How narrow is the "narrow way"?

Bible Highlighter

Law of the Lord is perfect, converting the soul.
Supporter
Jul 22, 2014
41,433
7,859
...
✟1,187,903.00
Country
United States
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Married
"What is in vain is the new believers one thinks were made with them coming to Christ actually trusting in other things instead of Christ."



The Bible does not show that believing what God reveals is doing something themselves for their salvation, believing is in contrast to doing works for salvation. There is the broad way going to destruction, but CONTEXT is not showing all your interpretations. Jesus Christ referenced himself, who the believers would follow, when he spoke of the narrow way. Those who do not repent are workers of iniquity. The true gospel is of Jesus Christ, the Lord we are to come to for atonement and restoration to God, Jesus Christ who made it possible is the way.


"It is about coming to the real faith with repentance, and life changes with that. Those that do not change with spiritual virtues growing are ones who do not have evidence showing that they are real believers, and likely they are not."



I explained what the faith is, and the faith is not defined by feelings. Repentance is not an action any initiate, it is a needed response, many scripture passages show this. It involves turning away from sin still, which God makes possible in believers who are in Christ. This is not about people who sincerely believe, as the belief this way is sincere enough. Sincere belief otherwise is not this.

Fruit that would be showing has love, joy, peace, longsuffering, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness, and self-control, Galatians 5, these are to grow.

"The whole world only has the opportunity for any to come to God and have salvation. Texts referring to the whole world can only mean that."



What Mark 4:12, quoting scriptures, and other similar passages show are unrepentant who will not respond to God's grace revealed as people should do, Acts 17:30, those will not understand the things that believers are being led to understand. They lose the opportunity as God will give up on them. Such people are really on borrowed time here.

Narrow is the way is found in Matthew 7:14. Jesus' whole point in Matthew 7 was not having a belief alone in Jesus while one could think they can sin and still be saved or not worry about lifting a finger for the Lord or to minimize living holy for the Lord in some way. Jesus' whole point in that chapter was in doing what He said or one will perish. In Matthew 7:21, Jesus says: “Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.” The will of the Father (or God) is our sanctification. For 1 Thessalonians 4:3 says: “For this is the will of God, even your sanctification, that ye should abstain from fornication:”

Jesus says to those believers who did wonderful works in His name to depart from Him because of two things. One He never knew them, and two, they worked iniquity (sin) (Matthew 7:22-23). While it is certainly a possibility that Jesus never knew them in the fact these may have been believers who started out treating God's grace as a license for immorality, it is also possible that they did know Jesus at one point in time but Jesus no longer remembers them anymore based on Ezekiel 3:20. For Ezekiel 3:20 says, “Again, When a righteous man doth turn from his righteousness, and commit iniquity, and I lay a stumblingblock before him, he shall die: because thou hast not given him warning, he shall die in his sin, and his righteousness which he hath done shall not be remembered; but his blood will I require at thine hand.” For God associates with those who do righteousness (1 John 3:10). So if there is no righteousness to remember in a believer's life because of their turning to sin, then it will be as if He never knew them for there is no righteousness to remember.

Then there is the final one passage that I think is unmistakable. Jesus says: “And every one that heareth these sayings of mine, and doeth them not, shall be likened unto a foolish man, which built his house upon the sand: And the rain descended, and the floods came, and the winds blew, and beat upon that house; and it fell: and great was the fall of it.” (Matthew 7:26-27).

full


Lord Jesus says that the person who does not do what He says is like a fool and when a storm came great was the fall of that house. We are God's house. So our house or temple will be destroyed in the Lake of Fire if we do not do what Jesus says. For Jesus said to cast the unprofitable servant into outer darkness (Matthew 25:30).
 
Last edited:
Upvote 0

Bible Highlighter

Law of the Lord is perfect, converting the soul.
Supporter
Jul 22, 2014
41,433
7,859
...
✟1,187,903.00
Country
United States
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Married
"What is in vain is the new believers one thinks were made with them coming to Christ actually trusting in other things instead of Christ."



The Bible does not show that believing what God reveals is doing something themselves for their salvation, believing is in contrast to doing works for salvation. There is the broad way going to destruction, but CONTEXT is not showing all your interpretations. Jesus Christ referenced himself, who the believers would follow, when he spoke of the narrow way. Those who do not repent are workers of iniquity. The true gospel is of Jesus Christ, the Lord we are to come to for atonement and restoration to God, Jesus Christ who made it possible is the way.


"It is about coming to the real faith with repentance, and life changes with that. Those that do not change with spiritual virtues growing are ones who do not have evidence showing that they are real believers, and likely they are not."



I explained what the faith is, and the faith is not defined by feelings. Repentance is not an action any initiate, it is a needed response, many scripture passages show this. It involves turning away from sin still, which God makes possible in believers who are in Christ. This is not about people who sincerely believe, as the belief this way is sincere enough. Sincere belief otherwise is not this.

Fruit that would be showing has love, joy, peace, longsuffering, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness, and self-control, Galatians 5, these are to grow.

"The whole world only has the opportunity for any to come to God and have salvation. Texts referring to the whole world can only mean that."



What Mark 4:12, quoting scriptures, and other similar passages show are unrepentant who will not respond to God's grace revealed as people should do, Acts 17:30, those will not understand the things that believers are being led to understand. They lose the opportunity as God will give up on them. Such people are really on borrowed time here.

The Two Sides of the Coin of Faith:

The 1st Side of the Coin of Faith:

Faith starts off as a belief or trust in Jesus Christ as one's Savior (John 3:16). We are first saved by God's grace through faith without the deeds of the law or works ALONE (Ephesians 2:8-9). We are saved initially and foundationally by God's grace and mercy like the receiving of a gift. We believe that Christ died for our sins, He was buried, and He was risen three days later for our salvation (1 Corinthians 15:1-4). We call upon the name of the Lord seeking forgiveness with Him (Romans 10:13, Luke 18:9-14). We receive or invite Christ into our life (John 1:12, Revelation 3:20). If a believer stumbles into sin on rare occasion, they do not do a good work to redeem that sin; But they go to God's grace by confessing their sins to Jesus Christ in order to be forgiven of it (See: 1 John 1:9, 1 John 2:1, Hebrews 4:16). This is all a part of how we are saved by God's grace through faith. No man can save themselves by Works Alone without God's grace. Many people who believe in God, and yet they have not accepted Jesus as their Savior think that God will outweigh their good deeds over their bad deeds. Salvation does not work like that. For they do not realize that their bad deeds will condemn them. They need to have their past slate of sins wiped out. This is where God's grace through faith in Jesus comes in.

But faith does not end with being saved by God's grace through faith in Jesus Christ.

The journey of faith continues with:​

The 2nd Side of the Coin of Faith:

#1. Faith manifests itself with the “work of faith” mentioned by the apostle Paul in 1 Thessalonians 1:3, and 2 Thessalonians 1:11. Protestants seem to separate works from faith (Which runs contrary to the Bible). Yet, the apostle Paul mentions that there is a “work of faith.” The Bible talks about the “work of the Lord” (1 Corinthians 15:58) (1 Corinthians 16:10), and I imagine if I asked a Protestant Christian if the “work” within the “work of the Lord” is separate from “the Lord,” they most likely would say they are not separated. But when it comes to the “work of faith,” they will say that works and faith are separate things (Which in my view is not being consistent or honest with oneself).

#2. The word “faithful” is also mentioned 54 times in the New Testament King James Bible. The dictionary defines faithful as:

Faithful:

(adjective):

1. true to one's word, promises, vows, etc.
2. steady in allegiance or affection; loyal; constant: faithful friends.
3. reliable, trusted, or believed.
4. strict or thorough in the performance of duty: a faithful worker.

Source:
Definition of faithful | Dictionary.com

This definition is supported by the context in many verses in the Bible. It does not take a detective to figure out that the word “faithful” derives from the word “faith.” They are related and connected to each other. A person is loyal (or faithful) to their master based on their faith in him in what he says. For example: 2 Thessalonians 3:3 says, “But the Lord is faithful, who shall stablish you, and keep you from evil.” So the Lord is said to be faithful in this verse. How is the Lord faithful? Is it by a belief alone? No. The Lord is faithful to strengthening us (or in establishing us) to keep us from evil. The Lord does something when He is faithful. Revelation 2:10 says to a particular church, “be thou faithful unto death, and I will give thee a crown of life.” Many Protestants have tried to come up with tricky ways to not apply this verse to their own life. I believe they do not accept what this verse plainly says because it contradicts their “Faith Alone” teaching that was handed down to them from Martin Luther (the founder of Protestantism).

#3. Romans 10:17. It says,
“So then faith cometh by hearing,
and hearing by the word of God.”
(Romans 10:17).

How do we get our faith? According to Romans 10:17, we get our faith by hearing the Word of God. I believe that the “Word of God” can refer to either Jesus, and or the Bible (depending on the context) (Note: See this thread here to see the connection in Scripture between the Living Word and the Bible). Anyways, in this particular instance in Romans 10:17: I believe the “Word of God” refers to the words of Jesus (which are found in the Holy Bible). We must receive the words of Jesus because if we do not, His words will judge us on the last day (See: John 12:48). This would also include the words of His apostles, as well. For Jesus says, “He that receiveth you receiveth me, and he that receiveth me receiveth him that sent me.” (Matthew 10:40). So faith is basically everything in my New Testament because it gives us an account of the words of Jesus and His followers. We get our faith by believing and obeying what Jesus and His apostles said. Faith is everything in your New Testament, and faith is not just a belief alone in Jesus.

#4. Hebrews 11. Hebrews 11 gives us an account of what faith does. “By faith Noah, ... prepared an ark to the saving of his house;...” (Hebrews 11:7). “By faith Abraham, when he was tried, offered up Isaac:” (Hebrews 11:17). “By faith Moses, ... refused to be called the son of Pharaoh's daughter; Choosing rather to suffer affliction with the people of God, than to enjoy the pleasures of sin for a season;” (Hebrews 11:24-25). So by faith, the great men of God obeyed God and or put forth holy actions (or the “work of faith”). So in Hebrews 11, the word “faith” is used to represent something a believer does. This faith also rejects sin in one's life, for Moses suffered with the affliction of God's people rather than enjoying the pleasures of sin for a season. Noah was literally told by God directly to build the Ark. Noah needed to have faith in this “work of faith” instruction. For if Noah did not act in building the Ark, he would have perished along with everyone else.

#5. Peter failed to continue to walk on the water (Which is a work of God).
What was the reason why Peter later failed to continue to walk on the water? Jesus said, “O thou of little faith, wherefore didst thou doubt?” (Matthew 14:31). This again proves that the work of God that can operate in our life is tied to our faith. For in Ephesians 2:9 it refers to Man Directed Works ALONE Salvationism (without God's grace) because it is the kind of work that a man would boast in himself by doing it. But Ephesians 2:10 talks about an entirely different kind of work. It is the work of God done through the believer. These are the works that we are created unto Christ Jesus to do. They are the works of God done through us. For Jesus said we can do nothing without Him (John 15:5). For it is God who works in us to do of His good will and pleasure (Philippians 2:13). So any good we do, all praise, glory, thanks, and honor is given to our Lord Jesus Christ and or to the glorious Trinity (or Godhead).

#6. Paul also mentions that there is an obedience to the faith (or obedience of faith) at the beginning and end of the book of Romans (See: Romans 1:5, Romans 16:26). Romans 6 says, “Know ye not, that to whom ye yield yourselves servants to obey, his servants ye are to whom ye obey; whether of sin unto death, or of obedience unto righteousness?” (Romans 6:16). So we have to have obedience unto righteousness. For Romans 6 also says, “But now being made free from sin, and become servants to God, ye have your fruit unto holiness, and the end everlasting life.” (Romans 6:22). So our obedience unto righteousness is being servants of God and having fruit unto holiness with having the end of everlasting life. This is all a part of the “obedience to the faith.” There is no such thing as the disobedience of the faith. For Ephesians 5 says, “But fornication, and all uncleanness, or covetousness, let it not be once named among you, as becometh saints; Neither filthiness, nor foolish talking, nor jesting, which are not convenient: but rather giving of thanks. For this ye know, that no whoremonger, nor unclean person, nor covetous man, who is an idolater, hath any inheritance in the kingdom of Christ and of God. Let no man deceive you with vain words: for because of these things cometh the wrath of God upon the children of disobedience.” (Ephesians 5:3-6).​


So in conclusion:

Faith is like a coin that has two sides to it. The first side of the coin of faith is trusting or believing in God's grace and seeking forgiveness with the Lord Jesus and believing the gospel (without the deeds of the Law), and the second side (or other side) of the coin of faith is the “work of faith.” (that is a part of the Sanctification Process of the Holy Spirit that helps us to live a holy life).
 
Upvote 0

FredVB

Regular Member
Mar 11, 2010
4,507
921
America
Visit site
✟265,291.00
Country
United States
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Single
FredVB said:
"What is in vain is the new believers one thinks were made with them coming to Christ actually trusting in other things instead of Christ."

The Bible does not show that believing what God reveals is doing something themselves for their salvation, believing is in contrast to doing works for salvation. There is the broad way going to destruction, but CONTEXT is not showing all your interpretations. Jesus Christ referenced himself, who the believers would follow, when he spoke of the narrow way. Those who do not repent are workers of iniquity. The true gospel is of Jesus Christ, the Lord we are to come to for atonement and restoration to God, Jesus Christ who made it possible is the way.

"It is about coming to the real faith with repentance, and life changes with that. Those that do not change with spiritual virtues growing are ones who do not have evidence showing that they are real believers, and likely they are not."

I explained what the faith is, and the faith is not defined by feelings. Repentance is not an action any initiate, it is a needed response, many scripture passages show this. It involves turning away from sin still, which God makes possible in believers who are in Christ. This is not about people who sincerely believe, as the belief this way is sincere enough. Sincere belief otherwise is not this.

Fruit that would be showing has love, joy, peace, longsuffering, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness, and self-control, Galatians 5, these are to grow.

"The whole world only has the opportunity for any to come to God and have salvation. Texts referring to the whole world can only mean that."

What Mark 4:12, quoting scriptures, and other similar passages show are unrepentant who will not respond to God's grace revealed as people should do, Acts 17:30, those will not understand the things that believers are being led to understand. They lose the opportunity as God will give up on them. Such people are really on borrowed time here.

Bible Highlighter said:
Narrow is the way is found in Matthew 7:14. Jesus' whole point in Matthew 7 was not having a belief alone in Jesus while one could think they can sin and still be saved or not worry about lifting a finger for the Lord or to minimize living holy for the Lord in some way. Jesus' whole point in that chapter was in doing what He said or one will perish. In Matthew 7:21, Jesus says: “Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.” The will of the Father (or God) is our sanctification. For 1 Thessalonians 4:3 says: “For this is the will of God, even your sanctification, that ye should abstain from fornication:”

That is a false argument with what was said, there was nothing about thinking "they can sin and still be saved or not worry about lifting a finger for the Lord or to minimize living holy for the Lord in some way". Of course that cannot be a part of salvation. Those that continue on in sin without real repentance and not changing are not yet saved. And the way really is narrow.

Jesus says to those believers who did wonderful works in His name to depart from Him because of two things. One He never knew them, and two, they worked iniquity (sin) (Matthew 7:22-23). While it is certainly a possibility that Jesus never knew them in the fact these may have been believers who started out treating God's grace as a license for immorality, it is also possible that they did know Jesus at one point in time but Jesus no longer remembers them anymore based on Ezekiel 3:20. For Ezekiel 3:20 says, “Again, When a righteous man doth turn from his righteousness, and commit iniquity, and I lay a stumblingblock before him, he shall die: because thou hast not given him warning, he shall die in his sin, and his righteousness which he hath done shall not be remembered; but his blood will I require at thine hand.” For God associates with those who do righteousness (1 John 3:10). So if there is no righteousness to remember in a believer's life because of their turning to sin, then it will be as if He never knew them for there is no righteousness to remember.

Then there is the final one passage that I think is unmistakable. Jesus says: “And every one that heareth these sayings of mine, and doeth them not, shall be likened unto a foolish man, which built his house upon the sand: And the rain descended, and the floods came, and the winds blew, and beat upon that house; and it fell: and great was the fall of it.” (Matthew 7:26-27).

Lord Jesus says that the person who does not do what He says is like a fool and when a storm came great was the fall of that house. We are God's house. So our house or temple will be destroyed in the Lake of Fire if we do not do what Jesus says. For Jesus said to cast the unprofitable servant into outer darkness (Matthew 25:30).

Jesus is Lord. Those who really follow Jesus Christ will do what he says. Those who won't do that have not come to Christ with repentance from their sinful lives and are not following him.

He knows those who are his (understanding this from english terms is so much harder than understanding with distinct terms in other languages) with being in relationship with them, that necessarily involves communication which happens in prayer.

The Two Sides of the Coin of Faith:

The 1st Side of the Coin of Faith:

Faith starts off as a belief or trust in Jesus Christ as one's Savior (John 3:16). We are first saved by God's grace through faith without the deeds of the law or works ALONE (Ephesians 2:8-9). We are saved initially and foundationally by God's grace and mercy like the receiving of a gift. We believe that Christ died for our sins, He was buried, and He was risen three days later for our salvation (1 Corinthians 15:1-4). We call upon the name of the Lord seeking forgiveness with Him (Romans 10:13, Luke 18:9-14). We receive or invite Christ into our life (John 1:12, Revelation 3:20). If a believer stumbles into sin on rare occasion, they do not do a good work to redeem that sin; But they go to God's grace by confessing their sins to Jesus Christ in order to be forgiven of it (See: 1 John 1:9, 1 John 2:1, Hebrews 4:16). This is all a part of how we are saved by God's grace through faith. No man can save themselves by Works Alone without God's grace. Many people who believe in God, and yet they have not accepted Jesus as their Savior think that God will outweigh their good deeds over their bad deeds. Salvation does not work like that. For they do not realize that their bad deeds will condemn them. They need to have their past slate of sins wiped out. This is where God's grace through faith in Jesus comes in.

But faith does not end with being saved by God's grace through faith in Jesus Christ.

The journey of faith continues with:​

The 2nd Side of the Coin of Faith:

#1. Faith manifests itself with the “work of faith” mentioned by the apostle Paul in 1 Thessalonians 1:3, and 2 Thessalonians 1:11. Protestants seem to separate works from faith (Which runs contrary to the Bible). Yet, the apostle Paul mentions that there is a “work of faith.” The Bible talks about the “work of the Lord” (1 Corinthians 15:58) (1 Corinthians 16:10), and I imagine if I asked a Protestant Christian if the “work” within the “work of the Lord” is separate from “the Lord,” they most likely would say they are not separated. But when it comes to the “work of faith,” they will say that works and faith are separate things (Which in my view is not being consistent or honest with oneself).

#2. The word “faithful” is also mentioned 54 times in the New Testament King James Bible. The dictionary defines faithful as:

Faithful:

(adjective):

1. true to one's word, promises, vows, etc.
2. steady in allegiance or affection; loyal; constant: faithful friends.
3. reliable, trusted, or believed.
4. strict or thorough in the performance of duty: a faithful worker.

Source:
Definition of faithful | Dictionary.com

This definition is supported by the context in many verses in the Bible. It does not take a detective to figure out that the word “faithful” derives from the word “faith.” They are related and connected to each other. A person is loyal (or faithful) to their master based on their faith in him in what he says. For example: 2 Thessalonians 3:3 says, “But the Lord is faithful, who shall stablish you, and keep you from evil.” So the Lord is said to be faithful in this verse. How is the Lord faithful? Is it by a belief alone? No. The Lord is faithful to strengthening us (or in establishing us) to keep us from evil. The Lord does something when He is faithful. Revelation 2:10 says to a particular church, “be thou faithful unto death, and I will give thee a crown of life.” Many Protestants have tried to come up with tricky ways to not apply this verse to their own life. I believe they do not accept what this verse plainly says because it contradicts their “Faith Alone” teaching that was handed down to them from Martin Luther (the founder of Protestantism).

#3. Romans 10:17. It says,
“So then faith cometh by hearing,
and hearing by the word of God.”
(Romans 10:17).

How do we get our faith? According to Romans 10:17, we get our faith by hearing the Word of God. I believe that the “Word of God” can refer to either Jesus, and or the Bible (depending on the context) (Note: See this thread here to see the connection in Scripture between the Living Word and the Bible). Anyways, in this particular instance in Romans 10:17: I believe the “Word of God” refers to the words of Jesus (which are found in the Holy Bible). We must receive the words of Jesus because if we do not, His words will judge us on the last day (See: John 12:48). This would also include the words of His apostles, as well. For Jesus says, “He that receiveth you receiveth me, and he that receiveth me receiveth him that sent me.” (Matthew 10:40). So faith is basically everything in my New Testament because it gives us an account of the words of Jesus and His followers. We get our faith by believing and obeying what Jesus and His apostles said. Faith is everything in your New Testament, and faith is not just a belief alone in Jesus.

#4. Hebrews 11. Hebrews 11 gives us an account of what faith does. “By faith Noah, ... prepared an ark to the saving of his house;...” (Hebrews 11:7). “By faith Abraham, when he was tried, offered up Isaac:” (Hebrews 11:17). “By faith Moses, ... refused to be called the son of Pharaoh's daughter; Choosing rather to suffer affliction with the people of God, than to enjoy the pleasures of sin for a season;” (Hebrews 11:24-25). So by faith, the great men of God obeyed God and or put forth holy actions (or the “work of faith”). So in Hebrews 11, the word “faith” is used to represent something a believer does. This faith also rejects sin in one's life, for Moses suffered with the affliction of God's people rather than enjoying the pleasures of sin for a season. Noah was literally told by God directly to build the Ark. Noah needed to have faith in this “work of faith” instruction. For if Noah did not act in building the Ark, he would have perished along with everyone else.

#5. Peter failed to continue to walk on the water (Which is a work of God).
What was the reason why Peter later failed to continue to walk on the water? Jesus said, “O thou of little faith, wherefore didst thou doubt?” (Matthew 14:31). This again proves that the work of God that can operate in our life is tied to our faith. For in Ephesians 2:9 it refers to Man Directed Works ALONE Salvationism (without God's grace) because it is the kind of work that a man would boast in himself by doing it. But Ephesians 2:10 talks about an entirely different kind of work. It is the work of God done through the believer. These are the works that we are created unto Christ Jesus to do. They are the works of God done through us. For Jesus said we can do nothing without Him (John 15:5). For it is God who works in us to do of His good will and pleasure (Philippians 2:13). So any good we do, all praise, glory, thanks, and honor is given to our Lord Jesus Christ and or to the glorious Trinity (or Godhead).

#6. Paul also mentions that there is an obedience to the faith (or obedience of faith) at the beginning and end of the book of Romans (See: Romans 1:5, Romans 16:26). Romans 6 says, “Know ye not, that to whom ye yield yourselves servants to obey, his servants ye are to whom ye obey; whether of sin unto death, or of obedience unto righteousness?” (Romans 6:16). So we have to have obedience unto righteousness. For Romans 6 also says, “But now being made free from sin, and become servants to God, ye have your fruit unto holiness, and the end everlasting life.” (Romans 6:22). So our obedience unto righteousness is being servants of God and having fruit unto holiness with having the end of everlasting life. This is all a part of the “obedience to the faith.” There is no such thing as the disobedience of the faith. For Ephesians 5 says, “But fornication, and all uncleanness, or covetousness, let it not be once named among you, as becometh saints; Neither filthiness, nor foolish talking, nor jesting, which are not convenient: but rather giving of thanks. For this ye know, that no whoremonger, nor unclean person, nor covetous man, who is an idolater, hath any inheritance in the kingdom of Christ and of God. Let no man deceive you with vain words: for because of these things cometh the wrath of God upon the children of disobedience.” (Ephesians 5:3-6).​


So in conclusion:

Faith is like a coin that has two sides to it. The first side of the coin of faith is trusting or believing in God's grace and seeking forgiveness with the Lord Jesus and believing the gospel (without the deeds of the Law), and the second side (or other side) of the coin of faith is the “work of faith.” (that is a part of the Sanctification Process of the Holy Spirit that helps us to live a holy life).

No. There are not the two steps of salvation. Actually salvation, all of Yahweh's doing, is a process that is generally long and drawn out with the work done in believers. But it has definite beginning in believers with repentant faith coming to Christ, knowing the redeemer made it possible. God makes knowing this available to all, that would be found with seeking the truth of what is right, so that they won't just perish. Yet those who do not come to Christ with repentant faith are not saved and are still headed to perishing. Those who never change from their life of sin are not ever saved. Those who do are the ones saved in Christ.
 
Upvote 0

FutureAndAHope

Just me
Supporter
Aug 30, 2008
6,362
2,910
Australia
Visit site
✟733,159.00
Country
Australia
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
Take comfort in the fact that you can't resist from lusts, sin, or lukewarmness, and that you will commit those sins the rest of your life and that proves that you need a Savior, and that you must believe on him alone to save you. Take comfort in the fact that Jesus paid it all, all to him you owe, sin had left a crimson stain, but he washed it white as snow.

Nice thought but it is not true. The bible says:

2Pe 1:3-5 We have everything we need to live a life that pleases God. It was all given to us by God's own power, when we learned that he had invited us to share in his wonderful goodness. God made great and marvelous promises, so that his nature would become part of us. Then we could escape our evil desires and the corrupt influences of this world. Do your best to improve your faith. You can do this by adding goodness, understanding

The Holy Spirit has been given to us to empower us to leave behind our sins. Sure we may have some weakness, but to say we can't resist lust, sin, and lukewarmness, to me is taking things too far, it is allowing things that should not be.

Jesus said we will have weakness, but it can be overcome by living in His Spirit:

Mat 26:41 Watch and pray, that ye enter not into temptation: the spirit indeed is willing, but the flesh is weak.
 
Upvote 0

Bible Highlighter

Law of the Lord is perfect, converting the soul.
Supporter
Jul 22, 2014
41,433
7,859
...
✟1,187,903.00
Country
United States
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Married
That is a false argument with what was said, there was nothing about thinking "they can sin and still be saved or not worry about lifting a finger for the Lord or to minimize living holy for the Lord in some way". Of course that cannot be a part of salvation. Those that continue on in sin without real repentance and not changing are not yet saved. And the way really is narrow.



Jesus is Lord. Those who really follow Jesus Christ will do what he says. Those who won't do that have not come to Christ with repentance from their sinful lives and are not following him.

He knows those who are his (understanding this from english terms is so much harder than understanding with distinct terms in other languages) with being in relationship with them, that necessarily involves communication which happens in prayer.



No. There are not the two steps of salvation. Actually salvation, all of Yahweh's doing, is a process that is generally long and drawn out with the work done in believers. But it has definite beginning in believers with repentant faith coming to Christ, knowing the redeemer made it possible. God makes knowing this available to all, that would be found with seeking the truth of what is right, so that they won't just perish. Yet those who do not come to Christ with repentant faith are not saved and are still headed to perishing. Those who never change from their life of sin are not ever saved. Those who do are the ones saved in Christ.

Well, I did not see your reply from before until now. So I apologize for my late reply.
Anyways, I disagree with your thinking that there are not two aspects of salvation that we need to be concerned about.

We first need to be saved by...

#1. God's Grace Through Faith in Jesus Christ as the Savior
(Initial Salvation, and or Foundational Salvation).
(The 1st synergistic work of GOD done in a believer).
Being saved by God's grace through faith in Jesus as ones Savior is the entrance gate to salvation, and it is the foundation of our salvation (by faith) upon which we stand. Being saved by God's grace is believing the gospel (Which is the power of God unto salvation to everyone who believes it - Romans 1:16). According to 1 Corinthians 15:1-4: The gospel is you believing that Jesus Christ died for your sins, He was buried, and He had risen again three days later for your salvation (Note: Do not let anyone sell you on another gospel besides this one). Depending on a person’s access or exposure to the Word: Being saved by God's grace will also generally include receiving Jesus as your Savior (John 1:12), and calling upon the name of the Lord (i.e. confessing with your mouth the words: “Lord Jesus” or similar equivalent - Romans 10:9) as a part of seeking forgiveness of your sins with Him by way of prayer (Romans 10:13) (Luke 15:18-21) (Luke 18:9-14). This process of salvation is without the deeds of the Law or works because it is based upon God’s mercy and grace and His redemptive work. As a result: One is born again spiritually (Note: Born again by the Spirit, and born again by water (i.e. the Scriptures - Romans 10:17, 1 Peter 1:23)). A person is foundationally or ultimately saved by God’s grace because if they happen to sin on rare occasion in their Christian walk, they do not do a good work to absolve that sin, but they confess of their sins to Jesus in order to be forgiven of that sin (1 John 1:9) (1 John 2:1) (Hebrews 4:16) (For verses on being saved by God's grace, see: Ephesians 2:8-9, Romans 4:1-6, Titus 3:4-7, 1 Corinthians 15:1-4, Luke 18:9-14, Romans 5:1-2).

A believer then enters the...

#2. Sanctification of the Spirit to Live a Holy Life
(The Next Step or Phase in the Salvation Process).
(The 2nd synergistic work of God done in a believer).
Sanctification of the Spirit to Live a Holy Life is the next step or phase in Salvation for a believer who lives out their faith; This is the work of God moving in a believer's life so as to help them to live holy, and to do good works and to put away the lusts of the flesh. These good works are the works of God done through the believer, and so all boasting or praise is given to the Lord. Therefore, there is no boasting in one's own work because they are ultimately the works of God done through the believer. A believer today who obeys the Lord looks to the commands of Jesus and His followers within the New Testament primarily. For believers today are not under the 613 Laws of Moses as a whole package deal (even though certain laws have carried over into the New Testament). Basically all ceremonial laws and judicial laws in the Old Testament no longer apply. For example: Believers do not have to keep the Saturday Sabbath, circumcision, dietary laws, animal sacrifices, holy days, etc.; However, believers must keep God's Moral Laws like: Do not murder, do not steal, do not covet, do not lie, do commit adultery, etc.; Two of the greatest commands that we should focus on daily is to love God and love our neighbor which is more fully described in Mark 12:29-31. We need to worship or adore the Lord our God, preach the gospel, help the poor, love the brethren, love our enemies, and live holy lives, etc. (For Sanctification verses, see: James 2:24, James 2:17-18, Titus 1:16, Hebrews 5:9, 2 Thessalonians 2:13, Hebrews 12:14, Romans 8:1 (KJV), 1 Corinthians 16:22, Romans 8:13, etc.).​

One cannot put the cart before the horse. One cannot try to save themselves first by works or by works alone, and neither can one just trust in God's grace and refuse to live a holy life. 2 Thessalonians 2:13 says, “...God hath from the beginning chosen you to salvation through sanctification of the Spirit and belief of the truth:”; So I see that God has chosen us to salvation through two things according to this verse and not just one. In fact, we see the truth of this verse also expressed in John 5:29, and James 2:24, as well.
 
Upvote 0

Bible Highlighter

Law of the Lord is perfect, converting the soul.
Supporter
Jul 22, 2014
41,433
7,859
...
✟1,187,903.00
Country
United States
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Married
That is a false argument with what was said, there was nothing about thinking "they can sin and still be saved or not worry about lifting a finger for the Lord or to minimize living holy for the Lord in some way". Of course that cannot be a part of salvation. Those that continue on in sin without real repentance and not changing are not yet saved. And the way really is narrow.



Jesus is Lord. Those who really follow Jesus Christ will do what he says. Those who won't do that have not come to Christ with repentance from their sinful lives and are not following him.

He knows those who are his (understanding this from english terms is so much harder than understanding with distinct terms in other languages) with being in relationship with them, that necessarily involves communication which happens in prayer.



No. There are not the two steps of salvation. Actually salvation, all of Yahweh's doing, is a process that is generally long and drawn out with the work done in believers. But it has definite beginning in believers with repentant faith coming to Christ, knowing the redeemer made it possible. God makes knowing this available to all, that would be found with seeking the truth of what is right, so that they won't just perish. Yet those who do not come to Christ with repentant faith are not saved and are still headed to perishing. Those who never change from their life of sin are not ever saved. Those who do are the ones saved in Christ.

By what you have stated in this post: You have given me the impression that salvation is all the Lord Jesus' doing (in the fact that we have no say so in the matter). While salvation is synergistic and we cannot save ourselves without God, salvation is not enforced upon us without our say so (if that is what you are implying). We must decide if we want to be saved or not. For Peter said to the crowd at Pentecost, “Save yourselves from this untoward generation.” (Acts of the Apostles 2:40). If you believe in a form of Calvinism (of which I hope is not the case), it teaches that God elects (chooses) some to salvation and He allows the others by default to be unsaved (When He could have forced saved them). This Election is not based on anything a person does. God is just being gracious to save a few (According to Calvinism). This teaching in Calvinism is called “Unconditional Election,” and I believe it maligns the good character of our God because God desires that none should perish but that all should come to repentance (2 Peter 3:9). 2 Thessalonians 2:10 says that the reason why those who perish are perishing is because they received not the love of the truth that they MIGHT be saved. Luke 13:3, we learn that Jesus basically tells folks to “repent or perish.” But in Calvinism: The Elect cannot perish,and the Non-Elect cannot repent, and so the words of Jesus in Luke 13:3 don't make a whole lot of sense.
 
Upvote 0

BornAgain2007

Member
Dec 28, 2020
21
10
44
Robbinsville
✟16,301.00
Country
United States
Faith
Baptist
Marital Status
Single
I believe I am a born again Christian. I came to a point in my life where The Holy Spirit moved upon me, I recognized it, I acknowledged it, I was convicted of my sin BY the Holy Spirit, I was sorry, I desired to get to know this being - this person - this Holy Spirit, He accepted me, and I was born again. I went to bed that night full of fire and having a heart for God I never thought would come into my life in my dizziest daydreams. I felt so cool the next day at school because I personally had met the one true GOD almighty! I wondered who else around me possibly had this rebirth, and I had a yearning for everyone I knew to come to this same knowledge, to experience God personally in that way which would change their lives forever.

Regardless of my own testimony, how many Christians are actually going to find the narrow way? I wonder myself, "Am I walking along the path that Jesus himself calls the 'narrow way that leads into eternal life'?"

What about lukewarmness? Jesus said, I would rather you be hot or cold, for if you are lukewarm, I will spit you out of my mouth.

What about intentional sin? If I step on your toe and then apologize, and you say it's okay, but then I do it again, and you forgive me again, and I continue to do it because I know I can get away with it, what of the "narrow way" then?

1 Corinthians 6

(NLT) 9Don’t you realize that those who do wrong will not inherit the Kingdom of God? Don’t fool yourselves. Those who indulge in sexual sin, or who worship idols, or commit adultery, or are male prostitutes, or practice homosexuality, 10or are thieves, or greedy people, or drunkards, or are abusive, or cheat people—none of these will inherit the Kingdom of God. 11Some of you were once like that. But you were cleansed; you were made holy; you were made right with God by calling on the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and by the Spirit of our God.

What about born again Christians who continue to walk in some of these ways? Obviously the actions listed above are not in accordance to the "narrow way". I will be honest. I am guilty of at least one of these wrong doings. I know I ought to repent of it, maybe I struggle with it and maybe I have not yet been corrected of it. But when I do it, I know I am committing a wrong doing that is not in line with the "narrow way" which has led me to start this thread to seek out how all of this comes together.

1 Corinthians 3 Paul writes...

(NLT) 10Because of God’s grace to me, I have laid the foundation like an expert builder. Now others are building on it. But whoever is building on this foundation must be very careful. 11For no one can lay any foundation other than the one we already have—Jesus Christ.

12Anyone who builds on that foundation may use a variety of materials—gold, silver, jewels, wood, hay, or straw. 13But on the judgment day, fire will reveal what kind of work each builder has done. The fire will show if a person’s work has any value. 14If the work survives, that builder will receive a reward. 15But if the work is burned up, the builder will suffer great loss. The builder will be saved, but like someone barely escaping through a wall of flames.

16Don’t you realize that all of you together are the temple of God and that the Spirit of God lives in you? 17God will destroy anyone who destroys this temple. For God’s temple is holy, and you are that temple.

You are correct it takes Holy Ghost Conviction to get saved.
In verse 15 above, it says we will saved, but we will be like someone escaping through the flames. Could this be the consequence to our sin even after we have been born again? Is the "narrow way" simply BEING born again? Or is the narrow way being born again AND building with a "material" that survives the fire so that we are rewarded, like in verses 13 and 14 above?
 
Upvote 0

FredVB

Regular Member
Mar 11, 2010
4,507
921
America
Visit site
✟265,291.00
Country
United States
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Single
Bible Highlighter said:
I disagree with your thinking that there are not two aspects of salvation that we need to be concerned about.

We first need to be saved by...

#1. God's Grace Through Faith in Jesus Christ as the Savior
(Initial Salvation, and or Foundational Salvation).
(The 1st synergistic work of GOD done in a believer).
Being saved by God's grace through faith in Jesus as ones Savior is the entrance gate to salvation, and it is the foundation of our salvation (by faith) upon which we stand. Being saved by God's grace is believing the gospel (Which is the power of God unto salvation to everyone who believes it - Romans 1:16). According to 1 Corinthians 15:1-4: The gospel is you believing that Jesus Christ died for your sins, He was buried, and He had risen again three days later for your salvation (Note: Do not let anyone sell you on another gospel besides this one). Depending on a person’s access or exposure to the Word: Being saved by God's grace will also generally include receiving Jesus as your Savior (John 1:12), and calling upon the name of the Lord (i.e. confessing with your mouth the words: “Lord Jesus” or similar equivalent - Romans 10:9) as a part of seeking forgiveness of your sins with Him by way of prayer (Romans 10:13) (Luke 15:18-21) (Luke 18:9-14). This process of salvation is without the deeds of the Law or works because it is based upon God’s mercy and grace and His redemptive work. As a result: One is born again spiritually (Note: Born again by the Spirit, and born again by water (i.e. the Scriptures - Romans 10:17, 1 Peter 1:23)). A person is foundationally or ultimately saved by God’s grace because if they happen to sin on rare occasion in their Christian walk, they do not do a good work to absolve that sin, but they confess of their sins to Jesus in order to be forgiven of that sin (1 John 1:9) (1 John 2:1) (Hebrews 4:16) (For verses on being saved by God's grace, see: Ephesians 2:8-9, Romans 4:1-6, Titus 3:4-7, 1 Corinthians 15:1-4, Luke 18:9-14, Romans 5:1-2).

A believer then enters the...

#2. Sanctification of the Spirit to Live a Holy Life
(The Next Step or Phase in the Salvation Process).
(The 2nd synergistic work of God done in a believer).
Sanctification of the Spirit to Live a Holy Life is the next step or phase in Salvation for a believer who lives out their faith; This is the work of God moving in a believer's life so as to help them to live holy, and to do good works and to put away the lusts of the flesh. These good works are the works of God done through the believer, and so all boasting or praise is given to the Lord. Therefore, there is no boasting in one's own work because they are ultimately the works of God done through the believer. A believer today who obeys the Lord looks to the commands of Jesus and His followers within the New Testament primarily. For believers today are not under the 613 Laws of Moses as a whole package deal (even though certain laws have carried over into the New Testament). Basically all ceremonial laws and judicial laws in the Old Testament no longer apply. For example: Believers do not have to keep the Saturday Sabbath, circumcision, dietary laws, animal sacrifices, holy days, etc.; However, believers must keep God's Moral Laws like: Do not murder, do not steal, do not covet, do not lie, do commit adultery, etc.; Two of the greatest commands that we should focus on daily is to love God and love our neighbor which is more fully described in Mark 12:29-31. We need to worship or adore the Lord our God, preach the gospel, help the poor, love the brethren, love our enemies, and live holy lives, etc. (For Sanctification verses, see: James 2:24, James 2:17-18, Titus 1:16, Hebrews 5:9, 2 Thessalonians 2:13, Hebrews 12:14, Romans 8:1 (KJV), 1 Corinthians 16:22, Romans 8:13, etc.).​

One cannot put the cart before the horse. One cannot try to save themselves first by works or by works alone, and neither can one just trust in God's grace and refuse to live a holy life. 2 Thessalonians 2:13 says, “...God hath from the beginning chosen you to salvation through sanctification of the Spirit and belief of the truth:”; So I see that God has chosen us to salvation through two things according to this verse and not just one. In fact, we see the truth of this verse also expressed in John 5:29, and James 2:24, as well.

We who are really believers are saved by God's grace through Christ. Sanctification, which does happen in those who are really believers, is not saving them. They are saved for growing to be more godly, among other things. Salvation is with coming to Christ, with faith, that is with repentance from life with sin without Christ. There is not a second step but changes continue through our life here. Even last moment salvation, like that of the thief on the cross beside Jesus Christ, is real salvation without a needed second step.

By what you have stated in this post: You have given me the impression that salvation is all the Lord Jesus' doing (in the fact that we have no say so in the matter). While salvation is synergistic and we cannot save ourselves without God, salvation is not enforced upon us without our say so (if that is what you are implying). We must decide if we want to be saved or not. For Peter said to the crowd at Pentecost, “Save yourselves from this untoward generation.” (Acts of the Apostles 2:40). If you believe in a form of Calvinism (of which I hope is not the case), it teaches that God elects (chooses) some to salvation and He allows the others by default to be unsaved (When He could have forced saved them). This Election is not based on anything a person does. God is just being gracious to save a few (According to Calvinism). This teaching in Calvinism is called “Unconditional Election,” and I believe it maligns the good character of our God because God desires that none should perish but that all should come to repentance (2 Peter 3:9). 2 Thessalonians 2:10 says that the reason why those who perish are perishing is because they received not the love of the truth that they MIGHT be saved. Luke 13:3, we learn that Jesus basically tells folks to “repent or perish.” But in Calvinism: The Elect cannot perish,and the Non-Elect cannot repent, and so the words of Jesus in Luke 13:3 don't make a whole lot of sense.

Of course, salvation that is all God's work through Christ and with God's Spirit, involves our response with faith, with repentance, and we are not saved without any response. I don't argue any support to exclusively Calvinist positions.
 
Upvote 0

Bible Highlighter

Law of the Lord is perfect, converting the soul.
Supporter
Jul 22, 2014
41,433
7,859
...
✟1,187,903.00
Country
United States
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Married
We who are really believers are saved by God's grace through Christ. Sanctification, which does happen in those who are really believers, is not saving them.

While we are initially saved by God’s grace (seeking forgiveness with Jesus Christ - Romans 10:13), and believing the gospel (1 Corinthians 15:1-4 - which is to believe that Christ died for our sins, He was buried, and He was risen three days later), there is also the call of the gospel, too. 2 Thessalonians 2:13-14 says that the call of the gospel is… God has chosen us to salvation through sanctification of the Spirit and a belief of the truth. Most believers are clueless about this passage and if they are confronted with it, they simply do not believe what it says plainly.

You said:
They are saved for growing to be more godly, among other things. Salvation is with coming to Christ, with faith, that is with repentance from life with sin without Christ. There is not a second step but changes continue through our life here. Even last moment salvation, like that of the thief on the cross beside Jesus Christ, is real salvation without a needed second step.

So then what do you make of these verses?

  1. “Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only.” (James 2:24).

  2. “Even so faith, if it hath not works, is dead, being alone.” (James 2:17).

  3. 10 “For there are many unruly and vain talkers and deceivers, specially they of the circumcision: 16 They profess that they know God; but in works they deny him, being abominable, and disobedient, and unto every good work reprobate.” (Titus 1:10, and Titus 1:16).

  4. “And, behold, a certain lawyer stood up, and tempted him, saying, Master, what shall I do to inherit eternal life? He said unto him, What is written in the law? how readest thou? And he answering said, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy strength, and with all thy mind; and thy neighbour as thyself. And he said unto him, Thou hast answered right: this do, and thou shalt live.” (Luke 10:25-28).

  5. “And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.” (John 5:29).

  6. “For if God spared not the natural branches, take heed lest he also spare not thee. Behold therefore the goodness and severity of God: on them which fell, severity; but toward thee, goodness, if thou continue in his goodness: otherwise thou also shalt be cut off.” (Romans 11:21-22).

  7. “Then shall the King say unto them on his right hand, Come, ye blessed of my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world: For I was an hungred, and ye gave me meat: I was thirsty, and ye gave me drink: I was a stranger, and ye took me in: Naked, and ye clothed me: I was sick, and ye visited me: I was in prison, and ye came unto me. Then shall the righteous answer him, saying, Lord, when saw we thee an hungred, and fed thee ? or thirsty, and gave thee drink? When saw we thee a stranger, and took thee in? or naked, and clothed thee ? Or when saw we thee sick, or in prison, and came unto thee? And the King shall answer and say unto them, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye have done it unto one of the least of these my brethren, ye have done it unto me. Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels: For I was an hungred, and ye gave me no meat: I was thirsty, and ye gave me no drink: I was a stranger, and ye took me not in: naked, and ye clothed me not: sick, and in prison, and ye visited me not. Then shall they also answer him, saying, Lord, when saw we thee an hungred, or athirst, or a stranger, or naked, or sick, or in prison, and did not minister unto thee? Then shall he answer them, saying, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye did it not to one of the least of these, ye did it not to me. And these shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal.” (Matthew 25:34-46).

  8. “In this the children of God are manifest, and the children of the devil: whosoever doeth not righteousness is not of God, neither he that loveth not his brother.” (1 John 3:10).

  9. “Therefore whosoever heareth these sayings of mine, and doeth them, I will liken him unto a wise man, which built his house upon a rock: And the rain descended, and the floods came, and the winds blew, and beat upon that house; and it fell not: for it was founded upon a rock. And every one that heareth these sayings of mine, and doeth them not, shall be likened unto a foolish man, which built his house upon the sand: And the rain descended, and the floods came, and the winds blew, and beat upon that house; and it fell: and great was the fall of it.” (Matthew 7:24-27).

  10. “I am the vine, ye are the branches: He that abideth in me, and I in him, the same bringeth forth much fruit: for without me ye can do nothing. If a man abide not in me, he is cast forth as a branch, and is withered; and men gather them, and cast them into the fire, and they are burned.” (John 15:5-6).

  11. “And if the righteous scarcely be saved, where shall the ungodly and the sinner appear? Wherefore let them that suffer according to the will of God commit the keeping of their souls to him in well doing, as unto a faithful Creator.” (1 Peter 4:18-19).

  12. “Follow peace with all men, and holiness, without which no man shall see the Lord:” (Hebrews 12:14).

  13. “And now also the axe is laid unto the root of the trees: therefore every tree which bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire.” (Matthew 3:10).

  14. “He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.” (1 John 2:4).

  15. “If any man teach otherwise, and consent not to wholesome words, even the words of our Lord Jesus Christ, and to the doctrine which is according to godliness; He is proud, knowing nothing,…” (1 Timothy 6:3-4).
 
Upvote 0

Bible Highlighter

Law of the Lord is perfect, converting the soul.
Supporter
Jul 22, 2014
41,433
7,859
...
✟1,187,903.00
Country
United States
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Married
Of course, salvation that is all God's work through Christ and with God's Spirit, involves our response with faith, with repentance, and we are not saved without any response. I don't argue any support to exclusively Calvinist positions.

I am glad you accept that we need to have faith to be saved. But most do not understand that there are two sides of faith in the Bible.

The Two Sides of the Coin of Faith:

The 1st Side of the Coin of Faith:

Faith starts off as a belief or trust in Jesus Christ as one's Savior (John 3:16). We are first saved by God's grace through faith without the deeds of the law or works ALONE (Ephesians 2:8-9). We are saved initially and foundationally by God's grace and mercy like the receiving of a gift. We believe that Christ died for our sins, He was buried, and He was risen three days later for our salvation (1 Corinthians 15:1-4). We call upon the name of the Lord seeking forgiveness with Him (Romans 10:13, Luke 18:9-14). We receive or invite Christ into our life (John 1:12, Revelation 3:20). If a believer stumbles into sin on rare occasion, they do not do a good work to redeem that sin; But they go to God's grace by confessing their sins to Jesus Christ in order to be forgiven of it (See: 1 John 1:9, 1 John 2:1, Hebrews 4:16). This is all a part of how we are saved by God's grace through faith. No man can save themselves by Works Alone without God's grace. Many people who believe in God, and yet they have not accepted Jesus as their Savior think that God will outweigh their good deeds over their bad deeds. Salvation does not work like that. For they do not realize that their bad deeds will condemn them. They need to have their past slate of sins wiped out. This is where God's grace through faith in Jesus comes in.

But faith does not end with being saved by God's grace through faith in Jesus Christ.

The journey of faith continues with...​

The 2nd Side of the Coin of Faith:

#1. Faith manifests itself with the “work of faith” mentioned by the apostle Paul in 1 Thessalonians 1:3, and 2 Thessalonians 1:11. Protestants seem to separate works from faith in a way that goes beyond how James describes them. Yet, the apostle Paul mentions that there is a “work of faith.” The Bible talks about the “work of the Lord” (1 Corinthians 15:58) (1 Corinthians 16:10), and I imagine if I asked a Protestant Christian if the “work” within the “work of the Lord” is separate from “the Lord,” they most likely would say they are not separated. But when it comes to the “work of faith,” they will say that works and faith are separate things (Which in my view is not being consistent or honest with oneself).

#2. The word “faithful” is also mentioned 54 times in the New Testament King James Bible. The dictionary defines faithful as:

Faithful:
(adjective):

1. true to one's word, promises, vows, etc.
2. steady in allegiance or affection; loyal; constant: faithful friends.
3. reliable, trusted, or believed.
4. strict or thorough in the performance of duty: a faithful worker.
Source:

Definition of faithful | Dictionary.com

This definition is supported by the context in many verses in the Bible. It does not take a detective to figure out that the word “faithful” derives from the word “faith.” They are related and connected to each other. A person is loyal (or faithful) to their master based on their faith in him in what he says. For example: 2 Thessalonians 3:3 says, “But the Lord is faithful, who shall stablish you, and keep you from evil.” So the Lord is said to be faithful in this verse. How is the Lord faithful? Is it by a belief alone? No. The Lord is faithful to strengthening us (or in establishing us) to keep us from evil. The Lord does something when He is faithful. Revelation 2:10 says to a particular church, “be thou faithful unto death, and I will give thee a crown of life.” Many Protestants have tried to come up with tricky ways to not apply this verse to their own life. I believe they do not accept what this verse plainly says because it contradicts their “Faith Alone” teaching that was handed down to them from Martin Luther (the founder of Protestantism).

#3. Romans 10:17. It says,

“So then faith cometh by hearing,
and hearing by the word of God.”
(Romans 10:17).
How do we get our faith? According to Romans 10:17, we get our faith by hearing the Word of God. I believe that the “Word of God” can refer to either Jesus, and or the Bible (depending on the context) (Note: See this thread here to see the connection in Scripture between the Living Word and the Bible). Anyways, in this particular instance in Romans 10:17: I believe the “Word of God” refers to the words of Jesus (which are found in the Holy Bible). We must receive the words of Jesus because if we do not, His words will judge us on the last day (See: John 12:48). This would also include the words of His apostles, as well. For Jesus says, “He that receiveth you receiveth me, and he that receiveth me receiveth him that sent me.” (Matthew 10:40). So faith is basically everything in my New Testament because it gives us an account of the words of Jesus and His followers. We get our faith by believing and obeying what Jesus and His apostles said. Faith is everything in your New Testament, and faith is not just a belief alone in Jesus.

#4. Hebrews 11.
Hebrews 11 gives us an account of what faith does. “By faith Noah, ... prepared an ark to the saving of his house;...” (Hebrews 11:7). “By faith Abraham, when he was tried, offered up Isaac:” (Hebrews 11:17). “By faith Moses, ... refused to be called the son of Pharaoh's daughter; Choosing rather to suffer affliction with the people of God, than to enjoy the pleasures of sin for a season;” (Hebrews 11:24-25). So by faith, the great men of God obeyed God and or put forth holy actions (or the “work of faith”). So in Hebrews 11, the word “faith” is used to represent something a believer does. This faith also rejects sin in one's life, for Moses suffered with the affliction of God's people rather than enjoying the pleasures of sin for a season.

#5. Peter failed to continue to walk on the water (Which is a work of God).
What was the reason why Peter later failed to continue to walk on the water? Jesus said, “O thou of little faith, wherefore didst thou doubt?” (Matthew 14:31). This again proves that the work of God that can operate in our life is tied to our faith. For in Ephesians 2:9 it refers to Man Directed Works ALONE Salvationism (without God's grace) because it is the kind of work that a man would boast in himself by doing it. But Ephesians 2:10 talks about an entirely different kind of work. It is the work of God done through the believer. These are the works that we are created unto Christ Jesus to do. They are the works of God done through us. For Jesus said we can do nothing without Him (John 15:5). For it is God who works in us to do of His good will and pleasure (Philippians 2:13). So any good we do, all praise, glory, thanks, and honor is given to our Lord Jesus Christ and or to the glorious Trinity (or Godhead).

#6. Paul also mentions that there is an “obedience to the faith" (or obedience of faith) at the beginning and end of the book of Romans (See: Romans 1:5, Romans 16:26). Romans 6 says,

“Know ye not, that to whom ye yield yourselves servants to obey, his servants ye are to whom ye obey; whether of sin unto death, or of obedience unto righteousness?” (Romans 6:16).
So we have to have obedience unto righteousness. For Romans 6 also says, “But now being made free from sin, and become servants to God, ye have your fruit unto holiness, and the end everlasting life.” (Romans 6:22). So our obedience unto righteousness is being servants of God and having fruit unto holiness with having the end of everlasting life. This is all a part of the obedience to the faith. There is no such thing as the disobedience of the faith. For Ephesians 5 says, “But fornication, and all uncleanness, or covetousness, let it not be once named among you, as becometh saints; Neither filthiness, nor foolish talking, nor jesting, which are not convenient: but rather giving of thanks. For this ye know, that no whoremonger, nor unclean person, nor covetous man, who is an idolater, hath any inheritance in the kingdom of Christ and of God. Let no man deceive you with vain words: for because of these things cometh the wrath of God upon the children of disobedience.” (Ephesians 5:3-6).

#7. John 3:36 (The Greek word “apeitheō” used in John 3:36 for the English words: “believeth not” (KJB) is translated as “obey not” or “disobedient” in other English bible verses. For example: 1 Peter 3:1, and 1 Peter 3:20 translates apeitheō as “obey not” or “disobedient” and it is used context to being disobedient in regards to one’s righteous conduct (Whereas John 3:36 is translated as believeth not” in the King James Bible). Some translations render the KJB’s John 3:36 “believeth not" as “obey not” in other Translations (NLT, ESV, BLB, NASB, ASV, EXB, GNT). In other words, sometimes the words “believeth not” is synonymous with “obey not” (depending on the context). In fact, you can check this Greek word for yourself and it's usage here at BlueLetterBible.

#8. Works makes a person’s faith perfect (James 2:22).

This connects in with 2 Timothy 3:16-17. Doctrine and instruction in righteousness is profitable so that the man of God may be perfect unto all good works. Anyways, the point here is that your faith is perfected by works. Thus, this shows us that there is a symbiotic relationship between faith and works that cannot be separated.

#9. 2 Corinthians 5:7 says: “We walk by faith.” So faith is not something whereby you do nothing but believe. We are to walk by faith. Walking is an action.

#10. Examine whether you be in the faith - 2 Corinthians 13:5. How do we do this? Well, this is by proving Christ is in you. How can we show that we know the Lord? By keeping His commandments (1 John 2:3). However, the person who says they know the Lord and they do not keep His commands is a liar and the truth is not in them (1 John 2:4). So keeping His commands is tied to knowing the Lord, and knowing the Lord is in us is a part of our examination of whether we are in the faith or not (2 Corinthians 13:5).

#11. Galatians 5:6 says, “faith which worketh by love.”
Paul says in context within Galatians:

“For, brethren, ye have been called unto liberty; only use not liberty for an occasion to the flesh, but by love serve one another. For all the law is fulfilled in one word, even in this; Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.” (Galatians 5:13-14).
So faith works by love. It works in love by loving one another. Faith is not just a belief alone.

#12. Philippians 2:17 talks about “the service of your faith.” Service is a form of work. So our faith will have service or work attached. So there is no faith that is alone or remains as a belief alone. True faith will have it's service.

#13. 2 Thessalonians 3:2 says, “And that we may be delivered from unreasonable and wicked men: for all men have not faith.” This is suggesting that faith is not a belief alone whereby we can live wickedly. For it says that we may be delivered from wicked men for (because) all men have not faith. So the opposite of wickedness is holiness. So this verse is implying indirectly that our good and moral conduct is tied to the faith.

#14. 1 Timothy 5:8 says, “But if any provide not for his own, and specially for those of his own house, he hath denied the faith, and is worse than an infidel.” An infidel is an unbeliever. If faith is exclusively a belief alone then how can a person deny the faith by their misconduct?

#15. 1 Timothy 6:12 says, “Fight the good fight of faith, lay hold on eternal life,” We have to FIGHT the good fight of faith in order to lay hold on eternal life. So faith is something we have to fight for and it is not a belief alone.

#16. 2 Timothy 3:1-9 describes those who have a form of godliness but deny the power thereof. They are lovers of pleasure more than lovers of God. These types are said to be reprobate concerning the faith (See: 2 Timothy 3:8). So faith is not a belief alone in Jesus whereby one’s conduct is not in line with true godliness.

#17. James 2:1 says, “My brethren, have not the faith of our Lord Jesus Christ, the Lord of glory, with respect of persons.” This means faith is not a belief alone in Jesus, but it also includes one’s actions in not neglecting to love the poor brethren while one shows favor to the rich brethren.

#18. Jude says:

“Beloved, when I gave all diligence to write unto you of the common salvation, it was needful for me to write unto you, and exhort you that ye should earnestly contend for the faith which was once delivered unto the saints. For there are certain men crept in unawares, who were before of old ordained to this condemnation, ungodly men, turning the grace of our God into lasciviousness, and denying the only Lord God, and our Lord Jesus Christ.” (Jude 1:3-4).
Verse 3 says that we are to contend for the faith and verse 4 says there are certain ungodly men who turn the grace of our God into lasciviousness. Meaning, they are teaching that a person can sin and still be saved by God’s grace. But we are told to contend for the faith.

#19. Revelation 13:10 says,

“Anyone who is destined for prison will be taken to prison.
Anyone destined to die by the sword will die by the sword.
This means that God’s holy people must endure
persecution patiently and remain faithful.”
(Revelation 13:10) (NLT).

“He that leadeth into captivity shall go into captivity:
he that killeth with the sword must be killed with the sword.
Here is the patience and the faith of the saints.”
(Revelation 13:10 (KJB).
In other words, this is saying that believers can sometimes go to prison and or be killed as a part of the faith (or in being faithful, i.e. the faith).

#20. Faith without works is dead (James 2:17). Can a dead faith save anyone?

#21. We are justified by works and not by faith alone (James 2:24). The same word “justified" is used for both faith and works. Most Christians will not argue against how we are justified by faith in regards to salvation. But this same word “justified" is used in reference for works, too.

#22. James says he will show you his faith by his works (James 2:18).
For James says,

“Yea, a man may say, Thou hast faith,
and I have works: shew me thy faith without thy works,
and I will shew thee my faith by my works.”
(James 2:18).
James appears to criticize the person who has faith without works by saying show me your faith without works, and I will show my faith by my works. This means faith and works are tied together because works is how one shows their faith.

So in conclusion:

Faith is like a coin that has two sides to it. The first side of the coin of faith is trusting or believing in God's grace and seeking forgiveness with the Lord Jesus and believing the gospel, and the second side (or other side) of the coin of faith is the “work of faith.” (that is a part of the Sanctification Process of the Holy Spirit that helps us to live a holy life).

“Follow peace with all men, and holiness, without which no man shall see the Lord:" (Hebrews 12:14).

“And being made perfect, he became the author of eternal salvation unto all them that obey him;" (Hebrews 5:9).

“For if ye live after the flesh, ye shall die: but if ye through the Spirit do mortify the deeds of the body, ye shall live.” (Romans 8:13).

“They profess that they know God; but in works they deny him, being abominable, and disobedient, and unto every good work reprobate.” (Titus 1:16).
 
Upvote 0
This site stays free and accessible to all because of donations from people like you.
Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
- Dan Doughty and Team Christian Forums

FredVB

Regular Member
Mar 11, 2010
4,507
921
America
Visit site
✟265,291.00
Country
United States
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Single
Bible Highlighter said:
While we are initially saved by God’s grace (seeking forgiveness with Jesus Christ - Romans 10:13), and believing the gospel (1 Corinthians 15:1-4 - which is to believe that Christ died for our sins, He was buried, and He was risen three days later), there is also the call of the gospel, too. 2 Thessalonians 2:13-14 says that the call of the gospel is… God has chosen us to salvation through sanctification of the Spirit and a belief of the truth. Most believers are clueless about this passage and if they are confronted with it, they simply do not believe what it says plainly.

So then what do you make of these verses?

Of course sanctification is necessary. It comes with salvation, it is not what saves someone. The verses show a faith that is with works. Faith without any works is dead faith (not the essential faith of salvation), the works themselves not saving one, but being a part of the salvation with the faith, that which is essential faith of salvation. Even the thief on the cross right by Jesus repented and with faith in the Lord was saved right then, before he died, without opportunity for doing more, but Jesus knew he had the essential faith. But we are here longer. I see the fruit of the Spirit is what really is involved in sanctification and works of the believers. I see where I have grown in that where many won't, yet, and I don't yet know about you, while I would hope to.

I am glad you accept that we need to have faith to be saved. But most do not understand that there are two sides of faith in the Bible.

The Two Sides of the Coin of Faith

What you are calling two sides is in reality the faith, that is it. There isn't a second thing to come to, to be saved. God works in us and salvation is of God, our response of repentance with coming to Jesus Christ with faith is that step. It will be with works showing it, if we still continue in this world. That won't be all, there is growth still to happen, for coming to godliness. But salvation is already accomplished because it is God's doing. If any among those seen as believers do nothing that shows their changed life, such likely never came to this faith with which there is salvation in Christ. But it is available to all.
 
Upvote 0

Bible Highlighter

Law of the Lord is perfect, converting the soul.
Supporter
Jul 22, 2014
41,433
7,859
...
✟1,187,903.00
Country
United States
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Married
Of course sanctification is necessary. It comes with salvation, it is not what saves someone. The verses show a faith that is with works. Faith without any works is dead faith (not the essential faith of salvation), the works themselves not saving one, but being a part of the salvation with the faith, that which is essential faith of salvation. Even the thief on the cross right by Jesus repented and with faith in the Lord was saved right then, before he died, without opportunity for doing more, but Jesus knew he had the essential faith. But we are here longer. I see the fruit of the Spirit is what really is involved in sanctification and works of the believers. I see where I have grown in that where many won't, yet, and I don't yet know about you, while I would hope to.

Jesus said to whom much is given, much is required (Luke 12:48). So the thief on the cross does not have the same responsibility as say you or me who is living out their faith.

Also, again, you are not addressing what 2 Thessalonians 2:13-14 says. It says very plainly here that the call of the gospel is… God has chosen you to salvation through sanctification of the Spirit and a belief of the truth.

“…God hath from the beginning chosen you to salvation through sanctification of the Spirit and belief of the truth: Whereunto he called you by our gospel,…” (2 Thessalonians 2:13-14).

You either believe this passage or you don’t believe it. Most Christians today reject this passage over teachings they were taught by their church or from popular candy coated Christianity.

You said:
What you are calling two sides is in reality the faith, that is it. There isn't a second thing to come to, to be saved. God works in us and salvation is of God, our response of repentance with coming to Jesus Christ with faith is that step. It will be with works showing it, if we still continue in this world. That won't be all, there is growth still to happen, for coming to godliness. But salvation is already accomplished because it is God's doing. If any among those seen as believers do nothing that shows their changed life, such likely never came to this faith with which there is salvation in Christ. But it is available to all.

Things are not automatic because of a one time decision we made with Jesus Christ.

We are told:

“...We are made partakers of Christ, if we hold the beginning of our confidence stedfast unto the end.” (Hebrews 3:13-14).

"Keep yourselves in the love of God, looking for the mercy of our Lord Jesus Christ unto eternal life." (Jude 1:21).

"...be thou faithful unto death, and I will give thee a crown of life." (Revelation 2:10).​


We are told to:

  1. Continue in the grace of God (Acts of the Apostles 13:43).

  2. Continue in the faith (Acts of the Apostles 14:22) (Colossians 1:23).

  3. Continue in his goodness, otherwise we can be cut off (just like the Jews were cut off) (Romans 11:21-22).

We need to work out our salvation with fear and trembling (Philippians 2:12). But you think salvation was all accomplished in the past or by a mere belief alone. But even the demons believe and tremble (James 2:19). Faith without works is dead (James 2:17). This means that no works means one’s faith is dead and if they do not have faith, then they cannot access the saving grace of God because we are saved by God’s grace through faith (Ephesians 2:8). What many in popular Christianity get tripped up on is Ephesians 2:9. But Paul is referring to Man Directed Works ALONE Salvation (that did not include God’s grace), and he was not referring to works in the Sanctification Process after we are saved by God’s grace. Paul’s as fighting against Circumcision Salvationism (Galatians 5:2) (Galatians 2:3) which was a heresy addressed also at the Jerusalem council (See: Acts of the Apostles 15:1, Acts of the Apostles 15:5, and Acts of the Apostles 15:24).
 
Upvote 0

Bible Highlighter

Law of the Lord is perfect, converting the soul.
Supporter
Jul 22, 2014
41,433
7,859
...
✟1,187,903.00
Country
United States
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Married
Of course sanctification is necessary. It comes with salvation, it is not what saves someone. The verses show a faith that is with works. Faith without any works is dead faith (not the essential faith of salvation), the works themselves not saving one, but being a part of the salvation with the faith, that which is essential faith of salvation. Even the thief on the cross right by Jesus repented and with faith in the Lord was saved right then, before he died, without opportunity for doing more, but Jesus knew he had the essential faith. But we are here longer. I see the fruit of the Spirit is what really is involved in sanctification and works of the believers. I see where I have grown in that where many won't, yet, and I don't yet know about you, while I would hope to.



What you are calling two sides is in reality the faith, that is it. There isn't a second thing to come to, to be saved. God works in us and salvation is of God, our response of repentance with coming to Jesus Christ with faith is that step. It will be with works showing it, if we still continue in this world. That won't be all, there is growth still to happen, for coming to godliness. But salvation is already accomplished because it is God's doing. If any among those seen as believers do nothing that shows their changed life, such likely never came to this faith with which there is salvation in Christ. But it is available to all.

Also, you did not address any of the points I made with Scripture on how faith includes more than a belief alone. I made a pretty good case with Scripture. Faith comes by hearing the Word of God. Meaning, faith comes by obeying the Word of God. Hebrews 5:9 says Jesus is the author of eternal salvation to all those who OBEY Him. So it’s not a belief alone that saves alone. That is not what the Bible teaches remotely. Yes, we are initially saved by God’s grace through faith without the deeds of the Law, but after we are saved by God’s grace, we have to continue in God’s plan of salvation in the Sanctification Process. For do you believe a Christian (Who lives out their faith) and can not enter the Sanctification Process and yet still be saved? Can a Christian willfully commit grievous sin and still be saved?
 
Upvote 0

prophecy_uk

Well-Known Member
May 3, 2004
1,216
131
✟11,107.00
Faith
Christian
Here is irony for you guys, while answering how the narrow path is not found.

Firstly, the scribes, lawyers, priests, pastors, and prophets, all the teachers/counselors of Israel, found them death, so a new path should and would be sought, and provided, would this seem right enough ?

Yes, that is known in all the world, and is the new covenant/ new testament.

Now, God finding His sheep Himself, calling them by name, without them ever being taught as the previous was mentioned, by the thieves and robber/ false teachers, ) Israel is that old testament/ first covenant of false prophets that leads to destruction, and was the same old wide path that leads to destruction)

Now, the new way, cuts out those who can direct anyone all on the wide wrong way together, by not hearing them..

Hebrews 8:9 Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day when I took them by the hand to lead them out of the land of Egypt; because they continued not in my covenant, and I regarded them not, saith the Lord.
10 For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, saith the Lord; I will put my laws into their mind, and write them in their hearts: and I will be to them a God, and they shall be to me a people:
11 And they shall not teach every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the Lord: for all shall know me, from the least to the greatest.

John 10:7 Then said Jesus unto them again, Verily, verily, I say unto you, I am the door of the sheep.
8 All that ever came before me are thieves and robbers: but the sheep did not hear them.



Another thing I know everybody knows, is that the Apostle Paul is teaching us in the Epistles from God.

Now notice with me, that Paul did not receive this, or be taught this, from man.

Now, see also, we be taught the same, hear Him and be taught by Him ( by Jesus too) and not receiving it of man/taught by man..


Galatians 1:12 For I neither received it of man, neither was I taught it, but by the revelation of Jesus Christ.

Ephesians 4:21 If so be that ye have heard him, and have been taught by him, as the truth is in Jesus:



This then would be as it was with Apostle Paul, to abide in Christ and His words abiding in us, we knowing only Him, know when anything is done unto us, as we see nobody else, hear/rely on nobody else.

Also, then comes the match again, the seducers are cut off, and the annointing is not given by any man to us, it comes only by God, we receive it of Him, no man can teach us that, as it is received from God, and is why no man can receive Him ( nor can we receive God from, through, or by any man)


The annointing of the Holy Spirit in us, is what teaches us all hings, so man can teach us what, nothing.

We know Him when He dwells in us, and that is who the Shepherd calls by name..



John 15:7 If ye abide in me, and my words abide in you, ye shall ask what ye will, and it shall be done unto you.

1 John 2:26 These things have I written unto you concerning them that seduce you.
27 But the anointing which ye have received of him abideth in you, and ye need not that any man teach you: but as the same anointing teacheth you of all things, and is truth, and is no lie, and even as it hath taught you, ye shall abide in him.

John 3:32 And what he hath seen and heard, that he testifieth; and no man receiveth his testimony.
33 He that hath received his testimony hath set to his seal that God is true.

John 14:17 Even the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him: but ye know him; for he dwelleth with you, and shall be in you.

1 Corinthians 2:14 But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.

John 10:3 To him the porter openeth; and the sheep hear his voice: and he calleth his own sheep by name, and leadeth them out.




Now, I know the deceivers will leap frog over the testimony, they always have done, but they will find it goes wider, and never ending, well before they do run out of things to say, even though they love to speak vanity, or would stop the chat that the false prophets did, but are finished even though they talked on.


That being said, the narrow path is not in their words, it is the only love that the internet is designed to give, virtual and not real, so they will not stop talking in their version of love, until they and the internet/world are gone.


Meanwhile, in the new Heavens and the new earth, God tells us for eternity ( this is then the narrow path as it continues and the wide one is gone) of His grace of kindness towards us through Christ, which as told in 1 John 3, is the love of Christ, not in any of their words they give daily, and endlessly, tear after year, but Christ ended when He began to preach the Kingdom of Heaven, by loving in deed and truth, and that requires more than words of deceivers, but requires what they do not have, love to lay their lives down, but why would they, when they love their life of talking..



Ephesians 2:7 That in the ages to come he might shew the exceeding riches of his grace in his kindness toward us through Christ Jesus.

1 John 3:16 Hereby perceive we the love of God, because he laid down his life for us: and we ought to lay down our lives for the brethren.

17 But whoso hath this world's good, and seeth his brother have need, and shutteth up his bowels of compassion from him, how dwelleth the love of God in him?
18 My little children, let us not love in word, neither in tongue; but in deed and in truth.
19 And hereby we know that we are of the truth, and shall assure our hearts before him.

John 12:23 And Jesus answered them, saying, The hour is come, that the Son of man should be glorified.
24 Verily, verily, I say unto you, Except a corn of wheat fall into the ground and die, it abideth alone: but if it die, it bringeth forth much fruit.
25 He that loveth his life shall lose it; and he that hateth his life in this world shall keep it unto life eternal.
 
Upvote 0

FredVB

Regular Member
Mar 11, 2010
4,507
921
America
Visit site
✟265,291.00
Country
United States
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Single
Bible Highlighter said:
Jesus said to whom much is given, much is required (Luke 12:48). So the thief on the cross does not have the same responsibility as say you or me who is living out their faith.

Also, again, you are not addressing what 2 Thessalonians 2:13-14 says. It says very plainly here that the call of the gospel is… God has chosen you to salvation through sanctification of the Spirit and a belief of the truth.

“…God hath from the beginning chosen you to salvation through sanctification of the Spirit and belief of the truth: Whereunto he called you by our gospel,…” (2 Thessalonians 2:13-14).

You either believe this passage or you don’t believe it. Most Christians today reject this passage over teachings they were taught by their church or from popular candy coated Christianity.

Things are not automatic because of a one time decision we made with Jesus Christ.

We are told:

“...We are made partakers of Christ, if we hold the beginning of our confidence stedfast unto the end.” (Hebrews 3:13-14).

"Keep yourselves in the love of God, looking for the mercy of our Lord Jesus Christ unto eternal life." (Jude 1:21).

"...be thou faithful unto death, and I will give thee a crown of life." (Revelation 2:10).​


We are told to:

  1. Continue in the grace of God (Acts of the Apostles 13:43).

  2. Continue in the faith (Acts of the Apostles 14:22) (Colossians 1:23).

  3. Continue in his goodness, otherwise we can be cut off (just like the Jews were cut off) (Romans 11:21-22).
We need to work out our salvation with fear and trembling (Philippians 2:12). But you think salvation was all accomplished in the past or by a mere belief alone. But even the demons believe and tremble (James 2:19). Faith without works is dead (James 2:17). This means that no works means one’s faith is dead and if they do not have faith, then they cannot access the saving grace of God because we are saved by God’s grace through faith (Ephesians 2:8). What many in popular Christianity get tripped up on is Ephesians 2:9. But Paul is referring to Man Directed Works ALONE Salvation (that did not include God’s grace), and he was not referring to works in the Sanctification Process after we are saved by God’s grace. Paul’s as fighting against Circumcision Salvationism (Galatians 5:2) (Galatians 2:3) which was a heresy addressed also at the Jerusalem council (See: Acts of the Apostles 15:1, Acts of the Apostles 15:5, and Acts of the Apostles 15:24).

Of course I believe that passage. I don't knowingly reject Bible passages. We who are real believers, who are in Christ, are chosen, and predestined, to be conformed to the image of Christ.

And, certainly works of faith are evidence of that faith with salvation. The works are corresponding to what comes from love and all the fruits of the Spirit of God.

It was a false allegation to claim I believe salvation is of belief alone, and it is a strawman argument from that on.

Bible Highlighter said:
Also, you did not address any of the points I made with Scripture on how faith includes more than a belief alone. I made a pretty good case with Scripture. Faith comes by hearing the Word of God. Meaning, faith comes by obeying the Word of God. Hebrews 5:9 says Jesus is the author of eternal salvation to all those who OBEY Him. So it’s not a belief alone that saves alone. That is not what the Bible teaches remotely. Yes, we are initially saved by God’s grace through faith without the deeds of the Law, but after we are saved by God’s grace, we have to continue in God’s plan of salvation in the Sanctification Process. For do you believe a Christian (Who lives out their faith) and can not enter the Sanctification Process and yet still be saved? Can a Christian willfully commit grievous sin and still be saved?

Faith is certainly more than belief alone. Who said it was only belief? You do not notice I refer always to repentance, and change? Sins should not just continue on without change.
 
Upvote 0
This site stays free and accessible to all because of donations from people like you.
Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
- Dan Doughty and Team Christian Forums

Bible Highlighter

Law of the Lord is perfect, converting the soul.
Supporter
Jul 22, 2014
41,433
7,859
...
✟1,187,903.00
Country
United States
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Married
Of course I believe that passage. I don't knowingly reject Bible passages. We who are real believers, who are in Christ, are chosen, and predestined, to be conformed to the image of Christ.

And, certainly works of faith are evidence of that faith with salvation. The works are corresponding to what comes from love and all the fruits of the Spirit of God.

It was a false allegation to claim I believe salvation is of belief alone, and it is a strawman argument from that on.

My apologies if I asserted something you may not actually believe.
However, you said to me, I quote:

Of course sanctification is necessary. It comes with salvation, it is not what saves someone.”. Quote by: ~ FredVB.​

So you are saying that Sanctification does not save anyone.

The gospel is 1 Corinthians 15:1-4. It is believing that Jesus died for our sins, He was buried, and He was risen three days later (for our salvation). That's the gospel. It's nothing more than that.

A person first needs to be saved by God's grace through faith. For without His grace, we would all be doomed. Our past slate of sin needs to be wiped out. This can only be done by seeking forgiveness with Jesus and by believing that Jesus died for our sins, He was buried, and He was risen three days later on our behalf for salvation (1 Corinthians 15:1-4).

However, after we are saved by God's grace (Which will include the gospel), we need to move on into the Sanctification Process (which is the next step in God's plan of salvation) (i.e. to live holy by God's power). How so? Well, again: 2 Thessalonians 2:13-14 says that God has chosen us to salvation by the Sanctification of the Spirit, and a belief of the truth (faith), which is a call of the gospel. In other words, the gospel calls us. Imagine an old phone ringing on your table that says, “the gospel.”

full


You pick up the phone...

full


and you hear a voice on the end of the other line says, “God has chosen us to salvation through Sanctification of the Spirit and a belief in the truth.”

Here again is the verse:

“...God hath from the beginning chosen you to salvation through
sanctification of the Spirit

and belief of the truth:
Whereunto he called you by our gospel,...” (2 Thessalonians 2:13-14).
This verse says plainly that God has chosen us to salvation through Sanctification of the Spirit.
So salvation continues with the Sanctification of the Spirit (living holy by God’s power), and a belief of the truth (Continuing to believe God’s Word, i.e. the Holy Bible).

The question is: Will people pick up the phone and heed the call of the gospel?
The gospel is 1 Corinthians 15:1-4, but it calls us to do things like continuing in God's plan of salvation through the “sanctification of the Spirit” (living holy by God's power), and a belief of the truth (i.e. continuing to believe in His Word). Sadly, most will not heed this call of the gospel in 2 Thessalonians 2:13-14. So Matthew 13:41-42 is what will then happen.
 
Upvote 0

Bible Highlighter

Law of the Lord is perfect, converting the soul.
Supporter
Jul 22, 2014
41,433
7,859
...
✟1,187,903.00
Country
United States
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Married
Of course I believe that passage. I don't knowingly reject Bible passages. We who are real believers, who are in Christ, are chosen, and predestined, to be conformed to the image of Christ.

And, certainly works of faith are evidence of that faith with salvation. The works are corresponding to what comes from love and all the fruits of the Spirit of God.

It was a false allegation to claim I believe salvation is of belief alone, and it is a strawman argument from that on.

Faith is certainly more than belief alone. Who said it was only belief? You do not notice I refer always to repentance, and change? Sins should not just continue on without change.

Romans 8:13 also teaches Sanctification is a part of our salvation.

“For if ye live after the flesh, ye shall die: but if ye through the Spirit do mortify the deeds of the body, ye shall live.” (Romans 8:13).


Important Note:

Again, this is after we are first initially saved by God’s grace of course.
 
Upvote 0

Bible Highlighter

Law of the Lord is perfect, converting the soul.
Supporter
Jul 22, 2014
41,433
7,859
...
✟1,187,903.00
Country
United States
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Married
Hebrews 12:14 says:
“Follow peace with all men, and holiness, without which no man shall see the Lord:”

Holiness or living holy and following peace with all men is a part of seeing the Lord (i.e. salvation). Living holy is only by God’s power which is via by the Sanctification of the Spirit.
 
Upvote 0
This site stays free and accessible to all because of donations from people like you.
Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
- Dan Doughty and Team Christian Forums

Bible Highlighter

Law of the Lord is perfect, converting the soul.
Supporter
Jul 22, 2014
41,433
7,859
...
✟1,187,903.00
Country
United States
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Married
Here are two more Sanctification for salvation verses.

“And being made perfect, he became the author of eternal salvation unto all them that obey him;” (Hebrews 5:9).

“But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin.” (1 John 1:7).
 
Upvote 0