With Slow Progress on Federal Level, Police Reform Remains Patchwork Across U.S.

GreatLakes4Ever

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That's nothing! There are over 130 million more people in Mexico who don't have representation in the Senate and voting representation in the House.

How many of those 130 million are American citizens? How many are subject to United States taxes? How many of them are required to sign up for selective service when they turn 18?
 
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Aldebaran

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How many of those 130 million are American citizens? How many are subject to United States taxes? How many of them are required to sign up for selective service when they turn 18?

How many of them vote in our elections when they happen to be on our side of the border?
 
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GreatLakes4Ever

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How many of them vote in our elections when they happen to be on our side of the border?

Zero, as far as I know. I fail to see how that has anything to do with Republicans actively working to continue disenfranchisement of the American citizens of the District of Columbia and Puerto Rico. From where I’m sitting it appears you are desperate to talk about anything else because the position the Right has taken is an ugly one that they would rather not discuss. If I’m wrong, prove it by actually discussing why the American citizens in the District of Columbia and Puerto Rico shouldn’t receive the same representation in the federal government that you and I enjoy.
 
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Aldebaran

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Zero, as far as I know. I fail to see how that has anything to do with Republicans actively working to continue disenfranchisement of the American citizens of the District of Columbia and Puerto Rico. From where I’m sitting it appears you are desperate to talk about anything else because the position the Right has taken is an ugly one that they would rather not discuss.

If people don't like living in DC, they can always move to one of the 50 states. Why is that so difficult? It seems that people want what they don't have even though they choose to live in places that don't have what they want. That's the trend lately.
It's obvious that the only reason the dems are pushing this issue is to grab more power for themselves and to pack the SCOTUS to make sure they never lose that power. That's been obvious from the time they first proposed both statehood for DC and packing the court.
 
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GreatLakes4Ever

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If people don't like living in DC, they can always move to one of the 50 states. Why is that so difficult? It seems that people want what they don't have even though they choose to live in places that don't have what they want. That's the trend lately.
It's obvious that the only reason the dems are pushing this issue is to grab more power for themselves and to pack the SCOTUS to make sure they never lose that power. That's been obvious from the time they first proposed both statehood for DC and packing the court.

If you don’t like the direction Biden is taking America, you can just leave. Same attitude.

There’s been official movements to declare D.C. a state since 1980 and more than a dozen bills to do that since then. This isn’t a fly by night idea. It’s been pushed for a long time including by the Republican Party of the District of Columbia.
 
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Ana the Ist

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We do need to end the filibuster.

I define posturing as the "thoughts and prayers" many Republicans recite as they wait on line ar the sporting goods store to buy more ammo.

We tried to reform the police by letting the states do what they wanted. Let's call that posture turning your back.

It's time for action.

I hate the saying "it's time for action" when there's no plan.

The left has proposed a bunch of police reforms.

They haven't shown that they will actually help anything.
 
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Ana the Ist

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Zero, as far as I know. I fail to see how that has anything to do with Republicans actively working to continue disenfranchisement of the American citizens of the District of Columbia and Puerto Rico. From where I’m sitting it appears you are desperate to talk about anything else because the position the Right has taken is an ugly one that they would rather not discuss. If I’m wrong, prove it by actually discussing why the American citizens in the District of Columbia and Puerto Rico shouldn’t receive the same representation in the federal government that you and I enjoy.

One is a district....the other is a territory.

Since the district houses the actual legislature....there's a conflict of interest in letting it join that legislature.

PR is a territory. It doesn't have to be. They joined voluntarily if I remember correctly....they can leave if they want more autonomy.
 
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GreatLakes4Ever

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One is a district....the other is a territory.

Since the district houses the actual legislature....there's a conflict of interest in letting it join that legislature.

PR is a territory. It doesn't have to be. They joined voluntarily if I remember correctly....they can leave if they want more autonomy.

HR 51 shrinks the district down to the White House, Capitol, Supreme Court building, the Mall, and a few other federal buildings. The rest will be the new state. Conflict over.

Puerto Rico should have a binding vote on what they want. Independence, statehood, or status quo and then that should be done by the United States no questions asked.
 
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Ana the Ist

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HR 51 shrinks the district down to the White House, Capitol, Supreme Court building, the Mall, and a few other federal buildings. The rest will be the new state. Conflict over.

Let's say I don't want you to vote for a bill and I'm a DC rep or Senator.

So I tack on some pork that funds a freeway being built next to your DC home....ensuring sleepless nights and endless traffic problems during your term.

Puerto Rico should have a binding vote on what they want. Independence, statehood, or status quo and then that should be done by the United States no questions asked.

Why?

Why would 330 million people not have a say in their own nation's size?
 
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GreatLakes4Ever

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Let's say I don't want you to vote for a bill and I'm a DC rep or Senator.

So I tack on some pork that funds a freeway being built next to your DC home....ensuring sleepless nights and endless traffic problems during your term.

I’d like to see you use that excuse to the face of a citizen of Washington as to why they don’t deserve representation in the Senate and voting representation in the House. I’m going to bet they will be less than convinced.

Why?

Why would 330 million people not have a say in their own nation's size?

Puerto Rico is already part of our country. If they want statehood they should be given it. I include the U.S. Virgin Islands, Guam, America Samoa, and North Marine Island in that. These are already part of our country. It is an injustice not giving them full representation in our government.
 
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GreatLakes4Ever

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Is this a real reply?

Yes. You have a stupid reason for validating the disenfranchisement of 700,000 Americans. How about we take away your state’s representation in Congress because their representatives MIGHT do something shady with their power? I think it is fair based on your reasoning for why the District of Columbia shouldn’t get full representation.

It's a territory.

And they should be allowed full statehood or full independence. They shouldn’t be forced to be second class citizens in this country.
 
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Ana the Ist

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Yes. You have a stupid reason

The fact that those seats can be leveraged against all others is not a stupid position.

You want to give them national representation? Fine. Make it so they have legal influence on DC....whatsoever. They aren't even allowed to confer with the mayor.

Then there's no conflict of interest.


And they should be allowed full statehood or full independence.

Last I checked full independence was entirely within their grasp. Statehood involves the other 330 million people in that equation though....their say matters.
 
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GreatLakes4Ever

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The fact that those seats can be leveraged against all others is not a stupid position.

You want to give them national representation? Fine. Make it so they have legal influence on DC....whatsoever. They aren't even allowed to confer with the mayor.

Then there's no conflict of interest.

The Constitutionally required capital district would be legally separate from the new state. The head of the new state would have as limited control over the capital district as any other governor in the country. The capital district would be under the purview of some new federal entity or maybe Congress itself.

Last I checked full independence was entirely within their grasp. Statehood involves the other 330 million people in that equation though....their say matters.

Then we should send them to independence rather than hold onto them as our colonial property. It’s wrong to refuse representation for all Americans.[/QUOTE]
 
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Aldebaran

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Then we should send them to independence rather than hold onto them as our colonial property. It’s wrong to refuse representation for all Americans.

It's also wrong to gain power by standing on the backs of the citizens of U.S. territories. They're not there to be political pawns.
 
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Ana the Ist

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The Constitutionally required capital district would be legally separate from the new state. The head of the new state would have as limited control over the capital district as any other governor in the country. The capital district would be under the purview of some new federal entity or maybe Congress itself.

That gives the new state considerable power other states don't have.

Then we should send them to independence rather than hold onto them as our colonial property.

It's an option if they want it.
 
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SimplyMe

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Let's say I don't want you to vote for a bill and I'm a DC rep or Senator.

So I tack on some pork that funds a freeway being built next to your DC home....ensuring sleepless nights and endless traffic problems during your term.



Why?

Why would 330 million people not have a say in their own nation's size?

Umm... a DC Senator will have 50 votes all by himself, to be able to ram such a thing through? A DC Congressman will have 100-200 votes, so he can ram things through without needing the support of other Congressmen?

I'm sorry, the scenario you have is far more likely now than if DC were to become a state. The Senate and Congress do not "build," much less "plan," roads. Instead, that is done at the state and local level -- with the federal government providing some funding for Interstate and US Highways. It is actually while DC is not a state that Congress can control road building in the district.

Your "example" for this power that a DC Representative or Senator would have is ludicrous.
 
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Pommer

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It's also wrong to gain power by standing on the backs of the citizens of U.S. territories. They're not there to be political pawns.
We’re all political pawns, Alde, ol’ chap!
But on the whole, I’d bet they’d love to be full Citizens of the Nation who “owns” their native soil, (somehow).
 
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