LoveGodsWord said:
↑ What you say here and what you have said to me in the past seems confusing. You have agreed with me in the past that Gods’ true Israel in the new covenant are all those who now believe and follow Gods’ Word (e.g.
Romans 9:6-8;
Romans 2:28-29;
Galatians 3:28-29). According to the scriptures in the new covenant Gentile believers are now grafted in *
Romans 11:13-27. There is not one set of laws for gentile believers and another set of laws for Jewish believers as the scriptures teach that all believers are all believers and followers of God’s Word are all one in Christ *
Colossians 3:11;
Romans 10:11-13;
Ephesians 2:11-13.
Your response here...
I already clarified that. Gentiles and Jews are alike in Christ, and are both included in the covenant.
No. It is not already clarified at all. God does not have a different set of laws for New covenant Jews and new covenant Gentile believers as they are all one in Christ according to the scriptures and Gentile believers have been grafted in to God's Israel through faith while unbelieving Jews have been cut out according to the scriptures in Romans 11:14-27, If we are not a part of God's ISRAEL we have no part in Gods' new covenant promise which us to God's ISRAEL not born of the flesh but born of the Spirit through faith.
However, they do in fact have different requirements, as the Acts council made clear.
Act 15:5 But there rose up certain of the sect of the Pharisees which believed, saying, That it was needful to circumcise them, and to command them to keep the law of Moses.
Act 15:6 And the apostles and elders came together for to consider of this matter.
23 They wrote this letter by them: The apostles, the elders, and the brethren, To the brethren who are of the Gentiles in Antioch, Syria, and Cilicia: Greetings. 24 Since we have heard that some who went out from us have troubled you with words, unsettling your souls,saying, "be circumcised and keep the law”—to whom we gave no such commandment
Act 21:24 take these men and purify yourself along with them and pay their expenses, so that they may shave their heads. Thus all will know that there is nothing in what they have been told about you, but that you yourself also live in observance of the law.
Act 21:25 But as for the Gentiles who have believed, we have sent a letter with our judgment that they should abstain from what has been sacrificed to idols, and from blood, and from what has been strangled, and from sexual immorality.”
We have gone over this many times already. The scriptures teach no where in Acts 15 that Gods' 10 commandments are not a requirement for Christian living. The context and subject matter you leave out here is that the question being discussed at Jerusalem is not "are Gods' 10 commandments a requirement for Christian living but, Is circumcision from the law of Moses a requirement for the salvation of new gentile believers? This was the question that Paul and Barnabas went to Jerusalem to consider.
WHAT IS THE QUESTION THAT ACTS 15 IS CONSIDERING?
ACTS 15:1:21
[1], And certain men who came down from Judea taught the brethren, and said, EXCEPT YOU BE CIRCUMCISED AFTER THE MANNER OF MOSES
YOU CANNOT BE SAVED.
NOTE: ACTS 15:1 is the question that needs to be answered and the topic of conversation and CONTEXT of the chapter of ACTS 15. Here we have Jewish believers coming to Paul and Barnabas saying if the new GENTILES believers are not circumcised and made proselytes then they cannot be saved. This is the chapter context and issue of contention.
[2], When therefore Paul and Barnabas had no small dissension and dispute with them, THEY DETERMINED THAT PAUL AND BARNABAS AND CERTAIN OF THEM SHOULD GO UP TO JERUSALEM UNTO THE APOSTLES AND ELDERS
ABOUT THIS QUESTION.
NOTE: ACTS 15:2 Which question? Weather your salvation depends on being CIRCUMCISED.
They then travelled to Jerusalem about this question to determine if new gentile believers needed to be
CIRCUMCISED in order to be saved. Once they got to Jerusalem, the question was then asked and the discussion continued with the Pharasees stating their case first..
[5], But there rose up certain of the sect of the Pharisees who believed, saying, It is needful to circumcise them, and to command them to keep the law of Moses.
NOTE: KEEP in mind here the question was never over if gentile believers should obey God's 10 Commandments but to keep the Shadow laws of Moses, in this case CIRCUMCISION as a means of salvation.
CIRCUMCISION is from the law of MOSES. There is nothing in this chapter that can be shown from the scriptures that it is discussing God’s 10 Commandments written by God on two tables of stone.
[6], And the apostles and elders came together
TO CONSIDER THIS MATTER.
NOTE: Again the topic of discussion and chapter CONTEXT that is being considered is the question stated in ACTS 15:1 which was IS CIRCUMCISION A REQUIREMENT OF SALVATION?
[7], And when there had been much disputing, Peter rose up, and said unto them, Men and brethren, you know how that a good while ago God made choice among us, that the Gentiles by my mouth should hear the word of the gospel, and believe.
[8], And God, who knows the hearts, bore them witness, giving them the Holy Spirit, even as he did unto us;
NOTE: After much discussion between the Apostles, Peter then rose up showing that God gave the gentile believers the Holy Spirit being UNCIRCUMCISED.
[9], And put no difference between us and them, purifying their hearts by faith.
[10], Now therefore why test God, to put a yoke upon the neck of the disciples, which neither our fathers nor we were able to bear
[11], But we believe that through the grace of the Lord Jesus Christ we shall be saved, even as they.
NOTE: They came to the conclusion then that salvation is not by being circumcised but be what circumcision pointed to. A new heart by faith. This is made plain latter in other scripture written by PAUL here...
ROMANS 2 [25] For circumcision verily profits, if you keep the law: but if you are a breaker of the law, your circumcision is made uncircumcision. [26], Therefore if the uncircumcision keeps the righteousness of the law, shall not his uncircumcision be counted for circumcision? [27], And shall not uncircumcision which is by nature, if it fulfills the law, judge you, who by the letter and circumcision do transgress the law? [28], FOR HE IS NOT A JEW, WHO IS ONE; NEITHER IS THAT CIRCUMCISION, WHICH IS OF THE OUTWARD FLESH: [29], BUT HE IS A JEW WHICH IS ONE INWARDLY; AND CIRCUMCISION IS THAT OF THE HEART, IN THE SPIRIT AND NOT IN THE LETTER; WHOSE PRAISE IS NOT OF MEN BUT OF GOD.
If ACTS 15 was talking about the 10 Commandments then Paul's writings in to the CORINTHIAN believers do not make any sense.
1 CORINTHIANS 7 [19] CIRCUMCISION IS NOTHING, AND UNCIRCUMCISION IS NOTHING,
BUT THE KEEPING OF THE COMMANDMENTS OF GOD.
The scripture above is a contradiction of how some interpret the outcome of ACTS 15. You do not believe, that we are now free to break any of God's 10 Commandments now do you?
[12], Then all the multitude kept silence, and listened to Barnabas and Paul declaring what miracles and wonders God had done among the Gentiles by them.
[13], And after they had held their peace, James answered, saying, Men and brethren, hearken unto me:
[14], Simeon has declared how God at the first did visit the Gentiles, to take out of them a people for his name.
[15], And to this agree the words of the prophets; as it is written,
[16], After this I will return, and will build again the tabernacle of David, which is fallen down; and I will build again the ruins thereof, and I will set it up:
[17], That the rest of men might seek after the Lord, and all the Gentiles, upon whom my name is called, says the Lord, who does all these things.
[18], Known unto God are all his works from the beginning of the world.
[19], THEREFORE MY JUDGMENT IS THAT WE TROUBLE NOT THEM WHO FROM THE GENTILES ARE TURNED TO GOD:
[20], BUT WRITE UNTO THEM THAT THEY ABSTAIN FROM THE DEFILEMENT OF IDOLS, FORNICATION AND THINGS STRANGLED AND FROM BLOOD.
NOTE: JAMES conclusion is that new Gentile believers should not be troubled with CIRCUMCISION as a requirement of salvation which was the matter being considered and the question being discussion as shown in *ACTS 15:1-2; ACTS 15:6 but asks them to abstain from idols, fornication and from things strangled and from blood.
[21], FOR MOSES OF OLD TIME HAS IN EVERY CITY THEM THAT PREACH HIM, BEING READ IN THE SYNAGOGUES
EVERY SABBATH.
NOTE: The reason why JAMES sends this letter to the new Gentile believers is that they would continue learning God's WORD
EVERY SABBATH.
……………
CONCLUSION So the conclusion of the matter with CONTEXT added back in is found in v19-20 We are not to trouble the new gentile believers with CIRCUMCISION as a means of salvation. They are new converts that will learn more about GOD'S WORD when? EVERY SABBATH. In the meantime you should abstain from anything offered to idols, and from blood, and from things strangled, and from fornication.
NOPE nothing written about the 10 Commandments being abolished in this chapter. Here is what PAUL says of the matter here...
1 CORINTHIANS 7 [19] CIRCUMCISION IS NOTHING, AND UNCIRCUMCISION IS NOTHING,
BUT THE KEEPING OF THE COMMANDMENTS OF GOD.
ACTS 15 is about “CIRCUMCISION” as a requirement for salvation and is not even considering Gods 10 Commandments. “Circumcision” is one of the shadow laws of the MOSAIC BOOK of the COVENANT.
more to come...
