3, Luke 18:9-14, Matthew 12:1-14, Proverbs 16:18, Proverbs 16:25, Proverbs 18:21 - International Children’s Bible

In your own signature:

Picture 3.jpg

Answer these questions if you want to be credible in my eyes. People are watching. Please and thank you.
  1. Pastor dies from coronavirus after laying hands on infected followers, declaring them healed - The Christian Post
  2. A California pastor died of COVID-19 after his megachurch failed to comply with state health restrictions
  3. Rev. Vickey Gibbs, beloved Houston pastor and activist, dies of Covid-19 at 57 - CNN
  4. Pastor Dies from COVID-19 After Blasting Social Distancing Measures
  5. Tennessee pastor dies of COVID-19 complications, one day after wife's passing
  6. 275 Adventists Have Died From COVID-19 in Southern Mexico
On May 1, 2021, at roughly 1:10 PM Eastern Time, I have added Proverbs 16:25 in addition to other Scripture in paragraphs five and six. My apologies, I am still learning because I am a flawed human being who is predisposed towards selfishness (John 13:1-17, Luke 16:1-15, Matthew 7:13-29).

On May 1, 2021, at roughly 11:50 AM Eastern Time, I have added a screenshot of BABerean2's signature. On May 1, 2021, at roughly 12:00 AM Eastern Time, I have added Scripture to these disclaimers, and am planning to continue doing so. My apologies, I am still learning because I am a flawed human being who is predisposed towards selfishness (John 13:1-17, Luke 16:1-15, Matthew 7:13-29).
 
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BABerean2

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Then why are Christians still getting infected, including pastors and ordained ministers?[1][2][3][4][5][6]

If you dismiss these news articles as "Fake News," then what is stopping me from dismissing your sources as being the same?



My wife, and several of the people I go to church with had COVID-19 and all survived it. I had a scratchy throat after my wife tested positive, and suspect I had a very mild case.

Why do Christians get infected with the seasonal Flu every year?

Why are children more likely to die of the Seasonal Flu, as compared to COVID-19?

We now know the survival rate is about 99.8% compared to the numbers we were originally given.

Last year we were told 3-4% of the United States population would be killed.
The 1918 Spanish Flu killed 10% of those infected.

Why are common treatments for COVID-19 being ignored?

If you have a high risk of death due to COVID-19 and want to stay at home, then please do so.
Do not try to control the behavior of those of us who have already survived the disease.
The people I go to church with are very well aware of the risks involved. Because of the Gospel, they are not afraid of death.

.
 
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Rene Loup

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My wife, and several of the people I go to church with had COVID-19 and all survived it. I had a scratchy throat after my wife tested positive, and suspect I had a very mild case.

Why do Christians get infected with the seasonal Flu every year?

Why are children more likely to die of the Seasonal Flu, as compared to COVID-19?

We now know the survival rate is about 99.8% compared to the numbers we were originally given.

Last year we were told 3-4% of the United States population would be killed.
The 1918 Spanish Flu killed 10% of those infected.

Why are common treatments for COVID-19 being ignored?

If you have a high risk of death due to COVID-19 and want to stay at home, then please do so.
Do not try to control the behavior of those of us who have already survived the disease.

.

You are providing anecdotal evidence and statistics without any sources to back them up.

Please answer my questions, or I will have to walk away from this argument.
 
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BABerean2

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You are providing anecdotal evidence and statistics without any sources to back them up.

Please answer my questions, or I will have to walk away from this argument.


Are you afraid of death?

If you are, maybe this song will help you overcome that fear.

Molly Scaggs sings Ain't No Grave...


.
 
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BABerean2

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Is taking reasonable precautions against infections wrong?
In the OT people who had certain conditions were quarantined for a certain period of time to prevent the spread of the conditions.

No. There is nothing wrong with "reasonable" precautions.

When Governor Roy Cooper of North Carolina shut down our state's churches, a Federal judge ruled it was not "reasonable", nor was it legal, based on our State and Federal constitutions.

Now we know locking down the whole country for a virus that has a survival rate of 99.8% can not go on without destroying the nation's economy, and our way of life.

.
 
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A little over a year ago I walked into my little local Anglican church for Sunday service and the pastor announced that we shouldn't now be shaking hands, but instead touching elbows. I haven't been back since. They just welcomed that satanic spirit into the church without so much as a 'by your leave'. They sent me an SMS when allowed to reopen under conditions about 8 months later and I responded that it was sad to see so few churches like John McArthur's in the US. Nothing further.
 
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Strong in Him

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If you have a high risk of death due to COVID-19 and want to stay at home, then please do so.
Do not try to control the behavior of those of us who have already survived the disease.
The people I go to church with are very well aware of the risks involved. Because of the Gospel, they are not afraid of death.

What about the fact that you could have passed the virus onto others, resulting in their hospitalisation or death?
How is this loving as Jesus loved?
 
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Strong in Him

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A little over a year ago I walked into my little local Anglican church for Sunday service and the pastor announced that we shouldn't now be shaking hands, but instead touching elbows. I haven't been back since. They just welcomed that satanic spirit into the church without so much as a 'by your leave'.

Nonsense.
If showing concern for the vulnerable in your community is "showing a Satanic spirit", how does he love as Jesus loved?

Disobeying the rules and ignoring the advice of scientists and medics is not noble, cool or Christian. People blame governments for the way in which they handle the pandemic - but it's the "it won't happen to me/doesn't apply to me" attitude of people that have made this so much worse.
 
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BABerean2

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What about the fact that you could have passed the virus onto others, resulting in their hospitalisation or death?
How is this loving as Jesus loved?

I stayed at home during the time my wife and I had the COVID-19 virus.


.
 
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hedrick

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A little over a year ago I walked into my little local Anglican church for Sunday service and the pastor announced that we shouldn't now be shaking hands, but instead touching elbows. I haven't been back since. They just welcomed that satanic spirit into the church without so much as a 'by your leave'. They sent me an SMS when allowed to reopen under conditions about 8 months later and I responded that it was sad to see so few churches like John McArthur's in the US. Nothing further.
We do that during flu season. I don’t see why it would be Satanic.
 
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Disobeying the rules and ignoring the advice of scientists and medics is not noble, cool or Christian.

If you can find the time to investigate the science, you might find that:
  1. a purified isolated genome of the the sars cov 2 virus has never been extracted from any living organism. The only place it exists is on computers, pieced together using predictive modelling software.
  2. the tiny fragments the PCR tests are finding could just as well be cellular debris. This hypothesis has never been excluded, despite the supposed 390 trillion viruses plus as many virus-like particles that 'science' says normally inhabit the human body. What are the chances? Let's isolate it first, shall we.
  3. as a result, the existence of true positives cannot be verified and the number of false positives and therefore systematic misdiagnosis where patients have nonspecific symptoms or none at all is likely extremely high.
  4. in the worst case, and even accepting the dodgy inflated statistics, it's still in the region of cold and flu, and certainly less harmful than the so-called 'vaccine' (ie the one that even the criminal drug companies admit doesn't prevent infection or transmission).
So my medical advice to you? Trust God not Caesar. He is the Great Physician who gave us science, so do feel free to reason with us, Romans 1 is a good place to start. That's the cool part, it's all about His glory. I commend it to you.
 
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We do that during flu season. I don’t see why it would be Satanic.

It is satanic because it encourages us to see our brothers and sisters as potential carriers and to live in fear and superstition. Next the masks, the distancing, the isolation and self-quarantine, the asymptomatic infections...whose interest does that serve?

Consider the monks who lived on leper colonies. Also consider the 'germ theory' of disease promulgated by Pasteur, who by his own personal notebook has proven himself to be a total fraud, and who reputedly even confessed on his deathbed that 'the germ is nothing, the terrain is everything.'
 
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If you can find the time to investigate the science,

I don't have time to investigate the science, and wouldn't understand it if I did - that's why we have experts.
Anyway it's largely irrelevant - I had my 1st jab weeks ago, have my 2nd one soon and don't intend getting kicked out of shops/not being able to get on a bus because I don't have a mask on.

in the worst case, and even accepting the dodgy inflated statistics, it's still in the region of cold and flu, and certainly less harmful than the so-called 'vaccine'

Try telling all the relatives of those who died - which includes children left without mothers - that it's no worse than flu.
I had no ill effects at all from the vaccine - not even the sore arm that a few of my colleagues had.
I wasn't the only one to be completely unaffected.

on).
So my medical advice to you? Trust God not Caesar. He is the Great Physician who gave us science, so do feel free to reason with us,

I do trust in God, thank you.
He also gave us a mind, common sense and the scientists the ability to discover vaccines and develop them so quickly.
He also told us to pray for our leaders and those who make decisions - something we do regularly.
 
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