Was the 70th Week of Daniel Fulfilled during the First Century?

keras said:

The Messiah came and was acknowledged by the people, on the Day Jesus rode into Jerusalem on a donkey.

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John the baptist (the prophesied forerunner of Jesus) announced Jesus in 26/27 AD saying (according to Church records):

......and then John baptized Jesus in the Jordan River.
You should read the rest of this particular part of the Messiah story. It's gripping.

If you'd rather watch someone give narration of this story....I personally think Andy Stanley does a great job here:

Gundy22 said:

No it isn't.

Many OT motifs are repeated in Revelation. A 42-month period - Zechariah's horses repeated as 4 horsemen of the Apocalypse - winged beings in Ezekiel albeit with different number of wings - 2 witnesses doing things which were already done by Elijah and Moses...

Revelation is FULL of allusions to OT happenings - these do not mean that Elijah and Moses never did their miracles in the past and that they await some endtime fulfillment. It could merely mean something SIMILAR might happen in end times.

Christian Gedge has good chart about time elements in Acts. 70 weeks are HISTORY

It's ok if there is a later 42 month period to come, or even 2 of them - that does not negate the fact that the 70th week of Daniel ended the same year Stephen was stoned.

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Daniel 9:27 And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.

This is the 70th week. and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease---this obviously occurs during the first half of it. I don't think anyone would dispute that. Yet, the midst of the week is obviously not the end of the week. Where then is the end of the week in that verse if not within this portion--- and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate?

Obviously, at the end of that is not meaning the same year Stephen was stoned. And yes, I realize none of you are claiming it is. That is beside the point. The point is, verse 27 is the 70th week. It only stands to reason that that verse informs us as what to expect at the end of this week, thus how we know it is finished. Any reason to think---even until the consummation---is not meaning at the end of something? What are we looking for the end of in verse 27? Is it not the 70th week?

There are DUAL/MULTIPLE fulfillments of prophecy - evident from "Behold a virgin shall conceieve" passage in Isaiah. A boy in Isaiah's time is born to an ALMAH - he is not the Messiah born to a PARTHENOS that we know as The Mighty God, the Everlasting Father, the Prince of Peace.

Abomination of Desolation was in Antiochus Epiphanes time - but Jesus spoke of one future to him - which church looked for and fled to Pella. What end time Abomination is coming? Dual fulfillmnets - multiple fulfillments...

Look for them - don't be obsessed with them - like Dispensationalist hooey about the 7 1st century churches being "The churches throughout history". No. Now come on.

7 actual churches in Asia in 1st century. Don't FLIP OUT and create "the church throughout history" - hogwash.

Douggg said:

Daniel's people are the Jews. And the holy city - Jerusalem. The 70 weeks are not determined on other descendants of Abraham.

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Daniels people are everyone who believes in Jesus and is faithful to God.
The six tenets of Daniel 9:24, apply to Christians, who ARE the descendants of Abraham, spiritually and probably physically as well.

You beliefs about the Jews, the apostate and Jesus rejecting people currently in part of the holy Land, are quite wrong and ignore the many prophesies that tell about the fate of Jewish Israel.

Gundy22 said:

It's ok if there is a later 42 month period to come, or even 2 of them - that does not negate the fact that the 70th week of Daniel ended the same year Stephen was stoned.

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70 weeks are determined on Daniel's people and Jerusalem until the stoning of Stephen?

keras said:

Your disagreement is based on faulty understanding.
The 'covenant' in Daniel 9:27, is not a Covenant, like what God made with Moses. It is a treaty, a fixed term agreement between two earthly parties.
That is clear from the verse and the poor translation of 'brith' as covenant, has led to much confusion.

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What is your basis for saying that it was poorly translated? The same Hebrew word translated as "covenant" in Daniel 9:27 is the word translated as covenant in passages like this:

Exodus 34:27 Then the Lord said to Moses, “Write down these words, for in accordance with these words I have made a covenant with you and with Israel.” 28 Moses was there with the Lord forty days and forty nights without eating bread or drinking water. And he wrote on the tablets the words of the covenant—the Ten Commandments.

Timtofly said:

The Olivet Discourse. Revelations. The ministry of the 144k. The final harvest. The wheat and the sheep, separated from the tares and the goats. All those parables of the kingdom.

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Do you want to try to be more specific? How does any of that explain a gap in Daniel's prophecy?

Also, I asked you about your claim that there will be a second coming earthly ministry that ends with the 7th trumpet and how you came up with that? Do you have any explanation?

If you place the church into the 490 weeks there has to be a gap. Otherwise the church is outside of the 490 weeks and not part of this:

"Upon thy people and upon thy holy city, to finish the transgression, and to make an end of sins, and to make reconciliation for iniquity, and to bring in everlasting righteousness, and to seal up the vision and prophecy, and to anoint the most Holy."

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What is your understanding of how that verse (Daniel 9:24) will be fulfilled?

I believe Jesus accomplished all of those things listed in that verse long ago.

For example, when it talks about making an end of sins, it's talking about this:

1 John 3:5 And ye know that he was manifested to take away our sins; and in him is no sin.

When it talks about making reconciliation for iniquity, it's talking about this:

Romans 5:9 Much more then, being now justified by his blood, we shall be saved from wrath through him. 10 For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life.

Jesus is the most Holy, so anointing the most Holy is talking about this:

Luke 4:18 The Spirit of the Lord is upon me, because he hath anointed me to preach the gospel to the poor; he hath sent me to heal the brokenhearted, to preach deliverance to the captives, and recovering of sight to the blind, to set at liberty them that are bruised,

Douggg said:

Daniel's people are the Jews. And the holy city - Jerusalem. The 70 weeks are not determined on other descendants of Abraham.

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Douggg,
You are understanding the Word of God literally when it is spiritual. Once we are 'in Christ" we all become Jews:

Rom 2:28-29 For he is not a Jew, which is one outwardly; neither is that circumcision, which is outward in the flesh: But he is a Jew, which is one inwardly; and circumcision is that of the heart, in the spirit, and not in the letter; whose praise is not of men, but of God.

Paul is explaining that a Jew is a person who is one "inwardly" (spiritually) and who has received the circumcision of the heart. The Jews who are only "outwardly" Jews and who have a physical circumcision are not Jews at all. For this reason, saved Gentiles are considered by God to be Jews and descendants of Abraham. It is based on faith, not works.

Remember, the spiritual happens within us and that is what is important to God. The outward or physical world is a reflection of the spiritual (what is within us). If we are spiritually clean, then the outside will likewise be clean.

Mat 23:26 Thou blind Pharisee, cleanse first that which is within the cup and platter, that the outside of them may be clean also.

Christ's work is spiritual (within us) and His teachings in scripture apply to us that way. Christ uses the physical to represent spiritual truths.

Look at this example:

Mat 26:52 Then said Jesus unto him, Put up again thy sword into his place: for all they that take the sword shall perish with the sword.

Does Christ really mean that if you use a sword to kill others, then you must likewise be killed with a sword? Literally, that is what He is saying. So if we are to understand it literally, then that statement can easily be proven to be false. There are countless examples of people who have used violence to kill others but then do not die from that same type of violence - it almost goes without saying. So is Christ mistaken or is His message something else?

Since His “words are spirit”, His message must be spiritually understood. Christ’s spiritual message is quite different from what He is literally saying.

In Matt 26:52, Christ is using a “symbol” or “type” to give us His spiritual message. Here Christ uses the symbol of a Sword. To understand what that symbol means, we must look at how it is used elsewhere in scripture.

Eph 6:17 And take the helmet of salvation, and the sword of the Spirit, which is the word of God:

Heb 4:12 For the word of God is quick, and powerful, and sharper than any two edged sword...

Rev 1:16 And he had in his right hand seven stars: and out of his mouth went a sharp two-edged sword...

From these examples, it is easy to understand that a Sword represents the Word of God. So Christ’s hidden spiritual point He is making in Mat 26:52 is that all who live (those being “born again”) by the Word of God, must perish (death of the carnal nature) by the Word of God.

Water baptism is another symbol which sends the same spiritual message as Matt 26:52. When an individual is baptized in water, the immersion represents the death of our carnal nature (Old Man). The ascension out of the water represents our new birth in Christ in the Kingdom of Heaven. This great work of salvation is accomplished by the Christ who is the Word of God (Sword).

Spiritual understanding of scripture is further explained and expanded by 1Cor 2:13, Isa 28: 10-12 and Psa 119:160.

1Cor 2:13 These things we also speak, not in words which man’s wisdom teaches but which the Holy Spirit teaches, comparing spiritual things with spiritual.

Isa 28: 10-12 For precept must be upon precept, precept upon precept; line upon line, line upon line; here a little, and there a little: 11 For with stammering lips and another tongue will he speak to this people. 12 But the word of the LORD was unto them precept upon precept, precept upon precept; line upon line, line upon line; here a little, and there a little; that they might go, and fall backward, and be broken, and snared, and taken.

When a believer cannot understand the Word of God, it will cause them to “fall backward”. So what does “to fall backward and be broken” actually mean? This is the same as to “fall away” (Heb 6:4-6) and it means to return to one’s own attempt to be acceptable to God through our own works. This is the sin that leads to death (1John 5:16).

Since God’s Truth is presented to us in bits and pieces, we must put them together to see the truth:

Psa 119:160 The sum of your word is truth, and every one of your righteous rules endures forever.

To correctly understand scripture, it must be understood spiritually. For this type of understanding to occur, we must first understand that the words used in scripture do not carry the same meaning as taught by man’s wisdom (1Cor 2:13). Christ’s words are spirit and we are told to understand their spiritual meaning by comparing them with the same spiritual words used elsewhere in scripture. We must compare spiritual with spiritual. We are to also keep in mind that “the sum of God’s Word is truth”. Trying to literally understand a single verse of scripture within its own context will only produce confusion. Have you ever wondered why there are so many different denominational churches in the world? This is one of the reasons why.

You may be asking yourself why God made His Word so difficult to understand. I can assure you that He did not do it by mistake. God is purposely concealing Himself from this world so that He can reveal Himself to each individual at a time of His choosing.

Matt 13:10-11 And the disciples came, and said unto him, Why speakest thou unto them in parables? He answered and said unto them, Because it is given unto you (the Elect) to know the mysteries of the kingdom of heaven, but to them (those not Chosen) it is not given.

In scripture, the knowledge of God (which is fully found in Christ) is symbolized by Treasure.

Prov 2:1-5 My son, if you receive my words and treasure up my commandments with you, making your ear attentive to wisdom and inclining your heart to understanding; yes, if you call out for insight and raise your voice for understanding, if you seek it like silver and search for it as for hidden treasures, then you will understand the fear of the Lord and find the knowledge of God.

Mat 13:44 Again, the kingdom of heaven is like unto treasure hid in a field; the which when a man hath found, he hideth, and for joy thereof goeth and selleth all that he hath, and buyeth that field.

For most people, God has not chosen to reveal Himself to them at this time. So for them, He remains “hidden” Treasure. However, that does not mean that He will forget them and forever remain hidden from their eyes. Scripture promises us that will not be the case.

1Tim 2:3-6 For this is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Saviour; 4 Who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth. 5 For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus; 6 Who gave himself a ransom for all, to be testified in due time.

1Cor 15: 22-23 For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive. 23 But every man in his own order: Christ the first fruits; afterward they that are Christ's at his coming.

During this present age, Christ is ONLY gathering in the First-fruits of His Harvest. The remaining harvest of mankind will come later in the final age that God established from the beginning of creation. Contrary to popular belief, Christ is NOT working to save all mankind during this present age. He is only appearing (revealing Himself) to those who have been chosen from the foundation of the world (Rev 13:8 & Eph 1:11). We are totally dependent upon Christ for our salvation, even the timing of it. We cannot “choose” ourselves to be one of His “chosen”. Christ alone is the One who calls us, chooses us and empowers us to remain faithful unto the end. It is all His work. To claim otherwise, only proves that one has “fallen away” and is attempting to be acceptable through works of their own works.

For those who have presently been given “eyes that can see” and “ears that can hear”, Christ is appearing to them and revealing Himself. They are finding great treasure!

The book of Revelation depicts this great treasure of God. This book is the great unveiling of Jesus Christ within an individual - it is salvation. But to keep Christ concealed from those not chosen to receive its message, the book was “signified” to the apostle John. In other words, the Truth was presented in spiritual symbols. It is in no way literal. It is not a book about end-time prophecy or future coming world events. There is no literal Lake of Fire or coming Antichrist who rules the world. And for that matter, there is not even a literal throne room in heaven or a heaven with streets of gold. These are all worldly symbols which represent spiritual truths.

Let me ask you this: If God wants to save mankind and wants us all to come to Christ and receive salvation so that we can avoid being cast into the fires of hell for all eternity, then WHY does God keep the meaning of His Word concealed? If mankind must go to Christ and make a "free will" decision to accept or reject Christ, it makes no sense for the Word of God to be explained in a "mystery" and be concealed. Doesn't God want us to know Him and receive salvation?

Here is the truth of the matter: The carnal nature of mankind hates the ways of God and will never seek God out. The only way mankind can be saved is for Christ to come to us. When He comes, He gives us the Holy Spirit and we then accept Him as "Lord". He does this without us asking Him to come and do it. Paul's Damascus Road experience is the pattern that Christ follows. Paul hated Christ and was on His way to Damascus to persecute Christians. But all that changed when Christ came to Paul and gave Him the Early Rain of the Spirit. But Christ, for His own reasons, decided that in this age, He was only going to save a few people whom He chose from the foundation of the world. It is a very small group. So for this reason, Christ keeps the true meaning of His Word concealed so that He can reveal it to only those He has chosen. For the chosen, Christ comes to them a second time (Latter Rain of the Spirit) and heals their spiritual blindness. It is only then that the believer can know and accept the truth of God and be saved. It is all His work to perform and He as stated that He will do His work within all mankind because He loves us all.

1 Tim 2:3-6 For this is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Saviour; Who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth. For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus; Who gave himself a ransom for all, to be testified in due time.

But for now, Christ is only coming to and saving His First Fruits of the harvest. The full harvest of the rest of mankind occurs in the final age. To accomplish this order of salvation, Christ is concealing Himself from the world and even from those who are only called out. Only those who are chosen by Christ receive their salvation now.

What I have stated above is what the Word of God teaches and is why End-time prophecy teaches on the spiritual pathway that leads to our salvation. The meaning of those End-time verses should be applied inwardly and not outwardly as is commonly believed.

Joe

The stoning of Stephen is sort of an emphatic statement of unbeleiving Jews rejecting the gospel.
Paul - Saul of Tarsus - not yet a believer - is there, holding people's coats as they stone Stephen. I think he was saved that same year on road to Damascus.

All of the THINGS that the 70 weeks were determined for - Christ achieved all of it.

Dan 9:24

Seventy weeks are determined upon thy people and upon thy holy city, to finish the transgression, and to make an end of sins, and to make reconciliation for iniquity, and to bring in everlasting righteousness, and to seal up the vision and prophecy, and to anoint the most Holy.

I hope that for each of us - Christ has finished the transgression (it is finished) and made an end to our sins; made reconciliation for iniquity, and brought in everlasting righteousness. Daniel's vision and prophecy is sealed up - John's Revelation is NOT sealed as Daniel's was. Christ has been anointed - from the time Mary Magdalene anointed Him from the alabaster jar. The Most Holy has been anointed!

Of course, Christ's victory will be made more emphatic when He comes again - but yet these things in Daniel 9:24 were in a very real sense FINISHED when He said "It is finished". We are already seated in the heavenly places, we are already a kingdom of priests, a chosen generation, a holy nation.

DavidPT said:

This is the 70th week. and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease---this obviously occurs during the first half of it. I don't think anyone would dispute that

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"In the midst of the week" = in the center of the seven years (which was fulfilled). The Cross historically is recognized as occurring in 30 AD. (3.5 years after John announced Jesus's public ministry).

So.....yes....quite a large number of people will dispute that the sacrifices were stopped early in the 7 years. Jesus, Himself, was the perfect Lamb - the reality that all the previous Passover lambs had symbolized.

26/27 AD Jesus baptized - anointed for His mission

+ 3.5 years (center point of 7) = 30 AD Cross

Modern Christian churches have definitely made a huge mess of the entire Jesus of Nazareth story.

It's disappointing.....but a person can find more accurate (and far less confusing) information on secular history sites like National Geographic.

mkgal1 said:

"In the midst of the week" = in the center of the seven years (which was fulfilled). The Cross historically is recognized as occurring in 30 AD. (3.5 years after John announced Jesus's public ministry).

So.....yes....quite a large number of people will dispute that the sacrifices were stopped early in the 7 years. Jesus, Himself, was the perfect Lamb - the reality that all the previous Passover lambs had symbolized.

26/27 AD Jesus baptized - anointed for His mission

+ 3.5 years (center point of 7) = 30 AD Cross

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It appears we are not entirely on the same page here, unfortunately. What I meant by that is this, that occurs during the first half. No one disputes that. What is in question though, who is the one fulfilling that? Is it Christ or someone else? Either way it still occurs within the first half of the 70th week, and that the midst of the week is not the end of the week, so where is the end of the week in that verse if not within the remainder of it after that part?

Why do some of you find it perfectly reasonable, concerning verses 25, 26, and 27, that if your interpretations are correct, we are only told what happens at the end of the first 7 weeks, what happens at the end of 62 weeks, but that we are never told what happens at the end of the final week, but are only told what happens up until the middle of it?

DavidPT said:

It appears we are not entirely on the same page here, unfortunately. What I meant by that is this, that occurs during the first half. No one disputes that. What is in question though, who is the one fulfilling that? Is it Christ or someone else? Either way it still occurs within the first half of the 70th week, and that the midst of the week is not the end of the week

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You seem to have missed my point.

"Midst of the week " is like saying "surrounded by the week". It's the middle of the week. If you say you were caught up in the "midst of the chaos" wouldn't that also mean "in the middle of the chaos"?

With this being almost 2000 years behind us, we can say it WAS in the middle of the week that the LAST (and only perfect) sacrifice was accepted by God in 30 AD. Thus stopping any other sacrifices from being accepted by God.

......and many dispute the idea that the sacrifices stopped prior to 30 AD (prior to the middle of the 7 year period). I'm one of those people.

DavidPT said:

thus how we know it is finished.

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We know the 70th week was finished when 490 had passed. The clock began in 457 BC (with the edict to rebuild Jerusalem) + 490 years (no year "zero") = 34 AD.

Futurism has obfuscated the Truth with this "gap" fiction and deflection away from Jesus, the Prince, and an obsession with some unknown antichrist.

Douggg said:

The 70 weeks are not determined on other descendants of Abraham.

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What about Jesus?

Are you dismissing Him?

DavidPT said:

The point is, verse 27 is the 70th week. It only stands to reason that that verse informs us as what to expect at the end of this week, thus how we know it is finished. Any reason to think---even until the consummation---is not meaning at the end of something? What are we looking for the end of in verse 27? Is it not the 70th week?

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The last half of verse 27 is not part of the actual 70th week; it is the aftermath. IOW the prophet gives a broad picture of what was going to happen from the emperor Artaxerxes announcement down to Messiah and onward to the destruction of the temple 40 years later.

DavidPT said:

the midst of the week is not the end of the week, so where is the end of the week in that verse if not within the remainder of it after that part?

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The midst of the 70th week was Passover, AD 30, and the actual end of the week was AD34. The event that marks off the endpoint was the gospel going to the Gentiles as promised. (Acts 10)

mkgal1 said:

What about Jesus?

Are you dismissing Him?

Matthew 1:1
1This is the record of the genealogy of Jesus Christ, the son of David, the son of Abraham:​

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Abraham, Issac, Jacob is the physical linage of the Jews. Jesus was descended from David as well.

Gundy22 said:

I hope that for each of us - Christ has finished the transgression (it is finished) and made an end to our sins; made reconciliation for iniquity, and brought in everlasting righteousness. Daniel's vision and prophecy is sealed up - John's Revelation is NOT sealed as Daniel's was. Christ has been anointed - from the time Mary Magdalene anointed Him from the alabaster jar. The Most Holy has been anointed!

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The 70 weeks are determined upon Daniel's people and Jerusalem. Are Daniel's people the Jews, Israel, in a state of having been saved? No.

Is Jerusalem in a state of everlasting righteousness? No.

Have the Jews repented of their transgression of having rejected Jesus ? No.

The 70 weeks are not complete.

Gog/Magog of Ezekiel 38-39 has not taken place, nor the 7 years that follow it, nor Armageddon at the end of the 7 years, nor Jesus having returned to this earth once transgression they made against Jesus repented of.

21 And I will set my glory among the heathen, and all the heathen shall see my judgment that I have executed, and my hand that I have laid upon them.

22 So the house of Israel shall know that I am the LORD their God from that day and forward.

23 And the heathen shall know that the house of Israel went into captivity for their iniquity: because they trespassed against me, therefore hid I my face from them, and gave them into the hand of their enemies: so fell they all by the sword.

24 According to their uncleanness and according to their transgressions have I done unto them, and hid my face from them.

25 Therefore thus saith the Lord GOD; Now will I bring again the captivity of Jacob, and have mercy upon the whole house of Israel, and will be jealous for my holy name;

26 After that they have borne their shame, and all their trespasses whereby they have trespassed against me, when they dwelt safely in their land, and none made them afraid.

27 When I have brought them again from the people, and gathered them out of their enemies' lands, and am sanctified in them in the sight of many nations;

FaithWillDo said:

Douggg,
You are understanding the Word of God literally when it is spiritual. Once we are 'in Christ" we all become Jews:

Rom 2:28-29 For he is not a Jew, which is one outwardly; neither is that circumcision, which is outward in the flesh: But he is a Jew, which is one inwardly; and circumcision is that of the heart, in the spirit, and not in the letter; whose praise is not of men, but of God.

Paul is explaining that a Jew is a person who is one "inwardly" (spiritually) and who has received the circumcision of the heart. The Jews who are only "outwardly" Jews and who have a physical circumcision are not Jews at all. For this reason, saved Gentiles are considered by God to be Jews and descendants of Abraham. It is based on faith, not works.

Remember, the spiritual happens within us and that is what is important to God. The outward or physical world is a reflection of the spiritual (what is within us). If we are spiritually clean, then the outside will likewise be clean.

Mat 23:26 Thou blind Pharisee, cleanse first that which is within the cup and platter, that the outside of them may be clean also.

Christ's work is spiritual (within us) and His teachings in scripture apply to us that way. Christ uses the physical to represent spiritual truths.

Look at this example:

Mat 26:52 Then said Jesus unto him, Put up again thy sword into his place: for all they that take the sword shall perish with the sword.

Does Christ really mean that if you use a sword to kill others, then you must likewise be killed with a sword? Literally, that is what He is saying. So if we are to understand it literally, then that statement can easily be proven to be false. There are countless examples of people who have used violence to kill others but then do not die from that same type of violence - it almost goes without saying. So is Christ mistaken or is His message something else?

Since His “words are spirit”, His message must be spiritually understood. Christ’s spiritual message is quite different from what He is literally saying.

In Matt 26:52, Christ is using a “symbol” or “type” to give us His spiritual message. Here Christ uses the symbol of a Sword. To understand what that symbol means, we must look at how it is used elsewhere in scripture.

Eph 6:17 And take the helmet of salvation, and the sword of the Spirit, which is the word of God:

Heb 4:12 For the word of God is quick, and powerful, and sharper than any two edged sword...

Rev 1:16 And he had in his right hand seven stars: and out of his mouth went a sharp two-edged sword...

From these examples, it is easy to understand that a Sword represents the Word of God. So Christ’s hidden spiritual point He is making in Mat 26:52 is that all who live (those being “born again”) by the Word of God, must perish (death of the carnal nature) by the Word of God.

Water baptism is another symbol which sends the same spiritual message as Matt 26:52. When an individual is baptized in water, the immersion represents the death of our carnal nature (Old Man). The ascension out of the water represents our new birth in Christ in the Kingdom of Heaven. This great work of salvation is accomplished by the Christ who is the Word of God (Sword).

Spiritual understanding of scripture is further explained and expanded by 1Cor 2:13, Isa 28: 10-12 and Psa 119:160.

1Cor 2:13 These things we also speak, not in words which man’s wisdom teaches but which the Holy Spirit teaches, comparing spiritual things with spiritual.

Isa 28: 10-12 For precept must be upon precept, precept upon precept; line upon line, line upon line; here a little, and there a little: 11 For with stammering lips and another tongue will he speak to this people. 12 But the word of the LORD was unto them precept upon precept, precept upon precept; line upon line, line upon line; here a little, and there a little; that they might go, and fall backward, and be broken, and snared, and taken.

When a believer cannot understand the Word of God, it will cause them to “fall backward”. So what does “to fall backward and be broken” actually mean? This is the same as to “fall away” (Heb 6:4-6) and it means to return to one’s own attempt to be acceptable to God through our own works. This is the sin that leads to death (1John 5:16).

Since God’s Truth is presented to us in bits and pieces, we must put them together to see the truth:

Psa 119:160 The sum of your word is truth, and every one of your righteous rules endures forever.

To correctly understand scripture, it must be understood spiritually. For this type of understanding to occur, we must first understand that the words used in scripture do not carry the same meaning as taught by man’s wisdom (1Cor 2:13). Christ’s words are spirit and we are told to understand their spiritual meaning by comparing them with the same spiritual words used elsewhere in scripture. We must compare spiritual with spiritual. We are to also keep in mind that “the sum of God’s Word is truth”. Trying to literally understand a single verse of scripture within its own context will only produce confusion. Have you ever wondered why there are so many different denominational churches in the world? This is one of the reasons why.

You may be asking yourself why God made His Word so difficult to understand. I can assure you that He did not do it by mistake. God is purposely concealing Himself from this world so that He can reveal Himself to each individual at a time of His choosing.

Matt 13:10-11 And the disciples came, and said unto him, Why speakest thou unto them in parables? He answered and said unto them, Because it is given unto you (the Elect) to know the mysteries of the kingdom of heaven, but to them (those not Chosen) it is not given.

In scripture, the knowledge of God (which is fully found in Christ) is symbolized by Treasure.

Prov 2:1-5 My son, if you receive my words and treasure up my commandments with you, making your ear attentive to wisdom and inclining your heart to understanding; yes, if you call out for insight and raise your voice for understanding, if you seek it like silver and search for it as for hidden treasures, then you will understand the fear of the Lord and find the knowledge of God.

Mat 13:44 Again, the kingdom of heaven is like unto treasure hid in a field; the which when a man hath found, he hideth, and for joy thereof goeth and selleth all that he hath, and buyeth that field.

For most people, God has not chosen to reveal Himself to them at this time. So for them, He remains “hidden” Treasure. However, that does not mean that He will forget them and forever remain hidden from their eyes. Scripture promises us that will not be the case.

1Tim 2:3-6 For this is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Saviour; 4 Who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth. 5 For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus; 6 Who gave himself a ransom for all, to be testified in due time.

1Cor 15: 22-23 For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive. 23 But every man in his own order: Christ the first fruits; afterward they that are Christ's at his coming.

During this present age, Christ is ONLY gathering in the First-fruits of His Harvest. The remaining harvest of mankind will come later in the final age that God established from the beginning of creation. Contrary to popular belief, Christ is NOT working to save all mankind during this present age. He is only appearing (revealing Himself) to those who have been chosen from the foundation of the world (Rev 13:8 & Eph 1:11). We are totally dependent upon Christ for our salvation, even the timing of it. We cannot “choose” ourselves to be one of His “chosen”. Christ alone is the One who calls us, chooses us and empowers us to remain faithful unto the end. It is all His work. To claim otherwise, only proves that one has “fallen away” and is attempting to be acceptable through works of their own works.

For those who have presently been given “eyes that can see” and “ears that can hear”, Christ is appearing to them and revealing Himself. They are finding great treasure!

The book of Revelation depicts this great treasure of God. This book is the great unveiling of Jesus Christ within an individual - it is salvation. But to keep Christ concealed from those not chosen to receive its message, the book was “signified” to the apostle John. In other words, the Truth was presented in spiritual symbols. It is in no way literal. It is not a book about end-time prophecy or future coming world events. There is no literal Lake of Fire or coming Antichrist who rules the world. And for that matter, there is not even a literal throne room in heaven or a heaven with streets of gold. These are all worldly symbols which represent spiritual truths.

Let me ask you this: If God wants to save mankind and wants us all to come to Christ and receive salvation so that we can avoid being cast into the fires of hell for all eternity, then WHY does God keep the meaning of His Word concealed? If mankind must go to Christ and make a "free will" decision to accept or reject Christ, it makes no sense for the Word of God to be explained in a "mystery" and be concealed. Doesn't God want us to know Him and receive salvation?

Here is the truth of the matter: The carnal nature of mankind hates the ways of God and will never seek God out. The only way mankind can be saved is for Christ to come to us. When He comes, He gives us the Holy Spirit and we then accept Him as "Lord". He does this without us asking Him to come and do it. Paul's Damascus Road experience is the pattern that Christ follows. Paul hated Christ and was on His way to Damascus to persecute Christians. But all that changed when Christ came to Paul and gave Him the Early Rain of the Spirit. But Christ, for His own reasons, decided that in this age, He was only going to save a few people whom He chose from the foundation of the world. It is a very small group. So for this reason, Christ keeps the true meaning of His Word concealed so that He can reveal it to only those He has chosen. For the chosen, Christ comes to them a second time (Latter Rain of the Spirit) and heals their spiritual blindness. It is only then that the believer can know and accept the truth of God and be saved. It is all His work to perform and He as stated that He will do His work within all mankind because He loves us all.

1 Tim 2:3-6 For this is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Saviour; Who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth. For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus; Who gave himself a ransom for all, to be testified in due time.

But for now, Christ is only coming to and saving His First Fruits of the harvest. The full harvest of the rest of mankind occurs in the final age. To accomplish this order of salvation, Christ is concealing Himself from the world and even from those who are only called out. Only those who are chosen by Christ receive their salvation now.

What I have stated above is what the Word of God teaches and is why End-time prophecy teaches on the spiritual pathway that leads to our salvation. The meaning of those End-time verses should be applied inwardly and not outwardly as is commonly believed.

Joe

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Joe, you are on the wrong topic for this forum. There is a Soteriology forum that deals with salvation.

Salvation (Soteriology)

mkgal1 said:

We know the 70th week was finished when 490 had passed. The clock began in 457 BC (with the edict to rebuild Jerusalem) + 490 years (no year "zero") = 34 AD.

Futurism has obfuscated the Truth with this "gap" fiction and deflection away from Jesus, the Prince, and an obsession with some unknown antichrist.

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The issue is when will the Jews and Jerusalem embrace Jesus and the gospel of salvation, that the 490 years become complete.