Discussion Spiritual Warfare

ARBITER01 said:

But you see,.... I'm not doing deliverance.

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I was wondering if that was the case.
But then I ask,-
A) Why did you argued your case using Jesus's personal deliverances as reference.
B) If you know so much about deliverance, why are you not doing it, given the crying need in the church.

I'm not casting them out of people, I'm dealing with a territorial area and casting them down, I have to rely upon The Father and The Holy Spirit's leading and guidance, and I have 100% success rate by doing so.

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A) I have been doing territorial warfare since the 80s, and would still argue the same principles apply as in personal deliverance. ie. we issue commands in Jesus name.
And I have witnessed many successes in such long range warfare, but many battles are long term battles.

B) And by what measure can you claim 100% success

Looking through the thread, it seems people have an assumption that spiritual warfare culminates in the face-off between the Christian and a demon possessed person.

Read Ephesians again,...

Eph 6:10 Finally, be strong in the Lord, and in the strength of his might.
Eph 6:11 Put on the whole armour of God, that ye may be able to stand against the wiles of the devil.
Eph 6:12 For our wrestling is not against flesh and blood, but against the principalities, against the powers, against the world–rulers of this darkness, against the spiritual hosts of wickedness in the heavenly places.
Eph 6:13 Wherefore take up the whole armour of God, that ye may be able to withstand in the evil day, and, having done all, to stand.

The Holy Spirit has already stated in this section of scripture that the battle has now become much greater since Jesus rose up to The Father. People need to open their eyes and realize our dealings with evil are on a much grander scale than only casting critters out of people.

To be honest, I think the church may get broadsided by this. They concentrate way too much on worldly issues such as abortion and politics.

Francis Drake said:

I was wondering if that was the case.
But then I ask,-
A) Why did you argued your case using Jesus's personal deliverances as reference.

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You're talking about the demoniac reference?

Luk 8:31 And they entreated him that he would not command them to depart into the abyss.

That was the only time in scripture where Jesus ran up against a force strong enough to withstand Him somewhat. With the reference of them being cast into the abyss, I suppose Jesus was doing this on a regular basis, He didn't allow them to go find someone else to inhabit, He got rid of them for good, and they knew it.

That was the line of scripture that The Holy Spirit used in a revelation moment to me. I instantly understood that there was not a limitation on it being used just in personal deliverance, but that it could also be used on a grander scale, such as dealing with evil forces that take over areas or are used by people for nefarious means.

I was granted an immediate understanding of it as well as the faith to do it by The Holy Spirit, and have been doing it since. So far, GOD has never complained once about it to me when I have asked.

Francis Drake said:

B) If you know so much about deliverance, why are you not doing it, given the crying need in the church.

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I guess I should correct myself.

The Lord Jesus has used me in deliverance in the past, but it hasn't been inside the church yet. Just recently, GOD used me to deliver a gal I know from a big evil spirit, and it was done by prayer. She lives about 30 miles away.

I used the same pattern that GOD showed me and I described here, and it was removed from her without me being there with her. The Lord also showed me it was going to happen this way in a dream 6 months ago.

Maybe the prayer form of this that I use has more application at a distance and surrounding area, whereas the commanding of it from a person in proximity like you do is what we should expect The Holy Spirit to use in that situation.

ARBITER01 said:

Looking through the thread, it seems people have an assumption that spiritual warfare culminates in the face-off between the Christian and a demon possessed person.

Read Ephesians again,...

Eph 6:10 Finally, be strong in the Lord, and in the strength of his might.
Eph 6:11 Put on the whole armour of God, that ye may be able to stand against the wiles of the devil.
Eph 6:12 For our wrestling is not against flesh and blood, but against the principalities, against the powers, against the world–rulers of this darkness, against the spiritual hosts of wickedness in the heavenly places.
Eph 6:13 Wherefore take up the whole armour of God, that ye may be able to withstand in the evil day, and, having done all, to stand.

The Holy Spirit has already stated in this section of scripture that the battle has now become much greater since Jesus rose up to The Father. People need to open their eyes and realize our dealings with evil are on a much grander scale than only casting critters out of people.

To be honest, I think the church may get broadsided by this. They concentrate way too much on worldly issues such as abortion and politics.

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On this we agree, but expecting the church to handle such spiritual warfare is a stretch, given that the church is ruled by some of the most powerful principalities out!

Carl Emerson said:

Paul certainly records limits being placed on those practicing spiritual wickedness...

Acts 16
16 It happened that as we were going to the place of prayer, a slave woman who had a spirit of divination met us, who was bringing great profit to her masters by fortune-telling. 17 She followed Paul and us and cried out repeatedly, saying, “These men are bond-servants of the Most High God, who are proclaiming to you a way of salvation.” 18 Now she continued doing this for many days. But Paul was greatly annoyed, and he turned and said to the spirit, “I command you in the name of Jesus Christ to come out of her!” And it came out at that very moment.

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This is what you said in post No24

What happened to Satan getting permission from God before he can act as we read in Job.

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And you imagine the above verse supports that notion, when it proves the absolute opposite.
Until Paul's ACTIVE COMMAND to stop it, that demon was free do entirely what it wanted.

You cannot get away from the fact that Jesus has put responsibility on the saints to drive demons out, and until they do, demons will continue to do what they want.

Francis Drake said:

You can't compare Peter to Job.
Peter was deeply flawed, whereas there was nobody like Job on the whole earth.

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Not correct.

If you read right to the end of Job, you will see he repented of his attitudes.

Francis Drake said:

Again you misapply scripture.
If Satan has to ask Jesus permission before he acts, you tell me how that verse applies when Satan instigates the rape of a 3 year old girl.

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It is more appropriate to make scripture accountable to scripture rather than emotion.

We over-rate this life - That little girl is in the arms of Jesus and is fully healed and enjoying the wonders of eternity.

Using your emotional logic Jesus and His followers would not have faced hideous deaths.

I have decided to withdraw from this discussion because your judgemental aggression is not good for the culture of CF and you seem incapable of gracious disagreement.

Carl Emerson said:

4. Satan is not able to do what he pleases on earth.

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Oh yes he is. As proven by the scripture you quote below.

Luke 10
17 Now the seventy-two returned with joy, saying, “Lord, even the demons are subject to us in Your name!” 18 And He said to them, “I watched Satan fall from heaven like lightning. 19 Behold, I have given you authority to walk on snakes and scorpions, and authority over all the power of the enemy, and nothing will injure you. 20 Nevertheless, do not rejoice in this, that the spirits are subject to you, but rejoice that your names are recorded in heaven.”

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Go read it again and you will see it proves that those demons were doing exactly what they liked, until the disciples cast them out under the power of the Holy Spirit.
ie. The very opposite of what you keep stating.

Again and again scripture, plus world history, plus church history, all prove that there is no automatic protection just because you are a Christian.
Satan and his evil demons can only be dealt with when Christians get off their faithless backsides and make it happen.

ARBITER01 said:

When people lock themselves away in their church buildings for the majority of your born again lives, they never grow or mature spiritually.
.

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Whoda thunk that?

My real spiritual journey over the last 60 years has outside of the church.
Remaining within church walls will always be of a straight jacket for anyone seriously wanting to grow in God.

Carl Emerson said:

Yes about the battle.

It should be noted that attacks can come because of righteousness and not just sin.

We all need to appropriate the Armour of God which includes a putting on of His righteousness not ours.

In Jesus Name is a positional statement.

"Though I walk through the valley of the shadow of death I will fear no evil...

"He that is within is greater than he that is in the world...

We cannot have this assurance if we over-blow the power and authority of Satan. God dictates the limits of the battle not Satan.

John 17:
12
I kept them in your name, which you have given me. I have guarded them, and not one of them has been lost except the son of destruction, that the Scripture might be fulfilled.

15
I do not ask that you take them out of the world, but that you keep them from the evil one... THAT IS US...

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amen.
reminds me of Pauls "thorn" sent by satan because of the immense revelation.
Satan comes "because of" the Word.

Francis Drake said:

I don't know what world you live in, but it doesn't sound like any of the Christianity I've even met in the last 50 or so years.

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I'm quoting Scripture.
That was God's Word, not mine.
Dunno what to tell you, but THAT is what we look like when we're led
by the Spirit of God. We can't stand sin. Hate sin. detest it and run from it.
What world do YOU live in is my question.

Seriously though, I totally get what you're saying. No, sadly it doesn't "look"
like the "Christianity" we see.

Yes he put it there, but not for the reasons espoused here.

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According to Scripture, it's all been given for an ensample to us.

sunlover1 said:

amen.
reminds me of Pauls "thorn" sent by satan because of the immense revelation.
Satan comes "because of" the Word.

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The story of Paul's thorn in the flesh is very revealing, once you study the context.
2Cor12v Therefore, that I should not become conceited, a thorn in my flesh was given to me, a messenger of Satan, that he might buffet me, so that I should not become conceited. 8Three times I begged the Lord for this, that it might depart from me. 9And He said to me, “My grace suffices you, for the power is perfected in weakness.” Therefore will I boast rather most gladly in my weaknesses, so that the power of Christ may rest upon me. 10Therefore I take pleasure in weaknesses, in insults, in hardships, in persecutions, and difficulties for Christ; for when I might be weak, then I am strong.

Paul was exceedingly well taught in the scriptures, and when he spoke of his thorn in the flesh, he wasn't being original, but was in fact quoting Numbers33v55 But if you do not drive out the inhabitants of the land before you, those you allow to remain will become barbs in your eyes and thorns in your sides; they will harass you in the land where you settle.

And as Numbers33 makes clear, it was their responsibility, under the anointing of the Holy Spirit, to drive the evil inhabitants of the land out. And it is exactly the same today, it is our responsibility to drive out the evil inhabitants, the demons, of our physical body, and if we refuse to do so, then the Lord will let them remain to torment us, just as he left the OT inhabitants to torment the Israelites.

When Paul begged the Lord 3 times that the demon would depart, the Lord refused for the simple reason that he had already commanded that man would drive them out.
The Lord told Paul that His Grace was sufficient, which means that Paul had been saved through Grace, and that Salvation raised Paul far above the demonic powers, in order to cast the demons out under the power of the HS.

Francis Drake said:

The story of Paul's thorn in the flesh is very revealing, once you study the context.
2Cor12v Therefore, that I should not become conceited, a thorn in my flesh was given to me, a messenger of Satan, that he might buffet me, so that I should not become conceited. 8Three times I begged the Lord for this, that it might depart from me. 9And He said to me, “My grace suffices you, for the power is perfected in weakness.” Therefore will I boast rather most gladly in my weaknesses, so that the power of Christ may rest upon me. 10Therefore I take pleasure in weaknesses, in insults, in hardships, in persecutions, and difficulties for Christ; for when I might be weak, then I am strong.

Paul was exceedingly well taught in the scriptures, and when he spoke of his thorn in the flesh, he wasn't being original, but was in fact quoting Numbers33v55 But if you do not drive out the inhabitants of the land before you, those you allow to remain will become barbs in your eyes and thorns in your sides; they will harass you in the land where you settle.

And as Numbers33 makes clear, it was their responsibility, under the anointing of the Holy Spirit, to drive the evil inhabitants of the land out. And it is exactly the same today, it is our responsibility to drive out the evil inhabitants, the demons, of our physical body, and if we refuse to do so, then the Lord will let them remain to torment us, just as he left the OT inhabitants to torment the Israelites.

When Paul begged the Lord 3 times that the demon would depart, the Lord refused for the simple reason that he had already commanded that man would drive them out.
The Lord told Paul that His Grace was sufficient, which means that Paul had been saved through Grace, and that Salvation raised Paul far above the demonic powers, in order to cast the demons out under the power of the HS.

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Yes indeed!
Rare to find anyone who agrees
Most use it as God denying him help

sunlover1 said:

Yes indeed!
Rare to find anyone who agrees
Most use it as God denying him help

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Thank you for that encouragement sunlover. It usually produces a barrage of rebuke from those desperate to prove that God is fickle over whether he really wants to heal people.

Francis Drake said:

The story of Paul's thorn in the flesh is very revealing, once you study the context.
2Cor12v Therefore, that I should not become conceited, a thorn in my flesh was given to me, a messenger of Satan, that he might buffet me, so that I should not become conceited. 8Three times I begged the Lord for this, that it might depart from me. 9And He said to me, “My grace suffices you, for the power is perfected in weakness.” Therefore will I boast rather most gladly in my weaknesses, so that the power of Christ may rest upon me. 10Therefore I take pleasure in weaknesses, in insults, in hardships, in persecutions, and difficulties for Christ; for when I might be weak, then I am strong.

Paul was exceedingly well taught in the scriptures, and when he spoke of his thorn in the flesh, he wasn't being original, but was in fact quoting Numbers33v55 But if you do not drive out the inhabitants of the land before you, those you allow to remain will become barbs in your eyes and thorns in your sides; they will harass you in the land where you settle.

And as Numbers33 makes clear, it was their responsibility, under the anointing of the Holy Spirit, to drive the evil inhabitants of the land out. And it is exactly the same today, it is our responsibility to drive out the evil inhabitants, the demons, of our physical body, and if we refuse to do so, then the Lord will let them remain to torment us, just as he left the OT inhabitants to torment the Israelites.

When Paul begged the Lord 3 times that the demon would depart, the Lord refused for the simple reason that he had already commanded that man would drive them out.
The Lord told Paul that His Grace was sufficient, which means that Paul had been saved through Grace, and that Salvation raised Paul far above the demonic powers, in order to cast the demons out under the power of the HS.

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I think this has more to do with Paul.

GOD knows the heart of man, and anytime He is going to use someone greatly, they will go through major, major trials and suffering. The last thing that GOD wants to do is judge one of His own that became conceited and prideful.

The flesh shall not glory.

ARBITER01 said:

I think this has more to do with Paul.

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It is entirely to do with Paul, just as Israel's bondage under the five lords of the Philistines was down to them.
Judges3v1Now these are the nations which the Lord left, that He might test Israel by them, that is, all who had not known any of the wars in Canaan.
God did not put Israel into bondage, they put themselves there by refusing to throw them out of the land.
Spiritual warfare is exactly the same. If we don't defeat them, they will enslave us. You only have to look at the church to recognise that.
Once Paul recognised the link between spiritual warfare and physical warfare, he used his God given anointing to cast his "thorn in the flesh" far from him.

GOD knows the heart of man, and anytime He is going to use someone greatly, they will go through major, major trials and suffering. The last thing that GOD wants to do is judge one of His own that became conceited and prideful.

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Trials are part of our learning and that's why church Christianity is so utterly useless. People spend their whole lives suckling at the tit of the pastor every Sunday, and fall asleep as soon as their bellies are full.
They imagine that Christianity is something conducted at church every week. They never learn to chew meat and put the word to test in the real world.
When crisis comes to their world, there is absolutely no difference between them and non believers.

The flesh shall not glory.

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Back on topic,...

spiritual oppression

There are two sources of direct spiritual oppression for a Christian: demonic or human

- Demonic oppression obviously deals with all the sorts of evil spirits, from fallen angels to demons.
- Human oppression is dealing with those people who actively oppose Christians through witchcraft.

Demonic oppression is somewhat easy to discern,...

1Ti 4:1 But the Spirit saith expressly, that in later times some shall fall away from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits and doctrines of devils,

- Original: πλάνη
- Transliteration: Plane
- Phonetic: plan'-ay
- Definition:
1. a wandering, a straying about
a. one led astray from the right way, roams hither and thither
2. metaph.
a. mental straying
1. error, wrong opinion relative to morals or religion
b. error which shows itself in action, a wrong mode of acting
c. error, that which leads into error, deceit or fraud

This is the sort of oppression any Christian could be afflicted by, from newborn to mature. Anything to drive you away from Jesus and the path He has laid out for you. It's relatively easy to get out from under though. Any good amount of prayer and fasting can normally set a person free from it.

Human oppression is virtually unknown though by Christians. Most just don't know how to identify when they are being afflicted by another person, they quickly think it is satan and his minions again.

This type of oppression normally drains you of your strength and ambition. It can cause all sorts of misleading thoughts, even wrongful feelings of love for another. It impacts the heart and tries to control the will of another. It makes a person more susceptible to sickness, to the point that they could even end up in a hospital.

Real estate is a big deal in warfare, if you own the land and industries, you can starve the enemy.

Jesus spoke of the land and that land was the hearts of the people.

This is why if you resist the enemy, they will flee, but you have to have possession of your inner real estate.

I counsel you to buy from me gold refined in the fire, so you can become rich; and white clothes to wear, so you can cover your shameful nakedness; and salve to put on your eyes, so you can see.
Revelation 3:18

Already you have all you want! Already you have become rich! You have begun to reign--and that without us! How I wish that you really had begun to reign so that we also might reign with you!
1 Corinthians 4:8