Was the 70th Week of Daniel Fulfilled during the First Century?

TribulationSigns

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No, verse 26(b) refers to the destruction by the soldiers of prince Titus.

Titus was NOT the "people of the prince" that the pre mill and preterism seem to believe. The prince is speaking of the SAME PRINCE in context. Daniel 9:24-27 is talking about God and HIS PEOPLE. Not a third-party.

No, verse 27(b) refers to Christ ending the former method of atonement.

Not true. Remember the cease of sacrifice happens after the confirmation of the covenant...in the midst (not middle) of the week. So you got the wrong sacrifice.

No, verse 27(c) refers to the continuation of animal atonement in contradiction of Christ’s finished work.

Again not true. Here is my reference post.

Yes, verse 27(a) refers to the entire 70th week from AD 27 to AD 34. So does verse 24 refer to the entire 70th week.

Dan 9:27
(27) And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.

Again not true. Daniel's 70th week did not end in AD 34. It did not end UNTIL Christ returns at the consummation.
 
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TribulationSigns

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I have no interest in arguing with you about this. I'm content that we agree that the New Covenant was confirmed long ago.

It was confirmed long ago at the Cross for His People, including us. Else we are not saved under his covenant. Selah.

Can you try to tone it down a couple notches? Your tough guy act and Mr. Authoritarian way of speaking doesn't fly with me.

In another word, you were offended by the Word of God I testified that you felt was tough? Well tough love.

While I agree with a good amount of what you believe, I don't agree with everything. I don't like the way you talk to people, as if you know everything and can't possibly be wrong about anything.

Since when people defend their position with SCRIPTURE to rebuttal me? All they cried about the "tone" of my testimony without actually examine my post with Scripture and prove it.

I believe it is referring to animal sacrifices and nothing you've said changes my mind about that.

It is up to the Lord to change anyone's mind, including myself. The Lord judges and I am comfortable with that. My testimony is here as a public record, whether your mind has changed or not. I can dispute your position so be prepared to defend yourself with Scripture.

So you need to deal with the content, not the personality, of my post. Do you have a problem with my testimony on Hebrew 9:14-17 regarding how the covenant was confirmed? Where is your Scripture proof for "7 years mature" of the covenant is based? Enlighten me, I am waiting else your position can't be sustained without Scripture proof.
 
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Spiritual Jew

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It was confirmed long ago at the Cross for His People, including us. Else we are not saved under his covenant. Selah.
In a sense it was, but in another sense it was confirmed to those in Israel who had not yet heard the gospel when it was first preached there before going to the Gentiles.

Since when people defend their position with SCRIPTURE to rebuttal me? All they cried about the "tone" of my testimony without actually examine my post with Scripture and prove it.
You don't have a Christ-like attitude. You just try to bully people into believing what you do. Your avatar says it all about you and it's a shame. Your attitude does matter whether you acknowledge it or not. You think you're right, we're wrong and that's that. Give me a break. I'm not playing that game. I back up my views with scripture constantly so don't tell me about defending my position with scripture.

It is up to the Lord to change anyone's mind, including myself. The Lord judges and I am comfortable with that. My testimony is here as a public record, whether your mind has changed or not. Just like the Bible itself. Not everyone will receive it.
I will receive the truth from scripture by way of the Holy Spirit. You are not the Holy Spirit.

So you need to deal with the content, not the personality, of my post.
I will deal with both. Your haughty attitude is unacceptable for a Christian and I'm not afraid to tell you so. If you're not willing to change that then stop talking to me.
 
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TribulationSigns

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I find that to be completely mind boggling for any Christian to believe this. Do you somehow not understand that the New Covenant has to do with Christ's shed blood for our sins and how He has provided the way to salvation and the forgiveness of sins? Without the New Covenant being established, you are not saved. And the Old Covenant would still be in effect as well. Do you think the Old Covenant is still in effect?

Agreed.

Where does it say anything about a covenant (or peace treaty) being confirmed?

For clarification for you and a note against Premill, a covenant is not a "peace treaty" a piece of paper where their version of antichrist will sign with national Israel. It is a SPIRITUAL covenant that Christ confirmed with his blood which has nothing to do with National Israel, only with His people, both old and new testament Saints. With His Blood, He confirmed the covenant with "many" (NOT ALL as if everyone in the world). With "many" which obviously proves that Christ did not die for "everyone" on Earth.

It obviously logically and Biblically we see that this also proves that the length of the week is from the cross, to the end, not AD 34, because that is the time of the confirmed or strengthened Covenant with Messiah. The only Covenant confirmed or strengthened by anyone in scripture. The only one where we see this language used. The will be confirmed at the cross, the inheritance received at the end. Not AD 41 (if you add 7 years after Christ's death in AD 34). The New Covenant with Israel that Messiah/Christ confirmed. The New Covenant or Testament Church. The word, "Covenant" and "Testament" are the same. But don't take my word for it. Read Hebrews chapters 8 and 9 carefully, and God makes that abundantly clear. Speaking of the New Testament with relationship to the Old Testament, God says:

Hebrews 8:9
  • "For finding fault with them, (the old Covenant) He saith, behold, the days come saith the Lord, when I will make a New Covenant with the house of ISRAEL and with the house of Judah:
Hebrews Chapters 8 and 9 make it clear the New Covenant with Israel "IS" the New Covenant Church. I ask no one to accept my words, study these two chapters yourself. This is the Covenant confirmed, made authoritative, strengthened in Christ. And these chapters show the New Covenant is strengthened in Christ's blood for the Israel of God and it lasted until the Consummation when Christ returns for His people.
 
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TribulationSigns

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In a sense it was, but in another sense it was confirmed to those in Israel who had not yet heard the gospel when it was first preached there before going to the Gentiles.

What "another sense" was it based on in Scripture. Based on your personal opinion/interpreation or the Word of God. Show me.

There is no separation between the Jews and the Gentile in Christ. So no need for a covenant to "mature" in 7 years for the Jews first then the Gentiles. Scripture, please.

You don't have a Christ-like attitude. You just try to bully people into believing what you do. Your avatar says it all about you and it's a shame. Your attitude does matter whether you acknowledge it or not. You think you're right, we're wrong and that's that. Give me a break. I'm not playing that game. I back up my views with scripture constantly so don't tell me about defending my position with scripture.

Avatar...? Sigh, okay I will change my fan for NFL's Chicago Bears to something else soon.

I can see that you have back up your view with Scripture constantly which is good. Keep it up. However, please provide chapter and verse on what I asked to justify your position on "7 years mature of the covenant", ON THE SPOT. Do you have a problem with it?

will receive the truth from scripture by way of the Holy Spirit. You are not the Holy Spirit.

Strawman. You knew it is not true. I am not the Holy Spirit. I presented a Scripture. Where is your Scripture to defend your position? Why get yourself distracted by being offended, and tried to blame on my avatar or something like that because you could not defend yourself?

Luk 21:15
(15) For I will give you a mouth and wisdom, which all your adversaries shall not be able to gainsay nor resist.

Gal 4:16
(16) Am I therefore become your enemy, because I tell you the truth?
 
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mkgal1

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The 70 weeks are determined for the Jews and Jerusalem to embrace Jesus and the gospel of salvation. Has not been completed yet, because they have not. I don't know why that is so complicated.

A small percentage of the Jews became Christians. Most did not.
That's actually what should be awe-inspiring to Christians.

The very small group of biblical JEWISH followers that Jesus had after His resurrection were up against the Roman empire AND the religious Zealots that were murdering high priests and anyone that didn't fight with them against the Roman army.

Who came out on top? Who has their religion now? Christianity or the ancient JewishZealots? What movement has lasted?

Even the Roman Empire crumbled a few centuries later (if I am remembering correctly).
 
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FaithWillDo

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Neither 1 Corinthians 15:52 or 1 Thess 4:17 are the 'bodily resurrection of the dead.
1 Cor 15:50-56, is a prophecy about the GWT Judgment after the Millennium and the faithful dead will be raised to spiritual immortality, along with those who are alive at that time. Only those whose names are Written in the Book of Life. The rest go into the Lake of Fire. Rev 20:11-15

1 Thess 4:15-17 is about the Return of Jesus, when only the dead martyrs, killed during the Great Trib, will be raised. Revelation 20:4
The living people of God, those who stood firm in their faith and endured during all the graphically prophesied events of the end times, will be gathered to where Jesus will reign from for the next 1000 years. Matthew 24:30-31

Keras,
As I have stated, the New Covenant is spiritual and happens "within" us. The Old Covenant is literal and happens on the outside. You are still living under the Old Covenant paradigm and are still under the Law. You see everything as "outward" when you should be looking for understanding "inwardly". Christ returns to us spiritually (within us) and without observation. Nearly all "End-time" prophecy teaches about the events that happen to us inwardly (spiritually). When Christ describes those events, He uses the physical to represent the spiritual. Christ's work is now only "within". He does not need to work of the outside as you see the events. If He cleans the inside, the outside will also be clean.

Joe
 
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mkgal1

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But calendar years are not necessary (or even possible because the calendars have built in flaws) for understanding Daniel 9. What is necessary is the events and the spacing.
Calendars and our way of keeping time are how we date all this. It is how we can prove that a prophecy given to Daniel 600 years prior was fulfilled......beautifully.on.time.

Do you think the way secular historians date things caught God off guard?
 
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TribulationSigns

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Keras,
As I have stated, the New Covenant is spiritual and happens "within" us.

Amen!

The Old Covenant is literal and happens on the outside. You are still living under the Old Covenant paradigm and are still under the Law.

Amen!

You see everything as "outward" when you should be looking for understanding "inwardly".

Amen! In other words, lack of spiritual discernment.

Christ returns to us spiritually (within us) and without observation.

Amen.

Luk 17:20-21
(20) And when he was demanded of the Pharisees, when the kingdom of God should come, he answered them and said, The kingdom of God cometh not with observation:
(21) Neither shall they say, Lo here! or, lo there! for, behold, the kingdom of God is within you.

Nearly all "End-time" prophecy teaches about the events that happen to us inwardly (spiritually). When Christ describes those events, He uses the physical to represent the spiritual. Christ's work is now only "within". He does not need to work of the outside as you see the events. If He cleans the inside, the outside will also be clean.

Indeed. And the New Testament congregation, too, because she is a visible representative of God's Kingdom where the Elect and Professed Christians dwells.
 
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Douggg

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Calendars and our way of keeping time are how we date all this. It is how we can prove that a prophecy given to Daniel 600 years prior was fulfilled......beautifully.on.time.

Do you think the way secular historians date things caught God off guard?
You are relying on faulty data to support a faulty conclusion.

The messiah arrived in Jerusalem on Psalms Sunday. 4 days later was crucified.

For them placing the messiah cutoff in the middle of the 70th week, would also place the messiah arriving 4 days earlier in the middle of the 70 week.

Which is way more than 483 years of v25, at 486 1/2 years.

Look at my diagram, do you see any dates on it?



upload_2021-4-30_18-16-12.jpeg
 
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mkgal1

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All of this still misses the point, and that is, where can we see anything in Daniel 9:25-27 involving that period of time specifically? It for sure isn't in verse 27, yet verse 27 is the 70th week.
Remember that in Daniel 12.....Gabriel instructs Daniel to "seal up the books until the 'time of the end'? There was still - at that point, at least six hundred years to go.....so not everything in detail was disclosed to Daniel. The details of what was to happen 600 years later wasn't necessary for Daniel at that time.

However......Gabriel is who showed up again to bring messages to Zechariah and Mary (recorded in Luke 1). I'd follow that trail that is left for us. THAT was "the time of the end" that was being launched (the final week of the 70 weeks and the end of the 490 years - the time of the promised Messiah).
 
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mkgal1

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You are relying on faulty data to support a faulty conclusion.
"Faulty" according to whom? You?

As I posted earlier.....that's why I'm a fan of focusing strictly on the basic math first. It lines up with the Scripture (Old and new testament) as well as secular historical fact (Muslims, Jews, Atheists, Christian historians etc don't disagree on the facts of Jesus of Nazareth). It seems only futurists and all other Christians are the two groups that disagree (with futurists on their own).
 
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FaithWillDo

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Amen!



Amen!



Amen! In other words, lack of spiritual discernment.



Amen.

Luk 17:20-21
(20) And when he was demanded of the Pharisees, when the kingdom of God should come, he answered them and said, The kingdom of God cometh not with observation:
(21) Neither shall they say, Lo here! or, lo there! for, behold, the kingdom of God is within you.



Indeed. And the New Testament congregation, too, because she is a visible representative of God's Kingdom where the Elect and Professed Christians dwells.



Dear Tribulation Signs,
I happy to hear that you can agree with me on my last post. But from your name, it sounds like you still believe much as keras does. Is that true?

I have written quite a bit on this thread now. I would be interested in knowing how much of what I stated you might also agree with.

Do you believe the End-time events are spiritual and happen within the Elect? Do you understand the Early and Latter Rain? Amazingly few believers understand it. But "many are called and few are chosen". "Few" really is a small number.

But I don't won't to sound like no one as any hope of being one of Christ's Elect, too. Everyone who has been called out and has received the Early Rain, may in fact also be one of Christ's chosen. The Elect, before they receive the Latter Rain, are no different from any other "called out" believer. My beliefs were probably very much like Keras' beliefs before I received the Latter Rain. I even taught End-time prophecy in my church and I believed very much like Keras. When Christ comes to a believer a second time to give them the Latter Rain, He comes as a thief in the night. He comes to destroy the Man of Sin who we have become but He also causes us to be "born again". At that time, He also heals our spiritual blindness so that we can finally understand His truth. I am still amazed at the power of God to not only heal our blindness but to keep others completely blinded. This verse really is true:

Dan 4:35 And all the inhabitants of the earth are reputed as nothing; and he doeth according to his will in the army of the heavens, and among the inhabitants of the earth; and none can stay his hand, or say unto him, What doest thou?

I received the Latter Rain on Oct. 8, 2005 and it turned my world upside down. I experienced the thunder, lightning, earthquakes and trumpet. It spiritually shook my world. Even the sun was darkened and the moon turned to blood. In other words, the natural light (false truth) that my carnal nature fed upon was darkened. Now my light comes from Christ:

2Thes 2:8 And then shall that Wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming:

When Christ came to me on that day (the Day of the Lord), His light destroyed who I had become under Satan's deceptions. My Man of Sin was destroyed in "one hour" and I stood back and could see the smoke of her burning. It was the greatest day of my life.

My testimony from that time is posted in my profile. I read it sometimes and I still can hardly believe it happened.

Thanks for your input. If I can share any of my understanding with you, I would be happy to do so.
Joe
 
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mkgal1

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The messiah arrived in Jerusalem on Psalms Sunday. 4 days later was crucified.
Peter said it all began with God's anointing of Jesus in the Jordan River.....that was 26/27 AD when Jesus was 30 years old (the customary age a biblical Jew could teach with authority).

Acts 10:37
You yourselves know what has happened throughout Judea, beginning in Galilee with the baptism that John proclaimed:

I will take Peter’s word over yours, Douggg.
 
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Douggg

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"Faulty" according to whom? You?

As I posted earlier.....that's why I'm a fan of focusing strictly on the basic math first. It lines up with the Scripture (Old and new testament) as well as secular historical fact (Muslims, Jews, Atheists, Christian historians etc don't disagree on the facts of Jesus of Nazareth). It seems only futurists and all other Christians are the two groups that disagree (with futurists on their own).
According to what I have read regarding the establishment of the gregorian calendar.

7 weeks, 62 weeks, 1 week - are spacing terms. Not dates on a calendar.

The space before the arrival of the messiah is 483.

The space following the confirming of the covenant is 7 years.

Completion of the time of the end vision and prophecy of the little person is in the seven years.
 
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Douggg

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Peter said it all began with God's anointing of Jesus in the Jordan River.....that was 26/27 AD when Jesus was 30 years old (the customary age a biblical Jew could teach with authority).

Acts 10:37
You yourselves know what has happened throughout Judea, beginning in Galilee with the baptism that John proclaimed:

I will take Peter’s word over yours, Douggg.
Peter was not talking about unto Messiah's arrival in Jerusalem. John did in John 12:12-15.
 
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TribulationSigns

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Dear Tribulation Signs,
I happy to hear that you can agree with me on my last post. But from your name, it sounds like you still believe much as keras does. Is that true?

I take that you really have not read several my posts against Keras carefully lately. :) So I suggest that you take the time to read my posts for a season.

Do you believe the End-time events are spiritual and happen within the Elect?

Actually the end-time events apply more to the New Testament Congregation that affects God's people within.

Do you understand the Early and Latter Rain? Amazingly few believers understand it. But "many are called and few are chosen". "Few" really is a small number.

Okay, and...?

I received the Latter Rain on Oct. 8, 2005 and it turned my world upside down. I experienced the thunder, lightning, earthquakes and trumpet. It spiritually shook my world. Even the sun was darkened and the moon turned to blood. In other words, the natural light (false truth) that my carnal nature fed upon was darkened.

Yeah? So your body was filled with earthquakes, lighting and trumpet along with sun-darkened on October 8, 2005? Well, I am sorry I do not believe this is what the Bible wanted us to understand this way.

2Thes 2:8 And then shall that Wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming:
When Christ came to me on that day (the Day of the Lord), His light destroyed who I had become under Satan's deceptions. My Man of Sin was destroyed in "one hour" and I stood back and could see the smoke of her burning. It was the greatest day of my life.

Ahhh...okaaayyy... so you seem to attempt to apply the verses in the book of Revelation to your own body? Sorry, I disagree with this. This is not what Bible wanted us to understand this way. But thanks for sharing.
 
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jeffweedaman

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What "another sense" was it based on in Scripture. Based on your personal opinion/interpreation or the Word of God. Show me.

There is no separation between the Jews and the Gentile in Christ. So no need for a covenant to "mature" in 7 years for the Jews first then the Gentiles. Scripture, please.

Scripture states that the cov will be confirmed for one week. Selah.

The only logical way to confirm it for 1 week after Jesus is crucified in the midst of it ,is for the Church to receive the Holy Spirit as Jesus did when he had the Holy Spirit descend on him to begin his Ministry.

That Ministry of reconciliation hath been given to us and its clear when this began.
What a way to confirm what Jesus did for us on the cross for the remainder of that week.

At this point the 70 weeks that were decreed for Daniels people came to an end.
Paul was raised up to go to the Gentiles, which he eventually did , once he got the green light that the 70 weeks had finished.


Acts 13
Paul Turns to the Gentiles
44 The next Sabbath nearly all the city assembled to hear the word of the Lord. 45 But when the Jews saw the crowds, they were filled with jealousy and began contradicting the things spoken by Paul, and were blaspheming. 46 Paul and Barnabas spoke out boldly and said, “It was necessary that the word of God be spoken to you first. Since you repudiate it and consider yourselves unworthy of eternal life,

behold, we are turning to the Gentiles. 47 For so the Lord has commanded us,
‘I have appointed You as a light to the Gentiles,
That You may bring salvation to the end of the earth.’”


48 When the Gentiles heard this, they began rejoicing and glorifying the word of the Lord; and all who had been appointed to eternal life believed. 49 And the word of the Lord was being spread through the whole region. 50 But the Jews incited the devout women of prominence and the leading men of the city, and instigated a persecution against Paul and Barnabas, and drove them out of their region. 51 But they shook off the dust from their feet in protest against them and went to Iconium. 52 And the disciples were continually filled with joy and with the Holy Spirit.

.
 
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keras

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I find that to be completely mind boggling for any Christian to believe this. Do you somehow not understand that the New Covenant has to do with Christ's shed blood for our sins and how He has provided the way to salvation and the forgiveness of sins? Without the New Covenant being established, you are not saved. And the Old Covenant would still be in effect as well. Do you think the Old Covenant is still in effect?
We have beaten this issue into a pulp before.
No; the Old Covenant is gone, history. Currently we have no Covenant with God, we have the Promise of it and Jesus has done His part.
It will be made between the Lord and His faithful people, as they live in peace and prosperity in the holy Land. Note in Daniel 11:32, how some Christians will violate the Covenant.

The desperate attempts to force a fulfillment of the six tenets, of Daniel 9:24, fail miserably. Rebellion is not stopped, sin is not brought to an end and righteousness established, iniquity expiated, prophecy ratified and the Holy Place is not yet anointed.
All these await the Return of Jesus
 
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