Depth of sin

chad kincham · Apr 29, 2021

jameshjr said:
Hello Micaiah-Imla, thanks for the message.

It is my understanding that Jesus died for all of our sins: past present and future. Though your quotes are good, however am believing more firmly that we are all sinning or at least falling short of Gods standards almost all the time, therefore if that is true, i do not think that God would condemn us for sinning after accepting Jesus as our Lord and saviour. I found this article made form an interview with John Piper that was on this subject:

Does the Bible Say True Christians Never Sin?

Jesus died for all sins, but sins are only forgiven through faith and repentance - we must choose to repent of our sins as part of our conversion so that our sins are forgiven (Acts 3:19 - Acts 20:21) - but we can’t pre-repent of future sins - thus scripture is clear that only OLD sins and PAST sins are forgiven at salvation - not future sins:

2Pe 1:9 But he that lacketh these things is blind, and cannot see afar off, and hath forgotten that he was PURGED from his OLD SINS.

Rom 3:25 Whom God hath set forth to bea propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of SINS THAT ARE PAST through the forbearance of God;

So hyper-grace doctrine which claims all sins: past, present, and future sins, are forgiven at salvation, is wrong.

Future sins must be repented of as we commit them, to be forgiven.

That’s why the apostle wrote:

1Jn 1:9 If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us oursins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.

The apostle included himself, indicating he’s talking to believers, and not to the unconverted, as further shown by the fact he had just written THIS, before verse 9:

1Jn 1:6 If we say that we have fellowship with him, and walk in darkness, we lie, and do not the truth:

1Jn 1:7 But IF we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin.

The blood of Jesus continuing to cleanse us from all sin, is conditional on continuing to walk in the light, as He is in the light, per the above.

Paul makes clear that after we have been saved, there is a continuing conflict between our wanting to walk in the flesh, (that wants us to live in sin)- and our desire to walk after the Holy Spirit that now dwells in us - and Paul warns that choosing to live in sins (works of the flesh), will keep us out of heaven:

Gal 5:16 ThisI say then, Walk in the Spirit, and ye shall not fulfil the lust of the flesh.

Gal 5:17 For the flesh lusteth against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh: and these are contrary the one to the other: so that ye cannot do the things that ye would.

Gal 5:18 But IF ye be led of the Spirit, ye are not under the law.

Gal 5:19 Now the WORKS OF THE FLESH are manifest, which are these;Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness,

Gal 5:20 Idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies,

Gal 5:21 Envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like: of the which I tell YOU again, as I have also told youin time past, that they which DO such things shall NOT inherit the kingdom of God.

Paul warns us over and over, that if we believers choose to walk after the flesh, we will die spiritually - but if we choose to walk after the spirit, we will have everlasting life:

Scripture clearly shows that continuing to remain in Christ is conditional on us 1) continuing to walk in the light, as He is in the light, and 2) continuing to walk after the spirit, instead of after the flesh.

In the two verses below, I include the conditional part of these scriptures that are always left out by hyper-grace, OSAS teachers.

1Jn 1:7 But IF we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin.

The word IF makes it a conditional statement.

The blood of Jesus cleansing the believer is conditional on their choosing to continue to walk in the light, as He is in the light.

Next:

Rom 8:1 There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk NOT AFTER THE FLESH, , but after the Spirit.

Having no condemnation, and remaining in Christ, is conditional upon continuing to walk after the Spirit, and not after the flesh

Jaxxi · Apr 29, 2021

jameshjr said:
Hello all,

i was hoping to get some opinions from more experienced Christians on something that i have been thinking a lot about recently: that being, the depth of our sins.

Every moment we could be doing more; we could always love a neighbor more than we do; we're never going to be as good as we ought to be.etc. etc.

So if that is true, then we are always falling short of Jesus's teachings and therefore we are always sinning.

If that's the case, then how do we not feel guilty all the time?

I know that Jesus died for our sins and paid the punishment for them, but to continue (unavoidably) sinning makes me feel shame and guilt anyways.

Is it possible to get to a stage where we accept that we are always sinning and be 'comfortable' with it, as Jesus died for us because we are sinners; and that all we can do is repent continually and thank God for the salvation He has given to continual sinners?

I guess i was hoping to be corrected, where i am wrong; or to have people whom have been caught on this and gotten past it.

thanks all.

The Holy Ghost works on us all once baptized and we must live in a state of daily repentance, but try not to sin as much as possible. Sinning could even be defined as doing anything that does not glorify God. We must be careful of how we spend our free time because God has told us 13 times in the Bible how jealous He is. To be caught doing something else when we could be spending time with Him is scary to think about. People will say " God can't expect this, or God understands that we have to live..."
Really? Who are we to say what God doesn't expect or understands? We have no way of really knowing, but we need to be careful.

St_Worm2 · Apr 29, 2021

Micaiah-Imla said:
There is no other basis for forgiveness of future sins after conversion.

Hello Micaiah-Imla, I'm sorry for taking so long to get back to you.

As for what you said in your last post, WOW, I'm sure that news was a BIG surprise to someone like the Apostle John, who believed/taught that true believers need to continually confess/repent from our ongoing sins. Of course, he made it clear that sinning is something that we need to avoid as believers, but that we can also be assured that when we do sin (which is something that we typically do less and less of as God continues to perfect/sanctify us on this side of the grave .. e.g. Philippians 1:6), that all is not lost, because we have an Advocate who speaks on our behalf before His Father.

Here's what the Apostle has to say about all of this. Please take special note of the fact that the Apostle included, not only believers of every level of maturity in the church in his admonishment (of their need to confess their ongoing sins), but he includes himself in the mix as well :preach:

1 John 1
8 If we say that we have no sin, we are deceiving ourselves and the truth is not in us.
9 If we confess our sins, He is faithful and righteous to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.
10 If we say that we have not sinned, we make Him a liar and His word is not in us.

1 John 2
1 My little children, I am writing these things to you so that you may not sin. But if anyone does sin, we have an Advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous;
2 and He Himself is the propitiation for our sins; and not for ours only, but also for those of the whole world.
3 By this we know that we have come to know Him, if we keep His commandments.
4 The one who says, “I have come to know Him,” and does not keep His commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him;
5 but whoever keeps His word, in him the love of God has truly been perfected. By this we know that we are in Him:
6 the one who says he abides in Him ought himself to walk in the same manner as He walked.
7 Beloved, I am not writing a new commandment to you, but an old commandment which you have had from the beginning; the old commandment is the word which you have heard.
8 On the other hand, I am writing a new commandment to you, which is true in Him and in you, because the darkness is passing away and the true Light is already shining.
9 The one who says he is in the Light and yet hates his brother is in the darkness until now.
10 The one who loves his brother abides in the Light and there is no cause for stumbling in him.
11 But the one who hates his brother is in the darkness and walks in the darkness, and does not know where he is going because the darkness has blinded his eyes.
12 I am writing to you, little children, because your sins have been forgiven you for His name’s sake.
13 I am writing to you, fathers, because you know Him who has been from the beginning. I am writing to you, young men, because you have overcome the evil one. I have written to you, children, because you know the Father.
14 I have written to you, fathers, because you know Him who has been from the beginning. I have written to you, young men, because you are strong, and the word of God abides in you, and you have overcome the evil one.

Of course, along with the Apostle John, I'm sure that the Apostles Peter and Paul (well, and every other true believer who has passed on from this world, quite frankly) were surprised to find out that there was no forgiveness available to them for the sins that they committed after coming to saving faith. This must be why I keep hearing the faint sound of the word, "bummer", coming from the nether regions of the Earth

Now I know that it must be coming from the God's elect/the saints, who believed that they would be spending eternity with God when they died (because they had been redeemed by Him, and had received eternal life from Him, ~on the basis His UN-merited favor alone~, or so they thought, not on the basis of what they did and/or failed to do personally).

--David
p.s. - unlike us, our first parents were not fallen, nor did they have a fallen nature to influence their decision making like we do, but they both chose to sin anyway. That we will still choose to sin and still need to make ongoing confession for/repentance from our sins, even as believers, is made clear for us in Bible .. e.g. 1 John 1:8-9.

The Good News is, we are made both innocent/holy and righteous 1. by the perfectly righteous life that the Lord Jesus lived on our behalf before His Father (the righteous life that we needed to live before Him but could not), and 2. by His blood & His death on the Cross in our stead.

Therefore, the Lord Jesus is our ~only~ innocence, our ~only~ righteousness, and the ~only~ atonement and satisfaction for ~ALL~ of our sins (past, present and future) and His Father's wrath. IOW, we are saved by grace, and that from first to last (or grace cannot what saves us .. Romans 11:6), not by our obedience (which is the result or fruit of our salvation, NOT its cause, even in part .. e.g. Ephesians 2:8-10; Titus 3:5).

Spurgeon - my hope lives, sinner for whom Christ died.jpg

"He made Him who knew no sin to be sin on our behalf,
so that we might become the righteousness of God in Him"
2 Corinthians 5:21

Psalm 27 · Apr 30, 2021

St_Worm2 said:
Hello Micaiah-Imla, I'm sorry for taking so long to get back to you.

As for what you said in your last post, WOW, I'm sure that news was a BIG surprise to someone like the Apostle John, who believed/taught that true believers need to continually confess/repent from our ongoing sins. Of course, he made it clear that sinning is something that we need to avoid as believers, but that we can also be assured that when we do sin (which is something that we typically do less and less of as God continues to perfect/sanctify us on this side of the grave .. e.g. Philippians 1:6), that all is not lost, because we have an Advocate who speaks on our behalf before His Father.

Here's what the Apostle has to say about all of this. Please take special note of the fact that the Apostle included, not only believers of every level of maturity in the church in his admonishment (of their need to confess their ongoing sins), but himself in the mix as well

1 John 1
8 If we say that we have no sin, we are deceiving ourselves and the truth is not in us.
9 If we confess our sins, He is faithful and righteous to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.
10 If we say that we have not sinned, we make Him a liar and His word is not in us.

1 John 2
1 My little children, I am writing these things to you so that you may not sin. But if anyone does sin, we have an Advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous;
2 and He Himself is the propitiation for our sins; and not for ours only, but also for those of the whole world.
3 By this we know that we have come to know Him, if we keep His commandments.
4 The one who says, “I have come to know Him,” and does not keep His commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him;
5 but whoever keeps His word, in him the love of God has truly been perfected. By this we know that we are in Him:
6 the one who says he abides in Him ought himself to walk in the same manner as He walked.
7 Beloved, I am not writing a new commandment to you, but an old commandment which you have had from the beginning; the old commandment is the word which you have heard.
8 On the other hand, I am writing a new commandment to you, which is true in Him and in you, because the darkness is passing away and the true Light is already shining.
9 The one who says he is in the Light and yet hates his brother is in the darkness until now.
10 The one who loves his brother abides in the Light and there is no cause for stumbling in him.
11 But the one who hates his brother is in the darkness and walks in the darkness, and does not know where he is going because the darkness has blinded his eyes.
12 I am writing to you, little children, because your sins have been forgiven you for His name’s sake.
13 I am writing to you, fathers, because you know Him who has been from the beginning. I am writing to you, young men, because you have overcome the evil one. I have written to you, children, because you know the Father.
14 I have written to you, fathers, because you know Him who has been from the beginning. I have written to you, young men, because you are strong, and the word of God abides in you, and you have overcome the evil one.

Of course, along with the Apostle John, I'm sure that the Apostles Peter and Paul (well, and every other true believer who has passed on from this world, quite frankly) were surprised to find out that there was no forgiveness available to them for the sins that they committed after coming to saving faith. This must be why I keep hearing the faint sound of the word, "bummer", coming from the nether regions of the Earth Now I know that it must be coming from the God's elect/the saints, who believed that they would be spending eternity with God when they died (because they had been redeemed by Him, and had received eternal life from Him, ~on the basis His UN-merited favor alone~, or so they thought, not on the basis of what they did and/or failed to do personally).

--David
p.s. - unlike us, our first parents were not fallen, nor did they have a fallen nature to influence their decision making like we do, but they both chose to sin anyway. That we will still choose to sin and still need to make ongoing confession for/repentance from our sins, even as believers, is made clear for us in Bible .. e.g. 1 John 1:8-9.

The Good News is, we are made both innocent/holy and righteous 1. by the perfectly righteous life that the Lord Jesus lived on our behalf before His Father (the righteous life that we needed to live before Him but could not), and 2. by His blood & His death on the Cross in our stead.

Therefore, the Lord Jesus is our ~only~ innocence, our ~only~ righteousness, and the ~only~ atonement and satisfaction for ~ALL~ of our sins (past, present and future) and His Father's wrath. IOW, we are saved by grace, and that from first to last (or grace cannot what saves us .. Romans 11:6), not by our obedience (which is the result or fruit of our salvation, NOT its cause, even in part .. e.g. Ephesians 2:8-10; Titus 3:5).

View attachment 298300

"He made Him who knew no sin to be sin on our behalf,
so that we might become the righteousness of God in Him"
2 Corinthians 5:21

1 John 3 ?

Psalm 27 · Apr 30, 2021

The depth of my sin...
1 Cor 6
9 Do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived. Neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor homosexuals, nor sodomites,
10 nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners will inherit the kingdom of God.
11 And such were some of you. But you were washed, but you were sanctified, but you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus and by the Spirit of our God.

“Go and sin no more” (from now on)

Micaiah-Imla · Apr 30, 2021

St_Worm2 said:
Of course, along with the Apostle John, I'm sure that the Apostles Peter and Paul (well, and every other true believer who has passed on from this world, quite frankly) were surprised to find out that there was no forgiveness available to them for the sins that they committed after coming to saving faith.

Man is able to cease from sinning. Otherwise we are dealing with a God that is unkind and cruel for severely punishing a nation for doing the evil that they were incapable from abstaining from. No, they were capable of ceasing from their evil doing, but they ignored God (no different than today’s Once Saved Always Saved oppressors out there). The issue has always been with the OLD sins that were committed in the past. Before Christ no ones’ past sins were taken away, which is why the animal sacrifices had to be done every year:

"For the law having a shadow of good things to come, and not the very image of the things, can never with those sacrifices which they offered year by year continually make the comers thereunto perfect. For then would they not have ceased to be offered? because that the worshippers once purged should have had no more conscience of sins." (Hebrews 10:1-2)

Christ came to take away the sins of the believer so that he may be born again and sin more, because:

"Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin" (1 John 3:9)

CleanSoul · Apr 30, 2021

Micaiah-Imla said:
Christ came to take away the sins of the believer so that he may be born again and sin more

No, we do not have the blessing of Jesus to sin more. However, Jesus did give us the sacrament of confession, which can be found in John 20:20-23. Note how Jesus says in verse 21, As the Father has sent me, so I send you. Then He breathed on them, and said, (22-23) Receive the holy Spirit, whose sins you forgive are forgiven them, whose sins you retain, are retained. Didn't God send Jesus to get rid of our sins? Jesus gave this authority to the apostles, because He knew He was going to soon ascend to heaven, and because of ordination, we today have this sacrament.

If we fall into mortal sin, we have the sacrament of confession, given to us by Jesus.

tturt · May 1, 2021

Then we continue to sin and then repent - not that we lose our salvation otherwise.

Five churches were told to repent:
Rev 2:
-To the Ephesus church "Remember therefore from whence thou art fallen, and repent, and do the first works; or else I will come unto thee quickly, and will remove thy candlestick out of his place, except thou repent."
-To the church in Pergamos "Repent; or else I will come unto thee quickly, and will fight against them with the sword of my mouth."
-to the Thyatira's church "And I gave her space to repent of her fornication; and she repented not. Behold, I will cast her into a bed, and them that commit adultery with her into great tribulation, except they repent of their deeds."
Rev 3
-church in Sardis "Remember therefore how thou hast received and heard, and hold fast, and repent..."
- church of the Laodiceans "As many as I love, I rebuke and chasten: be zealous therefore, and repent."

"My little children, these things write I unto you, that ye sin not. And if any man sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous:" I John 2:1

The question was - "...is it possible to get to a stage where we accept that we are always sinning ..."

It's moving from the cross to the tomb then resurrection. Dont think that we should accept that we sin but try to follow His teachings. It's keeping in mind that I'm going to try not to but I sin. So daily as in The Lord's Prayer, I repent and God forgives me. He always does. "If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness." I John 1:9 He expects me to confess and repent so He can be faithful and just. Then I'm thankful for Him and who He is. My emphasis is not my sin but His faithfulness and forgiveness. (I John 1:9, John 10:28, Rom 11:29, Psa 103:12).

Micaiah-Imla · May 1, 2021

@CleanSoul said

“No, we do not have the blessing of Jesus to sin more”

Yes we do, Jesus himself said:

"…Behold, thou art made whole: sin no more, lest a worse thing come unto thee." (John 5:14)

And the Apostle Paul echoes this doctrine:

"What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin, that grace may abound? God forbid. How shall we, that are dead to sin, live any longer therein?" (Romans 6:1-2)

Because:

"…if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins, But a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries." (Hebrews 10:26-27)

Mark Quayle · May 1, 2021

tturt said:
Then we continue to sin and then repent - not that we lose our salvation otherwise.

Five churches were told to repent:
Rev 2:
-To the Ephesus church "Remember therefore from whence thou art fallen, and repent, and do the first works; or else I will come unto thee quickly, and will remove thy candlestick out of his place, except thou repent."
-To the church in Pergamos "Repent; or else I will come unto thee quickly, and will fight against them with the sword of my mouth."
-to the Thyatira's church "And I gave her space to repent of her fornication; and she repented not. Behold, I will cast her into a bed, and them that commit adultery with her into great tribulation, except they repent of their deeds."
Rev 3
-church in Sardis "Remember therefore how thou hast received and heard, and hold fast, and repent..."
- church of the Laodiceans "As many as I love, I rebuke and chasten: be zealous therefore, and repent."

"My little children, these things write I unto you, that ye sin not. And if any man sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous:" I John 2:1

The question was - "...is it possible to get to a stage where we accept that we are always sinning ..."

It's moving from the cross to the tomb then resurrection. Dont think that we should accept that we sin but try to follow His teachings. It's keeping in mind that I'm going to try not to but I sin. So daily as in The Lord's Prayer, I repent and God forgives me. He always does. "If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness." I John 1:9 He expects me to confess and repent so He can be faithful and just. Then I'm thankful for Him and who He is. My emphasis is not my sin but His faithfulness and forgiveness. (I John 1:9, John 10:28, Rom 11:29, Psa 103:12).

"'Should we sin, then, so that grace may abound? Of course not!' But we do and it does."

Psalm 27 · May 1, 2021

We do sin...I sin. IF we sin, we have an advocate with The Father, Jesus Christ The Righteous.
Why would The Lord say “repent” if He didn’t want to forgive us? (Spurgeon)

Nevertheless, we must not use our liberty to indulge the flesh.
I’m Preaching to myself too.
believers must do everything in their power to lay aside every weight that so easily besets. Seek prayer, fast, study The Word, remove temptations, seek accountability, ask for help, etc.

It can be done, sin can be overcome.

There are no excuses that I, or anyone else can come up with, which will allow us to enter into the narrow way.
“it is a fearful thing to fall into the hands of The living God”.

Freedom/deliverance from sin brings a peace that passes all understanding...pressed down, shaken together...

Mark Quayle · May 1, 2021

Psalm 27 said:
We do sin...I sin. IF we sin, we have an advocate with The Father, Jesus Christ The Righteous.
Why would The Lord say “repent” if He didn’t want to forgive us? (Spurgeon)

Nevertheless, we must not use our liberty to indulge the flesh.
I’m Preaching to myself too.
believers must do everything in their power to lay aside every weight that so easily besets. Seek prayer, fast, study The Word, remove temptations, seek accountability, ask for help, etc.

It can be done, sin can be overcome.

There are no excuses that I, or anyone else can come up with, which will allow us to enter into the narrow way.
“it is a fearful thing to fall into the hands of The living God”.

Freedom/deliverance from sin brings a peace that passes all understanding...pressed down, shaken together...

You say, "It can be done, sin can be overcome."

I think Spurgeon, et al, would agree with me then, that though this is at least theoretically possible, the truth is that it IS overcome by the same thing that produces our faith --the Spirit of God. Christ has already overcome. I'm not talking cryptic there, but simply. It is not a riddle. We look on this life (as we are naturally unable to do otherwise) but, concerning the Elect, God looks on the finished work. We are to live now according to that --looking to Christ, the author and finisher of our faith. Not looking to our self-assessed victories and failures to figure out where to go from here.

CleanSoul · May 1, 2021

Micaiah-Imla said:
Christ came to take away the sins of the believer so that he may be born again and sin more,

This isn't right, although I am sure some people believe this.

Mark Quayle · May 1, 2021

CleanSoul said:
This isn't right, although I am sure some people believe this.

I'm guessing typo --"...sin [no] more."

St_Worm2 · May 2, 2021

Psalm 27 said:
1 John 3?

Hello Psalm 27, so is it your belief that the Apostle changed (or lost

) his mind between Chapters 1-2 and Chapter 3

Just kidding, of course, but we do need to figure out what he meant/what the Lord meant so that Chapter 3 can exist in perfect harmony with the previous two Chapters, not in contradiction to them.

The KJV's translation can problematic in this passage, especially for the modern reader, though I doubt that it was 410 years ago when it was written, when the same English words that we use today often had different meanings or inflections (my favorite 'for instance' is this one, "cute", in 1611, meant "bowlegged").

The Greek present tense tells us most of what we need to know about ποιέω (translated "commit" in 1 John 3:9) in this case, a fact that is taken into account by our modern translation teams, and a meaning that may well have been inherent as a common understanding of the word "commit" back when the KJV was translated. IOW, when we consider the context, which certainly includes an understanding of ποιέω by necessity, we find that this...

1 John 3
9 Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.

...actually means this,

1 John 3
9 No one born of God makes a ~practice~ of sinning, for God’s seed abides in him; and he cannot keep on sinning, because he has been born of God.

I realize this idea is harmful to the presupposition of sinless perfection at justification, but that's ok, because what God is after, and what He has promised us, is "sanctification" (His mighty and ongoing work in us, from justification to the grave, to make us more and more like His Son .. e.g. Philippians 1:6), not "perfection", which we, His obedient and beloved children, are to continually "work out" alongside of Him (as He enables us to), with "fear and trembling" .. Philippians 2:12-13.

You continue.

Psalm 27 said:
1 Cor 6
9 Do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived. Neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor homosexuals, nor sodomites,
10 nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners will inherit the kingdom of God.
11 And such were some of you. But you were washed, but you were sanctified, but you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus and by the Spirit of our God.

Yes, most of us are saved from ONGOING/UNREPENTANT sinful lives. We "were" drunkards and/or fornicators and/or homosexual and/or thieves, etc., because our life 'outside' of Christ was primarily characterized by sin. Perhaps most of all, we didn't care, because typically, we loved it (let's face it, sin is 'fun' to someone who is unregenerate .. or no one would choose to sin :preach:

).

However, this is not to say that our old self/old nature (which were are commanded to set aside daily, moment by moment, in fact, in favor of our new self/new nature .. Ephesians 4:22-24), will not rear its ugly head again after we are "in Christ", and help us to lose to a temptation, act against our new nature, and sin once more (though we will feel horrified and defeated whenever we do as true believers, so we confess our sins to the Lord and seek His forgiveness so that full fellowship with Him/the joy of our salvation, may be restored to us once more

).

As theologian/pastor A. W. Pink has rightly said in regard to this:

So there you have it, the way that Chapter 3 (of 1 John) is harmonized with Chapters 1-2.

A Christian can still fall into temptation and sin, but he/she will not do so as an ongoing/unrepentant lifestyle choice anymore (as if they were still reprobate). And when we do sin, it's different because we are grieved/contrite/horrified by it once we realize what we've done, and we immediately seek His forgiveness and cleansing from our sins and repent of them, just like He tells us to do.

In fact, if someone who claims/believes themselves a Christian, never leaves or quickly returns to leading the kind of sinful "lifestyle" that they led as an unbeliever, then their "claim" should be regarded as nothing more than that.

God bless you!

--David

St_Worm2 · May 2, 2021

Micaiah-Imla said:
Man is able to cease from sinning. Otherwise we are dealing with a God that is unkind and cruel for severely punishing a nation for doing the evil that they were incapable from abstaining from. No, they were capable of ceasing from their evil doing, but they ignored God (no different than today’s Once Saved Always Saved oppressors out there). The issue has always been with the OLD sins that were committed in the past. Before Christ no ones’ past sins were taken away, which is why the animal sacrifices had to be done every year:

"For the law having a shadow of good things to come, and not the very image of the things, can never with those sacrifices which they offered year by year continually make the comers thereunto perfect. For then would they not have ceased to be offered? because that the worshippers once purged should have had no more conscience of sins." (Hebrews 10:1-2)

Christ came to take away the sins of the believer so that he may be born again and sin more, because:

"Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin" (1 John 3:9)

Hello Micaiah-Imla, I finally replied to Psalm 27. Unfortunately, I don't have time to reply to your last post right now too, but I didn't want you to think that I had forgotten to.

I doubt that I'll be able to reply today, so I am planning on doing so on Monday (Dv).

God bless you!

--David

Psalm 27 · May 2, 2021

St_Worm2 said:
Hello Psalm 27, so is it your belief that the Apostle changed (or lost ) his mind between Chapters 1-2 and Chapter 3 Just kidding, of course, but we do need to figure out what he meant/what the Lord meant so that Chapter 3 can exist in perfect harmony with the previous two Chapters, not in contradiction to them.

the 1 John argument has often been used throughout history, as an excuse for the believer ‘to’ sin.
Chapter three nails it (so did Jesus) numbers 6:24-26

Psalm 27 · May 2, 2021

Mark Quayle said:
You say, "It can be done, sin can be overcome."

I think Spurgeon, et al, would agree with me then, that though this is at least theoretically possible, the truth is that it IS overcome by the same thing that produces our faith --the Spirit of God. Christ has already overcome. I'm not talking cryptic there, but simply. It is not a riddle. We look on this life (as we are naturally unable to do otherwise) but, concerning the Elect, God looks on the finished work. We are to live now according to that --looking to Christ, the author and finisher of our faith. Not looking to our self-assessed victories and failures to figure out where to go from here.

I’m talking simply too.
Sin can be overcome. We have a choice ‘to serve God, or serve the devil’. It’s a constant battle, but we can sin to lesser and lesser degrees, until we do have the victory. 1 Thessalonians 5:23-24.

The victory belongs to Jesus. Luke 4:18-19

Mark Quayle · May 2, 2021

Psalm 27 said:
I’m talking simply too.
Sin can be overcome. We have a choice ‘to serve God, or serve the devil’. It’s a constant battle, but we can sin to lesser and lesser degrees, until we do have the victory. 1 Thessalonians 5:23-24.

The victory belongs to Jesus. Luke 4:18-19

The Elect, regenerated, already have the victory, in Christ. There is nobody that 'gets there' before death. Even the apostle Paul.

Mark Quayle · May 2, 2021

St_Worm2 said:
I realize this idea is harmful to the presupposition of sinless perfection at justification, but that's ok, because what God is after, and what He has promised us, is "sanctification" (His mighty and ongoing work in us, from justification to the grave, to make us more and more like His Son .. e.g. Philippians 1:6), not "perfection", which we, His obedient and beloved children, are to continually "work out" alongside of Him (as He enables us to), with "fear and trembling" .. Philippians 2:12-13.

One protest I hear from the Arminian-leaning believers is the 'lack of practical motivation' of Calvinism. I suppose part of it is the idea of laziness that they suppose from OSAS, and part of it is the simple lack of understanding of what the love of God has done to us. They find it in themselves, (though not understanding it is the work of the Spirit of God, they suppose it is the heart's response and the mind's response out of gratefulness), but think the Calvinist doesn't have the same compelling.

The advantage of Calvinism is the confidence in the absolute rule of God over the individual Elect, that what God has determined from the beginning will indeed happen, but that it seldom looks quite like what the Arminian thinks he must figure out ("God's will for his life") and accomplish as a believer. In this, I have noticed that there is not a one who passes into glory who was perfect in obedience, and in fact, that there are some who I am sure are of the Elect, who died in a state of less [apparent] virtue than they had been possessed of some years earlier.

My point with all that is to say there is something magnificent that God is building --his Church, which is precisely designed, and the members are exactly what he determined to use in their specific places as their part of his dwelling place. They do NOT look alike, nor are they without character. It cannot be doubted that Christ will be delighted with EVERY detail, Every part, (every cell?) of the Bride.

Depth of sin

Well-Known Member

Half-ready for Anything.....

Simul Justus et Peccator

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Active Member

Active Member

Senior Veteran

Active Member

Monergist; and by reputation, Reformed Calvinist

Well-Known Member

Monergist; and by reputation, Reformed Calvinist

Active Member

Monergist; and by reputation, Reformed Calvinist

Simul Justus et Peccator

Simul Justus et Peccator

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Monergist; and by reputation, Reformed Calvinist

Monergist; and by reputation, Reformed Calvinist

Similar threads