Biden Introduces American Families Plan

Oneiric1975 · Apr 30, 2021

myst33 said:
Because taxes are taken by force. Its not a free decision.

Ahh, a ZAP/NAP guy. Got it.

No reason to debate the concept of taxation with someone who clearly thinks being asked to pay for something is an act of aggression.

Sorry to waste your time. Thanks.

SummerMadness · Apr 30, 2021

trunks2k said:
Yep, a story I often re-tell is overhearing my coworker deciding if she could afford $TEST to rule out $SERIOUS_DISEASE. She was fresh out of college with no savings and her first "real" job that gave her insurance. She spent most of the day going back and forth between calling the lab and our work insurance and kept getting wildly different numbers. She had no idea how much the test was going to cost, and was thinking it just wasn't worth the risk of it basically wiping out all the money she had.

We were telling her that she should be fully covered since it was her primary care referring the test. Ultimately, she listened to us, and we were right. But it was crazy that nobody could tell her how much it would cost her.

That's one reason why I support a single payer system. Forget the bargaining power and people not going bankrupt because they get sick, the thing that a single-payer system brings is economic freedom. Many people stay in jobs they dislike for the Healthcare. If companies were not paying for healthcare, they would gave more capital, which would mean higher wages. And then the companies will have to compete for their employees, which helps wages even more. As it stands now, people are looking for that job just to find healthcare and then are trapped with few options for their healthcare.

Oneiric1975 · Apr 30, 2021

SummerMadness said:
No billionaire is self-made. There is a lot of help, including work by employees and collaborators, help from government. Like your shipping company has the government-sponsored interstate to thank for getting goods around at a cheap cost. Your online company has the government-sponsored Internet to thank for your websites success. Paying more in taxes has led to large corporations being more prosperous, the United States experienced its best economic periods during eras of "high taxes." The notion that low taxes breeds innovation and more prosperity is completely, false, it is not supported by the data. When everyone pays their fair share in taxes, it helps stabilize the middle class and provides assistance to the poor.

When corporations are reaping record profits, while filling out government assistance applications for their employees, they're stealing from you. Just make them pay their fair share in taxes, then we won't have this problem.

It's even more grossly obvious when megacorporations demand that localities "bid" (by giving away tax breaks) to companies to locate their headquarters in various towns. It's almost like they think they are BETTER than the average citizen.

trophy33 · Apr 30, 2021

Oneiric1975 said:
Ahh, a ZAP/NAP guy. Got it.

No idea what that means.

Oneiric1975 said:
No reason to debate the concept of taxation with someone who clearly thinks being asked to pay for something is an act of aggression.

... being forced to pay for somebody's else expenditures is an act of aggression

Oneiric1975 said:
Sorry to waste your time.

Its OK.

Oneiric1975 · Apr 30, 2021

SummerMadness said:
That's one reason why I support a single payer system. Forget the bargaining power and people not going bankrupt because they get sick, the thing that a single-payer system brings is economic freedom. Many people stay in jobs they dislike for the Healthcare. If companies were not paying for healthcare, they would gave more capital, which would mean higher wages. And then the companies will have to compete for their employees, which helps wages even more. As it stands now, people are looking for that job just to find healthcare and then are trapped with few options for their healthcare.

The whole lie that the AMerican healthcare system is somehow a "free market" is risible at best. Depressing at worst. Indeed as you point out, Summer, employers kind of have a lock on their employees because the employee cannot risk going after a different job if it means losing healthcare.

And the insurance companies take a huge chunk out of the healthcare budget just to process paperwork.

Couple all that with the horrors of insurance company abuses and their own version of "death panels" and you have one of the worst systems imaginable short of no healthcare (and for many Americans they are one and the same).

Oneiric1975 · Apr 30, 2021

myst33 said:
No idea what that means.

knowledge is power

trophy33 · Apr 30, 2021

Oneiric1975 said:
Those are the Libertarian nutjobs who think taxes are an act of aggression against them. I can only assume they think society is a "free lunch" for them if they don't wanna pay for it.

I am sorry I made you mad.
I am paying all my taxes. I just do not want more successful people to pay higher portion than me just because they are smarter than me or just because they work harder than me.

Oneiric1975 · Apr 30, 2021

myst33 said:
I am sorry I made you mad.

What makes you think you caused me to be mad? You really aren't anything to me, so why would I be mad?

I am paying all my taxes. I just do not want more successful people to pay higher portion than me just because they are smarter than me or just because they work harder than me.

A lot of them pay much less than you do in terms of percentages. But that's OK, they're better than you are so it's OK.

trophy33 · Apr 30, 2021

Oneiric1975 said:
What makes you think you caused me to be mad?

Your reactions seem to be emotional. Using "nutjobs" and similar insults. This makes me think you are out of your self-control, ie. mad.

Oneiric1975 · Apr 30, 2021

myst33 said:
Your reactions seem to be emotional. Using "nutjobs" and similar insults

Oh, no, I just think people who find the concept of taxation equivalent to armed robbery to be a bit "off" if you will.

. This makes me think you are out of your self-control, ie. mad.

You are free to think what you like. Again, don't stress it. You mean nothing to me personally so it would be hard for you to make me "mad".

If you want to fantasize that your points were somehow "impactful" then by all means, enjoy. They weren't. Sorry to disappoint.

I'm good.

trophy33 · Apr 30, 2021

Oneiric1975 said:
You mean nothing to me personally

Stressing this fact over and over or writing "ME" in all caps in your posts indicate that you are actually taking these online conversations quite personally.

Oneiric1975 · Apr 30, 2021

myst33 said:
Stressing this fact over and over or writing "ME" in all caps in your posts indicate that you are actually taking these online conversations quite personally.

You are now kind of annoying me. But I suspect that was the plan.

mala · Apr 30, 2021

renniks said:
Yes they are. What will happen is more and more of our income will be taxed away. Perhaps you remember our history? We came here to get away from that. To create a country where there is truly equal opportunity. We who lived through the cold war, saw where socialism / communism leads. We heard about the food lines in Russia. And the same crap is happening now in other socialistic countries

the american colonists were already paying lower taxes than their british counterparts.

essentialsaltes · Apr 30, 2021

Michelle Bachmann: not a fan of Biden's plan to support families and children.

Whyayeman · Apr 30, 2021

What happened to the lower paid in this welter of emotion about the super-rich being required to pay a bit more in taxes? Who would really be hurt if billionaires lost a significant portion of their wealth? Not them, since they cannot possibly use their amassed wealth to improve their lives.

The case for welfare is not about the rights of a dozen billionaires; it is really about millions in your country living their lives in poverty. Shouldn't a decent society look after them?

BigDaddy4 · Apr 30, 2021

Oneiric1975 said:
He didn’t create Amazon in a vacuum. He didn’t create the internet and he doesn’t do all the work.

I didn't say any of that, so irrelevant I guess. Bezos is credited as the founder of Amazon. I don't know what you're going on about here.

Oneiric1975 said:
I agree he has done an amazing thing with Amazon but it was not created out of whole cloth by one man. Besides he’s enjoying Top marginal tax rates lower than in the 1950’s. Was America a communist dictatorship at that time?

Not seeing the relevance of your question here.

Whyayeman · Apr 30, 2021

renniks said:
No loss of liberty! Yeah, I'm aware that these are partially socialist countries. I'm also aware of all the liberties that they are losing.

A short list would be helpful.

Oneiric1975 · Apr 30, 2021

BigDaddy4 said:
I didn't say any of that, so irrelevant I guess. Bezos is credited as the founder of Amazon. I don't know what you're going on about here.

Not seeing the relevance of your question here.

I don't understand what you mean.

BigDaddy4 · Apr 30, 2021

Oneiric1975 said:
my first patents netted me NOTHING. I was given nothing for them by my employer. Yet I survived.

Then they weren't "yours". They were your company's and you get the recognition for it. The company gets the financial benefit. That's how things go when you work for a company.

Oneiric1975 · Apr 30, 2021

Whyayeman said:
The case for welfare is not about the rights of a dozen billionaires; it is really about millions in your country living their lives in poverty. Shouldn't a decent society look after them?

Yes a decent society WOULD look after them. We aren't that society.

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